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Thread: Charles Manson & The Manson Murders

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I've often wondered why Steve didn't just floor the accelerator when Tex pointed the gun at him? I know people say "they were scared, they didn't know what was going to happen". If he'd floored it and rammed the car through the gate it might have alerted the people inside the house and all hell would've broken loose. The phone in the guest house must've had a different line if Steve was able to call a friend, so maybe Tex only cut the line to the main house, and maybe William could've called the police?

    When I was 17 in 1972 I was invited out by a couple of guys. One of them was the boyfriend of my best friend who was out of town at the time. We went out drinking and then back to their mobile home. The guy who was dating my friend started some shit with me and told me he didn't like me and was going to whip my ass. As I was trying to get out the sliding glass door that was at the front of the trailer he reached around me, locked it, and started beating the shit out of me. The other one just stood there watching, but at one point the guy who was hitting me told him to go and get the gun. He punched me in the face and broke my nose, and chipped a front tooth, so blood was pouring everywhere. I decided he might beat the hell out of me, or kill me, but I wasn't going to make it easy for him.
    I kicked the glass door until it shattered in a hundred pieces, then rushed out the door to my mothers car. At that point he ran after me held a piece of the glass to my throat. I got in the car and behind the wheel only to realize that HE had the keys because he'd driven us home. I started yelling and honking the horn so much that it broke the metal horn ring of the 1969 Mercury. He backhanded me across the face and blood flew all over the inside of the windshield.
    By that time dogs were barking and lights were going on everywhere so he threw the car keys at me threatened me that if I called the police he'd kill me. I slammed his hand in the glass of the car door and locked it, then as he was trying to get his hand out I got the keys in the ignition and burned rubber getting out of there, then I turned the car around and tried to run his ass over as I was leaving.
    My parent's called the police and filed charges against him, but he always hid from them and didn't show up in court, and went AWOL from his rented trailer and job. He had prior charges and outstanding warrants, but as far as I know nothing ever happened to him.
    A few months later I saw them at a light in a car I'd bought later and he was in a different car as well. When he recognized me he hauled ass so fast I couldn't get his license number.
    So my point is, if someone threatens you with harm DON'T go quietly. Raise hell, scream, yell, do whatever it takes to get attention and get the hell out of there!
    Good grief Sam! That is one heck of a story. I'm so glad you got away and are here today to tell the story. Wow

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmbear View Post
    When Sharon Tate's murdered baby comes back to life, they can get out.
    You got that right WB!!

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCSunshine View Post
    Barker Ranch Gutted In Suspicious Fire

    http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/cr...ide-away-gutt/

    i saw that the other day. it is unfortunate---and not because of the manson connection like they said---with the mining history that is there and the fact that they put some restoration money into it...
    Lou: You know what? You've got spunk.Mary: Well, yes?Lou: I hate spunk.

  4. #304
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    They are all right where they need to be and need to stay there the rest of their lives.

    As far as Susan Atkins and the compassionate release? Boo effing hoo. Karma. I hope her death is slow and painful, which it appears to be.

    They get a lot more creature comforts in prison than a lot of people have walking around free, all on the taxpayers dime.

    I think Tex's "ministry" is a scheme, something to occupy himself and make himself look better. His sincerity is questionable.

  5. #305
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    Charles manson's overture to phil spector


    ??Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.?

    Winston CXhruchill

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMysterian View Post
    LOL Those two were made for each other.
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  7. #307
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    Soon after he settled in, "a guard brought Philip a note from Manson, who said he wanted him to come over to his [lockup]. He said he considers Philip the greatest producer who ever lived," Rachelle told Page Six. "It was creepy. Philip didn't respond.
    That's what's creepy to her. Oh, ok.
    .


  8. #308
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    Susan Atkins can cry for compassionate till the cows come home for all I care. Why should someone who had no compassion for their victims be entitled to any?

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    I'm shocked how many pro-Manson groups there are on facebook. Sick fuckers.

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    Phil Spector + Charles Manson = a match made in hell. Boy, what a pair. :O

  11. #311
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    I found 2 specials on the Manson Murders scheduled on MSNBS on Directv next Sat. or Sunday if anyone is interested. I forget their names but I've got them scheduled to record on the DVR.
    Last edited by TIMB1967; 08-01-2009 at 10:43 AM. Reason: added more info

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by DexterKitty View Post
    Phil Spector + Charles Manson = a match made in hell. Boy, what a pair. :O
    You know, I told my parents about that, and we just snickered....we couldn't help ourselves. The only thing that would top that? Scott Peterson writing fan letters to O.J. Simpson.....
    Tact is for those who are bad at sarcasm.

  13. #313
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    William Garretson-Hero or Villian?

