Charles Manson & The Manson Murders

[Sam]

Good question, Sam. He had that "folksy" sound to him, while not a good singer, I've heard worse. Wonder if he would have been happy, and not ordered the murders. I've heard some of his music, nothing special. He may have gotten some fans, hard to say.

From what little I've heard, in a professional studio, background singers, and instruments, and a little "tweaking" he might have been really good!
Especially with all the sounds that came out in the late sixties and early seventies.
Can you imagine people now saying "Now here's a blast from the past, Charles Manson 1970 hit ________, from the soundtrack of the Sharon Tate film ___________."

[Hagitha]

If Charlie had gotten a recording contract, I think things would have turned out very differently. If he had a contract and actually made some money I don't believe Hinman would have ever happened, and IMO, if Hinman had never happened then neither would the rest of the murders. Lot's of what if's that for sure.

[Pamebabby]

If Charlie had gotten a recording contract, I think things would have turned out very differently. If he had a contract and actually made some money I don't believe Hinman would have ever happened, and IMO, if Hinman had never happened then neither would the rest of the murders. Lot's of what if's that for sure.

Good call, Hagitha. I agree with you.

[mrnorrischangestrains]

Yes. Though I can see him commissioning a few murders here and there, like the Marina Habe murder (though that was never really tied to him), something more low key so to speak. But the big names might have been spared, I totally agree with you guys there. Manson had an agenda of sorts, one that no sane person would ever (hope to) understand. I think no matter how successful he might have become, there would always be the feeling of being entitled to more. Somehow, murders were important to him.

Sam, I agree with you. I can't remember which song it was I listened to but I could see it being successful if tweaked properly. On a more random note. I also remember falling asleep to some music once and then waking up, thinking, what an incredibly unlikeable voice. Not saying it means anything, just wondering if anyone else might have felt it as well.

[Paulination]

Please don't take this the wrong way because I think Manson and his family were a bunch of murdering psychos, but I could listen to him speak for hours and I understand how his followers got sucked in.

One thing he preached that always stuck with me was his love of fear. As you all know, Manson always preached about being in the now. Tomorrow doesn't matter, yesterday doesn't matter only now. The perfect emotion for living in the now is fear. When you are terrified nothing else matters than that moment of time and your senses become so in tune with the moment.

Makes a little sense, don't you think?

[Sam]

Yes, when you feel all alone in the world, someone like Manson could certainly "pull you in".

[cindyt]

Please don't take this the wrong way because I think Manson and his family were a bunch of murdering psychos, but I could listen to him speak for hours and I understand how his followers got sucked in.

One thing he preached that always stuck with me was his love of fear. As you all know, Manson always preached about being in the now. Tomorrow doesn't matter, yesterday doesn't matter only now. The perfect emotion for living in the now is fear. When you are terrified nothing else matters than that moment of time and your senses become so in tune with the moment.

Makes a little sense, don't you think?

Yeah, original Charlie got this teaching from the Process Church.

[Pamebabby]

Manson is a charismatic speaker. Even now, I find him fascinating to listen to. Knowing he had knowledge of some of the Process techniques, stoned followers, and ass kissers, I can see where he could be put in the position he was in. I often wonder, had I been around him then, would I have been pulled into something that went out of control? I'll never know, and not sure I want to. But, I will say Manson has some type of personality that a person would like to know what goes on inside his head-where it all comes from.

[Andrea]

I think something bad would have happened even if Manson got a recording contract. What if the album flopped? You know he'd find someone other than himself to blame. I can hear it now: "you guys didn't give me enough PR"; "you guys are taking too much of my money"; "that wasn't the sound I was looking for";
etc. etc. etc. It would have been something.

Re Garretson, I really wish he would have been pressed more on why he was afraid that night. There had to have been a reason. And, if he was afraid why would he leave the back doors open? I agree with those who say he knows/saw a lot more than he said.

What's also somewhat strange is that none of the Manson people have said anything about him, that I know of, other than some vague statements by Krenwinkel re the guest house.

Andrea

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Manson was and is trouble--his murderous proclivities would have come out sooner or later no matter the circumstances. If it wouldn't have been the Tate/LaBiancas in 1969 it would have been someone else in 1970 or '75 or '83 or even now. The man is pure unadulterated evil and I just can't see that 'going away' because of a brief stint of artistic success.

