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Thread: Natalie Wood

  1. #301
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach2 View Post
    Investigator or not you are missing the point. If you fall into very cold water the air leaves your lungs like a gut punch. Didn't you read me saying I had it happen to me? A life guard grabbed me by the hair and pulled me out otherwise I would have drowned in about ten seconds. I was unconscious almost instantly and I was a trained swimmer. I was not aware the water was 45 defrees though. The lifeguard knew what was going to happen to me before I hit the water.
    You know what? I am not going to argue with you.

    You keep on with what you think and I will go on with my job.

    Have a great day!

  2. #302
    TheMysterian Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    This is just one side of the story. I don't recall Walken ever telling his side, and Natalie can't.
    So true!

  3. #303
    cherryghost Guest
    A Drowning is something I have directly been affected by, due to recent circumstances, in its all encompassing mysteriousness (as you know Lisa)!

    Not being able to swim and approaching water is not something I can fathom! But we are mortals and make mistakes!

    Wagners account sounds like emotions ran high and Natalie after a few? drinks got angry or defiant and decided to act on her own emotions! His account wasnt going to change anything only publicity!

    If all he did wrong was have an argument with his wife over a emotional infidelity why should that be aired at the time, it would only infuse hysteria in impulsive fans who wouldnt see them as real people with real lives anyway!

    Even if we can swim the water is a powerful force of nature and unpredictable!

    Im haunted by dreams of drowning lately after my ex work friend died so innocently in an act of kindness, selflessness and action!

    I did wake up freezing a few nights after his death and have found a few of my ex workmates have experienced the same thing! Australia is a hot place but in winter we do experience low degrees and it was a cold Saturday late arvo! We swim from babies, have pools and are surrounded by water! But its also wild water and rips and danger! My beautiful friend just made a bad judgement of bodily strength and the water!

    Relative innocent actions of innocuous reaction!

    It was a cold July day here when my friend went into the water to get a childs ball, but I dont think that killed him! The water,sudden unexpected depth, his panic and being unable to swim to the surface may have! But I dont really know! Others went in after him and were able to stay in the water trying to find him!
    I hear people who cannot swim sink because they dont know what to do! I dont know, the questions are immense and sometimes we make mistakes! And damn then the loved ones left behind have so much to deal with! There is no time limit on dealing with this stuff or an expiry date in defence of Wagner!
    Last edited by cherryghost; 08-17-2008 at 02:03 AM.

  4. #304
    John Connor Guest
    She caught them having sex and stomped off in a big hissy fit. There was an article in Vanity Fair and one of the crew swears he heard Wagner and Walken mocking her from the deck (not knowing she was drowning) about being such a drama queen. Also not drunk? It is well known she was so drunk in a restaurant that afternoon and throwing herself at Walken they all had to leave. I don't think there was any murder but the truth has never been told. She was a desperate, needy over 40 actress married to a homosexual which she was well aware of. Booze did her in.

    Also I thought there was evidence that she had tried to climb back into the dinghy but kept slipping.

  5. #305
    Mach2 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    You know what? I am not going to argue with you.

    You keep on with what you think and I will go on with my job.

    Have a great day!
    But you did argue with me and you were wrong. What you really mean is you're a cop and Im not. LOL! I tell you exactly what happens to a person who hits 45 defree water and you tell me you know better. That's why I make three times whay you make!

  6. #306
    cherryghost Guest
    I love Vanity Fair but like any magazine I dont believe all I read! Bugger I love Vanity Fair but know it has an agenda like all high profile magazines and you cant believe all you read! Sometimes I think Vanity Fair is just a beautiful expose of everything .....be it the good the bad or the ugly! But I cant stop reading it! Its always so well written!

    Some amazing people have forensic science for cause of death studied, work on and practice it almost an art form in my HOP! Degrees of a few may make a difference and other factors need to be ruled in!

    They are dealing with the facts or as close as we can get to it! They relay it to us on this forum with total integrity and check their facts very closely!

