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Thread: 100-year murder mystery: Belle Gunness

  1. #1
    malaki Guest

    I found this interesting

    Legendary Murderess Mystery: Case Closed?


    The Gunness Family



    Jan. 14, 2008 -- The century-old mystery surrounding the death of Belle Gunness, perhaps the world's most prolific female serial killer, might be finally solved, following DNA testing carried out by a team of U.S. researchers.
    A Norwegian immigrant who lived in Indiana at the turn of the last century, Belle Gunness murdered dozens and dozens of people, dismembered their bodies, and buried them in her yard. Perhaps more than 40 people were buried in the ground of her 42-acre farm in LaPorte, Ind.
    Nearly all the victims were men -- wealthy prospective husbands recruited by ads in lonely hearts columns.
    The butchery came to light when Gunness' house burned down on April 28, 1908, revealing the bodies of a beheaded woman and three young children.
    A Grim Investigation
    At first it was thought that the bodies belonged to Belle Gunness and her three children Myrtle, Lucy and Phillip. But as further investigation into the property revealed more dismembered body parts, doubts were raised as to whether the headless woman was really Gunness.
    "Like most researchers, I believe that Belle Gunness did not die in the fire of her home, but that she killed another female to fake her death," University of Indianapolis graduate student Andrea Simmons told Discovery News.
    Simmons, a 47-year-old attorney who returned to school with an eye toward working on international genocide investigations, recently exhumed the disputed remains and hopes to compare them with DNA samples from Gunness' letters.
    The casket she exhumed in a Chicago-area cemetery contained not just an adult woman's body, but also the partial remains of two children.
    "Instead of answering questions, it just opened up more," said Stephen Nawrocki, the forensic anthropologist who leads the University of Indianapolis team.
    Initial analysis of the woman's remains did not help.
    "Some of the physicians who examined Belle's remains in 1908 believed they were of a woman who stood only 5 feet, 3 inches. Belle stood 5 feet 8 inches...However, our analysis of her long bones indicates a height...within Belle's range. The age range is correct, too," Simmons said.
    At this point, only DNA testing can provide a definitive answer. Simmons hopes it can be completed within the next few months, possibly in time for the 100th anniversary of the discovery of the bodies in April. Legendary Murderess Mystery: Case Closed?

    Rossella Lorenzi, Discovery News
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    Whose Bones?



    Obvious Motives
    Born Brynhild Paulsdatter Storset in 1859 in the small village of Selbu, Norway, Gunness immigrated to the United States at about age 22 and Americanized her name to Belle.
    In 1884, Gunness married Max "Mads" Sorenson. The couple opened a confectioner's shop in downtown Chicago. Soon the building burned down, and the couple collected insurance money.
    In 1898 another fire destroyed Gunness' house, and she collected insurance again. Of her four children, two died in infancy -- officially because of acute colitis, but most likely because of poisoning. Indeed, they were both insured and the insurance paid off.
    Mads died on July 30, 1900 -- the only day that two life insurance policies on him overlapped. His symptoms were those of strychnine poisoning. The insurance companies paid $8,500. Gunness bought the farm on the edge of La Porte.
    In 1902 she married Peter Gunness. One week after the marriage, the man's infant daughter died. Gunness, himself, lasted less thnt a year. Belle Gunness collected $3,000 in insurance.
    After her husband's death, Gunness began advertising for potential husbands in Scandinavian newspapers. Candidates were asked to bring all their money as proof of their good intentions. As they met their Gunness, they were poisoned.
    In 1906, Belle's young employee disappeared -- her body was unearthed in the property after the fire. Most likely, she had discovered Gunness' activities.
    The 1908 fire was the final chapter to her story, though questions over her real fate continued to puzzle true-crime aficionados for a century.
    Identity Crisis
    Rumors about Gunness' escape are well grounded. First of all, there is the headless body found in the house -- and therefore no chance of using dental records to identify the body. Moreover, just before the fire, Belle made out a will and bought kerosene.
    The blaze was blamed on her handyman, Ray Lamphere, who was in love with Gunness. Lamphere confessed on his prison deathbed that he set the house on fire and helped Gunness in her escape. According to Lamphere, the headless body belonged to a woman from Chicago whom Belle had just hired as housekeeper.
    According to one theory, Gunness moved to Los Angeles, changed her name to Esther Carlson and murdered a man she was caring for.
    Carlson, who bore a striking resemblance to Gunness, died in prison before her trial in 1931.
    If it is not possible to extract DNA from envelopes Gunness addressed to one of her victims, Simmons plans to extract DNA from Gunness' sister. She will also likely test Carlson's DNA.
    Suzanne McKay, a great-granddaughter of Belle Gunness' sister and one of the last living relatives of the infamous serial killer, supports the project.
    "I had often wished that somehow we could prove by present-day DNA, to all the naysayers, that it was not Belle in that grave," McKay, who is writing a book on her notorious relative, told the Indianapolis Star.
    "I am sure that she killed a young woman from Chicago, poisoned and beheaded her the night before the fire, and placed her in the basement, to make it look like she and the children had been killed."

