The Apollo One Astronauts

[desertangel]

WOW... there's only been a few things on this site that have gotten to me and that cockpit recording was definitely one of them.

[JimC]

That was chilling.

Indeed.

[Alanwench]

Hey, I don't know how to read Asian!

Or French for that matter; what the heck are they saying?

I took it over to Google translate and came up with this:


The Scuba Gus Grissom's is the one that had the most damage of the three. It was destroyed at 70% according to NASA. The fire started on the left just below his left leg and this part was exposed longer. The front was completely destroyed, you can see the rear zip. The visor is deformed and melted and coated with soot. Even if the door had been opened quickly, the astronauts would have suffered serious injuries. Survival was not possible in this place until the opening of the hatch.

Since I am learning ICD-10-CM coding and other Health Information Management stuff, it will take some time to do the complete translation. Mainly I have to locate my French textbooks. The main points of the findings are that all three men died from inhaling toxic fumes/smoke (official cause of death) with thermal burns ranging from First to Third degree.All of the astronauts had soot in their tracheas, pulmonary edema and diffusion hemorrhage.

[TaupinJohn]

I'd never heard that recording before. Kind of stunned.

[desertangel]

I remember this on the news also. I grew up in an area where there were many aerospace manufacturing companies. Many friends and neighbors were employed in the industry. Space launches were mandatory attendance for watching on the TV. My first scrapbook was Apollo 13, and that scrapbook ended up a lot thicker than I'd ever dreamed. I will also never forget the Challenger tragedy. These moments of pride that turn to tragedy and horror in an instant seem to be the most emotionally provoking and long lasting. Whew!

[neilmpenny]

[Gabby]

WOW... there's only been a few things on this site that have gotten to me and that cockpit recording was definitely one of them.

the scream right at the end was heartbreaking

[Hidium]

How horrifying. The only consolation is that they developed better safety methods, such as using Halon Gas to prevent something like that from happening again. The Astronauts were extremely brave men, willing to advance the space program to the point of losing their lives. I know they would have gone on to do amazing things with their lives. It's just so sad for their families and for forward thinking people the world over. Imagine space flight, completely alone in the vacuum of space with a thin barrier keeping you safe inside your ship. They were all heroes.

[Miho]

Do you have a link from where this image was sourced from? My understanding is that all images are supressed.

I know someone at NASA and I think they may be interested as to how this image got out, if it is indeed genuine.

Btw, they all died from smoke inhillation, not from burns received in the fire.

Neil http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...00&fr2=piv-web

[Seagorath]

That was horrific. I'm stunned.

Thanks for sharing.

[Little Chief]

I honestly don't know if I can bring myself to listen to that recording. There's a big difference between looking pictures of the charred suits and listening to them burn to death. Anyone wanna provide a transcript for us chickens?

[Gabby]

I honestly don't know if I can bring myself to listen to that recording. There's a big difference between looking pictures of the charred suits and listening to them burn to death. Anyone wanna provide a transcript for us chickens?

it's mostly all dead air or normal "5,4,3,2,1" each of them checking in on their mics. There's some conversation about "how are we gonna get to the moon if we cant even communicate between three buildings" snark because of some communication/mic problems. then one of them says "hey we have a fire" and then a comment or two more about the fire and then the last thing you hear is a comment about the fire spreading and trailing into a scream and it goes quiet.

[ChicagoBorn]

There is a big difference from dying from smoke inhalation and being violently burned while dying from smoke inhalation. Rest in peace heroes.

[Little Chief]

I'll put my big girl undies on and have a listen in the morning. I don't think it's the type of thing to listen to before trying to sleep, hahaha.

[Buttercup]

I have read in a few different sources that Grissom had been pretty critical about the quality of the capsule. Gus had picked a lemon off his lemon tree and told his wife that he was going to hang it off the capsule. Apparently, he did.