    Mach2 what is your factual experience theory and basis aside from a very lucky escape?

    Only a Kindly and curious meaning to a question and query here!

    I wish my friend were as lucky as you were, you were saved possibly due to certain circumstances Lisa could easily explain! Give her a go!
    Last edited by cherryghost; 08-17-2008 at 03:02 AM.

  7. #307
    John Connor Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cherryghost View Post
    I love Vanity Fair but like any magazine I dont believe all I read! Bugger I love Vanity Fair but know it has an agenda like all high profile magazines and you cant believe all you read! Sometimes I think Vanity Fair is just a beautiful expose of everything .....be it the good the bad or the ugly! But I cant stop reading it! Its always so well written!

    Some amazing people have forensic science for cause of death studied, work on and practice it almost an art form in my HOP! Degrees of a few may make a difference and other factors need to be ruled in!

    They are dealing with the facts or as close as we can get to it! They relay it to us on this forum with total integrity and check their facts very closely!

    Mach2 what is your factual experience theory and basis aside from a very lucky escape?

    Only a Kindly and curious meaning to a question and query here!

    I wish my friend were as lucky as you were, you were saved possibly due to certain circumstances Lisa could easily explain! Give her a go!

    I do agree with you on the validity and sensationalism of magazine articles BUT it is very strange how quickly this man's comments were buried. I believe it was the lead fo a book. Of course it was all countered with he had drug problems in the past blah blah....I tend to believe it.

  8. #308
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    from the faq
    6) Help keep the forum organized for all users

    A) Before posting a new topic, use the Search feature, found at the top of every page, to see if a similar topic has already been posted. If there is already a thread about the person or thing you want to post about, do not post another one. Even if you are talking about a new facet of a case, you are still talking about the same case, so keep it in one thread.

  9. #309
    cherryghost Guest
    Jefe were the comments buried or never really exposed? Did J R have a drug problem!

    Im a bit of a Chris Walken fan cus I think he was very on the edge, quite charismatic especially in Deer hunter and very gorgous at that time!

    It doesnt suprise me they would have had an attraction

  10. #310
    FannyB1923 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach2 View Post
    They were all drinking like fish and fighting like dogs. Natale had no choice but to split. Unfortunately she wasn't in condition to get from the yacht to the dingy. Death by misadventure. The water off Catalina are very cold even in summer. A less than capable swimmer like Natale could easily easily slip underwater and swallow water and drown almost instantly unless someone saw her go under and pull her out to do AR which was not the case.
    I recall hearing that the dinghy had come untied and was slapping against the side of the boat; that she was trying to tie it back up.
    With all the alcohol involved, I have to believe that it was a accident. RJ has had decades to go over that day again and again in his mind. He admits to his feelings of jealousy over Walken....but wouldn't he always want to be the leading man in Natalie's life?
    If this accident hadn't happened, they would have all got up the next day with terrible headaches, headed back to port and gone on with the movie.

  11. #311
    Elizabeth Guest

    Question & Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    from the faq
    6) Help keep the forum organized for all users

    A) Before posting a new topic, use the Search feature, found at the top of every page, to see if a similar topic has already been posted. If there is already a thread about the person or thing you want to post about, do not post another one. Even if you are talking about a new facet of a case, you are still talking about the same case, so keep it in one thread.
    Jefe, merge?

    As for Natalie, I believe it was all a case of bad circumstances, with alcohol fanning the flames.....from what I have read of her, if she thought she was going to see *anyone* (meaning if she was planning on going to shore) she would have dressed correctly/made herself look like Natalie Wood, rather than thrown on her parka over her pajamas.....she probably heard the dinghy, and rather than talk to RJ after the fight, took it upon herself to go tie the damn thing up, fell and slipped in to the water....

    I do wonder why after all this time RJ has decided now is a good time to talk about it.....he must need the moneypublicity very badly.....

