Kurt Cobain

[interrestedintn]

I never thought about it. From the pic I was talking about that I saw, there probably wasn't any eyes. I agree about this pic not being him http://www.findadeath.com/deceased/c...obain/kurt.jpg
This is not the photo I saw. The one I saw was actually on rotten.com but was yanked the next day. Like I said before, what face was left was kurts. It was obvious but how could a .20 gauge gunshot not leave an exit wound? The pic I saw had a lot of his head gone. The buckshot from a .20 gauge sort of spreads out when it's fired. It would take part of someone's head off for sure. I'm sure that this will end up being reopened too. I wondered if it was a 30 inch barrel. If it was, there's no way he could've done it himself. There are shorter barrels available though in the same model of gun so if he had a shorter barrel, it is possible.
The fact that there wasn't much blood there makes me wonder if he was even killed there in the greenhouse or if he was killed somewhere else then moved. I hate to be so morbid but I once saw a man killed with a .12 gauge and it was NOT pretty. There is very little difference in a .20 gauge and a .12 gauge. Just a little size difference in shells and a .12 gauge has a little harder kick. Of course, it would depend on what type shell he used too. I think I read that he didn't use a high powered shell so the wound wouldn't be as bad as with a high powered shell. I don't know. There's so much that we'll never know. I hope they do reopen the case, even if it wasn't murder, there are still a lot of questions to be answered.

[seanikhy]

i agree if it was a shorter barrel, lets say 24" then it could be done. 9 times out of 10 a 20g 12g 16g 28g .410 would take the top of your head off. if the barrel was just in the mouth it would make more of a mess. 3" for the pellets to spread. up against the roof of the mouth no spread. sometimes the brain will work as a bumper. a sponge. it took the force. we have all heard of a man or woman shot in the head with a 9mm and they have lived and the bullet was removed.

sorry just my gun knowledge coming out

oh and it was a 2.75 shell not 3" magnums in the gun

[Hidium]

Do you mean this gory pic? http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/c...obain/kurt.jpg

Its been going around for years, but I'm almost positive it's not Kurt.

I totally agree with you that this IS NOT Kurt. Someone one posted this for sick shock value. For one thing, someone in protective surgical clothing is doing some kind of medical intervention on this poor soul attempting to save his life. Notice the shirt is off and there are electronic monitoring devices on the chest of the victim. Hardly something that would be attempted on a body that had been laying dead for several days. If the guy in this gorey picture lived, which I doubt, if he's not a vegetable, he probably wishes he hadn't lived, unless he's a really 'glass half full' kind of guy.

[Jack Raines]

A few years ago Ted Nugent was on Howard Stern, making fun of Kurt for using a "quail gun" for suicide. He acted like he was suprised it even killed him, and I think he implied Kurt might have just bled to death. He said "only a drug addict would use quail load for a suicide".

I don't think there was as much damage as many seem to think.

[interrestedintn]

That's what I read....quail load. That's kind of like what people use to shoot dogs and cats to keep them out of their trash cans around here. It doesn't kill them but it hurts enough that they never come back. Some people even take out the pellets and load the shells with salt.
Honestly, if I were gonna kill myself, I wouldn't use quail load either. I'd be afraid it wouldn't kill me and I'd end up suffering a lot. If he bled to death though, why wasn't there a lot of blood? It's all very confusing. I know a man who shot himself in the face with a shotgun.....I'm not sure what kind. He lived though. He thought he was going to prove a point to his girlfriend for cheating on him by killing himself in her front yard at a party. Yeah. He's still alive and pretty much doesn't have a face now. I see him all the time.
Ted certainly knows his guns and he's right.....no one would shoot themselves with quail load. I'm surprised it even killed him. Maybe it didn't. Maybe the overdose did. I don't know. I'm more confused now than ever.

[seanikhy]

story is he bought the gun for home protection, a light load shell would hurt like hell and the intruder would run. if you were going to go out and buy a gun to off yourself you wouldnt buy a multi shot shotgun 20g with light load shells. you would buy a 12g with short barrel or barrels, and 3" magnum shells. why put 3 shells in the gun? why buy a gun that was too long to put in your mouth and pull the trigger. whoever pulled the trigger didnt know what shells were in the gun... but just the blast with the fibre or plastic wadding would be enough to enter the brain. with or without pellets in the shell.

Makes you think...................

[cachluv]

"If he bled to death though, why wasn't there a lot of blood?"

---Because at the time he was shot he was already dead or very, very close. There is no way he had time to shoot up, take it out of his arm, roll down his sleeve and button his shirt, wrap his H kit up nicely and put it back in the cigar box, position the gun, and pull the trigger with the toe that was inside of his shoe.
No way.


"why put 3 shells in the gun? why buy a gun that was too long to put in your mouth and pull the trigger. whoever pulled the trigger didnt know what shells were in the gun"

---No one who is going to kill themselves loads 3 shells. And I think you are right about the type of gun he chose vs. what it was ultimately used for.
Plus----HE LITERALLY COULDN'T REACH THE TRIGGER AND HIS FRIGGIN' SHOES WERE STILL ON!! How did he shoot himself???
WTF is WRONG with the police!!!?????????

With or without CLovers' involvement, he was murdered. I can't be sure she was involved, seriously, it could be coincidental that she was shopping him for a hit right about that time. I believe El Duce, and only because he passed a polygraph test. That toothy git was not the type who was intelligent or experienced enough to fool a polygraph. And also that he coincidentally died 8 days after telling a reporter on film for the first time ever that he was approached by CLover and offered money to kill Kurt Cobain.

There's just too much that doesn't fit. Even if she's left out of it all, there's just too much that doesn't fit.

[sordid1982]

No one who is going to kill themselves loads 3 shells.

True, but is it possible that the gun was already loaded before hand, and he just grabbed it and shot?

[seanikhy]

Im sure the police know who did it. after he died there were many copycat suicides from fans. by this time the police prob had all there evidance and realised it wasnt suicide but didnt want to look stupid and get sued by all the relatives of fans who shot themselves,..

[Hidium]

A few years ago Ted Nugent was on Howard Stern, making fun of Kurt for using a "quail gun" for suicide. He acted like he was suprised it even killed him, and I think he implied Kurt might have just bled to death. He said "only a drug addict would use quail load for a suicide".

I don't think there was as much damage as many seem to think.

I knew a drug addict who shot himself in the head with a small caliber gun and survived. The bullet actually circumnavigated his head, between his skin and his skull. He shot himself above his ear, so to look at him, he wasn't disfigured at all. Being a drug addict however, it wasn't long before he died of an overdose, even after being given this second chance at life.

[**Jenna**]

It's just sad not knowing if Kurt killed himself or really was murdered. We'll probably never know the truth.

[seanikhy]

it will come out in the end

[SheBoss]

i have the same model gun. 20g. with 30 inch barrel. i believe this was same length. ok my gun was empty. yes i checked 3 times. i put it in my mouth and yes was scary but i new it wasnt loaded. i couldnt get to the trigger. even tried with my toe. could be done. but he had shoes on. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Just out of curosity, how tall are you? Kurt was a little bitty fella. If you're taller that 5' 6" or so, it would be even harder for Kurt to reach the hammer than you.

[SheBoss]

AAw I used to like Ed. I can't look at him now.

Now RaRa, we must forgive Ed of his one "indescretion". Everybody likes to go slumming now and then. At least he didn't marry her or some such nonsense.

[SheBoss]

Where was the trajectory of the blood? Provided, of course, the bullet exited the head.

According to the diagram that Tom Grant drew of the death scene, Cobain was laying prone in the middle of the floor. I always had in my mind that he was propped up against a wall or piece of furniture. I don't know if anyone who would lay down to kill themselves. Common sense tells us that he would sit on the floor, pull the trigger and the dead body would fall back - blood spatter would be above him. If he was already dead or dying, would the murderer prop him up to shoot him? That would take 2 or more people. The better way would be to lay him on the floor, then shoot him to look like a suicide - blood spatter would be mostly on the floor. Or is Tom Grant's drawing wrong?

http://www.sshep.com/kurtnew.htm - from Jack Raines post, drawing is almost 1/4 down the page

[seanikhy]

Just out of curosity, how tall are you? Kurt was a little bitty fella. If you're taller that 5' 6" or so, it would be even harder for Kurt to reach the hammer than you.

Im 5ft 10

[seanikhy]

Where was the trajectory of the blood? Provided, of course, the bullet exited the head.

According to the diagram that Tom Grant drew of the death scene, Cobain was laying prone in the middle of the floor. I always had in my mind that he was propped up against a wall or piece of furniture. I don't know if anyone who would lay down to kill themselves. Common sense tells us that he would sit on the floor, pull the trigger and the dead body would fall back - blood spatter would be above him. If he was already dead or dying, would the murderer prop him up to shoot him? That would take 2 or more people. The better way would be to lay him on the floor, then shoot him to look like a suicide - blood spatter would be mostly on the floor. Or is Tom Grant's drawing wrong?

http://www.sshep.com/kurtnew.htm - from Jack Raines post, drawing is almost 1/4 down the page

The drawing is correct. there was no exit wound. very little blood and no splatter. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[SheBoss]

The drawing is correct. there was no exit wound. very little blood and no splatter. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

No exit wound? A 20 gauge shotgun with little to no scatter pattern and there's no exit wound? Well, if it is quail load like was stated above, maybe I could see it. You Sean; however, would know far more about that with your knowledge of guns. I'm just going on common sense...

[seanikhy]

very true. 9 times out of 10 you would have a big exit wound. they were low powered shells. it does sound strange i know. common sence would tell you big mess.
but it doesnt always happen that way.

[interrestedintn]

I don't know. I just really don't want to think that he killed himself. He was a sensitive guy and if he'd known anyone would kill themselves just because he did, I don't think he would've done it at all. I too believed El Duce. He was already getting enough attention from his "rape rock" to really need to tell a big lie like this. Plus, Courtney is just a money hungry tramp. I don't know if she actually had him killed but she made him really unhappy. He loved his daughter though and I just don't buy that he thought she would be better off without him. It seems to me like he would've been too concerned about leaving the poor thing to have to live with Courtney. I do wish they'd reopen the case. I agree that they goofed and didn't want to admit it.

[seanikhy]

I don't know. I just really don't want to think that he killed himself. He was a sensitive guy and if he'd known anyone would kill themselves just because he did, I don't think he would've done it at all. I too believed El Duce. He was already getting enough attention from his "rape rock" to really need to tell a big lie like this. Plus, Courtney is just a money hungry tramp. I don't know if she actually had him killed but she made him really unhappy. He loved his daughter though and I just don't buy that he thought she would be better off without him. It seems to me like he would've been too concerned about leaving the poor thing to have to live with Courtney. I do wish they'd reopen the case. I agree that they goofed and didn't want to admit it.

Remember the suicide note with differant handwriting at the end and the piece of paper they found that she had been practicing his hand writing. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[interrestedintn]

Yeah I think that if she didn't have anything to do with it, she was planning to. She wasn't there when he died so we know she didn't write the last lines unless she'd written them and given them to the person who did it to plant it there. Who knows? I just know that if I were gonna kill myself, I wouldn't want to use a quail load. I'd want to make sure I did die and quickly. That alone makes it hard for me to believe that he shot himself.

[seanikhy]

Yeah I think that if she didn't have anything to do with it, she was planning to. She wasn't there when he died so we know she didn't write the last lines unless she'd written them and given them to the person who did it to plant it there. Who knows? I just know that if I were gonna kill myself, I wouldn't want to use a quail load. I'd want to make sure I did die and quickly. That alone makes it hard for me to believe that he shot himself.

oh he did die quick. very little blood. so the heart had stopped pumping. the truth will come out.

[interrestedintn]

I certainly hope so. It's already been what...14 years? Ten years from now after any law suits are probably not gonna happen, someone will get curious and reopen the case and the truth will come out.

[seanikhy]

I certainly hope so. It's already been what...14 years? Ten years from now after any law suits are probably not gonna happen, someone will get curious and reopen the case and the truth will come out.

It will happen. and i believe 3 people will go to prison for this.

[cachluv]

Lay it on me: who's your 3 ???

Let me guess:

Courtney Love
Allen Wrench (whatever the hell his real name is)
Cali, the disappearing nanny

Am I close?

[seanikhy]

Lay it on me: who's your 3 ???

Let me guess:

Courtney Love
Allen Wrench (whatever the hell his real name is)
Cali, the disappearing nanny

Am I close?

very very close

[cherryghost]

Lisalouvers opinion on the photo would be good here! Lisa.......!

[seanikhy]

good idea

[**Jenna**]

I don't know where the hell I've been ,I liked Kurt and was sad when he died. But honestly I didn't even know that people thought he may have been killed until I found FAD message board. How long has this theory of him being killed been going around?

[cachluv]

As soon as he was found and the pieces began to fall into place. Right off the bat there were major inconsistencies, mystery deaths, etc.


seanikhy, don't be so poopy, what 3 were you talking about? You think Dylan Carlson played a part in it?

[seanikhy]

As soon as he was found and the pieces began to fall into place. Right off the bat there were major inconsistencies, mystery deaths, etc.


seanikhy, don't be so poopy, what 3 were you talking about? You think Dylan Carlson played a part in it?

me poopy! never luv.

I cant say anymore on the 3. i can talk about what happend etc. sorry

[seanikhy]

As soon as he was found and the pieces began to fall into place. Right off the bat there were major inconsistencies, mystery deaths, etc.


seanikhy, don't be so poopy, what 3 were you talking about? You think Dylan Carlson played a part in it?

trust me. the shit will hit the fan. there are people working on opening the case again. if the police allow it.

[interrestedintn]

I thought it right off the bat.....just my personal opinion. Then people started putting two and two together and it became a conspiracy theory. I agree with seanikhy....someone will go to jail. It makes me sad for Kurt. He tried all his life to be respected then had it all taken away because he'd achieved it and trusted the wrong people. He was a tender hearted soul. I remember when he and Courtney first started dating. I thought then that she just seemed like she could chew him up and spit him out....she's definately got some qualities that didn't coincide with his. She's such a piranha. He was a sweet person aside from his addiction. I hope she rots for her involvement. She's done nothing since he died except rake in money that he made. I think his daughter deserves it all. She was robbed of her father. She never even got a chance to know him and she's probably been filled with all kinds of lies. She deserves to know the truth as well as Kurt deserves justice.
I know that his fans shouldn't have killed themselves because he died but in a way, even those fans who died's families deserve for Kurt to get justice. In a twisted way, their family members died as a direct result of who killed Kurt's actions. It's really sad.

[**Jenna**]

I don't even have a clue as to what its like to have a parent that died and having some people saying suicide and others that it was murder. I don't know how a child can live like that. I feel so sad for his daughter.

[seanikhy]

his hand was holding the barrel of the gun. if you were to fire a 20g semi auto shotgun, with a low load shell, (semi auto does absorb some recoil) you wouldnt be holding it unless the but or stock. (shoulder part) was in your shoulder.

[cachluv]

"I don't know how a child can live like that. I feel so sad for his daughter."

---I have to wonder what bullshit CLover has planted in their daughter's head.


"me poopy! never luv.

I cant say anymore on the 3. i can talk about what happend etc. sorry "

---No offense, but that's messed up. You made first mention of it. Unless you are with the Seattle Police or the FBI then where's the beef? What harm is done in speculation?

[seanikhy]

"I don't know how a child can live like that. I feel so sad for his daughter."

---I have to wonder what bullshit CLover has planted in their daughter's head.


"me poopy! never luv.

I cant say anymore on the 3. i can talk about what happend etc. sorry "

---No offense, but that's messed up. You made first mention of it. Unless you are with the Seattle Police or the FBI then where's the beef? What harm is done in speculation?

im sorry but cant name names. just trust me on this. please

[cachluv]

Then please don't introduce for topic that which you have no intention of commenting on yourself. It makes others feel like chumps.

[seanikhy]

Then please don't introduce for topic that which you have no intention of commenting on yourself. It makes others feel like chumps.

i am sorry.

[RaRaRamona]

Then please don't introduce for topic that which you have no intention of commenting on yourself. It makes others feel like chumps.

Yeah that's actually really rude. And lame.

[ichabodius]

Here's an autopsy phot
http://www.nirvanafreak.net/pics/cobainautopsy.jpg

[seanikhy]

Here's an autopsy phot
http://www.nirvanafreak.net/pics/cobainautopsy.jpg

no its not.

[ichabodius]

no its not.

Okay.

[seanikhy]

Yeah that's actually really rude. And lame.

i shouldnt have said anything, and im sorry. just trust me

[RaRaRamona]

i shouldnt have said anything, and im sorry. just trust me

Nope

[seanikhy]

ok

[lisalouver]

Lisalouvers opinion on the photo would be good here! Lisa.......!

I looked at the two linked pictures and neither of them appear to be what I would have thought to find from the description and the sketch.

Also - in regards to the pic with the floor pattern, photoshop esp at those photo restoration places can totally copy exact patterns. I just had that done on some photos of me when I was a child in the 1970's and had crazy pants on!

Neither of those photos are official crime scene photos and the first one appears to be a totally made up photo.

Every gunshot death I have ever went to is different. Some have their head and face gone, some only have a small wound. It depends on the gun, the manner of death, many, many things.

And I have never seen a gun still in someones hand. Never, ever, ever.

[interrestedintn]

Yeah.......that's some poor smash headed chump who got his photo splashed on the internet and blamed for being Kurt.....I wonder who it really is? It's an ER photo or Emergency Surgery photo or something. Evidently they're trying to save whoever that is but it doesn't look like there's much hope.

[seanikhy]

I looked at the two linked pictures and neither of them appear to be what I would have thought to find from the description and the sketch.

Also - in regards to the pic with the floor pattern, photoshop esp at those photo restoration places can totally copy exact patterns. I just had that done on some photos of me when I was a child in the 1970's and had crazy pants on!

Neither of those photos are official crime scene photos and the first one appears to be a totally made up photo.

Every gunshot death I have ever went to is different. Some have their head and face gone, some only have a small wound. It depends on the gun, the manner of death, many, many things.

And I have never seen a gun still in someones hand. Never, ever, ever.

lisa. some people are saying im wrong.. is it possible for no exit wound? could a hand still be on the gun after the recoil?

sean