    Guys, I decided to start this, with advice from Nessa. (Thank you, Nessa!) There doesn't seem to be a thread for him, and we can give our thoughts without driving Sharon fans nuts. So, what do you all think? I believe him to either be 1. a liar, or 2. delusional. And, if he really was on site that night, what did he do to survive? Was it dumb luck on his part, or something else?
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  14. #314
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    No idea, but interesting thread.

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    Who is he?
    I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!

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  16. #316
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    Here is a transcript of his polygraph test. Sorry if it is already posted elsewhere.
    http://www.charliemanson.com/documen...-polygraph.htm
    I thnk he was scred out of his mind they would kill him if they found him.
    Regards,
    Mary

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by STsFirstmate View Post
    Here is a transcript of his polygraph test. Sorry if it is already posted elsewhere.
    http://www.charliemanson.com/documen...-polygraph.htm
    I thnk he was scred out of his mind they would kill him if they found him.
    Regards,
    Mary
    Oooh, thanks for that link. Gotta go read.

  18. #318
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    Neil, Garretson was the lone survivor of the Tate massacre. He was the caretaker of the cottage, and we've been questioning his actions that night in Sharon's thread. I didn't want people, who reading about Sharon, become annoyed to read OT posts. I PM'ed Nessa, to be sure there wasn't a thread for this guy, and sweetie she is, got right back to me and told me if I wanted, start a new thread about Garretson only. So, here it is. Sorry if I wasn't clear about who Garretson is, I just assumed people would know. My bad.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

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    I couldn't understand how he could hide, but then I saw the pictures of the caretaker's cottage. It was a LOT bigger than I thought. If he hid behind/under a couch or bed, or in another room, they may never have seen him.

    I personally think that he heard everything, and hid until he thought it was safe to come out. I also think that he came out of the cottage at just about the time that Charlie and a few others came back. Maybe he ran and hid again, or maybe Charlie said something to him, who knows?

    I think that is why he has never told the truth about what happened. He is either going to look guilty or cowardly.

  20. #320
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    I think he is both a liar and delusional. I think he knows a lot more about that night then we will ever know. Maybe at this point he is no longer sure himself.
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  21. #321
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    This is a little OT, but what is with the emphasis during the WG poly exam on sex parties and being gay and who swam naked. etc.

    Nice thread, BTW.

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    I agree, Hagitha. He doesn't know the truth himself anymore. IMHO, he heard Steven being shot, ran, and hid until dawn. To establish a time frame, he said Steven arrived around 12, set the clock radio, and left about 12:15. This was the clock radio he didn't need, according to him. His original story was, after Steve left, he heard nothing, saw nothing. Now, he says he heard gunshots, people screaming and running, but hid for his life. Problem is, Pat checked the guesthouse, and said nobody was in it. So, either she lied, never checked, and neither did Tex, or she's telling the truth-it was empty. He's not a coward for hiding, who wouldn't have? But, the story change bothers me. Is he now appearing to be "braver" by saying, in effect, he knew people were being killed, but stayed put? Or, did he lie in the first reports he gave, and somehow passed the polygraph test? Cops said he was without emotion when arrested-shock would do that. But, if he really didn't know the murders happened, what shocked him? They said when they first saw him, in the cottage, he was out of it, not after they paraded him past Abigail. Questions are there, and I doubt any answers will come soon.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    This is a little OT, but what is with the emphasis during the WG poly exam on sex parties and being gay and who swam naked. etc.

    Nice thread, BTW.
    Yeah I was confused by that too. "Did he look gay?" Very odd! At that point did they want to pin it on somebody gay they had in mind?
    Regards,
    Mary

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    This is a little OT, but what is with the emphasis during the WG poly exam on sex parties and being gay and who swam naked. etc.

    Nice thread, BTW.
    Thank you-thought we needed one on him. I'm not clear on why the emphasis of the sex. The only answer I have is, immediately after the murders, the cops investigating told reporters "it looked like a typical fag murder." Their words, not mine!! I don't know what a "fag murder is." I know it came early, (the statement), along with rumors that Jay's pants were pulled down, etc. Maybe nobody said that, and reporters made it up. Or, I'm speculating, they thought Steven and William, or another party, or combo, had freaked out and did the killing. There were so many rumors about sex and drug parties, I think at first cops went with the gossip and checked all angles. They lost precious time following leads that they concluded were false, while the killers remained free to kill more.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  25. #325
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    I think he knew more than he let out, but time and being scared at the time (maybe on something?) may have fuzzed his memory. Interesting thread.

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by STsFirstmate View Post
    Yeah I was confused by that too. "Did he look gay?" Very odd! At that point did they want to pin it on somebody gay they had in mind?
    Regards,
    Mary
    Maybe they felt it was odd that Steven visited William so late just to try and sell him a clock radio.