    Walken is a good actor (and very funny when he is on SNL) but he does have a creepy vibe for me.....and unless he corroborates RJ's story (and I don't really see that happening) all we will have is RJ's version of the story....

  12. #312
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by buzzzx View Post
    Robert Wagner talks of Natalie's death for the first time.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4547321.ece
    Like Cindy said, it is only one side of the story. I agree some things just don't add up. I don't know about any homosexual acts on RJ's part and I am not entirely sure I buy into that but I do believe something more happened that night that we man never know about. I remember when she died very clearly, she was one of my fav actresses and so beautiful. Such a shame.

  13. #313
    erictheking97 Guest
    Have Wagner and Walken ever spoken since that day?

  14. #314
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by erictheking97 View Post
    Have Wagner and Walken ever spoken since that day?
    ummm, great question! From what I understand and I could be wrong but I believe there is a lot of hostility and tension between them and I don't think they talk at all

  15. #315
    sunshine74137 Guest
    I just don't see someone who is nervous around water stepping off on a swim step. I am afraid of heights and there's not enough wine in the world to get me on top of a tall building.

  16. #316
    erictheking97 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine74137 View Post
    I just don't see someone who is nervous around water stepping off on a swim step. I am afraid of heights and there's not enough wine in the world to get me on top of a tall building.
    I agree, all the beer in the world wouldn't make me love spiders

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine74137 View Post
    I just don't see someone who is nervous around water stepping off on a swim step. I am afraid of heights and there's not enough wine in the world to get me on top of a tall building.
    How do we know the dinghy was even loose?
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  18. #318
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine74137 View Post
    I just don't see someone who is nervous around water stepping off on a swim step. I am afraid of heights and there's not enough wine in the world to get me on top of a tall building.
    Agreed, I'm terrified of sharks and no matter how many Rum Punches or Bahama Mamas I had, I would never, never go in the ocean. Never!

  19. #319
    leevancleef Guest
    So Natalie was preparing to go to bed and then she decided to go and check the dinghy.... Natalie's story ( the night she died) upsets me for some reason...we'll NEVER know what really happened.

  20. #320
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    I am under the belief that Walken has never publicly told his story out of respect for Natalie.
    Wanna see my grandkids?

  21. #321
    Elizabeth Guest

    Others

    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    How do we know the dinghy was even loose?
    Other people (friends of the Wagners) have said that the dinghy had a history of banging up against the side of the boat, and if you were in the lower room (the bedrooms) you could *really* hear it....so as Natalie was in her pajamas (and not in her clothes) my guess is she was either in bed or getting ready for bed, the noise was irritating her and so she went up to just tie the thing up

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Walken creeps me, my BIL looks exactly like him. Good actor tho.

    As far as what happened on the boat, I still think it's fishy, and as others said, the fact that Walken never talked is too weird.
    have you seen this?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMZwZiU0kKs
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  23. #323
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    Yeah, absolutely hilarious!

  24. #324
    NewYorkDoll Guest
    it's 27 years later, one of them should come clean about what really happened. unless they were blackout drunk and don't have clear memories.

    i do think it was an accident and no foul play but geez, they had been on a drunken tear for the whole trip. that's why i don't think either of them want to talk about it. i think they were so wasted, they did not even notice her absence.

  25. #325
    NewYorkDoll Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Karma View Post
    I am under the belief that Walken has never publicly told his story out of respect for Natalie.
    and probably out of respect for his wife.

  26. #326
    cachluv Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by erictheking97 View Post
    I agree, all the beer in the world wouldn't make me love spiders
    Quote Originally Posted by keeunjames View Post
    She caught them having sex and stomped off in a big hissy fit. There was an article in Vanity Fair and one of the crew swears he heard Wagner and Walken mocking her from the deck (not knowing she was drowning) about being such a drama queen. Also not drunk? It is well known she was so drunk in a restaurant that afternoon and throwing herself at Walken they all had to leave. I don't think there was any murder but the truth has never been told. She was a desperate, needy over 40 actress married to a homosexual which she was well aware of. Booze did her in.

    Also I thought there was evidence that she had tried to climb back into the dinghy but kept slipping.

    ---I also have always wondered why someone who was so afraid of the water would go out to the deck, drunk, at night, wearing a nightgown and a parka and step out onto a swim step. I don't think that's what happened.
    I think Keeun comes the closest. I think there was jealousy on Wagner's part alright, I think was a combination of seeing her flirt with his man and Walken liking the attention from both of them. It's just an opinion, not a slam or insult on gays or on men.

    I married a gay dude back in the '80s. When it all came out, we discovered that we had been with several of the same guys. Me, before our marriage, him, during. One in particular took great joy in causing problems between us when we were already trying our (my) best to be civil, we already had enough going on at the time.

    It happens.

  27. #327
    mrnorrischangestrains Guest
    I first consciously saw Walken in James Bond and then was told that "there was a case, she went overboard and they suspect it was murder " or some such thing, that raised my interest in him and her. Not saying that's how it happened, just how someone not into Hollywood told it to me.

  28. #328
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by mrnorrischangestrains View Post
    I first consciously saw Walken in James Bond and then was told that "there was a case, she went overboard and they suspect it was murder " or some such thing, that raised my interest in him and her. Not saying that's how it happened, just how someone not into Hollywood told it to me.
    I seriously believe her death was accidental. I don't believe it was murder.

  29. #329
    leevancleef Guest
    i also believe it was accidental, but id like to know if Natalie got outside to check the dinghy or because she was upset for a recent argument, or whatever... id really like to know..

  30. #330
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by leevancleef View Post
    i also believe it was accidental, but id like to know if Natalie got outside to check the dinghy or because she was upset for a recent argument, or whatever... id really like to know..
    Yeah as far as that goes, I definitely think there is more to the story than we may ever know

  31. #331
    erictheking97 Guest
    I don't think for a minute it was murder, well it certainly wasn't premeditated,
    Manslaughter is more apt.

  32. #332
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    I guess I can't say because I have not been in that position. However, had she been sober, things would have been a lit different, I suspect.

    We will never know what happened that night, who even knows if RJ's account is true? She could have smashed a bottle on the table and he is protecting her all these years later.

    I will tell you what, I have worked in law enforcment/death investigation for many years and small women who are drunk can do some serious damage.
    YOu are so right lol I had to arrest a 6'2 Hells A. one time. I asked him if he was going to go peacefully or did I have to hurt him? He said..OPEN the fkng door for me, "there is nothing more dangerous than a small woman with a gun who has lost it "
    Just because a woman is small does not mean she canot cause trouble or do damage to another person .
    I do't think Wagner hurt Wood at all. I amsure because of theri previous marriage and her cheating and because she was a notorious flirt and liked to have affairs with her co stars that Wagner was suspicious , he did marry her twice LOL Walken never talks about anything. I think they all got drunk had a fight she went to bed, went to tie down the dingy and drowned. The fight couldn't have too bad of he and Walken went back to boozing together. If Wagner had killed or hurt her I think Walken would have talked and told.

  33. #333
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by beatlebaby4 View Post
    Like Cindy said, it is only one side of the story. I agree some things just don't add up. I don't know about any homosexual acts on RJ's part and I am not entirely sure I buy into that but I do believe something more happened that night that we man never know about. I remember when she died very clearly, she was one of my fav actresses and so beautiful. Such a shame.

    I don't buy into the homsexual bs either.

  34. #334
    NOVSTORM Guest

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    I work as a death investigator and have investigated many drownings. It is proven though that you can survive in cold water.

    But that was not what I was getting at. What I was getting at is had she stayed sober or not gotten so drunk, there would not have been a need at least in her mind to get into a dingy in the dark.
    I remember that little kid in chicago that fell into the lake ,(not completely frozen) and was in the water for over 7 minutes under the ice. He lived. and up at Flowage when we were takingthe boat out for the last time on the bow and we hit a sand bar and I went flying.I had on a down jacket and couldn't get it off and kept going under. My brother jumped in and got me and that frigging water was damn cold. It was in late Oct.
    I am a decent swimmer but that down jacket filled up with water pretty fast and wearing boots lol YOu can survive, if people can jump off the Golden Gate bridge from that height and into those cold waters and live, I guess that proves it.

  35. #335
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach2 View Post
    But you did argue with me and you were wrong. What you really mean is you're a cop and Im not. LOL! I tell you exactly what happens to a person who hits 45 defree water and you tell me you know better. That's why I make three times whay you make!
    Tell that to people wo have jumped off the Gg bridge and lived and this happened to me too and here I am hacking away at this key board. Also Lisa is a very highly intelligent woman and we really do not care how much she makes lol

  36. #336
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    I remember that little kid in chicago that fell into the lake ,(not completely frozen) and was in the water for over 7 minutes under the ice. He lived. and up at Flowage when we were takingthe boat out for the last time on the bow and we hit a sand bar and I went flying.I had on a down jacket and couldn't get it off and kept going under. My brother jumped in and got me and that frigging water was damn cold. It was in late Oct.
    I am a decent swimmer but that down jacket filled up with water pretty fast and wearing boots lol YOu can survive, if people can jump off the Golden Gate bridge from that height and into those cold waters and live, I guess that proves it.
    Oh yea, good examples, but yes, you sure can survive in cold water.

  37. #337
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mach2 View Post
    But you did argue with me and you were wrong. What you really mean is you're a cop and Im not. LOL! I tell you exactly what happens to a person who hits 45 defree water and you tell me you know better. That's why I make three times whay you make!
    I'm not a cop. I am a death investigator and you have no idea what I make. You can say you make 10 million a week if you want to, this is the internet.

    You igrnorance of death investigation and drownings (cold water or not) speaks for itself.

    Carry on smartly.

  38. #338
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    Tell that to people wo have jumped off the Gg bridge and lived and this happened to me too and here I am hacking away at this key board. Also Lisa is a very highly intelligent woman and we really do not care how much she makes lol
    Thanks Nov!!!

  39. #339
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    My husbands cousin went through the ice in February on a snowmobile. He had full gear on and had to swim a bit of a distance to shore but he made it. He said it was damn cold but he kept calm and just swam and he was alright. The ice was very thin and breaking where he went through. It was a dumbass move on his part. The snowmobile on the other hand needed lots of new parts and fixing up. Needless to say, he wont be pulling that move again!

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by beatlebaby4 View Post
    My husbands cousin went through the ice in February on a snowmobile. He had full gear on and had to swim a bit of a distance to shore but he made it. He said it was damn cold but he kept calm and just swam and he was alright. The ice was very thin and breaking where he went through. It was a dumbass move on his part. The snowmobile on the other hand needed lots of new parts and fixing up. Needless to say, he wont be pulling that move again!
    l'd be taking his snowmobile away!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  41. #341
    John Connor Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    Other people (friends of the Wagners) have said that the dinghy had a history of banging up against the side of the boat, and if you were in the lower room (the bedrooms) you could *really* hear it....so as Natalie was in her pajamas (and not in her clothes) my guess is she was either in bed or getting ready for bed, the noise was irritating her and so she went up to just tie the thing up

    They had a crew on board. Why would she do this being terrified of water? Why wouldn't she tell RJ or Walken to ie it up? Makes no sense. Sounds like something got her very upset .

  42. #342
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    l'd be taking his snowmobile away!
    It wasn't his it was his Dads and he was 48 at the time!!

  43. #343
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Desertrose View Post
    Just like Sharon Tate, we will never know the truth. I have never liked Robert Wagner after Natalie died, his stories never added up. I like Christopher Walken, and then again, when I look at him, I think, "he knows what happen that night" . I will always believe that Natalie's death was not an accident. Then again, Jill St. John is still alive....watch out Jill......don't go boating.......

    There is no mystery about SharonTate is there??

  44. #344
    Noelle Page Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by keeunjames View Post
    Why would she do this being terrified of water? . . . .Sounds like something got her very upset .
    Yeah...she seems to have been a very emotional person, and Lana has written that you crossed Natalie at your peril. An alcohol-aggravated state of rage can lead to impulsive, self-destructive gestures, perhaps to punish someone (ultimately yourself).

    Just a guess, obviously, I have no idea, and I feel sorry for all of those involved. I'm sure the regret and sorrow is deep and real all around.

    One lesson is obvious: do not drink to excess on boats.

  45. #345
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    how many "crew" were on the boat? should'nt they have been taking care to secure the dinghy?

  46. #346
    Nicki Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    Thanks so much...that was terrific. He is a great dancer and entertainer. Loved him in ""Hair Spray".

    As for Natalie. I wish Chris Walken would just finally come how and clarify alittle more on what happen that evening. One thing I remember being stated back then by Dr. Thomas Noguchi. After the autopsy & investigation, Natalie had left scratches on the side of the dingy where it looked like she tried to climb into it. So that would kind of contradict what Wagner's version of she slipped and knocked herself out therefore drowning right away. She could have hit her head but tried to hold onto that dingy. Natalie was found in the same cove where she was floating with the down jacket still on and the dingy nearby.. She had to be drunk otherwise in order to swim I think she would have taken the coat off. Plus people in other boats heard someone screaming for help.
    Whatever happen it was so very sad especially for the daughters. I think the youngest Courtney, eventually got engaged to Max Leroy. Then he was killed in a motorcyle accident.

  47. #347
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicki View Post
    Thanks so much...that was terrific. He is a great dancer and entertainer. Loved him in ""Hair Spray".

    As for Natalie. I wish Chris Walken would just finally come how and clarify alittle more on what happen that evening. One thing I remember being stated back then by Dr. Thomas Noguchi. After the autopsy & investigation, Natalie had left scratches on the side of the dingy where it looked like she tried to climb into it. So that would kind of contradict what Wagner's version of she slipped and knocked herself out therefore drowning right away. She could have hit her head but tried to hold onto that dingy. Natalie was found in the same cove where she was floating with the down jacket still on and the dingy nearby.. She had to be drunk otherwise in order to swim I think she would have taken the coat off. Plus people in other boats heard someone screaming for help.
    Whatever happen it was so very sad especially for the daughters. I think the youngest Courtney, eventually got engaged to Max Leroy. Then he was killed in a motorcyle accident.
    How sad for Courtney. I didn't know that. She has had a lot of death in her life. Poor thing

  48. #348
    Elizabeth Guest

    Exactly!!

    Quote Originally Posted by keeunjames View Post
    They had a crew on board. Why would she do this being terrified of water? Why wouldn't she tell RJ or Walken to ie it up? Makes no sense. Sounds like something got her very upset .
    Exactly--I think it was the alcohol *and* the disagreement with Wagner....and maybe, because of the fight, she thought "Screw him, I wouldn't ask him for anything; I will take care of it myself!!!" And slipped and fell....

  49. #349
    Adiposeur Guest
    God, RJ and Natalie were so beautiful. The photo montage in the OP (down at the bottom) is awesome.

    I don't think we'll ever know the truth. I wonder if RJ and Walken also hold their tongues out of respect for Natalie's children? That article doesn't really clear anything up. RJ just confirms what has been the official story all along.

  50. #350
    beatlebaby4 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Adiposeur View Post
    God, RJ and Natalie were so beautiful. The photo montage in the OP (down at the bottom) is awesome.

    I don't think we'll ever know the truth. I wonder if RJ and Walken also hold their tongues out of respect for Natalie's children? That article doesn't really clear anything up. RJ just confirms what has been the official story all along.
    Exactly

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