Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 82

Thread: Josef Mengele was Evil

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180

    Josef Mengele was Evil

    "Josef Mengele (March 16, 1911‚?? February 7, 1979) was a German SS officer and a physician in the German Nazi concentration camp Auschwitz-Birkenau. He gained notoriety chiefly for being one of the SS physicians who supervised the selection of arriving transports of prisoners, determining who was to be killed and who was to become a forced laborer, and for performing human experiments on camp inmates, amongst whom Mengele was known as the Angel of Death.

    Mengele used Auschwitz as an opportunity to continue his research on heredity, using inmates for human experimentation. He was particularly interested in twins; they would be selected and placed in special barracks. He also recruited Berthold Epstein, a Czech pediatrician. As a doctor, Epstein proposed to Mengele a study into treatments of disease called Noma. This was noted for particularly affecting children from the Gypsy camp.While the cause of Noma remains relatively unknown, it is now known that it has a higher occurrence in children suffering from malnutrition and a lower immune system response. Many develop the disease shortly after contracting another illness such as measles or tuberculosis. Mengele tried to prove that Noma was caused by racial inferiority.

    Mengele took an interest in physical abnormalities discovered among the arrivals at the concentration camp. These included dwarfs, notably the Ovitz family and a Jewish Romanian artist's family, seven of whose ten members were dwarfs. Prior to their deportation they toured in Eastern Europe as the Lilliput Troupe. He often called them "my dwarf family;" to him they seemed to be the perfect expression of "the abnorm."
    Mengele occupied his time with other numerous acts of the most base cruelty, including the dissection of live infants; the castration of boys and men without the use of an anesthetic; and the administering of high-voltage electric shocks to women inmates under the auspices of testing their endurance. On one occasion Mengele even sterilized a group of Polish nuns with an X-ray machine, leaving the celibate women horribly burned.

    Mengele also attempted to change eye color by injecting chemicals into children's eyes, and he performed various amputations of limbs and other brutal surgeries. Rena Gelissen's account of his time in Auschwitz details certain experiments performed on female prisoners around October 1943. Mengele would experiment on the chosen girls, performing sterilization and shock treatments. Most of the victims died, either due to the experiments or later infections. Once Mengele's assistant rounded up 14 pairs of Gypsy twins during the night. Mengele placed them on his polished marble dissection table and put them to sleep. He then proceeded to inject chloroform into their hearts, killing them instantaneously. Mengele then began dissecting and meticulously noting each and every piece of the twins' bodies.

    At Auschwitz Mengele did a number of twin studies, and these twins were usually murdered after the experiment was over and their bodies dissected. He supervised an operation by which two Gypsy children were sewn together to create Siamese twins; the hands of the children became badly infected where the veins had been resected.

    The subjects of Mengele's research were better fed and housed than ordinary prisoners and were, for the time being, safe from the gas chambers. When visiting his child subjects, he introduced himself as "Uncle Mengele" and offered them sweets. Some survivors remember that despite his grim acts, he was also called "Mengele the protector." He nonetheless regarded the subjects as material on which to conduct his experiments, not as human beings. On several occasions he killed subjects simply to be able to dissect them afterwards. Mengele was almost fanatical about drawing blood from twins, mostly identical twins. He is reported to have bled some to death this way.

    The book Children of the Flames by Joe E. White chronicles the notorious medical experimental activities of Josef Mengele on approximately three thousand twins who passed through the Auschwitz death camp during WWII until its liberation at the end of the war. Only a few of the three thousand twins survived and now fifty years later they have told their story of how they were given special privileges in Auschwitz due to Mengele‚??s interest in twins and how as a result they have suffered during the past fifty years as the children who survived the still unknown and unexplained medical experiments and injections which they were subjected to at the hands of Josef Mengele.