  27. #327
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    Different times, I guess.

    Maybe back then the shock value of ARE YOU GAY?????? was one of the worst things you could come up with for shock and shame value to unsettle the person being interviewed. It's worth noting it worked somewhat when WG claims he slept thru the oral sex.

    Or maybe the Poly guy was a perv and just wanted to know whose boobies floated free in the pool

  28. #328
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    I don't blame William for hiding, unless they are armed, most people would. Hiding and surviving that nightmare does not make him a hero, though, or a villian--if he did in fact hide, whether inside or outside. He would have been a hero if he had somehow managed to run for help, but he did not.

    He passed the polygraph test...yet I still have questions. Remember, someone, I believe one of the killers, said it was so quiet you could hear ice tinkling (my word) in martini glasses up and down the canyon. Yet, he said that all he heard what sounded like firecrackers going off about the time Steven would have gotten to his car and started to leave.

    Think about this: Manson and the killers knew that house because they had been there before, especially when Morehouse lived there for a while before Sharon and Roman moved in. Manson knew who was living there. Do you honestly think he was unaware of William living in the guesthouse? Remember, this was not a random massacre. Manson sent the death crew to that very house. Do you honestly think that those butchers would have knowingly left a survivor when they where told to kill every soul on that property.

    Something stinks.

    I am going to say this, and you can flame me if you want, but it's just speculation.

    What if William had prior knowledge of what was coming down? That would answer a lot of questions.

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Different times, I guess.

    Maybe back then the shock value of ARE YOU GAY?????? was one of the worst things you could come up with for shock and shame value to unsettle the person being interviewed. It's worth noting it worked somewhat when WG claims he slept thru the oral sex.

    Or maybe the Poly guy was a perv and just wanted to know whose boobies floated free in the pool
    Yeah, maybe it was thrown out there to check if his honesty or deception on the meter.

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    I think it WAS late to just drop by. I know Steven had 2 jobs, I believe, and wonder if he was due at work in the morning. He was at Cielo until 12:15, then was going to a friends' house after that. I know, being young, he probably didn't make sleep a big priority. If we knew more about Steven as well as Garretson, we'd know the answers. Steven Parent is the almost forgotten victim in Tate Labianca. Besides from Sharon, IMO, one of the more tragic ones, too. Just a young kid, not a care in the world, and his life is snuffed out so brutally The only reason we know of him, like Garretson, is because of August 1969. Honestly, I don't think the cops knew what or who to focus on....nothing like this had happened before, and it was so senseless, they tried to make some sense of it, and went with the homosexual, and drug angle for awhile. You had people lying to the cops, saying things that were lies about the victims, and they didn't know what was and was not true. And, I heard Garretson met Parent hitching....when was this? Garretson seemed to hitch a lot, and why would Steven just assume it was fine to drop by Cielo, and he called the other friend (Jerrold Friedman?) before going there. It would have been easier to call the guesthouse, I'm sure Garretson gave out the number as well as the address. I don't know.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  31. #331
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    You won't be flamed by me, Cin, thanks for replying. I wonder, with all the parties at Cielo during spring and summer, did Tex and the girls go and meet Garretson? He mentioned a large party where help with parking was necessary, and I just doubt he didnt go over to the main house and party along. Pic Dawson, friend of Voytech, was there, and someone had to say "who are you?" to which WG would say he was the caretaker. So Manson and crowd likely knew he was in residence, in the guesthouse, and never checked it out the night of the 8th. It was never denied Tex and the girls, and I suspect Manson, knew Cielo well. Very well. It's one of the reasons it was picked. They knew the guesthouse was there, CM even tried to visit Rudy there.. They either disobeyed Manson that night, by not "killing everyone there," or there wasn't anyone there to kill. I agree, I'd have hidden too, and don't make William out to be a coward. My questions revolve around his changing stories which shows me, he's either lying now, lied then, or is nuts and doesn't remember. Possibly all 3.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

  32. #332
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    I think you are right it is all three. He's crazy. We know he's a liar ( one way or another) And then there's all that Rosie-Tate Polanski crap. That show's he is delusional. I would be curious to know where he got his drugs from since we know he at least smoked pot and probably more. He was isolated without a car. Perhaps someone he met during that summer of '69 at Cielo was supplying him with it. It would be interesting to know who.

    When was his last interview does anyone know?
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  33. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagitha View Post
    I think you are right it is all three. He's crazy. We know he's a liar ( one way or another) And then there's all that Rosie-Tate Polanski crap. That show's he is delusional. I would be curious to know where he got his drugs from since we know he at least smoked pot and probably more. He was isolated without a car. Perhaps someone he met during that summer of '69 at Cielo was supplying him with it. It would be interesting to know who.