  2. #2
    natbrat76 Guest
    Wow! I have never heard of her before now. Fascinating story! It's amazing what DNA can reveal now.

  3. #3
    kelbons Guest
    Yeah, this is the first time I've heard this case, too. What a psycho... greedy to boot!

    I really don't think this country will ever run out of morbid stories like this!

    I'll be curious to see what comes of the DNA testing.

  4. #4
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    I'd never heard of this one either...you've gotta love the fact that DNA testing can help to solve mysteries that even 10-20 years ago were thought to be un-solvable.

  5. #5
    Gardner32 Guest
    Doesn't anyone here read Crime Library? I must be really morbid!! I love that site, and I have read the story!

  6. #6
    WendyK Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardner32 View Post
    Doesn't anyone here read Crime Library? I must be really morbid!! I love that site, and I have read the story!
    Yes I read it all the time! This is a very interesting story but I hate the To Be Continued factor of it.Let's get some DNA results please!

  7. #7
    leevancleef Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardner32 View Post
    Doesn't anyone here read Crime Library? I must be really morbid!! I love that site, and I have read the story!
    i check the site sometimes, but ive never read about this story.
    Pretty fascinating.

  8. #8
    Wednesday Guest

    100-year murder mystery: Belle Gunness


    By TOM COYNE – 3 hours ago
    LAPORTE, Ind. (AP) — Asle Helgelien didn't believe Belle Gunness' claims that his brother, missing for months after answering the widow's lonely hearts ad, had left her northern Indiana farm for Chicago or maybe their native Norway.
    Suspicious after a bank said his brother, Andrew, had cashed a $3,000 check — a large sum in 1908 — the South Dakota farmer came to LaPorte and discovered his brother's remains in a pit of household waste.
    A century later, modern forensic scientists hope to solve once and for all what appears to have been a web of multiple murders, deceit, sex and money orchestrated by a woman dubbed Lady Bluebeard, after the fairy tale character who killed multiple wives and left their bodies in his castle.
    Many locals believed Gunness staged her death in a farmhouse fire, 100 years ago Monday, before Asle Helgelien's arrival to cover up years spent poisoning and dismembering more than two dozen people.
    Forensic anthropologist Andi Simmons grew up in the area east of Chicago hearing tales of the LaPorte black widow.
    "There was always a sense of, what if she's still out there? What if she's lurking around," said Simmons, who decided to explore the case as part of her thesis.
    Gunness probably killed at least 25 people and possibly as many as 33, Simmons said. The exact number isn't known because authorities never thoroughly searched the farm property after Helgelien found his brother's remains.
    "When you look at the numbers, she should be a household name," Simmons said.
    The official account was that Gunness died in the fire at age 48, along with three foster children and another woman who has not been identified.
    Bruce Johnson, chairman of LaPorte's Gunness 100th Anniversary Committee, said some residents wish the story would fade away. But programs leading up to the anniversary of her death have drawn many who are eager to share their own tales.
    John Olsen, 87, of nearby Schererville, said at a recent anniversary program that Gunness, a Norwegian immigrant, had a reputation among Norwegian families as a great foster mother.
    He said Gunness took in his aunt, Jennie Olsen, at 7 months old after her mother died. Jennie decided to stay with Gunness when she got older, even after her father remarried.
    "Jennie had many opportunities to come and join her siblings ... and went back to Belle because Belle was the only mother she had ever known," Olsen said. "And Belle gave her an excellent home."
    However, Jennie Olsen's body was the second discovered when authorities began digging after the 1908 fire, and many believe she had been killed two years earlier because she uncovered her foster mother's secrets.
    The woman arrived in Chicago from Norway in 1881 at age 21, and married three years later. After her first husband died, Gunness moved to LaPorte, where she met Peter Gunness. They married in April 1902, but he died later that year when a sausage grinder and jar of hot water fell on him.
    In both cases, family members believed the husbands' deaths were suspicious, Johnson said. And in both cases, Gunness collected thousands in insurance money.
    After Peter Gunness' death, his widow advertised in Midwestern Norwegian-language newspapers for a potential mate. One read: "A woman who owns a beautifully located and valuable farm in first class condition, wants a good and reliable man as partner in same. Some little cash is required and will be furnished first class security."
    Though Gunness was a plain, 5-foot-8 woman who weighed as much as 280 pounds, her letters were eloquent, Johnson said.
    "She wrote wonderful letters, very encouraging," he said. "She would tell them about how lovely LaPorte was."
    The coroner declared Gunness dead after her dentures were found in the fire debris two weeks later. But many believe she paid someone to plant the dentures — which Simmons said were found intact and not burned.
    When authorities determined the fire was arson, suspicion turned to a handyman who had worked for Gunness and had been her lover. He was convicted of arson but acquitted of murder.
    For a quarter of a century, Gunness sightings were reported all over the country.
    The last came in 1931, when a woman named Esther Carlson died in Los Angeles while awaiting trial on charges she killed her employer. Carlson resembled Gunness, was about the same age, and there was no record of her before 1908, Simmons said.
    Simmons' team exhumed a body believed to be Gunness' from a Chicago-area cemetery in November. The casket contained body parts from two children — but they did not belong to the foster children reported to have died in the fire. They could be remains of other victims whose remains had been buried in the basement and were inadvertently scooped up in the ashes, Simmons said.
    "Now we don't know whether we're adding two more people to our body count," she said.
    Last edited by Wednesday; 06-28-2008 at 07:12 AM.