    "I have never accepted the fact that Mengele himself believed he was doing serious work ‚?? not from the slipshod way he went about it. He was only exercising his power. Mengele ran a butcher shop ‚?? major surgeries were performed without anesthesia. Once, I witnessed a stomach operation ‚?? Mengele was removing pieces from the stomach, but without any anesthetic. Another time, it was a heart that was removed, again, without anesthesia. It was horrifying. Mengele was a doctor who became mad because of the power he was given. Nobody ever questioned him ‚?? why did this one die? Why did that one perish? The patients did not count. He professed to do what he did in the name of science, but it was a madness on his part."- Alex Dekel

    After the war, he first hid in Austria under an assumed name, then escaped and lived in South America, first in Argentina (until 1959) and finally in Brazil, in the cities of Serra Negra, Moji das Cruzes, and then died in Bertioga, where he drowned in the sea after suffering a stroke. His identity was confirmed by forensic experts from UNICAMP (Campinas University) using DNA testing on his remains."

    I read a book about this sick bastard and it was beyond horrific. One of the many horrors of the Holocaust.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,123
    Yes he was !

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Utah, How f'ing exciting is that.
    Posts
    6,148
    I honestly almost got physically sick to my stomach when I first read about some of this stuff!

    Sick fucker!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    Doh I forgot to post a link to some of the photos. Not all of them are Mengele's victims, however, some of the photos are disturbing. (All photos are in black and white.)

    http://www.deathcamps.info/Experiments/experiments.htm

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Utah, How f'ing exciting is that.
    Posts
    6,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    Doh I forgot to post a link to some of the photos. Not all of them are Mengele's victims, however, some of the photos are disturbing. (All photos are in black and white.)

    http://www.deathcamps.info/Experiments/experiments.htm
    Makes you wonder how de could do it. I guess its called no conscious.

    I will pass on the link. I have seen some once and I honestly almost lost it.

    I was so sick after reading and looking at pics. God and the poor kids.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    The kids bug me, too. All of the pics are horrid, it's the anguish on their faces that gets to me.

    I just don't understand how someone could do that.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Utah, How f'ing exciting is that.
    Posts
    6,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    The kids bug me, too. All of the pics are horrid, it's the anguish on their faces that gets to me.

    I just don't understand how someone could do that.
    Totally agree. I just hope he is rotting in hell?

    One look was enough for me.

  8. 04-06-2008, 05:42 AM

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,123
    Im actually at a loss for words when confronted by this type of thing...........to see the pain on those faces!

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    18,063
    As I posted on the other thread, I am suprised he is not listed.
    I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!

    Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
    http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,243
    There were some pictures recently discovered showing Mengele and some of his cohorts at a Nazi 'retreat' near Auschwitz...smiling, relaxed, seemingly "normal." (Sorry I'm having trouble remembering where I saw them and, as such, can't post them here until I remember)!

    I think the term "the banality of evil" has never been more appropriate than when looking at those pictures. There are no physical markers, even though a lot of us expect them...these guys looked like anybody else taking a break from work. That's what's scary--they looked just like you and me.




  12. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Utah, How f'ing exciting is that.
    Posts
    6,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    There were some pictures recently discovered showing Mengele and some of his cohorts at a Nazi 'retreat' near Auschwitz...smiling, relaxed, seemingly "normal." (Sorry I'm having trouble remembering where I saw them and, as such, can't post them here until I remember)!

    I think the term "the banality of evil" has never been more appropriate than when looking at those pictures. There are no physical markers, even though a lot of us expect them...these guys looked like anybody else taking a break from work. That's what's scary--they looked just like you and me.

    Interesting post. I often wonder sometimes when I am at the store or at the gas station looking at people wondering they are serial killers or the like.

    I mean really how can you tell by looking at someone? You can't.

    I know the Nazi's were into the occult and they also were looking for the lost ark of the covenant starting in the early 30's. I think if he had such strong beliefs in that kind of stuff maybe in his mind he was able to justify what he was doing?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,912
    My dad is obsesed with all things Nazi germany...so have grown up around books about this guy and all the evil they did...it amazes me how out of control they got! Also how many escaped and lived out the rest of their lives......Ugh!!! Fasinating and truly disturbing..But people need to know and look at these pic into their eyes and never forget.Because it happened....it was real..and it was beyond any evil; we could ever imagin.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan7962 View Post
    Interesting post. I often wonder sometimes when I am at the store or at the gas station looking at people wondering they are serial killers or the like.

    I mean really how can you tell by looking at someone? You can't.