    When was his last interview does anyone know?
    Me too. There were lots of dealers during Gibby and Voytech's stay-including Joel Rosteu and Pic Dawson. Unless Garretson had it "set up" his regular drug supply would be delivered to him, he had to deal with the ones at Cielo. Why not? The dealers don't care, and Garretson was being paid for his stay, so he wasn't broke. I can't see him wandering around the Strip trying to buy, when he knew where a steady supply of drugs were coming in already. He did do more than pot-he took to dexadrine (speed) the night before, that we know of. Why would someone take speed that late, unless he needed to be awake all night? I doubt anyone, in their right mind, is going to take speed late in the evening. I could be wrong, but I think his last interview was on the A&E show, Murdered Innocence. That was the one he changed his story on, and updated to say he heard and saw things he originally denied.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamebabby View Post
    Me too. There were lots of dealers during Gibby and Voytech's stay-including Joel Rosteu and Pic Dawson. Unless Garretson had it "set up" his regular drug supply would be delivered to him, he had to deal with the ones at Cielo. Why not? The dealers don't care, and Garretson was being paid for his stay, so he wasn't broke. I can't see him wandering around the Strip trying to buy, when he knew where a steady supply of drugs were coming in already. He did do more than pot-he took to dexadrine (speed) the night before, that we know of. Why would someone take speed that late, unless he needed to be awake all night? I doubt anyone, in their right mind, is going to take speed late in the evening. I could be wrong, but I think his last interview was on the A&E show, Murdered Innocence. That was the one he changed his story on, and updated to say he heard and saw things he originally denied.
    I wish I'd have seen that show. I didn't know he had changed his story.

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    The show is on YouTube. Garretson changed his story quite a bit, his first report was he saw and heard nothing. His later interviews say he heard gunshots, saw the door handle turned, and saw Pat chase Gibby across the lawn, and heard Gibby say "Stop, I'm already dead." Yeah, Hon, just go to YouTube and type in Murdered Innocence, it's there, along with others that are interesting. Some though, I commented on, as they were inacurate about that nights' events. Be warned though, if you dont like gore, they show crime scene photos.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

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    Last edited by cash; 11-26-2009 at 06:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagitha View Post
    I think he is both a liar and delusional. I think he knows a lot more about that night then we will ever know. Maybe at this point he is no longer sure himself.
    Ditto!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    This is a little OT, but what is with the emphasis during the WG poly exam on sex parties and being gay and who swam naked. etc.

    Nice thread, BTW.
    I had the same question.. Its odd that they were more focused on what he saw the victims do and who he had sex with, it seems that they changed topic at whim as well if he had a hard time answering.

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    I dont think this kid had anything to do with this mess. He passed the test and how manhy times did they administer this test to him? HBe later got mixed up with this moron that is going on about the baby and he also got intol heavy drugs and probably read everything he could get his hands on about the murders and read that about what Gabby said. He decided in his drug ravaged mind that he saw it all and he didnt. If he was stoned or scared he probable hid in the house somewhere and even if susan or any of them checked out his cabin they apparently didnt go in or they would have seen the TV on and the lights and KNEW someone was there.
    I read he had earphones on that night listening to music. I think it wasnt his time to die and the family made a mistake and missed him. Charlie knew that Doris Days kid Melcher lived there and he had been there before so he know the layout of the place and I think when they killed Steve they thought they killed the caretaker so they didnt go out of their way checking out his cabin. This man is rning woith fruitcakes and became one and he wants to be acknowledged as being part of that bloody mess. I dont think he saw or heard a damn thing. He took tha test so many times rthat if the cops thought he even saw something they would have arrested him and put him in the same cell as Manson. This guy in neither a villan ro a hero, he is just some poor sap that missed being a victim and now wants a little publicity,