  9. #9
    Lisamarie Guest
    wow thats beyond amazing she even looks evil.....how could you be that horrible wow!!!!

  10. #10
    endsleigh03 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    wow thats beyond amazing she even looks evil.....how could you be that horrible wow!!!!
    Ever notice how women from that time frame always looked so stern and severe?
    I figure it's from the damn hard lives they lived.
    We are so spoiled today.

  11. #11
    Sherye Guest
    so who believes that she did it

  12. #12
    Wednesday Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherye View Post
    so who believes that she did it
    I say she did it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    She did it.
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  14. #14
    BetteDavisEyes1986 Guest
    Her eyes are so evil looking she appears like she could kill. Guilty bitch

  15. #15
    lady_blue Guest
    I went to a speech given by Andrea Simmons, the forensic anthropologist who exhumed the bones recently. It truly was a fascinating talk.

    She cleared up some myths that have been spread about her. One, she never gave birth. All of her children were 'adopted'. Two, it wasn't about the sex with her. Many of the men were killed within hours of arriving at the farm. It really was the thrill of the kill and the money that these men brought in.

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    A fascinating case! Thank you for posting, Wednesday. I'll be looking forward to reading any updates as the new investigation continues. I'm glad they'll not only be looking into the many potential homicides, but her eventual fate. That fire sounds really staged, so I'm quite sure she escaped. How sad for the innocents she dragged down and killed, all the name of greed!

  17. #17
    JestersKiss Guest

    Lady Bluebeard Investigation continues


  18. #18
    Wednesday Guest

  19. #19
    JestersKiss Guest
    Opps sorry didnt see it when i searched,,,my bad

  20. #20
    pvezz Guest
    Belle Guiness was one of the features one of the HBO "Autopsy" shows that I've seen. I could have sworn that the woman who reappeared in the 30's was positively identified as being her.

  21. #21
    tarsier Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Ever notice how women from that time frame always looked so stern and severe?
    I figure it's from the damn hard lives they lived.
    We are so spoiled today.
    Portraits back then were done in "plates" (quartering the face to be fitted together for the final print) also since pinhole photos burned a negative to a glass panel the process of a single snap shot was slow requiring the subject to remain still.

    About Belle I had never heard of foster children being killed in that fire. The version I heard included Belle having a daughter and hiring a woman with a daughter to do housekeeping shortly before the fire. Belle definItely got out but I always wondered about her daughter.