    I know the Nazi's were into the occult and they also were looking for the lost ark of the covenant starting in the early 30's. I think if he had such strong beliefs in that kind of stuff maybe in his mind he was able to justify what he was doing?
    I think that occasionally too, but mostly about hitchhikers.

    I don't know much about Nazis and the occult, but I do know there was a pretty big connection. To simplify the Nazi madness and atrocities, maybe Monty Python said it best: "You're a fookin' loon-y!"

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,810
    That really sick.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Chevyheaven View Post
    That really sick.


    Yes I am well aware of that.

    A related story: I dunno if I mentioned it earlier, but when I was 17 I had the opportunity to go to Germany, and one of our stops was Dachau. The actual town was a quaint, cozy little German town, very green and well kept. It was hard to reconcile that a few miles away was a death factory. It meant a lot of me to see it, as my maternal grandfather was with the first group of U.S. soldiers to raid Dachau. It was eerie to walk the same gravel, see the same ovens, stand in the barracks, and know that all around you people had died. The nuns in the chapel suddenly rang bells and started singing it Latin, it was very ethereal and sad. There was a pretty little meadow, a park-like area, with a statue for all who had died there. There was a well dressed old gentleman with a cane sitting on one of the benches. When he saw that we were American tourists he came over and spoke with us. He had been imprisoned at Dachau from the time the camp had been opened until the time it was liberated. This was 1997, and he had returned to the concentration camp every single day since it's liberation. He had not missed a day. He had an air of grief about him that nothing would ever alleviate, and his eyes were haunted when we rolled up his shirtsleeve and showed us the tattoo of his 'prisoner number'.
    I don't know that Dachau, in the daylight, with a group of people, was a scary place, per se, but it had a heavy air of intense sadness and sorrow, the kind of sorrow that is screaming and unable to be stopped. It was like it wafted up from the very ground. Honestly, everything else we saw that day paled in comparison. I thought, you just took me to this horrible place where hundreds of thousands of people were killed and now you want me to go look at this castle? C'mon now. It was frightening, haunting to say the least.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,912
    Wow thankyou for posting that! They touched my heart the only thing I have had happen even close was a gettysburg....I would love to go to Germany and see these places !! I would give anything !!

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    3,810
    Yeah it touched mine too. Wow.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    6,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    Yes I am well aware of that.

    A related story: I dunno if I mentioned it earlier, but when I was 17 I had the opportunity to go to Germany, and one of our stops was Dachau. The actual town was a quaint, cozy little German town, very green and well kept. It was hard to reconcile that a few miles away was a death factory. It meant a lot of me to see it, as my maternal grandfather was with the first group of U.S. soldiers to raid Dachau. It was eerie to walk the same gravel, see the same ovens, stand in the barracks, and know that all around you people had died. The nuns in the chapel suddenly rang bells and started singing it Latin, it was very ethereal and sad. There was a pretty little meadow, a park-like area, with a statue for all who had died there. There was a well dressed old gentleman with a cane sitting on one of the benches. When he saw that we were American tourists he came over and spoke with us. He had been imprisoned at Dachau from the time the camp had been opened until the time it was liberated. This was 1997, and he had returned to the concentration camp every single day since it's liberation. He had not missed a day. He had an air of grief about him that nothing would ever alleviate, and his eyes were haunted when we rolled up his shirtsleeve and showed us the tattoo of his 'prisoner number'.
    I don't know that Dachau, in the daylight, with a group of people, was a scary place, per se, but it had a heavy air of intense sadness and sorrow, the kind of sorrow that is screaming and unable to be stopped. It was like it wafted up from the very ground. Honestly, everything else we saw that day paled in comparison. I thought, you just took me to this horrible place where hundreds of thousands of people were killed and now you want me to go look at this castle? C'mon now. It was frightening, haunting to say the least.
    Lovely post, Nessa.

    I too; can feel the history and emotion of sacred places; sanctified by horror.

    How could that have ever happened? How could the Nazis actually consider other people "less than human"; thus what they were doing was "justified".

    Look at my own country (US) and the fact that; historically speaking; not too many years ago; it was considered proper to kidnap people from other lands; so as to buy and sell them like cattle. Again, these people had to be judged something "less than human" in order to justify.

    I have been a student of Hitler...not an admirer; mind you; but fascinated by the whole sad affair.