  40. #340
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    You could very well be right, Hon. I don't disagree he was put into a catch-22 situation that night. I just don't "get" his story changing so much from 1969, and the Murdered Innocence show.
    You are not a color to me. You are not a religion,sexual orientation, age or IQ. You are not a male or female. You are not political, nor pretty or ugly. You are my brother and sister, and I love you no matter what you may be.-I was Goth before they called it Goth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pamebabby View Post
    Guys, I decided to start this, with advice from Nessa. (Thank you, Nessa!) There doesn't seem to be a thread for him, and we can give our thoughts without driving Sharon fans nuts. So, what do you all think? I believe him to either be 1. a liar, or 2. delusional. And, if he really was on site that night, what did he do to survive? Was it dumb luck on his part, or something else?
    I think that he was a young kid who probably heard all of the carnage going on out in the yard and pretended that he didn't know anything so that the authorities wouldn't mess with him. I can't blame the guy, I mean what could he have possibly done to save any of them? he would have been butchered too so he stayed low and didn't go out there after because he was scared or that maybe he fell asleep after the carnage. I wouldn't have gone out there either. I would have locked myself in that guesthouse and found a knife or a baseball bat or tire iron or anything to protect myself from those people.
    Last edited by STRAIGHT; 11-27-2009 at 04:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    I dont think this kid had anything to do with this mess. He passed the test and how manhy times did they administer this test to him? HBe later got mixed up with this moron that is going on about the baby and he also got intol heavy drugs and probably read everything he could get his hands on about the murders and read that about what Gabby said. He decided in his drug ravaged mind that he saw it all and he didnt. If he was stoned or scared he probable hid in the house somewhere and even if susan or any of them checked out his cabin they apparently didnt go in or they would have seen the TV on and the lights and KNEW someone was there.
    I read he had earphones on that night listening to music. I think it wasnt his time to die and the family made a mistake and missed him. Charlie knew that Doris Days kid Melcher lived there and he had been there before so he know the layout of the place and I think when they killed Steve they thought they killed the caretaker so they didnt go out of their way checking out his cabin. This man is rning woith fruitcakes and became one and he wants to be acknowledged as being part of that bloody mess. I dont think he saw or heard a damn thing. He took tha test so many times rthat if the cops thought he even saw something they would have arrested him and put him in the same cell as Manson. This guy in neither a villan ro a hero, he is just some poor sap that missed being a victim and now wants a little publicity,
    As Pam said, you're probably right. We're just slinging speculation of what could be, but probably isn't.

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    I think he must have known Charlie and the Family, possibly even knew what was going down, so I agree with your Cindy. But at the same time, could it be survivor's guilt? Something along the lines of feeling so guilty at having survived the massacre and what with having read more and more about it, the gravity of it must have sunk in over time. What if he felt so guilty at having survived it that the only way to live with it was to have been more a part of it than he actually was? If that makes any sense? Problem is, I can see both sides, him knowing Manson and feeling guilty at having escaped. Without Charlie to mastermind his brain, eventually, it must have sunk in.

    Just speculating, mind. But I really believe that he knew Charlie, there were parties, people hung out with each other. Wasn't that the done thing? Being inclusive. And not locking your doors.

    Michelle Phillips mentioned seeing some of the Creepy Crawleys one night in her house. So locking windows and doors more likely than not really wasn't a priority then and there. Can someone who's old enough to remember weigh in on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrnorrischangestrains View Post
    I think he must have known Charlie and the Family, possibly even knew what was going down, so I agree with your Cindy. But at the same time, could it be survivor's guilt? Something along the lines of feeling so guilty at having survived the massacre and what with having read more and more about it, the gravity of it must have sunk in over time. What if he felt so guilty at having survived it that the only way to live with it was to have been more a part of it than he actually was? If that makes any sense? Problem is, I can see both sides, him knowing Manson and feeling guilty at having escaped. Without Charlie to mastermind his brain, eventually, it must have sunk in.

    Just speculating, mind. But I really believe that he knew Charlie, there were parties, people hung out with each other. Wasn't that the done thing? Being inclusive. And not locking your doors.

    Michelle Phillips mentioned seeing some of the Creepy Crawleys one night in her house. So locking windows and doors more likely than not really wasn't a priority then and there. Can someone who's old enough to remember weigh in on this?
    I was 13 in 1969 and remember quite well when most people didn't feel a need to lock their doors when they went off on errands or visiting or even at bedtime. It was a more innocent age and most folks still believed in the good of mankind vs the rare evil among them. We always locked our doors because mama was a paranoid schizophrenic; plus when I was around 2 a man did come in on us and scared the shit out of all three of us (he was drunk and had mistaken our house for the house next door) But my grandparents and both of my aunts never locked their doors. Even as late as 1982 my Aunt Pam still left her doors unlocked at night. And to this very day Aunt Mildred will go off to the store or somewhere, leaving her house unlocked

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    I dont think this kid had anything to do with this mess. He passed the test and how manhy times did they administer this test to him? HBe later got mixed up with this moron that is going on about the baby and he also got intol heavy drugs and probably read everything he could get his hands on about the murders and read that about what Gabby said. He decided in his drug ravaged mind that he saw it all and he didnt. If he was stoned or scared he probable hid in the house somewhere and even if susan or any of them checked out his cabin they apparently didnt go in or they would have seen the TV on and the lights and KNEW someone was there.
    I read he had earphones on that night listening to music. I think it wasnt his time to die and the family made a mistake and missed him. Charlie knew that Doris Days kid Melcher lived there and he had been there before so he know the layout of the place and I think when they killed Steve they thought they killed the caretaker so they didnt go out of their way checking out his cabin. This man is rning woith fruitcakes and became one and he wants to be acknowledged as being part of that bloody mess. I dont think he saw or heard a damn thing. He took tha test so many times rthat if the cops thought he even saw something they would have arrested him and put him in the same cell as Manson. This guy in neither a villan ro a hero, he is just some poor sap that missed being a victim and now wants a little publicity,
    He didnt have earphones on, He had the music on level four and said that at times he was walking around the guest house and could faintly hear the music, He also only took the one polygraph (which ill post shortly) and he had no history of drug abuse other than marijuana which he hadnt had in a while before the murders. He also drank a beer or two randomly, though not often. Im not sure what I think of him and I only pay attention to the things he said directly after this event, not what he started talking about years later. I think anyone reading his polygraph would wonder how honest hes being about things. Some examples below:

    I posted photos of the guest house on the sharon tate thread and there is only a small window facting the main house thats quite high from the guest house, so its not really possible to see a tv (im not even sure there was a tv in there) but the light by the door was turned on. Im sure they would have been able to hear the radio or whatever by the door but who knows what happened or why they didnt find him. Whos to say that they didnt look through the guesthouse and just didnt find him?

    Mainly I want to know what it was that he was so scared of that night? He keeps saying he was really scared and what I want to know is what made that night any different to him than all of the other nights? He was there for months, Why THIS night was he scared to death but can say no reason as to WHY he was scared?
    Last edited by punklove; 11-29-2009 at 04:39 AM.

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    He didnt have on earphones, he said that he had the volume up to four and would be moving around in the quest house at times only faintly hearing the music.

    Im not sure what I think of him and I only pay attention to the things he said directly after this event, not what he started talking about years later.

    I think anyone reading his polygraph would wonder how honest hes being about things. Some examples below:

    BOLD red are things within the polygraph I find troublesome, My comments in BOLD blue.

    TAPE #32116
    TAPE RECORDED POLYGRAPH EXAMINATION OF
    WILLIAM ESTON GARRETSON ON
    AUGUST 10, 1969, 1625 HOURS
    AT PARKER CENTER
    QUESTIONED BY: LT. A. H. BURDICK, SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATIONDIVISION
    TRANSCRIBED BY: STELLA C. ROTH, INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION
    ASSISTED BY: LT. A. H. BURDICK
    (*) INDICATES UNINTELLIGIBLE

    Q By LT. BURDICK: Do you want to have a seat over there next to the wall? Have you ever had one of these tests before?
    A No.
    Q Never have, huh?
    A No.
    Q Well, we will fill out an information card and get down what this is all about. You have talked to your attorney?
    A Yes.
    Q And been advised of your rights and all that sort of stuff?
    A Yes.
    Q Fine. Give me your last name.
    A Garretson.
    Q How do you spell it?
    A G-a-r-r-e-t-s-o-n.
    Q Your first name?
    Page 2
    A William.
    Q And your middle name?
    A Eston. Eston, E-s-t-o-n.
    Q Let's see, today is what? The 10th, huh? And your home address?
    A Well, my last address is 10050 West Cielo Drive.
    Q 1-0-0--
    A Yeah.
    Q 5-0--
    A Cielo Drive, C-i-e-l-o.
    Q C-i-e-l-o Drive?
    A Yes, that was in Beverly Hills. My address in Ohio, do you want my address in Ohio?
    Q No, your phone number there?
    A 274-0965--0965.
    Q Speak up a little bit. I got to--
    A Okay.
    Q 0965.
    A Yes.
    Q I got a bad ear, and I don't hear too well out of this one. Do you have a business address or a place of employment?
    A No, I was taking care of Mr. Altabelli's dogs while he was in Europe.
    Q How did you come upon that job?
    A Well, I met Mr. Altabelli on--in Hollywood. And
    Page 3
    he, you know, he wanted--he's just got back from Europe, and he let some woman stay there before that he knew for twenty years, and, you know, she partied every night and everything and the place was torn up and he--and just, you know, he told me if I wanted a job, I could come up and clean his house, and I was going to go back to Ohio in March, and I was picked up for Possession of Marijuana, and it was lowered to Visitation. And so, you know, after that I was going to go back to Ohio, but he was going to Europe and he wanted to--he said the dogs liked me and everything (being early march and the dogs 'liked' him, it would see its certainly possible he was there in Feb, when tex and the girls were staying there) , and he wanted to know if I would stay on while he went to Europe, then he would be back, you know, and he asked me, you know, he'd give me an airplane ticket home and everything.
    Q Who was the woman that had your job before?
    A Edith Stoltan (phonetic).
    Q Stoldan?
    A Stoltan or something like that.
    Q Stoltan?
    A Yeah, it's--well, there's a big list, you know, of everything, you know, that's on the door by the kitchen. There's a great big list with names on it, you know, people I call if I need anything.
    Q Oh, people to call if you need anything? She was one you could call for information?
    A Yes.
    Q You mean they didn't part unfriendly?
    Page 4
    A Well, they was--they were, you know, friends for twenty years or something like that.
    Q And she lived in this house that you lived in?
    A No, no, she lived down--down in Hollywood.
    Q But she had lived in this house on-
    A --when he went to Europe before.
    Q On Cielo before?

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    A Yeah.
    Q And she partied every night and he didn't like this?
    A Well, that's from what I hear, you know, the place was a mess when I got there and everything.
    Q What place was a mess?
    A The guest house.
    Q The guest house?
    A Yes. She was taking care of the dogs and the bird. The bird died and everything. And so, you know, he was going to put the dogs in a kennel, but he did that before and Christopher kept breaking out, you know, and they tried to kill him, so--
    Q They had to?
    A No, they thought they would kill him, you know, if he put the dogs in the kennel again when he went to Europe.
    Q How many dogs?
    A Two poodles and a weimaraner, or whatever you call
    Page 5
    it, I guess it was.
    Q How much did you get paid to do this for him?
    A About $35 a week.
    Q Plus room and board?
    A Yes.
    Q They paid your food bill?
    A No.
    Q Just board?
    A Just board.
    Q For the room, I mean.
    A I stayed there and, well, anyway if I needed dog food or anything, you know, I'd just call 'em, and they paid for that and did my laundry.(This comes into play later in the polygraph)
    Q Uh huh. Who lived there with you?
    A Well, I asked a friend of mine that just got out of Vietnam to come and live with me; and I think it--this was sometime in May--late May, and he lived with me for about a month until--well, I had him thrown out, you know, I told him to get out. That was before July--it was still late June, and I kicked him out.
    Q Why?
    A Because, you know, well, they had the--had a party one time over there, and they had
    champagne for grownups, and he took a few bottles out, you know, and I told him not to, and he went ahead and done it anyway; and I told him to get out, but he already done it when I told him not to do it.
    Page 6
    Q Well, how did you know he was going to do it? Why would you warn--couldn't you say, "Hey, don't take any champagne?"
    A He took it before. He took it before, and I told him not to take any more, and he went ahead and took some more, you know. There was a girl there. Him and, you know, a girl and another girl. One of the girls I knew. They all lived out in Indio, and they stayed there for awhile; but after I kicked him out, that's the last time I saw him.
    Q What was his name?
    A Darrell Kistler.
    Q And what were the girls' names?
    A Debbie Tidwell and Patty something (*) I'm not sure. I think it's Montgomery or something like that.
    Q And they--all four of you lived in this guest house for awhile?
    A No, no, no, they came and visited us every once in awhile. They'd stay for a night or so but, you know, they never lived there for any length of time. He lived there for a month with me.
    Q Then after he left the girls stayed for awhile?
    A No, no, they left with him.
    Q They left with him?
    A Well, you see he had a car and they had a car; and when I kicked him out, you know, well they went back to Indio with him.
    Page 7
    Q Both of them?
    A Yes.
    Q One, didn't she stay with you?
    A Well, one was only 17. She graduated this year, you know, and she was looking for a job in L. A., and she couldn't find a job, so she went back to Indio.
    Q Are they both from Indio?
    A Yes, both the girls.
    Q Which one was your date?
    A Debbie Tidwell.
    Q Tidwell?
    A Yes.

    __________________

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    Q When was the last time you saw her?
    A That was while--when I kicked him out. That was the last time I saw her.
    Q How long ago was this?
    A Well, like I say, it was the late part of June.
    Q June?
    A It was in the late part of June. I don't remember exactly when.
    Q How old are you?
    A Nineteen.
    Q When is your birth date?
    A August 24th, 1949.
    Q Where were you born?
    A Martins Ferry, Ohio.
    Page 8
    Q What kind of a car do you have?
    A Well, I don't have a car. I used to have a '68 Camaro when I lived in Ohio, but I sold it before I came out to California.
    Q Do you have a drivers license?
    A Yes.
    Q California drivers license?
    A No, it is an Ohio drivers license.
    Q You married, divorced, separated, single?
    A Single.
    Q Children?
    A No.
    Q How far in school did you go, Bill?
    A I graduated in '67.
    Q High school?
    A Yes.
    Q What is your mother's name?

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    A Mary Garretson.
    Q Mary?
    A Yes.
    Q Your father?
    A William Garretson.
    Q Both still living?
    A Yes.
    Q Got any brothers or sisters?
    A Yes.
    Page 9
    Q How many?
    A One sister and one brother.
    Q Older or younger?
    A My sister is 22, and my brother's 17.
    Q Where are they now?
    A In Ohio living with my mother.
    Q Your sister isn't married yet?
    A No, she's not married.
    Q Have you been living alone since Kistler left?
    A Yes. Well, see, I lived alone when Mr. Altabelli left, in March, and well Roy Plank came up to see me ever once in awhile.
    Q Who?
    A Roy Plank.
    Q Plank?
    A Yes, he's down in Camp Pendleton. He's a marine down there.
    Q Roy Plank, P-1-a-n-k?
    A Yes.
    Q He come to visit you once in awhile?
    A Yeah, he came to visit ever once in awhile.
    Q Okay.
    A And the last time I heard, why he went A.W.O.L. and they caught him in Lancaster, Ohio, and they took him back down to Pendleton to the brig or something.
    Q Who else has come up here? Roy Plank, Kistler--
    Page 10
    A Yes.
    Q --Tidwell?
    A Tidwell and that other girl, Darrell's friend. There's a few people have been up there. You know, I was hitchhiking and they brought me- all the way up--all the way up to the house. There was one person that came in one time. He asked for a drink of water--oh, yeah, there's another girl that stayed there before with me, too. She's in Washington, and she had friends out in Inglewood, and this guy came up one time to visit one night, you know, it was in July. I think it was the middle of the month, and he asked for a drink of water, and he came in and kept talking, and talking, and talking (*) with me and her. He was a Japanese. That's when I felt I (*) with him. He asked the girl and me if we wanted to go out for dinner and everything (*).
    Q What branch of the service is Kistler in?
    A The army.
    Q And he was from Vietnam?
    A Well, he spent fourteen months in Vietnam and made sergeant.
    Q Is he out now?
    A Yes, he's out.
    Q And who is this other one that's in the brig? The one that was-
    A Roy Plank.

    Page 11
    Q Plank?
    A Yes.
    Q Is he still in the service now?
    A Yes, he's still in the service.
    Q As far as you know, where is he?
    A In the brig, probably.
    Q Where?
    A I don't know. He might not even be in the brig; he might be in the hospital because he had a pin in his leg from his knee to his hip from a motorcycle accident (*) in Ohio.
    Q Have you been to a doctor for anything in the last month?
    A No.
    Q As far as you know, how is your health?
    A Perfect. It's in excellent condition.
    Q Did you take any medications, tranquilizers, cold tablets, or anything like this in the last day or so?
    A Well, Thursday, the last time I had was four cans of beer. I had, you know, I had the gardener buy it for me because I'm not of age. In Ohio you could be 18, you know, and out here you've got to be 21 to buy it.
    Q Who is the gardener?
    A Tom and Dave, they're brothers.
    Q Tom and Dave what?

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    A I can't remember their last name.
    Page 12
    Q They're brothers?
    A Yes.
    Q And they're the gardeners. How often do they come up to work?
    A They just visit about twice a week.
    Q When was the last time they were there?
    A Well, the last time, see Tom came up, he brought some girl up with him, you know, and that was Thursday. That was when I had him buy the beer. It was last Wednesday, Thursday.
    Q Did they use your pad?
    A Yes. Yes, they did, and I drank some beer while they made out.
    Q You ever been to or referred to a psychiatrist?
    A No.
    Q You been arrested for Possession?
    A Yes.
    Q What else?
    A Well, back in Ohio, I got--I don't know if it would be a misdemeanor or what; it was, uh, Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor. That was when I just turned 18; and, well what the story was, I was with this one kid that, you know, I knew, and he went and bought these girls a beer, and I happened to be with him when he was in the store, so I was charged for it.
    Q How long you been in California now, Bill?
    Page 13
    A Since about the later part of October.
    Q '68?
    A Yes.
    Q Ten months, huh?
    A Ten months, uh huh.
    Q Been in the Los Angeles area the same time?
    A Yes.
    Q Now, one gardener came up Thursday; is that right?
    A Yes.
    Q Who was the girl?
    A Uh, what's her name--I can't even think of her name. She lived on--I don't know her name. I can't think of it right now. Karen or something like that; I'm not sure But she lives way on the other side of Benedict, you know, in the Valley or something.
    Q While they used your pad, what did you do?
    A I drank some beer.
    Q Where?
    A In the living room.
    Q You make out with her, too?
    A No.
    Q Huh?
    A No.
    Q Did he do any gardening that day?
    A I don't know. He came out about, see, you know, in the afternoon; but I mean he also came up at night, and he
    Page 14
    brought up his girl friend.
    Q He had been up there Thursday afternoon, then he came back again Thursday night?
    A Thursday night with his girl.
    Q With his girl?
    A Yeah.
    Q Did you know they were coming?
    A Well, they usually--well, you know, that's--I don't know if I should even tell you, but he's married, you know.
    Q Uh huh.

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