  22. #22
    lady_blue Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tarsier View Post
    About Belle I had never heard of foster children being killed in that fire. The version I heard included Belle having a daughter and hiring a woman with a daughter to do housekeeping shortly before the fire. Belle definItely got out but I always wondered about her daughter.
    Belle had daughters, they just were not biologically hers. An unidentified woman was seen in Belle's carriage days before the fire. It is thought that she went to Chicago and hired that woman on to be a servant of some sort. The headless body matches the height and build of the woman seen with Belle.

  23. #23
    tarsier Guest
    I've also heard the rumor of her being seen in Cinci during the 30's my Grandmother followed this case and left news clippings about it. Course not like journalists were as into checking their facts back then.

  24. #24
    QuarterRat Guest
    Have you ever BEEN to LaPorte Indiana? You might start killing people too.

    Picture this: Indiana, 1910. It's cold, it's lonely and you're saddled with a weight problem. Sure you can write real pretty like but dollars for donuts this was an unhappy gal. The first one probably died accidentally but when she got the windfall of insurance money she knew she was onto a good thing. As Clarice Starling said when asked if Buffalo Bill would ever stop "No, he's got a real taste for it now"

  25. #25
    interrestedintn Guest
    I've read a lot about this old chick. Yeah, she killed them. I've heard her referred to as the first female serial killer before.

  26. #26
    hoxharding Guest
    I think they based the so-so movie 'Method' on Belle Guiness. Except Belle doesn't exactly resemble Liz Hurley.

  27. #27
    Avalon Guest
    Some photos:

    Belle with her children, Lucy and Myrtle Sorenson and Philip Gunness:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/35514186.jpg

    Her foster daughter, Jennie Olson:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ess/jennie.jpg

    A young Belle Gunness?:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ss/ep8_13a.jpg

    The head of Ole Budsberg [WARNING: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC]:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...unness/bg4.jpg

    Body of her last victim, Andrew Helgelein [WARNING: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC]:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...unness/bg5.jpg

    Inspecting her exhumed grave:

    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/gunness3.jpg

    Jewelry discovered on headless body that is/was presumed to be of Belle:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a.../jewellery.jpg

    Barn on Gunness farm that was used as a morgue for all the bodies:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...orgue2_000.jpg

  28. #28
    smooches27 Guest
    Great pics Avalon!! Thanks for posting them!!

  29. #29
    Avalon Guest
    Some more photos:

    False teeth, identified as belonging to Belle, that were found in fire:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ess/425514.jpg

    The curious swarming the Gunness farm (they are standing in front of "the morgue"):
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ess/425512.jpg

    Searching for more bodies in the basement of the burnt down home:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ess/425511.jpg

    Smokey remains of house:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ess/425510.jpg

    Our beloved Death Hag ancestors picnicking on the Gunness property :
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ess/425513.jpg

    Searching the rubble:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...Gunness/41.jpg

    Where 9 bodies were found:
    http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ess/425504.jpg
    Last edited by Avalon; 06-27-2008 at 07:20 PM.

  30. 06-27-2008, 06:58 PM

  31. 06-27-2008, 07:04 PM

  32. 06-27-2008, 07:15 PM

  33. #30
    Avalon Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by smooches27 View Post
    Great pics Avalon!! Thanks for posting them!!
    You're very welcome! It's funny, I just discovered this case on Wednesday and have been looking up information since. I came across all these pictures last night and was going to post about it tonight but someone beat me to it. LOL Great minds think alike! hehe

    This case is just so fascinating!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherye View Post
    so who believes that she did it
    I believe 100% that she did, and that there are many other victims who have yet to be discovered - they probably never will. I would love to be able to dig up all the land she had and see what I could find... I'm sure there are more innocent souls laying out there. So sad.

    I don't believe she died in the fire. While on his deathbed Ray Lamphere, who was charged with her death but only convicted of arson, told a clergyman that he helped Belle bury many of her victims, set the fire and also get away. He swore she was still alive.

    You can read more about his confession here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_G...f_Ray_Lamphere

    Quote Originally Posted by lady_blue View Post
    She cleared up some myths that have been spread about her. One, she never gave birth. All of her children were 'adopted'.
    Really? I have read that she did give birth to Philip. Apparently, one of the reasons she got away with killing Guness (despite Jennie being overheard telling a classmate her mom killed her dad, and even being brought before the coroner's inquest about it) was because she was pregnant with Philip at the time.