    Hitler of course; considered Americans to be a "mongrel" race, no "racial purity"; as he thought was so elemental to his "master race".

    I read once that the only thing Hitler admired about Americans; was our earlier governments' treatment of the Native Americans.

    He thought THAT was brilliant.

    A more damning indictment; I cannot imagine.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,003
    evil incarnate

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,029
    He was such a sick sick man. If there is a hell I am sure he is there.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    I too; can feel the history and emotion of sacred places; sanctified by horror.

    How could that have ever happened? How could the Nazis actually consider other people "less than human"; thus what they were doing was "justified".

    Look at my own country (US) and the fact that; historically speaking; not too many years ago; it was considered proper to kidnap people from other lands; so as to buy and sell them like cattle. Again, these people had to be judged something "less than human" in order to justify.

    I have been a student of Hitler...not an admirer; mind you; but fascinated by the whole sad affair.

    Hitler of course; considered Americans to be a "mongrel" race, no "racial purity"; as he thought was so elemental to his "master race".

    I read once that the only thing Hitler admired about Americans; was our earlier governments' treatment of the Native Americans.

    He thought THAT was brilliant.

    A more damning indictment; I cannot imagine.
    A lot of times America's past is conveniently 'forgotten,' which is as wrong as those why deny the Holocaust.

    A damning indictment - I couldn't have said it better.

    And these people call themselves human?

  23. #22
    they say the eyes are are a mirror to the soul .. if you look at his eyes they look evil,i wouldnt trust anyone with eyes like his


    COZY POWELL REMEMBERED

    http://cozypowell.webs.com/

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam, Sin City of the Netherlands
    Posts
    1,196
    My grandmother told me stories about the war. How afraid she was when there was an air raid and my father and his sisters and little brother were still outside playing. How in the last year of the war, there was a terribly cold winter and there was hardly any food left. This forced people to walk for miles and miles to farms far from the city to buy some potatoes. They even ate tulip bulbs, because there wasn't anything else. I remember my father telling me that he saw people literally drop dead because of starvation. How people chopped up every bit of wood from their house, just to make some fire.
    Some people just need a high five.... in the face.... with a chair...


  25. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    6,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Linnythepooh View Post
    My grandmother told me stories about the war. How afraid she was when there was an air raid and my father and his sisters and little brother were still outside playing. How in the last year of the war, there was a terribly cold winter and there was hardly any food left. This forced people to walk for miles and miles to farms far from the city to buy some potatoes. They even ate tulip bulbs, because there wasn't anything else. I remember my father telling me that he saw people literally drop dead because of starvation. How people chopped up every bit of wood from their house, just to make some fire.
    And they boiled the leather from their shoes to consume as food.

  26. #25
    <<There were some pictures recently discovered showing Mengele and some of his cohorts at a Nazi 'retreat' near Auschwitz...smiling, relaxed, seemingly "normal." (Sorry I'm having trouble remembering where I saw them and, as such, can't post them here until I remember)!>>


    That was in the New Yorker.

    Here is a slideshow of the photos: (they are not of victims)

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/2008...0317_wilkinson

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Home of the Flaming Koresh
    Posts
    1,598
    The thing that makes me even more sick about him is the youth that worship assholes like this poor excuse for a human.
    If Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why is there a song about him?


    Hag O' Death

  28. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Missouri City, Texas
    Posts
    238
    Just because of a difference in religion and skin color is no reason to put people through such torture. I hope Satan ass-raped those Nazi-bastards with his pitchfork
    You'd be well advised not to plan my funeral before the body dies...

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    7,243
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostyhead View Post
    <<There were some pictures recently discovered showing Mengele and some of his cohorts at a Nazi 'retreat' near Auschwitz...smiling, relaxed, seemingly "normal." (Sorry I'm having trouble remembering where I saw them and, as such, can't post them here until I remember)!>>


    That was in the New Yorker.

