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Thread: Charles Manson & The Manson Murders

  1. #351
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    A And he brought her up there several other times, you know, on Thursday when his wife lets him go out.
    Q How about his brother?
    A Well, his brother has never-been up there.
    Q He doesn't use your pad?
    A Well, he parked on the side of that gate and, you know, I came out and I see him parked outside of the gate before with a girl or something; that's it.
    Q Why does he come up there to park?
    A Well, he only did a few times. About twice.
    Q Why?
    A I don't know. It's quiet there and everything.
    Q You have seen him there?
    A Yeah, I seen him there once--well, I seen him there once, and he said he's been up there before; and he's also married.
    Page 15
    Q What kind of a car does he have?
    A A Mustang.
    Q He was in his Mustang with a girl out by the gate?
    A Well, no, nothing--not that night.
    Q No, but he has; that's when you saw him?
    A Yes.
    Q He's never asked to use your pad?
    A No.
    Q But his brother has? Has used it?
    A Well, he asked me if he could bring his girl up, you know, and I said, "Yeah." And I had him buy me some beer, you know, and I just sat in the living room and drank beer and listened to the stereo.
    Q How long were they there?
    A They were there for about--maybe two hours.
    Q Okay, now what's brought you here today. Now, tell me what you know, what you heard, what you believe, what has occurred; and you know that what you tell me, I'm going to in effect determine whether or not you're truthful.
    A Yes.
    Q With this test.
    A Yes.
    Q I hope you are truthful with me.
    A Yes.
    Q Tell me everything you can think of, even something
    Page 16
    like this bit here, well, one guy's married and he brings his girl friend up to your pad. It may or may not fit in. I don't know. All I'm saying is tell me and don't hold things back like that because they're going to bother you, and then we re going to have to dig them out.
    A Yes.
    Q You know what I mean, they're just going to create some problems, and I'm--I can say that when they create problems, it makes my job more difficult and I like to work as less as--as little as possible; so if you tell me a truthful story now, then this is going to show you're truthful and that's about the end of it. But if you hold things back, then it's going to make my job more difficult. So tell me what you know, what you've heard, what you suspect what's happened.
    A You mean what happened the night of--
    Q All of it, from the beginning to end as best you know.
    A Okay, well, I--well, I stayed at home, you see, that whole day.
    Q I can't--I can't hear you.
    A I stayed at home that whole day.
    Q That whole day?
    A That was Friday. I stayed home.

  2. #352
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    Q Okay, this is Sunday; you're speaking of last Friday?
    Page 17
    A Yes.
    Q Okay, you stayed around the house all day Friday. This is after what, Dave and his girlfriend had spent the night, part of the night?
    A They didn't spend the night; they spent two hours there, you know, Thursday night.
    Q What time did they leave?
    A About 12:30, one o'clock.
    Q Early Friday morning they left?
    A Yes.
    Q Okay, go on.
    A Then, well anyway, I got sick that night, Thursday, because I was drinking that beer and I really got sick; and Mr. Altabelli called Thursday night, you know. And so I stayed home all day Friday, and I cleaned up the house a little bit and did the dishes and everything; and they came around about 8:30, nine o'clock, somewhere around there. And I went to go get something to eat, and I went down on the Strip;I had something down there, and I could see her light all the way down from Cielo--not Cielo, but Benedict Canyon, all the way down to the Strip.(what?)Then I went to Turner's Drug Store; I got a TV dinner and a coke and a pack of cigarettes, and I don't know if I got any gum or not. I know I got that, and I stayed on the Strip for, you know, I just walked--well, before I got that, I walked down, you know, walked down once and walked back up, you know, and
    Page 18
    usually the same thing, nothing worth saying; so I got that stuff, then I hitchhiked back up to--I hitchhiked back up-all the way up to Benedict, Benedict Canyon from Sunset, and then I stayed on Benedict Canyon. I hitchhiked up to Cielo, then I walked--you know, I had to walk all the way up Cielo to Bella to get to my place, up the hill, and I just went there and I think maybe ten o'clock I got there, maybe later; I don't know. You know, I wasn't paying too much about it. It was around probably more than likely about ten o'clock, and I watched some TV, not very much; and I watched some show about some woman and some lover-- I wasn't paying too much attention to it, and I put the TV dinner in the oven, and then while, you know, that was cooking, you know, I was eating some potato chips and drinking all that pop I was watching TV a little bit. And about a quarter of twelve or something like that, Steve came up and, you know, he brought his radio with him. He had a radio, clock radio; and I didn't expect him or anything, and he came up and asked me how I've been and everything, you know, and I told him all right. And he asked me if I had been living by myself and everything; and I said, "Yeah," and he asked me who the two girls were inside the main house, and I told him, you know, there was Mrs. Polanski and Abigail Folger. And he went into a big thing, you know, who are they and all that bit, and I had to explain to him. And so he called somebody. I gave him a beer--a can of Budweiser. I asked
    Page 19
    him if he wanted a beer and he drank it, and then--then he called somebody--and somebody on Santa Monica and Doheny, and he said that he would be going there, and so then he left and, you know, that's when--after I ate my TV dinner afterwards and everything after he was gone, and then that's, the last time I saw him.
    Q Huh?
    A That's the last time I saw him until they came and got me.
    Q The last time you what?
    A Saw Steve.
    Q Steve?
    A Yes.
    Q Until when?
    A Until that morning or next day. About eleven o'clock.
    Q Go on.
    A And that was it. Well, I just--I just stayed inside the house and everything; and I was kind of scared that night. I don't know why, you know, I was kind of scared, and I stayed in the house and everything, and I started to write letters, you know. I started to write some letters to Darrell Kistler and ask him when he was going to come down and visit me and everything. And I--I tried to call--I wanted to know what time it was because, you know, I had quite--you know, Christopher had barked that night

  3. #353
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    Page 20
    and everything else, and I wanted to know what time it was. And just before, you know, it got daylight, I called the time and then, you know, I found out the phone was dead and then I went to the room and got another phone, and I plugged it into the wall, and then, you know, to--and there was nothing, and so then I really got kind of worried then, you know, what happened and wasn't giving it too much thought. It wasn't daylight yet because, you know, it was still dark. But it was just beginning to get daylight. And I got kind of, you know, I really got kind of scared then, and then I stayed up until it did get daylight; and when it did get daylight, then I went to sleep and the next thing I knew I woke up and there was an officer pointing a gun at me.(Later he says the dog woke him up and he walked to the door and then the cop had the gun on him)
    Q What?
    A Another officer came with a rifle and he had it pointed at me, and one of them kicked down the door and that's when Christopher started barking and everything, and they grabbed me and took me out, you know, by the patio and took me down against the wall and handcuffed me, and that was when I kept asking them what was the matter, and they said they'd show me. That's when, you know, we crossed the front yard and I seen these bodies.
    Q You saw what?
    A These bodies.
    Q What did you see?


    Page 21
    A Well, first I thought it was the maid. I thought the first body I seen was the maid. Now, I've seen everything, and then, you know, they kept walking and they had their arms, you know, taking me along and I seen the other one. And I got to the car and that was when I seen it was Steve's car, and they found him in his car.
    Q You saw Steve's car?
    A Yes, and his body was in it. (His=Steve‚??s Body in the car)
    Q His what?
    A His body was in it.
    Q You saw that?
    A Yes.
    Q And it was Steve?
    A I don't know. I really didn't see that clearly. I didn't take that good a look. I just seen the body. (Now he doesn‚??t know it was Steves body?)
    Q You saw a body in it, it could be anybody?
    A Yes.
    Q It was Steve's car? You know this?
    A Yes.
    Q It was Steve's car?
    A Uh huh. It's really--
    Q Huh?
    A It's really frightening.
    Q Frightening?
    A Yeah.
    Q Now, what do you know from what you've heard; what
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    you've been told has occurred there?
    A Well, see, well they threw some parties there before, you know--I mean, maybe--well, they threw a large party one time. There's Abigail Folger and young Polanski, and they had quite a few people there. There was cars parked all the way down Bella, and they had a band there, you know, and they had ten cases of champagne; they had beer and they had about three car--three parking lot attendants parking cars, and then about--I don't know how many people serving drinks and everything. Because that's the only, you know, great big party they've had--they had while Mrs. Polanski and Mr. Polanski were in Europe. And then when they got back--I mean when Mrs.