Personally, I have a hard time listening to him rant, rave & ramble--mostly because I feel he isn't in the least bit insane and it's all an act. There's not one word of truth or reality in any of his childish spouting of pure nonsense. He makes me physically ill and I wouldn't trust him out of prison if he lives to be 150.

[Hippo]

To Jack-O-Lantern:

There was a documentary on Manson which aired on MSNBC. It was two people--a journalist and an FBI profiler watching clips of Manson on videotape, and then commenting. No one else was interviewed, and no other clips were shown. It was quite good.

I thought Manson was all over the place, but the lady profiler said, "he really doesn't have much going on," meaning that he was repeating the same three or four ideas over and over in different ways. Now, this was interesting to me, because I hadn't realized that until she said it. I don't have the documentary on tape or DVD, but I remember that two of the things she said was that he talks a lot about the environment to try to convince people that he's a nice guy, and he talks about other people's culpability while refusing to admit any of his own.

She said that he is not crazy, but he does suffer from some delusions. So I am not exactly sure how much he is in touch with reality, and how much he is BS-ing people.

I would have no interest in having a conversation with him; it would be a waste of time.

Although, I will say that, if I had met him in the 1960s when I was a teenager, I would have thought that he was very profound. I would not have understood what he was saying, and I would have thought that it meant that he was much smarter than I am.

[punklove]

Blue Sandra Good ATWA Message Charles Manson Family Member Speaks the ATWA TRUTH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJdmnBFnUD4
Sandra is one scary girl!




Susan Atkins 11th Parole Board Footage The Manson Family Killer Sharon Tate
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwDYAvNPvYw
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR4T4qTamy0
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3shyN9Oa20



Susan Atkins and Charles Manson together in 1970-71 Raw Courtroom Footage Channel 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAJLn7jAELs


Susan Atkins raw footage 1969 Manson Family Killer courthouse Los Angeles SADIE Mae Glutz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ9oN...eature=related


Gary Hinnman Sister Interviewed the day of Bobby Beausoleil Death Penalty Verdicts "Manson Family"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NqScOxrjck


George Spahn Interviewed in truck on Spahn Ranch Burning Down the night before Channel 2 Los Angeles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEyOF82Mdb0


Manson Family Girls Interviewed Downtown Los Angeles Courthouse Corner 1970 Shorly after verdicts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNRZwjc0ojU


Howard Stern Interviews Charles Manson Family Friend "A Friend of the Family"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lktlua6iW0

Charles Manson Family The History Channel segment on the Murder of Sharon Tate Hollywood crimes (GRAPIC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suXVv7tY1Rs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nPEqh6Yjuo

[punklove]

Young Jay Sebring.




Jay.


Jay with his porshe

[punklove]

Margaret DiMaria, sister of slain Manson victim Jay Sebring.


Jay taking sharons photo.

[punklove]

[Falcon25]

Sebring reminds me of James Franco.

[charlesmansonsbabygirl]

always felt bad for Steve Parent. Death picture:

This just pisses me off! A young kid, a whole life ahead of him, dead. But i still will debate that tex was brainwashed by chuck.

Pulling out the driveway at the most 'deadly time. And its always about sharon. This boy took a wrong turn, And any of us can any day.

[charlesmansonsbabygirl]

Manson was and is trouble--his murderous proclivities would have come out sooner or later no matter the circumstances. If it wouldn't have been the Tate/LaBiancas in 1969 it would have been someone else in 1970 or '75 or '83 or even now. The man is pure unadulterated evil and I just can't see that 'going away' because of a brief stint of artistic success.

Personally, I have a hard time listening to him rant, rave & ramble--mostly because I feel he isn't in the least bit insane and it's all an act. There's not one word of truth or reality in any of his childish spouting of pure nonsense. He makes me physically ill and I wouldn't trust him out of prison if he lives to be 150.

Jack, member i said u were my fav poster?

So correct! If it wasnt the '69 murders it would have been in chucks future, BUT....he would use others to do it.

CM aint no dummy! Hes a CULT leader,skilled in mind control and manipulation and his victims were his flock too.

[Andrea]

Jack-O-Lantern I too can hardly stand the Manson interviews. They're all the same and it's always "I didn't kill anybody!" It's like a script.

Punklove --- I've always loved that picture of Jay standing next to his Porsche --- very sexy!

[GuiltyLittleDeathHag]

Discuss.

Was he a product of his bad childhood? His prostitute mother once sold him for a pitcher of beer. He was passed around and no one wanted him. Boys Town kicked him out. He was raped in prison.

Personally, I have not one speck of pity for this fucker. Lots of kids have a hellish childhood but do not kill. I give you Dean Koontz, who's parents were rabid boozers, yet look where Dean is today. No matter what you come from, there is a line there where you should make your own decissions, where you wallow in the past and terrorize the future or you lift yourself up by the bootstrings and take a higher course. Charles Manson knew right from wrong and he chose the wrong path.

I really like this sort of topic because I am working on my second degree in psych. I do think that childhood plays a factor for sure in why he turned out as he did, but that doesn't mean I feel sorry for him either. In psychology we learn about resiliency, some kids can make it out of a bad environment and still lead normal, healthy, productive lives, others don't make it. However, if someone comes from a messed up childhood and has problems, like addiction, or low self esteem etc., I tend to feel sorry for them, but when you start killing people, I think we all lose our sympathy. While it's still sad that any kid went through all that, and maybe the system could have intervened long before his psychopathy was cemented, ultimately, we all have to take at least some level of responsibility for our lives and actions and he should never be released, he will always be a danger, even if he's too old to do anything himself, God knows he can win over a new generation who'd like to copy-cat the past for their own 15 minutes. He's just psycho and dangerous.

[Crabby Appleton]

There's a docu-drama on Manson on the History channel right now, I just stumbled upon it - haven't seen this one before. It repeats at midnight Eastern time.

[midnitelamp]

while storing stuff,i found a book, 5 To Die,by jerry LeBlanc and ivor davis,Holloway Hse. Pub.,1970.

the single most impressive part of this book,is it went to print after indicments,but before a verdict. it contains a remarkable amount of pertinent information. these guys had to book,so to speak.

i have'nt read it thru again,but what i have read is essentialy the story we know.

one thing though. garretson claims here,he stayed up till 05:30,writing letters and listening to "stereophonic records".

[punklove]

Yeah, Shes sexy sadie.

[Roaming Tigress]

I keep coming to this thread, thinking Charles Manson finally kicked the bucket.

[punklove]

Jay


clothed full body photo of Jay in morgue - graphic
http://www.documentingreality.com/fo...rime-20073.jpg

OOOOH my god. Very very very clear picture of Jay.. I have NO idea how they had an open casket. Wow. VERY graphic.

http://www.documentingreality.com/fo...ay-20color.jpg

http://www.documentingreality.com/fo...rime-20070.jpg

[punklove]

[punklove]

[punklove]

Jay






[SIZE=2]Jay, JoAnne Woodward & Paul Newman[/SIZE]

[punklove]

Jay styling Robert Wagner on the set


Jay styling James Garner at shop


Jay styling Cliff Robertson for his role as "J.F.K.".

[punklove]

Steven Parent

Friends carried Steven's casket out of the Church of the Nativity in El Monte, Calif., after his Catholic funeral held there on Aug. 14, 1969. "Steven was a credit to his family, to his parish and to his school," eulogized Rev. Paul L. Peterson. (LA Times photo by Ray Graham)

His grave... Someone should clean it off.

[punklove]

Steven Parent

Pictured with the Key Club. Steve is second from the right in the bottom row.


Pictured with the Arroyo Choir


Arroyo Choir, Steve is on the top left.

[punklove]

Steven Parent

1967 Sophomore class picture



1966 Freshmen class picture

[punklove]

Voytec and his first wife.

[punklove]

Jay - far right.

[punklove]

voytec






Roman Polański, Henryk Kluba, Wojciech Frykowski, Michał Żołnierkiewicz and Andrzej Kondratiuk

[punklove]

Born in ŁÃ³dź, Poland to Jan and Teofila Frykowski, Wojciech grew up in a wealthy, well-known family and was educated exclusively at the film school in Poland. He had two younger brothers Jerry and Matt. His parents owned a small textile factory in their hometown of ŁÃ³dź. His younger brother Jerzy "Jerry" Frykowski is a movie producer well known in Central Europe. In the late 1950s Frykowski was married to his first wife Eva and soon after she gave birth to their only son Bartłomiej "Bartek" Frykowski, who was born in 1959. The couple eventually divorced, and Frykowski's ex-wife and son moved west to Paris, France.

In 1963 in Zakopane, Poland he married famous Polish song writer and author Agnieszka Osiecka. The couple divorced a year later and together they had no children. In his early years, Frykowski was a very close friend and financier of film director Roman Polański and played the part of a thief in one of Polanski's early Polish-made short films, Mammals, in 1962. In 1966, Frykowski moved to France, then a year later to the United States in the hope of furthering his writing career, but was not successful.
Relationship

Frykowski was involved in a relationship with an American coffee heiress Abigail Folger. The couple met in New York City in December 1967, when Folger was introduced to him by his old friend, author Jerzy Kosiński. She gave Frykowski a tour of New York and their friendship began. At the time he had little command of English, but like Folger he was fluent in French. Their relationship developed as she taught him English.

According to Roman Polanski's 1984 autobiography, Folger was very good to Frykowski, paying all of the couple's living expenses at the time. After living together for several months in her New York City apartment, the couple eventually decided to move west to Southern California. Frykowski wanted to get back financially on his feet hoping that Polanski would get him a job in a movie industry, while Folger wanted to be a social worker. In August 1968 they arrived in Los Angeles County, and they rented their first hilltop house on Woodstock drive, in a wealthy section of Hollywood Hills, just off Mulholland Drive in Los Angeles. Their neighbor was famous singer Cass Elliot. Frykowski then introduced Folger to Roman Polanski and his wife, actress Sharon Tate. Through the Polanskis, the couple met celebrity hairdresser Jay Sebring and other people from their circle.
The couple had been taking care of the Polanski residence since April 1, 1969 when Polanski's had left for London, England to work on two different film projects. On July 20, 1969 right after Sharon returned home, Frykowski and Folger agreed to remain at 10050 Cielo Drive with Tate, who was eight months pregnant, until Polański returned from Europe. Polanski was expected to return to California on August 12, 1969. On August 6, Frykowski and Folger attended a birthday party thrown by movie producer Michael Sarne in his Malibu, California beach home. On August 8, 1969 a few hours before their death Frykowski and Folger ran some errands together, and later that evening they joined Tate and Sebring for late dinner at the Mexican restaurant "El Coyote" on Beverly Boulevard in Los Angeles. After dinner, the group returned to the Polanski residence, where Frykowski fell asleep on the couch in the living room and Folger went to her bedroom to read a book.

In the early morning hours of August 9, 1969 just after midnight, Frykowski and Folger were murdered, along with Sharon Tate, Jay Sebring and Steven Parent by members of Charles Manson's "Family" who broke into the Polanski residence at 10050 Cielo Drive in Beverly Hills, California. Frykowski was shot twice, struck thirteen times over the head with a blunt object and stabbed in total 51 times. According to his killers â?? Charles "Tex" Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel and Susan Atkins â?? Frykowski fought very hard for his life and for the lives of other victims. During the fight with their assailants, Frykowski and Folger escaped the house only to be overwhelmed and stabbed to death. Their bodies were discovered the next day by Tate's housekeeper, resting not far from each other on a front lawn of the property.

Frykowski's body was cremated on August 22, 1969 in Los Angeles, California. After a private memorial his remains were claimed by his Polish relatives and buried in the St. Joseph's Catholic Cemetery in his native ŁÃ³dź, Poland.

[punklove]

.

[punklove]

After marrying tex watson.

[punklove]

Susan, Leno and rosemary.

[punklove]

Young Leno


Young Leno

[punklove]

Aerial view of the home of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca in the Silverlake area.

[punklove]

Susan


Susan

[punklove]

Susan


linda

[punklove]

[SIZE=2]Jay, JoAnne Woodward & Paul Newman



Jay styling Robert Wagner on the set


Jay styling James Garner at shop[/SIZE]

[punklove]

haha, I was just looking for photos of jay and found his website..

http://www.sebringintl.com/about_jay.htm

And booooy what a faux pas!!! If you right click on the page to save a photo it says "Sorry, charlie, that function is disabled"

Yeah, Sorry charlie! They should change that.

[Sam]

How could that MISERABLE BITCH ever smile after what she did?

[punklove]

She had craaaaazy eyes. I love how smug she looks, like shes proud of what she did.

[Hagitha]

Good question she does look way too happy that's for sure. No conscience I guess.

Thanks Punklove for all the rare photos. Great stuff.

[punklove]

This photo reallllllly freaks me out!!! Shes doing the weird hand sign thing too.

[Hagitha]

Freaky is a good word for it that is one scary bitch.