    Here is a slideshow of the photos: (they are not of victims)

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/2008...0317_wilkinson
    Thanks Ghosty for finding this, I subscribe to the New Yorker so it was pretty stupid of me to forget where I saw these pictures. Anyhow, this is the one I was referring to when mentioning the "banality of evil" (caption courtesy of the New Yorker):

    This photograph, taken at Auschwitz, shows ‚??nearly a hundred officers arrayed like a glee club up the side of a hill. The accordion player stands across the road,‚?Ě Alec Wilkinson writes. ‚??All the men are singing except those in the very front, who perhaps feel too important for it.‚?Ě The group includes Richard Baer; Rudolf Hoess, who had supervised the building of Auschwitz and had been its first commandant; and Josef Mengele, the doctor who performed infamous medical experiments on twins and other prisoners. This album contains eight pictures of Mengele‚??the only known photographs of him at Auschwitz.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	080317_r17170_p646.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	121.8 KB 
ID:	4785  



  30. #29
    The article is really fascinating. The photo album shows this whole other side of the camp (which had sections that were not devoted to death and torture. It is so chilling how those guys singing in that photo you posted look like normal nice guys. Sickening.

    I really really recommend the article. It is the mid March New Yorker.

  31. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,183
    What a sad twisted sick time..those poor people.

    May they rest in peace!




    -Morbid1

  32. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    toronto, canada ( Etobicoke)
    Posts
    5,013
    here is a newsreel from April 1945 of Generals Eisenhower, Patton and Bradley touring Auschwitz - you can see the sick look on Eisenhower's face. Patton, the no nonsense general, got physically ill and lost his lunch as reported in Eisenhower's bio.

    check at around 3:15 - you can see a German officer being forced to go inside the killing chambers.

    American prisoners of war were bascically starved to death. Eisenhower insisted on this film as a record of the atrocities. GRAPHIC !!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNPnoiDKhWo

  33. #32
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,665
    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    here is a newsreel from April 1945 of Generals Eisenhower, Patton and Bradley touring Auschwitz - you can see the sick look on Eisenhower's face. Patton, the no nonsense general, got physically ill and lost his lunch as reported in Eisenhower's bio.

    check at around 3:15 - you can see a German officer being forced to go inside the killing chambers.

    American prisoners of war were bascically starved to death. Eisenhower insisted on this film as a record of the atrocities. GRAPHIC !!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNPnoiDKhWo
    One of Ike's best moves. You know, WWII was the most photographed, most filmed war in history. You couldn't ask for better documentation of everything, from the mundane to the extreme. Yet there's a ton of sick people who claim the holocaust never happened.

    Loved the episode of Band of Brothers, when Easy Company liberated the camp at Landsberg. The German townsfolk were forced to bury the dead of the camp. True story.

  34. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,058
    has anyone read Darwin,Marx,Wagner by Jacques Barzun? He wrote this book in 1941. prescient.
    Last edited by midnitelamp; 05-23-2008 at 12:08 PM.

  35. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by rickenbacker View Post
    One of Ike's best moves. You know, WWII was the most photographed, most filmed war in history. You couldn't ask for better documentation of everything, from the mundane to the extreme. Yet there's a ton of sick people who claim the holocaust never happened.

    Loved the episode of Band of Brothers, when Easy Company liberated the camp at Landsberg. The German townsfolk were forced to bury the dead of the camp. True story.
    that episode was so powerful. Nessa, did your grandfather ever talk about Dachau?

  36. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    2,523
    read the books by simon wiesenthal, they are gut wrenching, insightful, and mind boggling. when i hear people say it never happened i can hardly believe it. thank god there are those of us old enuff to have known the survivors, and heard the stories. keep the memories going, don't let the memories die. we owe it to the six million...and their descendants.
    pull the string!

  37. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by hell0kitty View Post
    read the books by simon wiesenthal, they are gut wrenching, insightful, and mind boggling. when i hear people say it never happened i can hardly believe it. thank god there are those of us old enuff to have known the survivors, and heard the stories. keep the memories going, don't let the memories die. we owe it to the six million...and their descendants.
    My dad was a survivor. Unfortunately, where I lived as a kid, there was a lot of that denial going on, even condoned by teachers. No wonder I hate that area. My dad actually took it much better than I did, without losing his integrity. That says a lot to me. Thanks for your post.

  38. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    6,724
    Never happened?

    If only...

    How can any sane person claim that!

    Oh, wait...NO SANE PERSON CAN!!!