[Jrwzeigle]

If any of y'all have the chance to visit the Kennedy Space Center in Titusville, please take the time to take one of their tours called the Then & Now tour. http://www.kennedyspacecentertours.n...l&offerId=5824

It gives you the chance to explore the Apollo 1 launchpad.... they have memorial benches there and a nice collage of pictures. It is a cool place to see. Very serene. And a little eerie.

[desertangel]

I honestly don't know if I can bring myself to listen to that recording. There's a big difference between looking pictures of the charred suits and listening to them burn to death. Anyone wanna provide a transcript for us chickens?

.... it was the scream that got me and the panic in the voice with the word "fire" - shudder to the bone, man!

[Michaela]

Wow. I had no idea this recording would spark so much interest. It was a simple google search to find it. For anyone that is afraid to listen to it, you can always mute the sound (the video has captions) and decide later if you want to hear it. Honestly, I have seen much worse on FAD than this recording.

If I ever get to Florida, I would love to tour the KSC as recommended.

[JimC]

.... it was the scream that got me and the panic in the voice with the word "fire" - shudder to the bone, man!

Yeah - "We're burning up in here!"; kind of sticks with you.

Pure oxygen in the environment didn't facilitate rescue; fire really likes oxygen and there was plenty of both; sadly.

RIP, guys.

[SomeChick]

Great interview about this tragedy with other astronauts on Fresh Air on NPR right now. Check their website for more info if interested.

[Little Chief]

Not as bad as I was expecting, but still got goosebumps.

[JimC]

There is a big difference from dying from smoke inhalation and being violently burned while dying from smoke inhalation. Rest in peace heroes.

I'm not sure how to rationalize either scenario as a "preferred" method of death; they both have to majorly suck.

I tend to think that the more stimuli assaulting your senses the sooner they will be over whelmed and followed by numbness and release.

I don't know; I hope none of us ever find out.

[ChicagoBorn]

I'm not sure how to rationalize either scenario as a "preferred" method of death; they both have to majorly suck.

I tend to think that the more stimuli assaulting your senses the sooner they will be over whelmed and followed by numbness and release.

I don't know; I hope none of us ever find out.

I agree, they both suck. The media will frequently use the smoke inhalation death as though it were less awful.....and it's not.

[Noelle1966]

I grew up right next to the Space Center and I still live here at this time. I heard that the pad that the astronauts were killed on is haunted, but I really don't know. I did go on a tour one time and we stopped at that area. I had never seen the spacesuit or heard the transmission until this thread. They are both extremely haunting. I had always read that Gus Grissom did not have a lot of faith in this particular spaceship. According to his wife, he thought of it as a "lemon."

If you ever have a chance to visit the Space Coast, do visit the Kennedy Space Center. There is so much history. Also, look for one of the "space trees" in the Rocket Garden.

[neilmpenny]

I grew up right next to the Space Center and I still live here at this time. I heard that the pad that the astronauts were killed on is haunted, but I really don't know. I did go on a tour one time and we stopped at that area. I had never seen the spacesuit or heard the transmission until this thread. They are both extremely haunting. I had always read that Gus Grissom did not have a lot of faith in this particular spaceship. According to his wife, he thought of it as a "lemon."

If you ever have a chance to visit the Space Coast, do visit the Kennedy Space Center. There is so much history. Also, look for one of the "space trees" in the Rocket Garden.

On January 22, 1967, Grissom made a brief stop at home before returning to the Cape. A citrus tree grew in their backyard with lemons on it as big as grapefruits. Gus yanked the largest lemon he could find off of the tree. Betty had no idea what he was up to and asked what he planned to do with the lemon. " 'I'm going to hang it on that spacecraft,' Gus said grimly and kissed her goodbye." Betty knew that Gus would be unable to return home before the crew conducted the plugs out test on January 27, 1967. What she did not know was that January 22 would be "the last time he was here at the house". [1]

Eventually, the first Apollo commander hung a lemon on the trainer. [2]

Source(s):

[1] http://history.nasa.gov/Apollo204/zorn/g…
[2] http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Histor…

[Michaela]

My local paper ran this photo slideshow. Includes Apollo 1 and other astronauts that have died. http://www.dailypress.com/news/photo...2.photogallery

[reving19]

The audio link goes to LiveLeak but it says:

This item has been deleted because of a copyright violation

Is this recording available anywhere else?