  34. #31
    tarsier Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Ever notice how women from that time frame always looked so stern and severe?
    I figure it's from the damn hard lives they lived.
    We are so spoiled today.
    The men and children don't look much better my Grandmother who was born in 1896 told me it was because the photography equipment back then was very slow so a person had to hold a pose for an extended period of time if larger portraits were commissioned that pose could be hours as these were often segmented together for the final print which is why one eye may appear slightly higher than the other.

  35. #32
    Seagorath Guest
    Awesome post...Looks like the good old U.S.A. has had more Serial Killers than originally thought.

  36. #33
    lab_rat Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tarsier View Post
    The men and children don't look much better my Grandmother who was born in 1896 told me it was because the photography equipment back then was very slow so a person had to hold a pose for an extended period of time if larger portraits were commissioned that pose could be hours as these were often segmented together for the final print which is why one eye may appear slightly higher than the other.

    That's very interesting and explains a lot about old photos!

  37. #34
    Avalon Guest
    Yeah, photography from back then sucked... I saw a documentary on some photographer - her name escapes me - and she used a camera that was probably around that time and she had to stand there for 8 minutes (I think - it was a long time, period.) without moving or blinking. I would never have been able to do it - no scratching that itch, Missy! LOL

  38. #35
    lady_blue Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
    Really? I have read that she did give birth to Philip. Apparently, one of the reasons she got away with killing Guness (despite Jennie being overheard telling a classmate her mom killed her dad, and even being brought before the coroner's inquest about it) was because she was pregnant with Philip at the time.
    More than likely Belle got Philip through "other" means. I think she probably befriended an unwed mother of that time and "adopted" Philip.

  39. #36
    Sam Guest
    Very interesting.....I'm sure serial killers have been around since the dawn of time.
    I don't understand it myself, but I once heard of a farm in Oklahoma where someone had buried dozens of bodies under a barn over a hundred years ago, so serial killers aren't just a thing of the 20th century.

  40. #37
    Vamp Guest
    I think back then it was often hard for men to believe women could commit such heinous crimes. I believe the jury of Lizzy Borden stated they simply couldn't imagine a woman committing the crime.

  41. #38
    hoxharding Guest
    My Father told me his mother used to tell him stories about Belle when he was a little boy.
    So, Belle stories must of been like 'Boogyman stories'

  42. #39
    Mrs. Watson Guest
    Good article about Andrea Simmons in Indianapolis Woman.

    http://indianapoliswoman.com/mainfeatures2.asp

    Andrea sounds like a death hag.

  43. #40
    Giada Guest
    I watched a portion of The Bad Seed today, and on the Wiki site there was reference to Belle ...

    I thought she was in need of being resurrected ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_Gunness

  44. #41
    DonnaMc Guest
    I have never heard this story. Great thread! I would be interested in knowing the end of the story.

  45. #42
    Mulvaness Guest
    I have had my nightly meds so forgive grammar mistakes!!!! I believe it is entirely possible that she faked her death. I would love to see a portrait (initial skim, I did not see one) of the woman who they think could be Guinness's alter ego..

  46. #43
    tarsier Guest
    My Grandmother who had lived during this time always claimed Belle and one of her daughters held up in cinci for years after the crime.

  47. #44
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    now this is what death hag means to me! great story. crime library rocks!
    pull the string!

  48. #45
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giada View Post
    I watched a portion of The Bad Seed today, and on the Wiki site there was reference to Belle ...

    I thought she was in need of being resurrected ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_Gunness

    Bessie Denker!

    VCNJ~

  49. #46
    Join Date
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    This is from a ghost-hunting site; the only worthwhile thing is that the writer describes Belle's property today, with a pretty, pastoral photo at the bottom of the page.

    http://www.ghostvillage.com/resource...07202006.shtml

    Here is a photo which is purported to be of the mysterious "Esther Carlson" suspected in 1931 as being Belle in old age. I don't see the resemblance myself, but the image is from a blog that no longer exists (yet the image came up on Google.) So I don't know who to ask about it. You be the judge.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Belle Gunness (005).jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	17.2 KB 
ID:	30545  

  50. #47
    cloudddae Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardner32 View Post
    Doesn't anyone here read Crime Library? I must be really morbid!! I love that site, and I have read the story!
    No, but I plan to now that I know about it. Thank you for drawing my attention to it.

  51. #48
    Mulvaness Guest
    Thank you Linnie!!!

  52. #49
    Mulvaness Guest
    I don't know Linnie, I see it. It is the eyes...

  53. #50
    DonnaMc Guest
    I don't see it.

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