    This world must have been in perfect balance until we humans came along.

    Sure, other animals will kill you in order to eat you, but only we humans will kill you due to fear or jealousy, or envy, or greed.

    In spite of our "big brains", we are the lowest form of life on the planet...present company excepted.

  39. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Never happened?

    If only...

    How can any sane person claim that!

    Oh, wait...NO SANE PERSON CAN!!!

    This world must have been in perfect balance until we humans came along.

    Sure, other animals will kill you in order to eat you, but only we humans will kill you due to fear or jealousy, or envy, or greed.

    In spite of our "big brains", we are the lowest form of life on the planet...present company excepted.
    The scary thing was that these were every day people, teachers in school, neighbors, and all this in a small town in Germany where my parents worked for a while in the 70s so pretty close to actual events. An history teacher basically came out in class saying that the "number of Jews killed in the camps wasn't as high as they claimed" at which point the neo-Nazi in the class and his friends started cheering and no one else said a word. He wasn't the only one. What about homosexuals, Jehova's Witnesses, Gypsies and the several other groups we forgot. What also scares me is I met up with someone I knew from way back and she would of course never say anything negative about Jews but then starts making a big deal about Turks living there and let's not even get into her take on Africans.

    At least animals are honest, they just kill for food but not for torture. Funny, how when someone behaves like that, we start calling them an animal but human behavior is elevated to something extremely . . . well, almost godlike. It's like the minute you give someone free license to be as brutal as they can be, they will do that. Not all, but the percentage is too high.

  40. #39
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    691
    Every time I think of Mengele I think of the movie The Boys From Brazil with Gregory Peck playing him. It's really trippy seeing a really nice man playing such an evil monster.

    Anti-Jew sentiment was in place in Germany centuries before the era of Hitler. They were blamed for everything in the Middle Ages and I am sure that if they would have had the same technology back that was in place during Hitler's time they would have done the same thing. It's the whole ideology that is to blame and the fact that so many people bought into it is really sad and it says something about the dynamics of society.

  41. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,058
    most of the deniers "evidence" seems to come from a replica gas chamber built at one of the camps did not have a hole in the roof to drop the pellets. thus,this is why you see deniers tee shirts that proclaim "NO Hole,No Holocaust.

    Jacques Barzun whom i mentioned in a post above,is now 101. i wish i had been able to meet and study with him. i regret it actually.

  42. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Amsterdam, Sin City of the Netherlands
    Posts
    1,196
    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Never happened?

    If only...

    How can any sane person claim that!

    Oh, wait...NO SANE PERSON CAN!!!

    This world must have been in perfect balance until we humans came along.

    Sure, other animals will kill you in order to eat you, but only we humans will kill you due to fear or jealousy, or envy, or greed.

    In spite of our "big brains", we are the lowest form of life on the planet...present company excepted.
    My thoughts exactly!
    Some people just need a high five.... in the face.... with a chair...


  43. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    Quote Originally Posted by mrnorrischangestrains View Post
    that episode was so powerful. Nessa, did your grandfather ever talk about Dachau?

    No, unfortunately he didn't. I can imagine why. I didn't know the pictures existed until after his death, and I was not allowed to look at them until many years after that. Occasionally on TV I will see a photograph of the same places, just taken at a different angle from Grandpa's shots. It blows my mind completely to think about walking into such a thing.
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  44. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Tulsa, OK.
    Posts
    4,725
    This sounds crazy but sometimes I think satan can possess a person.

  45. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    6,724
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine74137 View Post
    This sounds crazy but sometimes I think satan can possess a person.
    That is not crazy, but I would add that sometimes people can embody Satan.

    Some, Satan seeks out.

    Others just fit into his plan and come to him and preach to us.

    The capacity for inhumanity by humans, towards humans, is just not understandable.

    We suck, as animals, because we have "big brains", and we don't think that we are simply surviving, we must dominate.

    The cat, scratching through the garbage, looking for food...has a higher moral compass than do we, as it is simply hungry, and we are envious.

    Bad, humans, BAD!