[Michaela]

The audio link goes to LiveLeak but it says:

This item has been deleted because of a copyright violation

Is this recording available anywhere else?

You're right. I just checked out the link and now it's unavailable. Of course I am sure it's out there "somewhere"...just a matter of finding it. Thanks for letting us know though. I wonder who has the copyright?

[neilmpenny]

My local paper ran this photo slideshow. Includes Apollo 1 and other astronauts that have died. http://www.dailypress.com/news/photo...2.photogallery

I think they are being a little liberal with the term 'Astronaut'. For instance, the height to officially reach space is 50 miles. If you haven't crossed that threshold, you don't qualify. So any first timers in the Challenger disaster didn't qualify. Also, civilians do not get astronaut wings, you have to be in the military. Yet Neil Armstrong travelled above 50 miles several times when he was a pilot in the X-15, let alone Gemini and Apollo. They may have relaxed that requirement, though what happens when Richard Branson starts taking civilians up in his commercial service? If the Challenger first timers are recognised as astronauts, then shouldn't Elliot See, Charles Basset etc who died in training and never went up?

Not having a go at you Michaela. Just pointing out the hypocrasy in the article.

You're right. I just checked out the link and now it's unavailable. Of course I am sure it's out there "somewhere"...just a matter of finding it. Thanks for letting us know though. I wonder who has the copyright?

If you look around hard enough you will probably find the recording. Or, you can go to You Tube, I am sure there is audio on one of the doco's there.

[Hidium]

I think they are being a little liberal with the term 'Astronaut'. For instance, the height to officially reach space is 50 miles. If you haven't crossed that threshold, you don't qualify. So any first timers in the Challenger disaster didn't qualify. Also, civilians do not get astronaut wings, you have to be in the military. Yet Neil Armstrong travelled above 50 miles several times when he was a pilot in the X-15, let alone Gemini and Apollo. They may have relaxed that requirement, though what happens when Richard Branson starts taking civilians up in his commercial service? If the Challenger first timers are recognised as astronauts, then shouldn't Elliot See, Charles Basset etc who died in training and never went up?
.

I think with the Challenger, they had the full astronaut training, and had every intention of going to space, if not for the O ring. Weren't a couple of them seasoned astronauts? The guy from Israel for example?

[neilmpenny]

I think with the Challenger, they had the full astronaut training, and had every intention of going to space, if not for the O ring. Weren't a couple of them seasoned astronauts? The guy from Israel for example?

I think you may be right. I found this definition at Wiki:

NASA applies the term astronaut to any crew member aboard NASA spacecraft bound for Earth orbit or beyond. NASA also uses the term as a title for those selected to join its Astronaut Corps.^[16] The European Space Agency similarly uses the term astronaut for members of its Astronaut Corps.

Clearly I was mistaken.

[JimC]

My local paper ran this photo slideshow. Includes Apollo 1 and other astronauts that have died. http://www.dailypress.com/news/photo...2.photogallery

Great link, thanks.

[JimC]

I think with the Challenger, they had the full astronaut training, and had every intention of going to space, if not for the O ring. Weren't a couple of them seasoned astronauts? The guy from Israel for example?

I watched a doco made about the Challenger before the accident (shortly after the accident) at a Planetarium here. They were interviewing people involved with the program and eventually interviewed a guy who had written a song about the lofty ideals and hopes for the program. He was your typical redneck (I am one by birth so I know); his blue NASA jump suit was unzipped until about half way down his chest; he had a couple of gold chains on and had greasy looking hair. As he sang his song my buddy leaned over and said, "He works in the O Ring Department."

[Poo Bah MCGee]

Gus's son, Scott and I corresponded for awhile. He is convinced the crew was murdered to slow down the pace of the program. That is simply not the case. He claims to have handled and photographed a switch wired to short out. In fact, the switch is wired to light a panel light when activated. The men died of shoddy wiring in a 16p.s.i. pure oxygen environment. In that atmosphere, almost anything will burn. There was a foam rubber pillow under the men, soaked in pure oxygen, for God's sake!

The actual fire was of very short duration, but of course when you're in it, it lasts forever. Temperatures reached about 2000 degrees for a short time. The gases expanded and the hull ruptured. Mind you, this pressure hull was design to remain intact in space, so that was some terrible gas pressure. As for burning of the astronauts, the suits were terribly charred and burned. Grissom was burned the worst of the three astronauts, Chaffee the least. Ed White was found with his hands over his head, having died while trying to open that damned hatch. Grissom was found on top of White. Their combined strength was no match for the gas pressure inside. Fellow Mercury Astronaut Wally Schirra said the burns on the bodies were minimal, and an open casket funeral was offered to Betty Grissom, but she declined to view Gus as a fire victim. She had seen too much of dead test pilots. Gus and Roger are buried next to each other in Arlington Nat. Cem. Ed White is buried at West Point.
Autopsies showed the men had inhaled super-heated smoke and gases when their oxygen lines burned through. Their tracheas were lined heavily with soot. The insides of their lungs were seared, and death was almost immediate. As far as the cabin was concerned, paper checklists were only burned on the outside, where oxygen met the paper. The insides were still white and legible. The control panel was covered with heavy soot from burned plastic, but the panel lights were still glowing when the hatch was opened.
The capsule was a Block 1 model, not capable of lunar injection. One other Block 1 remained, and both were disassembled in tandem to look for anomalies, plenty of which were found. The capsule and its contents was sealed in an environmentally controlled building at Langley, until somebody ordered the power shut off. Eventually a leak in the roof started to damage the container holding the capsule. NASA ordered the capsule taken to Florida and placed in an abandoned missile silo, along with the wreckage of the shuttle "Challenger".* To fit is in the silo, someone ordered the capsule cut in half. In fact, the outer launch shield was cut when the order was countered after protest from the astronaut's families. The remains did get placed inside the silo, and the silo sealed. No tours or visits are permitted, unless approved research is being conducted.
The Apollo 1 crew died of an accident resulting from careless assembly and condition which accelerated destruction of the interior. Prior to the first launch of a man in space, the SOviets had the precise same accident in a test chamber with a live Cosmonaut. Because of secrecy, his name was unknown until after Communism fell. Yuri Gagarin was his successor.

*Only about one-third of "Challenger" was recovered, with the rest remaining on the sea floor.

[Leasie]

Poo Bah McGee, I had no idea Gus's son thought the crew was murdered. Thank you for your post, lots of info I had not read before about how the bodies were found.

[theotherlondon]

I can still remember when men landed on the Moon back in 1969.

[neilmpenny]

Gus's son, Scott and I corresponded for awhile. He is convinced the crew was murdered to slow down the pace of the program. That is simply not the case. He claims to have handled and photographed a switch wired t short out. In fact, the switch is wired to light a panel light when activated. The men died of shoddy wiring in a 16p.s.i. pure oxygen environment. In that atmosphere, almost anything will burn. There was a foam rubber pillow under the men, soaked in pure oxygen, for God's sake!

Snip....

The Apollo 1 crew died of an accident resulting from careless assembly and condition which accelerated destruction of the interior. Prior to the first launch of a man in space, the Soviets had the precise same accident in a test chamber with a live Cosmonaut. Because of secrecy, his name was unknown until after Communism fell. Yuri Gagarin was his successor.

Snip...

Great post! I apologise for the snips, but if not this would be a monster post.

I guess Scott has to blame someone, but murder is a bit of a stretch.

The cosmonaut you refer to is Valentin Bondarenko who died on March 23, 1961. As you wrote, he was burned in a test chamber fire. He survived the fire, just, and died the next day. As you noted, it was covered up.

Four have died 'on the job'.

The Russians lost cosmonaut Vladmir Komarov when his parachute deployed after re-entry, but the suspension lines got tangled and the parachute didn't inflate. The force of impact allegedy, literally, melted his body. He was crying 'in rage' all the way down (cursing the incompetent fools who designed and built the spacecraft) according to a listening post in Turkey. Whilst in orbit, he was convinced he was going to die. Senior technicians had inspected the Soyuz 1 prior to flight and had found 203 structural problems — serious problems that would make this machine dangerous to navigate in space. April 24, 1967. Soyuz 1. This accident too was covered up.




Next cosmonauts to die were Georgi Dobrovolsky, Vladislav Volkov and Viktor Pacaev. Fail-safe valve opened during re-entry which resulted in decompression and death of entire crew. June 29, 1971. Soyuz 11. They were not wearing spacesuits.





I always wonder about Frank Borman.

He was scheduled to fly Apollo 9 (E Mission), the second flight of the LM in a higher Earth orbit, but when the LM wasn't ready to fly, James McDivitt's crew (Apollo 8, D Mission) was swapped with Boreman's crew. Since McDivitt's crew had the most time clocked in the LM simulator, they were always going to be the crew that had the first test flight of the LM in low Earth orbit (D Mission, McDivitt insisted upon it). So McDivitt's crew got bumped down one slot from Apollo 8 to Apollo 9, and Borman got bumped up from Apollo 9 to Apollo 8. Because there was no LM, and Borman's spacecraft (Apollo 8) was ready to fly, they scrapped the E Mission and changed Borman's flight to a lunar orbit flight with the command and service module only, rather than a high Earth orbit E Mission with the LM. This would take one step out of the process, speed up the program and give them a chance to fix any bugs before the moon-shot. As we know, Borman was the sole astronaut on the AS-204 Accident Review Board after the Apollo 1 fire. He would have known more about what really happened than any other astronaut in the program. Since he was the commander of Apollo 8, he was in position A1 to walk on the moon at some point on a future mission (Lovell, Boreman's Command Module Pilot, went on to command Apollo 13). In fact a journalist named Andrew Chaikin claims that Borman was Deke Slayton's first choice to be the first to walk on the moon, after Gus Grissom died in the fire (Deke and management had agreed that one of the original 7 be the first on the moon). Chaikin claims Deke offered the slot to Borman and he turned it down flat. Not sure about that. Deke had a rotational system (the rule of thumb was for backup crews to fly as prime crew three missions later), and if that was followed then Borman was not slotted to be the commander of Apollo 11. The swapping of Apollo's 8 and 9 affected the flight order because not only was the prime crew swapped, so were the backup crews. This put Armstrong as commander of Apollo 11. Armstrong had the coolest head of all of them in a crisis which was proved many times. He didn't need replacing by Borman.

I have often thought that Borman maybe saw too much during that fire investigation. Poor design, bad engineering, shoddy construction, shitty workmanship, effects of an accelerated unrealistc build program, shortcuts, lack of testing, inadequate testing when carried out, infighting between NASA and the contractor and general apathy of all involved. I don't think for a minute that any of them would have seriously thought about quitting the Apollo program before at least one flight, though others have been kicked out of NASA programs (Carpenter and Cooper). I figure Borman was commited to the Apollo 8 mission, what choice did he have? The eyes of the world were upon them, and if their only astronaut on the Apollo 1 board of inquiry walked out before flying, what message does that send? As soon as he met his Apollo 8 commitment, he was out the door. I think he had zero confidence in that capsule. Yes, Apollo 1 was a Block I spacecraft, and Apollo 8 was a Block II spacecraft, but a bad ship is a bad ship, no matter how many times you re-fit it.

As Borman said in the inquiry, it was a failure in imagination. They never imagined there would be a fire in the capsule, and that the 16 psi pure oxygen environment, coupled with the inward opening hatch and the abundance of inflammable material in the spacecraft, would be killers. I figure that all the while, in the back of his mind, he was asking "what other failures of imagination do we have on our hands here?" Apollo 13 would be the poster boy for that thought. Nobody, including myself, is questioning his courage. After what he saw and learned supervising the dismantling of the Apollo 1 capsule, he still went up on Apollo 8. Enormous balls.

This is my own twisted little theory. I have not read it anywhere else. Who spends 10 years in training and turns down a chance to walk on the moon? It's the whole point of the exercise! He said to spend more time with the Mrs and kids. What's another two years between friends? I don't buy it.

As an interesting aside, journalists often write that by launching Apollo 11 in July 1969, America just made the deadline set down by JFK. The reality is that they had Apollo 12 ready to go in September 1969 and Apollo 13 ready to go for November 1969. No way were they ever going to miss the moon-shot in 1969. Yes, Apollo 13 was a dud, but Apollo 12 wasn't. They were always going to make the deadline.

[Poo Bah MCGee]

Just about everything you wrote is on the mark. Frank Borman was on the scene of the fire before the bodies were removed. Yes, he did see so much, and heard the evidence directly from the technicians who disassembled the capsule. Borman, however, was the first to command a lunar flight, which was "good enough" for the mission. He was a West Pointer, the mission was far more important than his life, as far as he was concerned. Frank Borman is a "tough nut", all business, no time for foolishness while the mission lay in front. He was (is), however, very much in love with his wife, Susan, and under the pressure, Susan became an alcoholic. Frank Borman was ready to surrender further astronaut pressure to save his wife and assure her that she was forefront in his heart. The Apollo 8 crew, Frank and Susan Borman, Jim and Marilyn Lovell, Bill and Valerie Anders, are the only crew which kept their marriages together. Very rare amongst the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo astronauts.

I don't blame Scott Grissom for his interpretation of his father's death. He was a child when it happened, his father's girlfriend was brought to the funeral, NASA kep the family stretched apart, his father never completely eschewed the blame for the sinking of "Liberty Bell 7" (since recovered), his mother was livid that was more or less left behind after Gus died.

Visitors regularly place roses on Gus's and Roger Chaffee's graves at Arlington.

[Hidium]

I watched a doco made about the Challenger before the accident (shortly after the accident) at a Planetarium here. They were interviewing people involved with the program and eventually interviewed a guy who had written a song about the lofty ideals and hopes for the program. He was your typical redneck (I am one by birth so I know); his blue NASA jump suit was unzipped until about half way down his chest; he had a couple of gold chains on and had greasy looking hair. As he sang his song my buddy leaned over and said, "He works in the O Ring Department."

That's a great story. Love it.

I didn't realize so much of the Challenger was not recovered from the ocean. Another reason I don't want to go to the beach. Fish having sex in the ocean, sharks, astronaut body parts and sewage run-off. Not to mention oil spills. And those vortex things full of plastic bags... The ocean creeps me out. It's beautiful, I see it all the time, but I don't want to go in. Sorry that was off subject. At least I didn't go into my fear of the continental shelf.

[Hidium]

I'm not good at doing multiple quotes replies... Thanks Nail Penny and Poh Bah McGee for the information. Really good stuff.

[neilmpenny]

Just about everything you wrote is on the mark. Frank Borman was on the scene of the fire before the bodies were removed. Yes, he did see so much, and heard the evidence directly from the technicians who disassembled the capsule. Borman, however, was the first to command a lunar flight, which was "good enough" for the mission. He was a West Pointer, the mission was far more important than his life, as far as he was concerned. Frank Borman is a "tough nut", all business, no time for foolishness while the mission lay in front. He was (is), however, very much in love with his wife, Susan, and under the pressure, Susan became an alcoholic. Frank Borman was ready to surrender further astronaut pressure to save his wife and assure her that she was forefront in his heart. The Apollo 8 crew, Frank and Susan Borman, Jim and Marilyn Lovell, Bill and Valerie Anders, are the only crew which kept their marriages together. Very rare amongst the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo astronauts.

I don't blame Scott Grissom for his interpretation of his father's death. He was a child when it happened, his father's girlfriend was brought to the funeral, NASA kep the family stretched apart, his father never completely eschewed the blame for the sinking of "Liberty Bell 7" (since recovered), his mother was livid that was more or less left behind after Gus died.

Visitors regularly place roses on Gus's and Roger Chaffee's graves at Arlington.

I learn more from you in one minute than I do in a month reading the internet.

[JimC]

The ocean creeps me out. It's beautiful, I see it all the time, but I don't want to go in.

Ditto - used to do it all the time when I was a kid - gave it up about the time that "Jaws" came out. A few years ago a young kid was attacked by a shark off the AL coast - survived but lost so much blood that he is brain damaged. Turns out that his father and Uncle were fishing a few yards away and chumming the water. ASSHATS! "My kid is in the water - hey lets chum it to draw in some fish!"

I'm not good at doing multiple quotes replies... Thanks Nail Penny and Poh Bah McGee for the information. Really good stuff.

Agreed!

I learn more from you in one minute than I do in a month reading the internet.

Agree with you Neil - and the same to you; your logic and your facts are always spot on.

[Hidium]

I learn more from you in one minute than I do in a month reading the internet.

I

I agree. This has been most interesting. I've been reading your name as 'nail' penny. I'm a couple years behind on my reading glasses. Sorry!

[neilmpenny]

I

I agree. This has been most interesting. I've been reading your name as 'nail' penny. I'm a couple years behind on my reading glasses. Sorry!

Well, now at least you have nailed my name heheheh.

[Hidium]

Well, now at least you have nailed my name heheheh.

Bahahaha!

[Aviatrix]

Last radio transmission from Apollo 1. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aa1_1345878049

Awww. To bad it was deleted from liveleak due to copyright issues. Wonder where it's at?

[Dulcinea]

Pretty sure I saw it on YouTube at some point.

[Hidium]

Pretty sure I saw it on YouTube at some point.

You Tube is an amazing thing. You can get music, documentaries, science, recipes, AND a lot of weird, bizarre stuff. Someone told me that it contains more hours of original content than many years of television.

[Aviatrix]

Gordo Cooper was kicked out?! Scott Carpenter was removed from space missions and sent to NASAs version of Sealab (seriously how much further from low earth orbit can you get? ) So did Gordo Cooper was kicked out, too?

S

[neilmpenny]

Gordo Cooper was kicked out?! Scott Carpenter was removed from space missions and sent to NASAs version of Sealab (seriously how much further from low earth orbit can you get? ) So did Gordo Cooper was kicked out, too?

S

Of Carpenter, Kris Kraft said (whilst Carpenter was still in orbit mind you) "That goddamn son-of-a-bitch is never going to fly for me again" (or words to that effect). I wrote a piece about this in Scott Carpenter's thread. http://www.findadeath.com/forum/show...cott+carpenter Post #8

Gordo was his own worst enemy, and he plain wore out the patience of NASA's management. His first run-in came when he was in training for Mercury and buzzed an airfield. I can't tell you for sure if he did it supersonic, but he did get in trouble.

We were down at the Cape, a couple of days before the MA-9 launch, when somebody started tearing up the place in an F-102. Just buzzing it from one end to the other. Well, there weren't that many F-102's likely to be around there, so I had a pretty good idea who it was---Gordo.
I got on the phone to Deke at the crew quarters. "I think it's our boy."
"I know," he said, then had to shout "He's going over us right now."
Fun is fun, but this was two days before the launch and didn't show much common sense on Gordo's part. I was very willing to turn the mission over to Shepard at any moment, and I said as much to Deke. "Tell you what," he said. "let's just sweat him a little."
All right, whatever would get the message across. So Deke was waiting for Gordo when he came in, and he told him Walt Williams was looking for the guy that buzzed the Cape, and that he was going to ground him. He really put the fear of the Lord into Gordo, because Gordo knew I would have put Shepard in his place in a minute.
That night I went out to dinner with the seven of them. Wally was Wally, telling jokes. Everybody was having a good time--but there was Gordo, sitting alone at the table, trying to be invisible, especially when I would start talking about grounding any hot dog pilot who was dumb enough to buzz the place.

Walt Williams in the book DEKE! U.S. Manned Space: From Mercury to the Shuttle. ISBN 0-312-85503-6

His first mission on MA-9, Mercury-Atlas 9 (Faith 7), set a lot of records and was a success. His next mission was as commander for Gemini 5 which he flew with Pete Conrad. That too was an unqualified success. He was next assigned as backup crew for Gemini 12, and that is where the trouble began. He had to be threatened and coerced to get in the simulator. It wasn't about fear of flying though. I once read or heard Cooper described as a "kick the tyres and fly" kind of pilot. I read it as he had absolute faith in the technology he flew. He had already been up in a Gemini, so he knew how to fly the thing. Sure there would be some changes to the instrument panel due to mission requirements, experiments to test etc, but he didn't need 1000 hours (or however long they spend in there) to learn it. I'm guessing that was his logic.

Next up Gordo was on the backup crew for Apollo 10, but, according to Deke, he didn't do a good job. As per Deke's rotational system, the backup crew becomes the prime (flight) crew three flights subsequent. So Cooper would have been slated to command Apollo 13. However, Shepard had rectified his ear problem with experimental surgery and was put in as commander of Apollo 13. After much discussion, it was decided that Shepard had not had enough time to prepare for Apollo 13. The suggestion from Jim Lovell was that his crew needed to put some time in as a backup crew. So Shepard's Apollo 13 was swapped with Jim Lovell's Apollo 14, and the rest, as they say, is history (except for Ken Mattingly getting swapped out with Jim Swigert).

In Deke's own words;

I hadn't had further plans for Gordo after Gemini 5. It wasn't that I had lost faith in him--I don't think I really did. But he was a hard sell to management because he never really put his heart into training, and seemed to spend a lot of his time being more interested in racing cars. He had come in at the last minute to back up Gemini 12 for me, and I'd been able to turn him to back up Apollo 10. At some point there was an outside chance he could have wound up with Apollo 13. But he hadn't done enough to change anyone's mind. So it was time for him to move on.

Deke Slayton in his book DEKE! U.S. Manned Space: From Mercury to the Shuttle. ISBN 0-312-85503-6

What really happened? As commander of the backup crew for Apollo 10, Gordo's crew could have been bumped up to prime crew at any time without warning. Jim Swigert replaced Ken Mattingly just days before the flight of Apollo 13. Don Eisele banged up his shoulder in the KC-135 'Vomit Comet', which put Ed White in Apollo 1.

One month before the launch of Apollo 10, Gordon Cooper asked permission to race a car at the Daytona 500. Instead of being in the simulator preparing, he wanted to go race. What happened if he crashed and damaged a leg for instance? You can only imagine how monumentally pissed off management at NASA would have been. It was the final straw.

It was only a couple of years before his death that Gordo forgave Al Shepard for taking his spot on Apollo 13. The reality is that Gordo did it to himself. Shepard was in the right place at the right time, and the first American in space was going to walk on the moon is a publicity coup NASA couldn't resist.


Btw Aviatrix, Sealab II was a U.S. NAVY program. Scott was a naval officer, so he applied for leave from NASA to take part in it. He knew he was finished at NASA.