  4. #354
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    Polanski got back, they--I seen--well, maybe one time there was probably about ten cars there, a real small party they had. And that's as far as I know there was parties going on there. That was it. Then that night, you know, they didn't have any party or anything--not that I know of.
    Q Did they invite you to the parties?
    A None.
    Q Why not?
    A I don't know. Well, actually they didn't know me or anything. I don't see why they should.
    Q Did you talk to them during the daytime when they were sitting around the pool, or did you go around the pool and swim when they were there?
    Page 23
    A I swim one--I swim there a few times when they were there but not very often.
    Q Talk with them? Friendly?
    A Yes, but not very often. I very seldom I ever spoke to them.
    Q Now, again, what has happened? What did happen when Steve left?
    A That was it. That's all I know. (Its not all he knows, He goes on to tell loads of details about the event)
    Q As far as you know now, what has happened?
    A Yes. When he left, that was it.
    Q Well, you saw three bodies?
    A Yes.
    Q Is that it?
    A Yes.
    Q There are no more involved?
    A That was it as far as--well, then I heard later on
    Q That's what I want to know.
    A Yeah, I heard later on from my attorney that there was two bodies hanging in the room or something. I don't know. That was what he said. He said he shouldn't even be telling me, but he told me or something.
    Q That makes five?
    A That's what I heard from a detective down there that there was five bodies slain or something.
    Q How were they killed?
    A I don't know. Well, I heard Steve was shot.
    Page 24 (missing from the original copy)
    Page 25
    Q Where you live?
    A Yes.
    Q Your front door? How many doors enter into that place?
    A Four.
    Q Four?
    A There's four. There's a back door, and there's a door where the dogs' room is, and there is a door into the back yard in back, and then there is a door where they'd come in. (Who‚??s they? Who was he afraid would come through that door?)
    Q During this--after Steve left, Christopher barks?
    A Well, he barked when Steve was there, too.
    Q Well does he usually just bark?
    A Not unless somebody's--somebody's around.
    Q Around where?
    A Around the house or something.
    Q Okay, Steve was there and Christopher was nervous and barking; is that it?
    A Well, he barked then, and then Steve says, "What's the matter with Christopher?" And I said, "Oh, I don't know, he usually barks." (He usually barks? Or he only barks when someone is around?)
    Q Okay, did he bark when Steve arrived?
    A Yes.

  5. #355
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    Q Did you know that Steve--that somebody was coming before Steve walked in and knocked on the door?
    A Yes.
    Page 26
    Q Because Christopher was barking?
    A Yes, and then when Steve was in the house, Christopher was barking some more.
    Q Some more?
    A Yes, and then when he left. You know, that was it; and then later on he started barking at something.
    Q Now, what about--a door handle; what do you mean?
    A Well, I was writing the letters on the couch and Christopher started barking, you know. I didn't pay any attention and then I looked up and the door knob was turned
    Q What do you mean?
    A Well, it's one of these, you know, you'd have to see it. It sticks out like this. It was one of these kind of a--well, you know, on the outside it's a regular door knob
    Q Yes.
    A And on the inside, you know, it's like a stick or something.
    Q It's a handle?
    A Yes.
    Q But it is a square--bar handle?
    A Yeah, a bar handle.
    Q Okay, what about it?
    A It was turned, you know, down.
    Q What does that mean?
    A I don't know what it meant, you know, it wasn't like that before. As far as I know. I mean, you know,
    Page 27
    Christopher is barking and everything, and I looked up and nothing is there, and the door handle is turned.
    Q Did it move while you're looking at it or just is in a different position?
    A It was just in a different position.
    Q Is that the unlocked position, down?
    A No, well, I had the doors locked. (If he had the door locked and that wasn‚??t the locked/unlocked position how is it that the door knob was pointing down? He seems to imply that perhaps someones hand was on it, If that were true the knob wouldn‚??t go all the way down if the door was locked.)
    Q Is there a slide bolt or something that locks the door beside this door handle?
    A No, see there's a lock that you turn, you know, and it locks the door and that's it.
    Q Well, tell me what it meant to you when you looked and saw the door handle was down?
    A It just kind of frightened me a little bit; that was it. (Why?)
    Q Well, what position is the door handle normally in?
    A Well, it's usually straight across.
    Q Okay, is this the door Steve left out of?
    A Yes.
    Q And did you close that door when he left?
    A When he left? Yes.
    Q You closed it and locked it?
    A I don't--I locked it, yes. (Did you lock it or don‚??t you remember?)
    Q You didn't remember--you don't remember messing with the door handle, or was it in the horizontal position
    Page 28
    then, or what?
    A I don't--I don't actually remember. (Ok you don‚??t remember‚?¶ )
    Q So it could have been down when Steve left?

  6. #356
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    A Yes, but I shut the door and then I locked it--I don't know if I shut it or not, but I know I locked the door.(Ok so you DO remember locking the door ‚?? How is it possible to lock a door that you aren‚??t sure you closed?)
    Q All right. When Steve leaves, what do you do? Do you walk out to the car with him, say good night?
    A No.
    Q Why not?
    A I never do when somebody leaves, you know, that comes around, walk out of the house with them.
    Q You left right--left him at the front door?
    A Yes.
    Q Did he say anything; that he was going to stop by and talk to the people at the house?
    A No, he didn't say anything like that.
    Q But he asked you questions about them?
    A Yes, he asked me questions about them.
    Q All right, Steve's aware there's people in the house?
    A Yes.
    Q He asks you who are the two ladies--how does he know there's two ladies in the house?
    A He saw them when he came in.
    Q How does he see them? I haven't been there. You
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    tell me how he sees them.
    A Well, I don't know how he saw them but I mean, you know, you walk down the path when, you know, you come back to the guest house. You don't go across the front yard or anything; and he said that there was two ladies over there in the main house. There was a great big window you could probably see them through that.
    Q Uh huh.
    A That's how--probably how he saw them.
    Q When you went out and came back with your TV dinner, did you see them there?
    A No.
    Q What did you see?
    A I didn't see anything. I just seen the cars there, around seven.
    Q There were cars there?
    A Yes.
    Q What did you hear?
    A I didn't hear anything.
    Q And you didn't see anything?
    A Yes. (This answer should have been NO.
    ‚??You didn‚??t see anything?‚?Ě No, I didn‚??t see anything.. This ‚??Yes‚?? answer could have given a misleading honest result. )
    Q But Steve did?
    A Well, he seen the two girls, and he asked me who they were.
    Q Did you know they were there?
    A Well, they are always usually at night.
    Page 30
    Q But you didn't see them when you came back? Why not?
    A Well, I don't make it a habit to looking in their window or anything.
    Q Well, you don't deliberately turn the other way, do you?
    A Well, the--well, I just walk down the path. (again he starts to seemingly give another answer, then replaces it with a non answer and isn‚??t pushed as to what he meant)
    Q All right. In the time that you have been there, and the time that Tate or Polanski, whatever the name she goes by, has been back from Europe?
    A Yes.
    Q And you've been walking by this house every time you go out?
    A Yes.
    Q What--

  7. #357
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    A Well, sometimes I can look in that direction, they might be in the front room, you know, it's hard to say but I didn't see them that night.
    Q What have you seen in that house, ever? More particularly since she's been back from Europe that is unusual, unique, different, or has attracted your attention?
    A Uhm, well, that Porsche--that black Porsche is usually parked there. That was about it.
    Q Who owns the black Porsche?
    A I don't have the slightest idea who owns the black Porsche.

    Page 31
    Q Was it there last night?
    A What do you mean, last night?
    Q Well, I don't know. You say the black Porsche is unusual. What do you mean by that?
    A Well, it is usually almost every night. But not every night. I wouldn't say every night, but it was up there quite a bit. (Again with the conflicting statements, which could provide a false truthful response)
    Q Was it there last night; was it there Friday night when you went to Sunset and got your--
    A Well, when I left, I don't know whether it was there or not; and when I came back, I think it might have been there, I don't know. I don't pay that close attention.
    Q Did Steve ask you about the cars?
    A No, he didn't ask me.
    Q What cars did you see parked there when you came back Friday?
    A I know I seen a Camaro that was in the garage, and then I seen a Firebird, but I can't remember if I seen a Porsche or not but I think it might have been there.
    Q Well, where did all these people come from? Steve knew there were two women there.
    A Yes.
    Q You say you didn't see anybody and yet we know now there was at least five, right?
    A Yes.
    Q Well, where did they all come from?
    Page 32
    A Well, there's two live here, the two girls. There's Mrs. Polanski and Abigail. Well, you know, they live there; and the younger Polanski, he lives there. It's, you know, that automatic three that lives there, and the one that came up, you know, in this Porsche, and he must have been just visiting or something; but I don't remember if this Porsche was there when I came out. You know, it might have been I might have seen it; I don't know.
    Q Go on.
    A And then anyway, you know, the ones in the house and everything. Then Steve came, you know, later on, and he asked me who the two girls were in the house. He must have looked in the window, I mean, walking down the path because, you know, you see if anybody was there. (So YOU Don‚??t see if anyone is in the home but if someone is walking down the path you have to see into the house? Which is it?)
    Q What did he say about them other than who are the two broads? Did he say anything?
    A He says, "Who are they?" and then he, you know, he wanted me to get in a big deal who they were; and I told him that one was Polanski's--the younger Polanski's girl friend--and the other one, you know, was Polanski's wife, and then it just got all mixed up and everything and he wanted, you know, he says, "Polanski has a girl friend and a wife?" I says, "No, the younger Polanski has a girl friend, and the other one's the older Polanski's wife." And everything--finally, I got it straight to him.
    Q Did he say anything about you had good-looking
    Page 33
    chicks or --
    A Yeah, I said, "They're good."
    Q What else did he say? To indicate what he saw?
    A That was it.
    Q Did he ask who the fellows were?
    A No, he didn't ask me who they were.
    Q Talk about them?

  8. #358
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    A No, he didn't talk about them.
    Q When it got daylight, and you went outside?
    A No.
    Q You stayed inside?
    A Yes.
    Q When it got daylight, you went to sleep?
    A Yes.
    Q Why?
    A I don't know. I just wanted to‚?? (again being interrupted mid answer by the person giving the test)
    Q All night you were worried and it becomes daylight and all you do is go to sleep; you don't go out and see if there's anything that caused the trouble or anything that might have turned the door knob or anything like this; you just go to sleep?
    A Yes, I didn't go outside.
    Q Why not?
    A Well, I would have probably went out later on at noon when I usually wake up. I usually wake up around one o'clock or 1:30 and go see if my mail's there.
    Page 34
    Q Christopher let you know the police were coming?
    A Yes.
    Q He started barking?
    A Yes, so I got up. (Above he says that he was sleeping and the police woke him)
    Q How did you rip your britches?(Good question.)
    A I ripped them when they handcuffed me.
    Q How did you rip them?
    A That's it. When they--well, they took me out of the--you know, out of the house and took me onto the patio and then they handcuffed--put my hands behind my back and handcuffed me, and I kept asking them what was the matter and they said, "We'll show you," and I thought something was really wrong then when they said that.(Again no answer the question given; How did you rip your ‚??britches‚??)
    Q Okay, other than a black Porsche being around there that you think is unusual--and I don't know why you think that is unusual.
    A Well, he's usually there and I don't know why you said that--anything unusual. I said that it's usually there every night. I don't know if you'd say it's unusual or not.
    Q Well, what else? When they're having these parties, do you stand up on your porch or window and look down at the party at the pool, or what?
    A No, you can't. It's level with it. You know, it's on a foundation and everything. (Comes into play later in the polygraph)
    Q What have you seen going on there that is different?
    Page 35
    A I never seen,-well, that night?
    Q Any time?
    A Oh, maybe one time I seen that--I don't know, I--I was asleep and I woke up, and that was when Darrell was living there and those two girls were staying that night, and they were over in the pool swimming and I went over there and they said that they'd seen Polk (phonetic)--Sharon wasn't there yet, I don't think, on mescaline--that somebody was on mescaline or something.
    Q I didn't hear you.
    A Somebody was on mescaline or something that lived in the main house. That was what they told me.
    Q How would they know this?
    A They said that they told 'em.~
    Q They told them? What do you mean?
    A They told them that they were on mescaline or something.
    Q Someone that was in the main house told the two girls that were visiting you that?
    A Yeah, yeah, and that they are on mescaline or something--I don't know.
    Q What did this mean to you?

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    A No, he didn't talk about them.
    Q When it got daylight, and you went outside?
    A No.
    Q You stayed inside?
    A Yes.
    Q When it got daylight, you went to sleep?
    A Yes.
    Q Why?
    A I don't know. I just wanted to‚?? (again being interrupted mid answer by the person giving the test)
    Q All night you were worried and it becomes daylight and all you do is go to sleep; you don't go out and see if there's anything that caused the trouble or anything that might have turned the door knob or anything like this; you just go to sleep?
    A Yes, I didn't go outside.
    Q Why not?
    A Well, I would have probably went out later on at noon when I usually wake up. I usually wake up around one o'clock or 1:30 and go see if my mail's there.
    Page 34
    Q Christopher let you know the police were coming?
    A Yes.
    Q He started barking?
    A Yes, so I got up. (Above he says that he was sleeping and the police woke him)
    Q How did you rip your britches?(Good question.)
    A I ripped them when they handcuffed me.
    Q How did you rip them?
    A That's it. When they--well, they took me out of the--you know, out of the house and took me onto the patio and then they handcuffed--put my hands behind my back and handcuffed me, and I kept asking them what was the matter and they said, "We'll show you," and I thought something was really wrong then when they said that.(Again no answer the question given; How did you rip your ‚??britches‚??)
    Q Okay, other than a black Porsche being around there that you think is unusual--and I don't know why you think that is unusual.
    A Well, he's usually there and I don't know why you said that--anything unusual. I said that it's usually there every night. I don't know if you'd say it's unusual or not.
    Q Well, what else? When they're having these parties, do you stand up on your porch or window and look down at the party at the pool, or what?
    A No, you can't. It's level with it. You know, it's on a foundation and everything. (Comes into play later in the polygraph)
    Q What have you seen going on there that is different?
    Page 35
    A I never seen,-well, that night?
    Q Any time?
    A Oh, maybe one time I seen that--I don't know, I--I was asleep and I woke up, and that was when Darrell was living there and those two girls were staying that night, and they were over in the pool swimming and I went over there and they said that they'd seen Polk (phonetic)--Sharon wasn't there yet, I don't think, on mescaline--that somebody was on mescaline or something.
    Q I didn't hear you.
    A Somebody was on mescaline or something that lived in the main house. That was what they told me.
    Q How would they know this?
    A They said that they told 'em.~
    Q They told them? What do you mean?
    A They told them that they were on mescaline or something.
    Q Someone that was in the main house told the two girls that were visiting you that?
    A Yeah, yeah, and that they are on mescaline or something--I don't know.
    Q What did this mean to you?

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    A Nothing. That's not that unusual that if you (*) I guess--I don't know, I've never taken mescaline or anything.
    Q Have you used marijuana?
    Page 36
    A Have I?
    Q Yes.
    A Yes.
    Q What else have you used?
    A Before this I had had LSD before.
    Q What else?
    A It is (*) I don't know, what they call speed (*) I've had that before.
    Q What's the last thing you used?
    A Well, just the four cans of beer, and the gardener brought up some, you know, stuff--you know. Is this going to be held against me or anything? Well, Thursday night the gardener brought up some marijuana, and I drank four cans of beer and smoked two marijuana cigarettes and had one dexedrine or something--it's from the pharmacy or something, I don't know. I took that. I got real sick, and I said that's the last for me, you know, marijuana.
    Q You and Steve blow some pot?
    A No.
    Q Huh?
    A No.
    Q Were you high when Steve was there?
    A No.
    Q Was Steve high?
    A Well, the beer I gave him, that's it. He said that it hit him.
    Page 37
    Q Are you gay?
    A No.
    Q Huh? (Leading ‚?? asking a question like this and then getting the person to answer again with something like Huh? Is a good way to get a false result ‚?? the person could feel embarrassed about the answer and trigger the same reactions as would be with a lie. In this case it would have been proper to move on and ask the same question again later in the test.)
    A No.
    Q Ever had sex with Steve?
    A No.
    Q Ever have sex with a man?
    A Yes.
    Q Who?
    A Well, when I first came out here, you know, I was in the big city and everything, and--well, some guy named Rice or something like that--I don't know if I did or not. I was asleep when it happened, but the kid that I came out here with said that, you know, he did whatever he did.
    Q What was he supposed to have done?
    A Well, what they usually do.
    Q Well, they do a lot of things.
    A Well, that was what he said.
    Q Screwed you in the butt?
    A No.
    Q Made you suck him?
    A No.
    Q He sucked you?
    A Yes.
    Q And he gave you a head job?
    Page 38
    A Yes, he said that. That's what he said.
    Q But you don't know this?

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    A I--well, I don't know. He showed us a movie, and we rolled over and went to sleep, and there was a lot of people that crashed it and everything. I thought it was just a regular place where people slept. That was in Hollywood.
    Q He was supposed to have given you a head job?
    A Yes.
    Q And you're supposed to sleep through this?
    A Well, I was asleep. Well, I didn't know it until a couple of days later. That's what I heard.
    Q You think somebody could give you a head job and you'd sleep through it?
    A Probably.
    Q You think so?
    A Yes.
    Q I find it hard to believe.
    A Well, I was up for about two nights. That's when we first came out here.
    Q Okay, unless you are high on downers or something like this.
    A No, I wasn't on downers; that was when I first came out here. We hitchhiked all the way across from Ohio.
    Q Uh huh.
    A And I was up for a few nights and--
    Page 39 (this page is missing)
    Page 40
    and I met this one kid--he was about 26 or 27, you know, and he said--well, asked where I was going, and I told him I was going to some movie. And he wanted, you know, he says, "Do you care if I come along?" and I says, "I don't care." You know, anyway delayed it, and I just--you know, I says, "Well, why don't you buy some beer, you know, and play monopoly or something?" Play monopoly, and we did, and we played monopoly and stuff, but I never had sex with him or anything. But I figured he might be gay, but I don't know. Because, you know, how they get around--he asked me if I ever had sex with anybody, you know, men; and I told him no. I just told him maybe one time before.
    Q While you were at this residence where you are living now--
    A Yes. (Who is this person he is talking about that came over to visit while he was at Cielo? This 26 or 27 year old man? Why is the page before this one missing that would give more details about this man?
    Q --at any time when you are on the grounds there in the main house or other than what you have told me, have you seen any sex? (Why wouldn‚??t he continue to ask questions about the above man?)
    A Have I seen any sex?
    Q Uh huh.
    A You mean in the main house?
    Q Yes.
    A No.
    Q Anything at all?
    A Nothing.
    Q Did you ever see the Polanski or Folger girls nude

    Page 41
    in the swimming pool?
    A I seen one girl nude in the swimming pool one time, but it wasn't Mrs. Polanski or it wasn't Abigail.
    Q Who was it?
    A I don't know.
    Q Was she visiting you?
    A No.
    Q Who was she visiting?
    A It was one of their friends that was when--well, that was when Mrs. Polanski and Mr. Polanski, they were in Europe. It was one of their friends, the younger Polanski, and they were taking movies while she was swimming nude.

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    Q They were taking movies?
    A Yes, but that was--that was in March or somewhere around there.(The Manson girls said that they would swim nude at that home, and this is just weeks after Tex’s friend who allowed him AND the girls to pretty much live there moved out)
    Q Did they let you come up and watch?
    A No, no, no, I--one time I had just brought my laundry back, sheets and stuff I had done. (At the start of the polygraph he says that part of his deal for staying there is ‘they’ do his laundry. No idea who the they is, but it seems odd he would be washing his things when its part of his agreement that someone else does his washing.)
    Q Yeah.
    A And I walked by and, you know, I seen her up by the pool and they were taking pictures, you know; she was swimming nude, but then they put a towel around her and everything.
    Q Was this a professional setup or just a home movie?
    A No, it was just a home movie camera.
    Q Who was taking the pictures?
    Page 42
    A The younger Polanski, I think.
    Q Who was with him?
    A That was quite awhile ago. I don't think I can remember.
    Q You can remember how many people were there?
    A There might have been about four or five.
    Q One girl and all the rest were males?
    A No. No, no, no. Abigail Folger was there, I think, and the other girl swimming in the nude. There might have been three girls and two boys. I don't know. There may have been two girls and three boys.
    Q Describe the guy that drives the Porsche?
    A I never really seen him.
    Q Tell me what you have seen.
    A I--I don't know. I don't know if he's tall or not. I think I might have seen him once. I don't know, but I never really seen him close up.
    Q Does he look gay?
    A I don't know. I've never talked to him or anything.
    Q Well, is he little, short, fat man or is he a fancy-Dan dresser, this type of thing?
    A I never--you know.
    Q Would you know him if you saw him?
    A Would I know him if I saw him? I don't know. There's been so many people that's, you know, been up there. But I don't know if I ever saw him or not, really. I think he had black hair, maybe. I know he had dark hair. He had dark hair. I would say he was about--I don't know, he was about--I couldn't say whether he was very tall or not. (So you’ve never seen him, you don’t know if hes tall or short but then you “know” he had dark hair. How do you know someone’s hair color but cant tell how if they are tall or short?)
    Q What do you think happened to Steve?
    A To Steve? Well, I heard he got shot.
    Q Why?
    A I don't know.
    Q What do you think?
    A I don't know. I didn't hear any shots.
    Q Would you tell me if you had?
    A Yes.
    Q Why?
    A Would I tell you if I heard any shots? Because I would just tell you if I heard any shots.
    Q You're out there and you're nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof in that house, and you don't hear anything other than a dog bark?
    A I have been that way several times. I mean not only that night; I have been scared other nights, too.
    Q Why?

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    A Well, way back in March or something I heard the poodles run around, and there was somebody back there tramping around.
    Q Did you go out to investigate?
    A No.
    Q Didn't you look out the window to see if you could
    Page 44
    see what was going on?
    A Yeah, but I can't see anything out there. My porch light wasn't working or anything. (above in answering another questions he said ‚??A No, you can't. It's level with it. You know, it's on a foundation and everything.‚?Ě Why would he look out the window If you couldn‚??t see anything from it?)
    Q Did you fix it?
    A Yes.
    Q Does it work now?
    A Yes.
    Q When you were nervous Friday, didn't you look out?
    A I looked out once.
    Q What did you see?
    A Nothing.
    Q The lights on? House dark?
    A I didn't look out. I didn't look out by the main house. I looked down by--the bathroom window, you know, right where the patio is in the guesthouse. (You didn‚??t look out or you looked out once? Why wasn‚??t this questioned further?)
    Q This was when Christopher was making all this noise?
    A Yes.
    Q And what did you see?
    A Nothing.
    Q That was after Steve had left?
    A It was about two or three hours after he left. Somewhere around there. That's when I looked out in the yard. I didn't look in the back yard. There's a cement platform where you walk into the guest house. (Did you look in the yard or didn‚??t you? He says he didn‚??t look into the backyard yet the window he says he was looking out of has a direct view of the back yard, Also again with the conflicting statements in one answer, could give false truthful answer)
    Q You looked out there?
    Page 45
    A Yes.
    Q That the only place you could look out?
    A No, I could have looked out if I wanted to. I could look out by the main house.
    Q Why didn't you?
    A I don't know. (Are we really going to believe someone will go to the window and NOT look at the main area the window shows? Why even bother looking out the window? It doesn‚??t seem likely that when looking out the window that you wouldn‚??t scan the backyard naturally)
    Q Maybe you did.
    A I went back there in the room, and the thing was unbolted and I bolted it up. But I didn't look out the window.
    Q What was unbolted?
    A Well, it was the shutters. It was unbolted and the screen has been pried before. I don't know how that got there. It must have happened quite awhile because the screen (*) then I hooked it up then.
    Q Wasn't it already hooked up?
    A No, it was unlatched.
    Q Is it usually unlatched?
    A The last I remember it was latched.
    Q Who unlatched it?

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    A I don't know. The thing was bent.
    Q Bent?
    A Yes.
    Q What do you mean?
    A The hook.
    Q But it latched okay.
    Page 46
    A Yeah. Well, see it was bent like it was. It's a real little hook. It's bent a little bit. Do you mind if I have a cigarette or anything?
    Q I'd rather you didn't.
    A Okay.
    Q Let me read the questions to you, Bill, we're going to start with. I want you to concern yourself with these questions for the time being. We'll probably change them later on but right now just concern yourself with these questions. I'm going to ask you primarily about Steve, I think. Of course, he was the one that was visiting you?
    A Yes.
    Q He was the one that you did talk to that night?
    A Yes.
    Q And from what you told me, you were certainly one of the last persons that saw him alive?
    A Yes.
    Q Where did he live?
    A He said he lived out by Pomona.
    Q Pomona?
    A Yes.
    Q Ail right. So I'm going to primarily be concerned with the line of these. The questions will concern Steve, I'll ask you, regarding Steve's death. Do you intend to answer each question about that truthfully?
    A Yes.
    Page 47
    Q I'll ask you concerning Steve: Did you cause his death? Do you know what I mean by that?
    A Did I cause his death? No, I didn't cause his death, no.(Odd answer to the question, when people repeat questions it typically means they are being dishonest and are attempting to think of an answer. He also puts the emphasis on ‚??I didn‚??t‚?Ě
    Q Okay. I'll ask you: Are you the one who caused Steve's death?
    A No.
    Q I'll also ask you: Is your first name William; is your true last name Garretson?
    A Yes.
    Q I'll ask: Between the ages of 15 and 17-
    A No.
    Q Between the ages of 15-
    A No.
    Q Let me finish the question. Between the ages of 15 and 17, do you remember using narcotics?
    A No. I don't remember using narcotics. Right now?
    Q During the first 15 years of your life, do you remember using narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Is there some other question you're afraid I'm going to ask you?
    A No. Oh, I don't know.
    Q Here's the thing. I think--I don't know now whether you've looked at the situation that occurred the other night or not. I'm sure it's gone over in your mind
    Page 48
    several times. Just from what you've told me, either you're involved in this by being an active participant or you're an extremely fortunate person.
    A I know, that's--that's why I keep thinking about why I wasn't murdered.

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    Q I don't know. Let's review the questions again. I'm going to ask you in this order and answer these yes or know, if you can. This is the way I want you to answer during the examination. I'll ask you if your first name is William?
    A Yes.
    Q Is your true last name Garretson?
    A Yes.
    Q Regarding Steve's death, do you intend to answer each question about that truthfully?
    A Yes.
    Q I'll ask you: Is there some other question you're afraid I will ask you?
    A I don't know--I--
    Q Is there something right now that's on your mind that you don't want to disclose?
    A All I can say is I was really afraid that night. (Why isn‚??t more made out of this? Why isn‚??t he asked further? It makes NO sense that he was ‚??really afraid‚?? that night if he didn‚??t see/hear anything. Why was he afraid?)
    Q You're not afraid of my asking you if you were frightened, are you?
    A No.
    Q That isn't what you are concerned with?
    Page 49
    A No. (So what is it that he IS concerned with??)
    Q All right. I'm going to ask you: Between the ages of 15 and 17, do you remember using narcotics?
    A No, I don't. No, I don't.
    Q Concerning Steve, did you cause his death?
    A No.
    Q During the first 15 years of your life, do you remember using narcotics?
    A During the 15--
    Q During the first 15 years of your life, do you remember using narcotics?
    A No, I never used any narcotics.
    Q Just yes or no. Can you answer it yes or no?
    A No.
    Q Okay, are you the one who caused Steve's death?
    A No.
    Q Did you shoot him?
    A No.
    Q You heard he was shot?
    A I heard, yeah(Badly worded questions that could cause a false truthful answer. Did you hear he was shot? (as in being told) Yes. Did you HEAR the shots, Yes. Either way Positive answers.)
    Q You heard he was shot; is that true?
    A Yes.
    Q Did you shoot him?
    A No.
    Q Did you see him shot?
    A No.
    Page 50
    Q Did you know he was shot before the police took you there ?
    A No.
    Q Huh?
    A You mean did I know he was shot? No, I didn't know he was shot, no.
    Q I don't know. Maybe you went outside and you saw this happen, and you ran back in and bolted the door and covered your head over with a pillow.
    A (*) I never heard these shots. (These shots?)
    Q Did you cause his death?
    A No.
    Q Okay, is there some other question I failed to ask you? That question will be asked twice. Do you understand the questions?

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    A Yes.
    Q Do you think you can answer them as simple yes or no answers?
    A Yes.
    Q You don't have to say yes, sir or no, sir or I think so or maybe. You just answer yes or no.
    A Just yes or no.
    Q Okay, now this instrument is going to record--It goes on the side of your body when I'm asking you these questions. If you are lying to me--
    A I'm not.
    Page 51
    Q --if you're holding something back, I'm going to find it out.
    A Yes.
    Q If you are telling the truth, this is going to say you're telling the truth.
    A Yes.
    Q I don't know if you're telling me the truth or not. You know, don't you?
    A Yeah.
    Q You know whether or not you're truthful.
    A I just--it seems to shake me up a little bit even-- you know. (whats it?)
    Q I would imagine it would shake you up. But that doesn't mean you're lying.
    A No. I'm just confused.
    Q Why are you confused?
    A For one thing, how come I wasn't murdered?
    Q I don't know.
    A I mean if somebody could have easily have done that to these people, I don't know why they didn't do it to me.
    A (*) I got a scrape here.
    Q Yeah, you could use a bandage on that. How did that happen?
    A When the policemen took me out. (Is it possible this scrape and his pants being torn happened before the police were there?)
    Q Did you fight them?
    A No.
    Q Huh?
    A No.
    Q Heart's beating pretty fast; isn't it? You going to lie to me?
    A No.

    Q Is your true last name Garretson?
    A Yes.
    Q Regarding Steve's death, do you intend to answer each question about that truthfully?
    A Yes.
    Q Is there some other question you're afraid I'll ask you?
    A Kind of. (Really? What? We covered his drug use, his homosexual relationships among many other embarrassing things, What is he afraid will be asked?)
    Q Just relax. Between the ages of 15 and 17, do you remember using narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Concerning Steve, did you cause his death?
    A No.
    Q During the first 15 years of your life, do you remember using narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Look straight ahead. Are you the one who caused Steve's death?
    A No.
    Q Is there some other question you're afraid I will ask you?
    A No.
    Q Okay, relax. You understood the questions?
    A Yes.
    Q Do you feel responsible for Steve's death?
    A That he even knew me, yes.

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    Page 55
    Q Huh?
    A That he even knew me. I mean he wouldn't have came up that night and nothing would have happened in other words to him.
    Q And he surprised you?
    A Well, he didn't surprise me that he came, just that you know--I mean he came up to visit me and when he left, you know, that's horrible.
    Q I'm going to change those questions to ask you instead of "did you cause his death", I'm going to say: "Did you shoot Steve?" I'm going to ask you instead of, "are you the one that caused Steve's death", I'm going to ask you: "Are you the one who shot Steve?" Do you understand those questions? Okay, all the other questions will be the same.
    Q What is it you are worried about I'll ask you a question about, incidentally?
    A I don't know. When I was going back to the cell, a policeman said, "There's the guy that killed these people", and everything, you know, it seems like everybody doesn't believe it. (What is the question that hes afraid of answering? He doesn’t answer the question, Also – Doesn’t believe it?)
    Q Does not believe it?
    A Does believe it,I don't know why. (does believe it now)
    Q Does believe what?
    A Well, that policeman the way he talked to my attorney.
    Q Policeman said, "There's the guy that did it,"
    Page 56
    and pointed to you?
    A Yeah, down there. It's--I don't know, it just kind of upset me.
    Q All right, let's go through those questions again.
    A I just wonder if there is anything besides a lie detector test, maybe a truth serum, or a different kind, you know.
    Q Why?
    A Hypnotize me or anything?
    Q Why?
    A I don't know, it just seems like it would be better than this.
    Q Why?
    A I don't know why. I never (*) before this.
    Q Okay, same questions. Ready to begin. Is your first name William?
    A Yes.
    Q Is your true last name Garretson?
    A Yes.
    Q Regarding Steve's death, do you intend to answer each question about that truthfully?
    A Yes.
    Q Hold still. Between the ages of 15 and 17, do your remember using narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Did you shoot Steve?
    Page 57
    A No.
    Q During the first 15 years of your life, do you remember using narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Are you the one who shot Steve?
    A No.
    Q Is there some other question you're afraid I'm going to ask you?
    A No.
    Q Well, do you know the particulars inside the house? As they existed the morning the police arrested you?
    A The what?
    Q What do you know of any particulars?
    A Particulars?
    Q Uh huh.

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    A I don't know.
    Q You said something about a rope, you know. You were told this or told something about this.
    A Yeah, well the attorney told me that, you know, they were hanging or something with a white sheet over them or something in the house, and then he said he shouldn't tell me. (Was this and the other info he had verified by his lawyer? Did the lawyer ever get questioned about him telling Garretson these things?)
    Q I don't know about that.
    A And he told me about that.
    Q What else did he tell you he shouldn't have told you?
    Page 58
    A That was that.
    Q Nothing else?
    A Nothing else.
    Q And, you know, when you were told Steve was shot, how about any of the others?
    A Nothing.
    Q Do you know from what you saw, could you tell?
    A No, I couldn't tell. Well, it looked like--well, the--I mean, one thing that did puzzle me, it looked like the woman that was out in the yard looked like the maid when I walked by, and then I seen the maid was at the gate and they told me it was Mrs. Polanski. That's the only thing.
    Q It puzzled you. You thought that was the maid on the--
    A You know, I thought it was the maid, then I seen the maid.
    Q Later on so you knew it wasn't the maid?
    A Yeah, I knew it wasn't the maid.
    Q Now you know who it was?
    A Oh, yeah, they said it was Mrs. Polanski.
    Q Where was this--who did they identify to you as Mrs. Polanski?
    A The person out in the yard.
    Q In the yard?
    A Yes.
    Q Listen to these questions I'm going to ask you
    Page 59
    about Mrs. Polanski. What caused her death, do you know?
    A No.
    Q Now listen to the questions. And say only yes or no or nothing at all. If you can't answer it, don't say anything. ( At this point hes repeatedly been told to say yes or no and nothing else, yet when the hard questions come he always answers with more than that leaving the reading for the answer to that question inaccurate)
    A Yes--just yes or no. If I can't answer don't say anything?
    Q Right. I'm going to ask you each time if you know if Mrs. Polanski was this, this, or this, what caused her death. Ready to begin. Do you know if Mrs. Polanski was strangled?
    A No.
    Q Do you know if Mrs. Polanski was beaten with a rock?
    A No.
    Q Do you know if Mrs. Polanski was stabbed?
    A Uh, I asked--I think I knew. I think--I'm not sure, but I heard that they were stabbed before. (Yes or no?)
    Q You're not sure?
    A I think they were stabbed because they mentioned it.
    Q Who mentioned it?
    A I think--well, I think the lawyer might have mentioned it to me that they were stabbed. I don't know. I don't know for sure. You know, well, when I seen 'em lying on the ground, I don't know. My eyes looked away and Istopped and I don't know whether they were stabbed or not. I mean I don't know.
    Q Now, this all happened--what would you say, Friday morning, Saturday morning; what does it mean to you, what day was it?

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    A Well, it would have had to happen in the morning, maybe. I don't know. (*) I mean it was after Steve left, after twelve.
    Q Which morning?
    A Saturday. Saturday.
    Q Steve was there Friday night?
    A Friday night, and it's partly Saturday morning because he left after twelve.
    Q The police arrested you Saturday?
    A Saturday.
    Q Yesterday?
    A About eleven o'clock, it was around there.
    Q How many times have you been in that big house, the main house?
    A I think about twice.
    Q When was the last time?
    A That's when they asked me over one time. Abigail and the young Polanski. And they asked me--they asked me up. Abigail called me up and asked if I didn't have to go to court the next day for a (*) Possession of Marijuana charge which they lowered to Visitation. They wanted to talk to me,

    Page 61
    and that was the last I was there.
    Q They wanted to talk to you?
    A Yes.
    Q About what?
    A About going to court.
    Q What did they tell you?
    A Well, it seemed like they were really concerned, you know, because Mr. Altabelli left and she, you know, he left with Mrs. Polanski, and she seemed a little bit concerned, you know, what was going to happen, if I was going to get, you know, a probation or whatever. You know, we discussed it. That was the last time I was there.
    Q Did they offer you any narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Did they ask whether you could get some information for them? Or you could get some from them?
    A They offered me a beer when I was there.
    Q Offered you a beer?
    A Yeah. Or a glass of milk.
    Q That was how long ago?
    A Let's see, that was in March--middle of March.
    Q Listen to these questions and say as we have been doing, they are simply yes or no; and if I ask you questions you don't know or you don't know how to answer--you want to explain before you answer, ignore it and I'll go on. Wait a few seconds and I'll go on and ask the next question. You
    Page 62
    understand? Do you understand?
    A Yes.
    Q Okay, fine. All right, I'm ready to begin. Is your name William?
    A Yes.
    Q Is your middle name Eston?
    A Yes.
    Q Do you know who caused Mrs. Polanski's death?
    A No.
    Q Were you born in Ohio?
    A Yes.
    Q Did you cause Mrs. Polanski's death?

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    A No. My arm is falling asleep. (Is it just me or is it getting a little strange that every time something is asked about Sharon he intentionally messes up the reading? He knows that if he says something more than yes or no it will effect the reading.)
    Q Well, that shouldn't happen.
    A Right here at my hand.
    Q We're not cutting off the blood. We're merely restricting it slightly so we can pick up your blood, pulse pattern here. You're going to feel some sensation there.
    A Yeah.
    Q So just ignore it.
    A Okay.
    Q And it's only on there for a matter of two minutes, okay?
    A Okay.
    Q Let's go through those questions again. We'll start back at the beginning. Sit quiet. Look straight ahead.
    Page 63
    Okay, ready to begin. Is your first name William?
    A Yes.
    Q Is your middle name Eston?
    A Yes.
    Q Do you know who caused Mrs. Polanski's death?
    A No.
    Q Were you born in Ohio?
    A Yes.
    Q Did you cause Mrs. Polanski's death?
    A No.
    Q Were you born in 1949?
    A Yes.
    Q Were you in the main house yesterday?
    A No.
    Q Are you 19 years old?
    A Yes.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Dorman?
    A Uh, pardon?
    Q Look straight ahead. Do you know anyone by the name of Dorman?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Dawson?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Darby?
    A No.
    Q After Steve left, did you go outside your
    Page 64
    apartment?
    A No.
    Q Have you ever stolen anything and not been caught?
    A What do you mean?
    Q Never mind, just look straight ahead. Have you ever smoked marijuana?
    A Yes.
    Q Have you recently smoked marijuana?
    A Recently?
    Q Recently.
    A I mean how recently that I haven't?
    Q Have you ever used LSD?
    A Yes.
    Q Have you ever sold narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Have you ever had sex with a man?

  21. #371
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    A Yes.
    Q Recently would be what?
    A Thursday.
    Q Since?
    A The last time.
    Q Did you get high Friday, and with Steve?
    A No.
    Q Steve have anything beside beer before he left?
    A That's it, just one can.
    Q And have you ever stolen anything and not been
    Page 65
    caught?
    A (*) what do you--I have before, but that was a long, long time ago.
    Q Do you consider yourself a thief?
    A No.
    Q Is it true you kicked Kistler out because he was stealing? How many bottles did he take?
    A Well, I think there was about six of them taken.
    Q How many of them did you take?
    A None.
    Q Have you understood all the questions?
    A Yes.
    Q Any of them need explaining?
    A No.
    Q You mean you can answer them now yes or no?
    A Yes.
    Q Okay. When I say "have you ever smoked marijuana recently", I think Thursday would be considered recent. How is your arm, okay?
    A It was getting kind of--my hand was falling asleep.
    Q Is it all right now?
    A It feels somewhat better now.
    Q Okay, ready to begin. Is your first name William?
    A Yes.
    Q Is your middle name Eston?
    A Yes.
    Page 66
    Q Do you know who caused Mrs. Polanski's death?
    A No.
    Q Were you born in Ohio?
    A Yes.
    Q Did you cause Mrs. Polanski's death?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anybody by the name of Dorman?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Dawson?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Darby?
    A No.
    Q After Steve left, did you go outside your apartment?
    A No.
    Q Did you answer the last question truthfully?
    A Yes. Wait a minute, I don't know if I did or not come to think of it. Because I might have went out the back door that's way in the back. (first we have heard of this, again another misleading answer ‚?? did you answer honestly.. ‚??Yes, BUT maybe I did go out‚?? would cause a misleading reading)
    Q Well, there is no question here there's something about that question that is bothering you, and I'm not sure it's a truthful answer, or something is on your mind.

  22. #372
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    A That's what--that's what I was wondering if I ever went out the back.
    Q Why can't you remember? Were you high?
    A No, I wasn't high.
    Q What is it?
    Page 67
    A Well, actually I don't know if I went out the back or not because I might have let Christopher out. I don't know.
    Q When he was barking?
    A Well, I'd let him out before, out the back door, so he could go to the bathroom.
    Q Well, let's pick up on that last bit and continue the exam. You really don't know, huh?
    A I don't know. I don't know.
    Q Well, let's see, after Steve left did you walk out and see his car or talk to him, say goodbye or talk to anybody in the house or go swimming? If it was he went out, it would be just opening it and shutting it to let the dog out?
    A Yes.
    Q It couldn't have been that you walked the dog?
    A No, I didn't take the dog for a walk.
    Q Okay, look straight ahead. I'm going to add some first names, nicknames onto those names I have been asking you about. Are you 19 years old?
    A Yes.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Slick Dorman?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Buck Darby?
    A No.
    Q Have you ever stolen anything and not been caught?
    Page 68
    A Yes.
    Q Have you recently stolen something and not been caught?
    A No.
    Q Have you recently used LSD? How recently would you say? Never mind. Within the last week, have you used LSD?
    A No.
    Q While Steve was at your apartment Friday night, did you smoke marijuana?
    A No.
    Q Has your life been threatened?
    A Maybe a few times. I don't know.
    Q Do you think you know who caused Polanski's death?
    A Polanski? (Again him being weird about a Sharon question – Hes repeatedly referred to her with the name ‘polanski’ but now suddenly he has to ask “Polanski?”
    Q Polanski's death.
    A No.
    Q Did you cause Mrs. Polanski's death?
    A No. My hand is falling asleep. (Again a Sharon question he answers with more than yes or no, knowing that it causes a false result. Why does every question with Sharon seem to make him more nervous than the others?)
    Q Huh?
    A My hand is going to sleep.
    Q When has your life been threatened?
    A Well, I don't think it actually--it was a serious threat but one time. (Ok, the threat was serious)
    Q All right, tell me--tell me about the one time.
    A It's been, oh—(Person giving the test interrupting again, giving him time to figure out if he wants to be honest or not)
    Page 69
    Q Tell me about it.

  23. #373
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    A Well, when I kicked Darrell out at one time--I mean, you know, it's just I knew him for about eight years. It's nothing.(Was it nothing or was it serious?)
    Q Tell me what the nothing is.
    A I don't know if you could say my life the way actually he did threaten.
    Q What did he say?
    A I forget exactly what he said. (How convenient, he‚??s interrupted and now doesn‚??t know what was said. I gotta wonder what he would have said had he been allowed to continue.)
    Q Well, we can beat around the bush all day long here, Bill, and you'll tell me eventually what it was.
    A I don't know. Well, I wouldn't say exactly that he threatened my life.
    Q What did he say?
    A Well, he felt like beating me up for one thing.
    Q Well, he didn't just leave willingly when you said "now you got to get your ass out", he didn't leave willingly, did he?
    A No, well, I mean he had his bags packed--he packed his bags and left and everything, but (*) just said he didn't--you know, I don't know how to say it.
    Q Try.
    A Just--just said he'd beat me up or something. He said, "I'll beat you up or something." I don't know. I figure exactly what he said, it wasn't real--it wasn't I would say it was a threat, actually, because he had said it before, you know. (Call me cynical but it seems like Garretson could have been ready to say whomever really threatened him and then thought better of it once he was interrupted, and had to come up with something so he came up with this ‚??friend‚??)
    Q Well, why did you write him a letter?
    A I told him to come on back. (So this was a serious threat that scared you but you are writing him to come see you?)
    Q Why?
    A I don't know. Just told him to come and visit.
    Q Visit or come and live with you?
    A No, just visit.
    Q Why?
    A Because I was lonely.
    Q Was he the only one that visited you that kept you from being lonely?
    A Well, I figured if he came he'd probably bring Debbie along and his girl (*)
    Q I want you to sit here and think for a minute. Looks like there's something you're holding back. Whether it's about Steve or looking in that window or what it is, I don't know. Think about it for a minute, okay? And I'll be back in a jiffy.
    (Pause)
    Q The last time you went through a chart--well, first of all, what have you been thinking since I left? What's come in your mind?
    A I thought about that. That's all I think about what happened.
    Q That you told me the truth?
    A Yes.

    Page 71
    Q All of it?
    A Yes.
    Q Do you think you might have let the dog out after Steve left?
    A Well, he could have got out the back way.
    Q Why that way?
    A I don't know.
    Q Why don't you know? You were frightened that night; you remember the door handle; you remember looking out the bathroom; you remember some details; you remember watching TV, making a TV dinner, talking to Steve. Now why can't you remember whether or not you went outside?
    A As far as I--well, I didn't go outside then as far as I know.

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    Q You did not?
    (Could not hear any response)
    Q But you're not sure?
    A I might have went out back.
    Q What does that mean?
    A I don't know.
    Q Well, what is out back?
    A Well, out back in the yard.
    Q Where would you go if you went out back?
    A That would be north, the far end, it's a--you know, a little place.
    Q What would you do if you did go out back?
    Page 72
    A Just let Christopher out.
    Q Does that mean that you walked out of the yard and looked at the stars and walked back in?
    A It might.
    Q And what else might it mean?
    A That's it. Just that. (Seems hes hiding something)
    Q Do you think you've been completely truthful with me?
    A Yeah, but I was a little bit shocked.
    Q Shocked? Did you say shocked?
    A I mean not sh--I was just a little bit, what's happened (*).
    Q You are shocked at what has happened?
    A Yes.
    Q I'm asking you about the examination, do you think you have been completely truthful with me?
    A Yes, I have been completely truthful.
    Q Let's go through that last series of questions again.
    Q Relax. Sit quiet. Sit comfortable. Just say yes or no. Is your first name William?
    A Yes.
    Q Is your middle name Eston?
    A Yes.
    Q Do you know who caused Mrs. Polanski's death?
    A No.
    Page 73
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Slick Dorman?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Pig Dawson?
    A No.
    Q Do you know anyone by the name of Buck Darby?
    A No.
    Q Have you ever seen narcotics being used in the big house, main house?
    A No.
    Q Have you ever seen sex parties in the main house?
    A No.
    Q Other than what you told me, have you ever had sex with a male?
    A No.
    Q Have you ever sold narcotics?
    A No.
    Q Have you ever owned a gun?
    A No.
    Q Within the last three days, have you seen a gun?
    A No.
    Q Have you answered all my questions about what happened at that house truthfully?
    A Yes.
    Q Okay. Why did you say when I asked you if you think you might have been outside that house, why do you say, "No," when you said just a little bit before that you

  25. #375
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    Page74
    say you think you might.
    A I might have went out the back (*)
    Q Isn't it strange you can't remember something like that? If you were in my place, wouldn't you find that strange?
    A (*)
    Q That you couldn't remember that?
    A I wasn't expecting anything. (what does that mean? The answer seems to imply that he saw something he didn‚??t expect to see)
    Q But you were frightened, you said.
    A Yes.
    Q And you saw the door knob hanging down, or the door handle.
    A Yes.
    Q And that frightened you?
    A Yes.
    Q And you said you weren't about to go outside, right? (good point, hes scared to death but he goes outside yet cant REMEMBER going outside???)
    A Yes.
    Q Yet you think you might have?
    A I might have went out back. I don't know.
    Q And you might have gone out front?
    A No.
    Q You couldn't have gone out front, huh? Is it possible?
    A Yes. It's impossible. (So before he was adamantly denying he ever went outside, back or front. Then its possible that he went outside to the backyard but not the front. Then its possible he went into the front yard as well???)
    Q You couldn't have followed Steve out to his car?
    A No.
    Q Why not?
    A Because I didn't.
    Q How do you think Steve got caught in all this and you didn't know about it?
    A Do I think he got caught in it?
    Q How do you think he got caught out there in all this when you didn't know about it?
    A I don't know.
    Q Do you think he might have gone by that picture window and saw something that held his attention for awhile?
    A I don't know.
    Q You don't know. Did you ever see anything in that window that held your attention for awhile?
    A No.
    Q Ever see anything going on that was a little unusual or weird?
    A No.
    Q Never?
    A No.
    Q I find that hard to believe.
    A Why?
    Q I don't know, I just do.
    A I haven't.
    Q There was apparently a lot of strange things going on around there. You're living there and didn't know about it, didn't see it? Didn't you walk past that house many times?
    A I went by there a few times. (Hes lived there for six months and the only way to get to the guest house is BY the main house and hes walked by it a ‚??few‚?? times?)
    Q The strangest thing you ever saw was the woman swimming nude in the pool, huh?
    A Yes.
    Q Any difference about the interior of this house?
    A What do you mean?
    Q Well, is it just like your ma and pa's house?
    A I don't know. I mean, well, last time when I was in it was in March, and it looked regular to me.
    Q Regular, just like any other homey little room?
    A Yeah. Nothing different to me. What's this?
    LT. BURDICK: To wipe your hands. Come along.
    ==END OF TRANSCRIPT==

  26. #376
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    Ok, sorry for how many posts it took to get his polygraph on here; I didnt think it would be fair to not post it in entirety because bits by bits could be misleading.

    I have a lot of issues with how he was allowed to answer things as well as how he wasnt asked several VERY important questions.

    Example: Imagine you get caught stealing something from a store.. You are taking a polygraph and you are asked.. "Did you steal x from this store" If your answer is
    'Yes, I didnt steal anything from that store' It could very well read as if you were being honest as you said YES at the start of the statement. Typically this would cause the test giver to ask the question again a bit later. Its a matter of symantec's but it would without a doubt confuse the test.

    Also, The test giver interrupts him often which kept Garretson from answering the question, as the person giving the test would move from one thing to another.

    There were so many questions that needed to be asked again due to his answers, where he would say that he did hear something but then directly said he didnt afterwards.

    I dont know what I think of him but I think that when theres smoke theres fire and hes smoking like a chimney.


    There are some very important questions that werent asked (and I have NO idea why they werent asked) below are just a few;

    *Do you know who killed these people?
    *Did you see anything that you think may get you killed if you tell?
    *Why were you so scared that night? Did you hide at any point?
    *Why did you write someone that you say said he was going to beat you up and you felt was a serious threat to come see you?
    *Have you ever seen people around the property that talked of killing other people or seemed to be capible of killing someone?
    *Why was it so important for you to know the time the night of the murders when it wasnt an issue before that?
    *Why did you say you tried to use the phone around midnight and then changed that until dawn later?
    *What was so important that you needed to stay up all night to call someone at dawn?
    *Can your lawyer verify the info you say that he gave you in regards to the color of the rope used for the murders, The thing over jays face,how they were killed, Ect (Keep in mind this polygraph was the DAY after the murders and Im not sure how the lawyer would have even gotten all the info) If the lawyer didnt tell him all these details, where did he get them from?
    *Can the police officers verify that his pants were ripped and the injuries on his body were actually from when the police came and arrested him?
    *How is it that he cant remember if he went outside? He remembers everything else down to the time but he cant remember if he went outside? This polygraph was the day after the murders, how could he NOT remember? He wasnt high, He wasnt on drugs. How couldnt he remember?

    Dont get me wrong, If he saw something or heard something and hid I cant blame him at all, If he had seen something and attempted to help then Im sure he would be killed too. There are just too many unanswered questions.

    Ps. I think a better title for this would be William Garretson - victim or accomplice or something similar. Hes not a hero by any means and unless he had something to do with the murders (which I dont think anyone believes) hes not a villian either. Just my two cents.
    Last edited by punklove; 11-29-2009 at 04:30 AM.

  27. #377
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    Now for his testomny







    So now the back door was wide open AND the dogs didnt bark all night?? ANd now its nothing to be alarmed about? Didnt he, in fact, say that they did bark all night and thats what alarmed him???? Also, does this not screw up his story about he 'maybe' went outside when he took the dog out so it could go to the bathroom? If the door was open the dog could come and go as he pleased.



    Wait, So not they werent barking and he wasnt scared??



    Really? In the polygraph he said that they only bark when someone is coming to the guesthouse and he found it very bothersome, so which is it?




    Again lying - Here he says he didnt look out the window at all, in the polygraph he says that he looked out the window but made a point to not look in the backyard of the main house, for some reason.

    Also, Now hes saying he called the 'time' number around dawn instead of the 'important phonecall' He needed to make at dawn.
    Last edited by punklove; 11-29-2009 at 05:43 AM.

  28. #378
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    And really.. it only makes me more doubtful of his story that hes saying the two back doors were open all night.

    1) He was adamant before that he had locked all doors.
    2) If he were as scared as he said he was that night, would he LEAVE two doors wide open the entire night??? Wouldnt it make sense that he would close and lock all the doors given that he was so scared?
    3) With the two back doors wild open it makes it more unlikely that he couldnt hear things going on, certainly not when two doors to the tate home were also wide open which would also amplify the ability to hear sounds.

    I just dont see how its possible that with two doors in the guesthouse wide open, two doors in the tate house wide open he wouldnt hear anything while five people are being murdered. At least four of those people were screaming bloody murder and crying like mad for help for around 45 minutes and he didnt hear a word. It just doesnt make sense that other people heard the screams and he didnt.
    Last edited by punklove; 11-29-2009 at 05:39 AM.

  29. #379
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    I wonder why Bugs objected to how Garretson got the job? I didnt know that Garretsons only job was to take care of the dogs. It seems his ONLY job was to feed the dogs as they were able to run around the property at whim - He was paid 35 dollars a week, which is 203.33 per week in todays money.

    He was paid $808 (in todays money) a month, given a free place to live and had someone doing his laundry for feeding 3 dogs? Call me cynical but Im sure there were a million people that would have died for that job, what made him so special that he got it?

    Also, how was he tending to a bird that he said in the polygraph that the last caretaker got fired for killing?
    Last edited by punklove; 11-29-2009 at 06:00 AM.

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    Now he doesnt know if the woman was nude or not, because he was 'just walking by' though he said he saw a nude woman swimming during the polygraph.


    My question is this: If hes not hiding something then why so many conflicting statements? Why did he completely change his story? If he were innocent and knew nothing his story wouldnt change.
    Last edited by punklove; 11-29-2009 at 05:52 AM.

  31. #381
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    Garretson.

  32. #382
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    To Punklove:

    I wish that they could have somehow detained Garretson and gotten a psychiatric evaluation on him. I think that would shed some light on his inconsistent statements and how he comports himself.

    Is he retarded? Autistic? ADD? Asperger's? None of these?

  33. #383
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    as Scott said about the picture of garretson being released to start a life of therapy.

    kudos and thanks punklove.
    Knowlege Comes With Deaths release

    Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell

    "If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra

  34. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hippo View Post
    To Punklove:

    I wish that they could have somehow detained Garretson and gotten a psychiatric evaluation on him. I think that would shed some light on his inconsistent statements and how he comports himself.

    Is he retarded? Autistic? ADD? Asperger's? None of these?

    Honestly I think he saw something that scared him and isnt all that smart. If you notice in the polygraph he attempts to slall the conversation with the repetitive use of pauses and comments like "um" or "you know." Also, He attempted to change the subject many times throughout the questioning, attempting to distract the person giving the test. When asked certain questions he would add something to the statement that he knew would throw off the reading - Such as being told repeatedly to only answer yes or no, He would do that for a bit but then when certain questions asked he would answer with yes or no but then add other things to it, Oddly it seemed he did that with Sharon questions only. He also would provided more information than what was asked for, another tell of someone lying.

    The examiner did several things during this examination that I feel lax; He didnt ask a lot of very important questions, He interrupted Garretson in the middle of answers and he didnt ask questions again that werent answered properly. Such as the 'Did you go outside? Yes I didnt go outside' thing. The very act of him saying "yes" could have made the answer to that question seem truthful yet he very well could have been saying "yes" to the going outside part. This question should have been repeated. I also have an issue with the Inconsistencies in his story, It should have been noted and asked about again as well. People say that since he passed this test that he must be free but honestly the test is only as good as the person giving it and with that being said according to Bugs book the person giving the test felt that Garretson was being somewhat honest yet the facts were 'muddy'. He also said that he thought that Garretson had seen something and hid all night in the guesthouse.

    At this point I just find it very unlikely that we now know for fact that Tex and the girls were at the cielo house until Sharon moved in and that Garretson admitted in court that he had been inside the house before Sharon lived there. That proves that Garretson was inside the home at the same time that Tex and the girls spent a lot of time at the house, and its just a little too convenient that Both Tex and the girls were there and Garretson was there but never crossed paths. I have a big issue with Garretson saying that his lawyer told him the details that he knew, as none of those facts had been released to the public and the test was taken the day after the murders, one would think that his lawyer wouldnt be told all the details they were leaving out of the paper in hopes of catching the killer so quickly. I wish that someone would have verified with the lawyer if he did tell Garretson these facts so we could be sure Garretson didnt slip up. I find it hard to believe that the lawyer would have told him the COLOR of the rope, even if he did have acess to the details.. Why would the lawyer (or anyone) even think of saying what color the rope was? Is it possible he saw the crime scene and within answering the question about how they died he let the color slip? Think about it, anytime youve ever thought of anyone being killed would you even think about what color the rope was? Wouldnt it be more likely that it would just be told that she was hung? Did the police say.. "she was hung by a white rope?" its just not logical.

    So really, all the weird things he was doing seems to imply more that he was being deceptive than a psychological one.I dont think he was involved with the crimes, I think that he perhaps saw or knew something that scared him and he didnt want to have the same fate that the others met.
    Last edited by punklove; 11-29-2009 at 11:04 AM.

  35. #385
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    To Punklove:

    Well, it's no crime to be scared. I just wish that he would state clearly and definitively what he knows.

  36. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hippo View Post
    To Punklove:

    Well, it's no crime to be scared. I just wish that he would state clearly and definitively what he knows.

    I know, I really wish he would have been honest and just told everything he knows. Someone should have given him sodium thiopental (what people call the truth serum) and questioned him again.

  37. #387
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    Thanks Punk- I've never read Garretson's poly before! He seems quite confused at times, and inconsistant. Anyone who has ever watched Judge Judy knows the saying "if you're telling the truth, you don't need a good memory." I think that fits the situation here, he seems to have been evasive and granted, he may have been scared shitless. However, I tend to believe had Garretson just been scared, he still would have remembered that night's events clearly. So, my opinion is, he was stoned, which could answer why he didn't remember things, or drunk, or was hiding. Also, the statement about the Porsche is troublesome. Jay had the Porsche, had dark hair, but wasn't a heavy guy. So, who was the fat driver? I'm thinking a dealer possibly Garretson didn't recognise, or he did know who it was and kept quiet. As I think I said earlier, Garretson, I now hear, suffers brain damage from a motorcycle crash. What he says now-possibly lies. But he lied in 1969 as well, either to distance himself from the murders, or to cover up something he wasn't about to reveal. I have to wonder also-he had been charged with the murders, and in that case, wouldn't he spill everything he knew? I would- not taking a chance I may end up on trial.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  38. #388
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    Charles Manson

    Discuss.

    Was he a product of his bad childhood? His prostitute mother once sold him for a pitcher of beer. He was passed around and no one wanted him. Boys Town kicked him out. He was raped in prison.

    Personally, I have not one speck of pity for this fucker. Lots of kids have a hellish childhood but do not kill. I give you Dean Koontz, who's parents were rabid boozers, yet look where Dean is today. No matter what you come from, there is a line there where you should make your own decissions, where you wallow in the past and terrorize the future or you lift yourself up by the bootstrings and take a higher course. Charles Manson knew right from wrong and he chose the wrong path.

  39. #389
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    All Things Manson

    Didn't see one for this guy-if there is one, Mods can happily delete!! Again, so we don't clutter up Sharon's thread with talk about Charlie, his followers, etc. So, what I am starting with is an answer to CharlieMansonsBabyGirl's question about some sympathy for the killers. Her post is in Sharon's but I'll address it here. No, I have no sympathy for them. They were responsible for what they did. However, I won't attack anyone who does have some sympathy for them. Cults are dangerous, and Manson did use drugs, fear, and mind control over them. But, their actions were chosen, IMO.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  40. #390
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    awww I thought he was dead

  41. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Discuss.

    Was he a product of his bad childhood? His prostitute mother once sold him for a pitcher of beer. He was passed around and no one wanted him. Boys Town kicked him out. He was raped in prison.

    Personally, I have not one speck of pity for this fucker. Lots of kids have a hellish childhood but do not kill. I give you Dean Koontz, who's parents were rabid boozers, yet look where Dean is today. No matter what you come from, there is a line there where you should make your own decissions, where you wallow in the past and terrorize the future or you lift yourself up by the bootstrings and take a higher course. Charles Manson knew right from wrong and he chose the wrong path.
    I think most of us do know right from wrong. He had no excuse for what he did.

  42. #392
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    Other deaths? Is he dead?

  43. #393
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    Yeah, he had a rough life. But, so did thousands of people. He isn't like most people, I can say that. He is more of a con-artist than someone in control of a community of killers to me. I think his childhood of being unwanted had a lot to do with his manipulation of women later on. He couldn't get enough attention. I want to hate him, but somehow I don't. Dislike him, very much. But, Charlie was nothing without his followers. Just a used up jailbird. They made him into something that became twisted and evil. He was already evil. but going to full-blown murder? Something happened there, in his mind, and he either came to believe all the shit everyone was telling him, or he was completely out of his mind the whole time he was out. If you watch anything about him on tv, sorry-he seems too smart to believe what crap he was telling those kids. Master manipulator, con man and media whore, yes. His followers who still follow him are just so warped, they'll always be that way. Plus, a tv apperance here and there keeps their name in the papers.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    Other deaths? Is he dead?
    No, he's not dead, but this is where other living serial/mass murderers are listed. Carlton Gary, for one.

  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    No, he's not dead, but this is where other living serial/mass murderers are listed. Carlton Gary, for one.
    I get ya hun, my brain was a little slow!

  46. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    I get ya hun, my brain was a little slow!
    Well, no, you were justified. I asked a mod to move it to Everything Else if she thought it needed to be there. I wouldn't have posted it under Other Deaths if I hadn't seen Carlton Gary listed.

  47. 12-04-2009, 06:46 PM

  48. #397
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    Jay Sebring



    Jay Sebring


    Jay Sebring

  49. #398
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    Thanks for the pictures Punklove, Jay was a cutie. I think his career would have gone REALLY far, it already was. What a waste of life. He didn't start out with much either, just like Sharon & Roman, but through hard work he made a success of his life I admire that.
    "Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History" -
    Author Unknown

  50. #399
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    In the "What if" category; What if Terry Melcher had offered Charles Manson a recording contract?
    How differently would things have turned out, especially on August 8th 1969.

  51. #400
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    Good question, Sam. He had that "folksy" sound to him, while not a good singer, I've heard worse. Wonder if he would have been happy, and not ordered the murders. I've heard some of his music, nothing special. He may have gotten some fans, hard to say.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

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