  46. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    749
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    No, unfortunately he didn't. I can imagine why. I didn't know the pictures existed until after his death, and I was not allowed to look at them until many years after that. Occasionally on TV I will see a photograph of the same places, just taken at a different angle from Grandpa's shots. It blows my mind completely to think about walking into such a thing.
    I can understand that, my dad was a survivor and he never talked about it either except to say that his parents died in Auschwitz and the Americans had liberated him and he always felt grateful for that. I'm the same with the photos, occasionally there'll be one on TV or in a book and it jars you completely.

  47. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    Quote Originally Posted by mrnorrischangestrains View Post
    I can understand that, my dad was a survivor and he never talked about it either except to say that his parents died in Auschwitz and the Americans had liberated him and he always felt grateful for that. I'm the same with the photos, occasionally there'll be one on TV or in a book and it jars you completely.
    I think it's something that we can never understand, because we never experienced it. I think it's something that would be with you every second of the rest of your life.

    Have you ever found a report on the Auschwitz liberation? I found the one for Dachau, and it was very informative and extremely disturbing. If you'd like to read it, I can PM you the link. It is far, far worse than what I could have imagined.

    I cannot imagine the strength and courage it took to go on living after having survived one of the death camps, or the Holocaust in general. I would not have made it, I don't think.

    My family and I have often thought of giving copies of the photos we have to the Jewish Anti-Defamation League or the Holocaust museum, they have never been seen by anyone other than family and very close friends. They're a part of history and should be seen by others. However, we're not there yet, I don't think. They're very personal, and they're kind of, to me at least, a piece of my grandpa that we can hold onto. He died when I was ten, so my memories of him aren't terribly detailed. I wish I had known him better and got the chance to talk about these things with him.
    Last edited by Nessa; 05-29-2008 at 12:29 AM.
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  48. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    1,314
    Nessa, what if you scanned them and donated the scanned copies?

  49. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, You know home of ESPN
    Posts
    9,168
    It's not often that I see something and just feel physically ill. This is one of them.........


    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  50. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,180
    Quote Originally Posted by BooMom View Post
    Nessa, what if you scanned them and donated the scanned copies?
    I think we will someday, it's just too personal for now. They're ours, they're kind of Grandpa's legacy, at least. Something of his that we alone can hold onto. For now.


    The other day my BF was watching 'Band of Brothers' on TV and it was an episode where they liberated a death camp. I turned in my chair to watch, and I ended up having to go in the bathroom and cry, it bothered me. I can handle the Momonas Assassinas pictures, I can handle Sharon Tate stabbed and bloody, I can handle crime scene and autopsy and death photos, but the photographs of the Holocause bother me in a way that nothing else does. It's not that the other photos don't generate an emotional response - of course they do - but the Holocaust photographs just get inside me somehow. There is so much pain in them. I almost can't look. But I do.
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  51. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    2,523
    Survivor guilt" is the term used to describe the feelings of those who, fortunately, emerge from a disaster which mortally engulfs others. On an irrational level, these individuals wince at their privileged escape from death's clutches. From a psychodynamic viewpoint, the Holocaust survivor's guilt may reflect constraints against the expression of rage toward the perpetrators of his misfortune, toward the Nazis and their collaborators, and toward parents who failed to provide protection from those torturous events. Instead of expressing rage outwardly, the survivor turns it upon himself. Guilt is the embodiment of anger directed toward the self.
    Survivor guilt may also motivate an individual to bear witness and to remember those who were murdered. The call to memory which many survivors answer has the salutary effect of educating others about the Holocaust and ensuring its victims are commemorated. However, survivor guilt also has the potential to compel an individual to remain mired in his past, to the relative exclusion of his present or future. Guilt is the penance one pays for the gift of survival.
    Survivor guilt is an integral aspect of the sketches of Holocaust survivors of many social scientists (Harel, Kahana and Kahana, 1984). However, I did not find this phenomenon to be quite so widespread as we have been led to believe. Perhaps I would have found a greater incidence of the phenomenon if I had met these survivors soon after the end of the war. It is terribly difficult to maintain an awareness of guilt feelings for such a protracted period, particularly when one is so motivated to move forward with one's life. Approximately one-half of those I interviewed articulated an uneasiness about their reprieve. The reasons for this discomfort varied.

    --from:Aaron Hass* ,California State University, Dominguez Hills, California
    pull the string!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •