Ellen/Elliot Page

[pkstracy]

Elliot Page, Formally known as Ellen Page, has announced they are transgender. Elliot/Ellen came out in 2016 during a Time To Thrive conference and married Emma Porter in 2018. The Actress/Actor said they are very happy with their decision.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...185442000.html

I wish them the best and a happy life.

[Mansfield67]

Well, if he is happy that's all that matters. But while I'm here, Ellen was nominated for an Oscar as Best Actress a few years ago, if nominated again that will put him in the Best Actor slot I imagine. There have been rumblings about doing away with him/her categories and just calling it Best Actor which covers everyone. Male, female, trans, gay, straight, gender fluid, and I am sure there are more that I am missing. I think it's too much, I'm gay and I can't keep up with all these terms people want to be identified by these days! LOL.

[pkstracy]

I know I hear you I cant keep up with them either. I agree if he is happy that is all that matters

[john*thomas]

Be happy. I'm not so big on people releasing statements "I'm happy". Just be so.

I understand the argument it helps others who feel the same way but I wish we could just get passed all of this and just be happy when someone is doing what makes them happy.

[JimC]

I'm all for doing what makes you happy, but if you honestly believe that you can change your gender through any means you are denying reality.
Transgendered, gender-fluid, etc.; are just indicators of someone who is pretending to be something\someone that they are not, and hoping or insisting that everyone else pretend along with them. If a guy changes his name to Lisa and puts on a dress, that's OK by me, but he hasn't become a woman by so doing; and will not through any other means. I get that there may be actual incongruities between the psychological and the physical states in terms of traditional gender roles; but one who identifies as the other gender is identifying with what they assume or believe to be the the psychology of the other gender, as none of us can do anything more than imagine what someone other than ourselves feels or even should feel. Sure, an argument can be made as to what is "more real" and thus the "true" identity - the psychological or the physical manifestation - I argue that the physical is the "true" person as that can be seen and measured with certainty. A person can really, truly believe and fully identify with being Superman; but their inability to fly or have bullets bounce off of their chests illustrate their faulty feelings. So IMO for legal purposes and classifications, the physical being rules and people who insist that they are or have become a different gender or can fluctuate between gender states is entitled to their feelings; but they probably need some help dealing with their inability to accept physical reality. They unfortunately have some emotional issues.

[SomeChick]

I'm a huge fan of The Umbrella Academy and loved Juno. The Umbrella Academy will be back eventually, and I hope Ellen/Elliot continues in the same role. It's the most pivotal character in the series.

[theotherlondon]

I first enjoyed seeing this person on the Canadian sitcom
Trailer park boys back in 2001.

[SomeChick]

Love TPB in all its incarnations! Can't wait for the next season to come out.

[pkstracy]

I first saw him on Juno.

[RiaBrown]

I'm all for doing what makes you happy, but if you honestly believe that you can change your gender through any means you are denying reality.
Transgendered, gender-fluid, etc.; are just indicators of someone who is pretending to be something\someone that they are not, and hoping or insisting that everyone else pretend along with them. If a guy changes his name to Lisa and puts on a dress, that's OK by me, but he hasn't become a woman by so doing; and will not through any other means. I get that there may be actual incongruities between the psychological and the physical states in terms of traditional gender roles; but one who identifies as the other gender is identifying with what they assume or believe to be the the psychology of the other gender, as none of us can do anything more than imagine what someone other than ourselves feels or even should feel. Sure, an argument can be made as to what is "more real" and thus the "true" identity - the psychological or the physical manifestation - I argue that the physical is the "true" person as that can be seen and measured with certainty. A person can really, truly believe and fully identify with being Superman; but their inability to fly or have bullets bounce off of their chests illustrate their faulty feelings. So IMO for legal purposes and classifications, the physical being rules and people who insist that they are or have become a different gender or can fluctuate between gender states is entitled to their feelings; but they probably need some help dealing with their inability to accept physical reality. They unfortunately have some emotional issues.

*Transgender, not "transgendered." And it is no more a choice than being gay is. Trans folks are not "pretending to be someone else." They are trying to be their true selves. My brother from another mother is a transman, and before i moved here I dated a transwoman. You don't understand what dysphoria is. It's an overwhelming feeling that your body isn't "right." That you identify as male but your body is female or vice versa.

That said, gender is a spectrum. There is NOT "just two sexes." It's how you get genderfluid, non-binary, and trans folks. Gender is how you identify in your head. Sex is body parts, what you have between your legs and your chromosomes.

I identify as female, my body is female, everything matches up and I'm not trans. I'm a cisgender lesbian. I do have body image issues but it's not dysphoria. Mine stems from childhood trauma. If you identify as male and your body is male, you're lucky just like I am. I will defend my trans friends and family with my last breath.

As for Elliot Page, I still love him and am thrilled he's able to be himself and be happy in his skin. I truly believe that the Academy should do away with gendered awards and open up the categories to folks of all genders. Grammatically speaking, the word "actor" isn't gendered and has been used for men and women. So why not for trans folks? Or non binary or genderfluid?

[pkstracy]

Well said Ria, I have some friends who are trans and will defend them as well.

[RiaBrown]

Well said Ria, I have some friends who are trans and will defend them as well.

Thank you. This is another topic I can go full on Julia Sugarbaker on. If you've watched Designing Women, you know what I mean. ROFL!

[Mansfield67]

I hope he can continue his career and get good roles. I really hope he does, he is one of the most talented actors that town has.

[JimC]

*Transgender, not "transgendered." And it is no more a choice than being gay is. Trans folks are not "pretending to be someone else." They are trying to be their true selves. My brother from another mother is a transman, and before i moved here I dated a transwoman. You don't understand what dysphoria is. It's an overwhelming feeling that your body isn't "right." That you identify as male but your body is female or vice versa.

That said, gender is a spectrum. There is NOT "just two sexes." It's how you get genderfluid, non-binary, and trans folks. Gender is how you identify in your head. Sex is body parts, what you have between your legs and your chromosomes.

I identify as female, my body is female, everything matches up and I'm not trans. I'm a cisgender lesbian. I do have body image issues but it's not dysphoria. Mine stems from childhood trauma. If you identify as male and your body is male, you're lucky just like I am. I will defend my trans friends and family with my last breath.

As for Elliot Page, I still love him and am thrilled he's able to be himself and be happy in his skin. I truly believe that the Academy should do away with gendered awards and open up the categories to folks of all genders. Grammatically speaking, the word "actor" isn't gendered and has been used for men and women. So why not for trans folks? Or non binary or genderfluid?

Thanks for that explanation.
I'm not attacking or trying to be callous or dismissive of anyone, but I recognize it might appear that way.
I understand that for some people the psyche and the body do not align; and I believe that for a lot of those people - for want of a better description or explanation - that something "goes amiss" early on in the womb before sex\gender is physically set. That "something" causes the mind to develop in one direction while the body goes in the other. There are multiple real causes I'm sure, that we don't yet understand but someday will.

When I talk about "gender", I am referring to the physical state of being male or female; as I think the physical reality is the criteria by which "gender" is determined in society.
Except in rare instances, there is no ambiguity, physically.

And we can certainly say that the psychology is as real (or more so to that person) as the physical, but it is the physical by which society must categorize and into which people have to fit for practical matters such as public accommodations. Otherwise, we'll have males competing on female sports teams and I'm sure almost every male felon being sentenced to prison will be female at heart.

Our "gender" as I use the term - maybe I should say "sex" - is determined at birth largely by our biological attributes; and nothing can alter the way we were born.
If we say it's all about the psychological state and that's what makes it "real", then how do we fully fault a guy on a bus for decapitating a fellow passenger when he fully believes that God ordered him to do it?

No, I'm not equating discord between physical and emotional alignment to a crime, I'm saying if it's the feelings that determine what is right; how can we fault someone who does questionable or unacceptable things based upon the firm belief that God tells them to do those things? And before anyone says that murder even at the order of God is against the law, in most communities it is illegal for a male to enter a female rest room or gym locker room even if they consider themselves to be the appropriate gender.

I am sympathetic to people who are living with these feelings, but I do think that the physical reality is the working reality.

As for Elliot Page, I don't think I had ever heard the name before seeing this thread.

[Mansfield67]

I sincerely feel for those who struggle with gender identity and coming to terms with just being a gay man or woman. I myself had no problem. I did everything all the other kids did , crazy things on bikes, jumping from trees and general havoc as one does. Just goofing around and having a great time. I suppose there was something going on in my head that I couldn't put words to, but I remember there was just something different about how I felt about certain things. I went out with girls because that was the conditioning and I had fun, but it didn't quite work for me. In high school I started to meet people who were like minded and it was like "Oh,now I get it !" Maybe it was the times I had no problem making that move to saying I was gay. Back then it was a very mixed crowd and no one cared what your deal was, and 50+ yrs. later it is still that way. I think I was lucky maybe, never shunned by family or friends. They figured it out even before I told them ! Lol.

[JimC]

We don't choose who we find attractive or in what ways we find them attractive - that just happens without any decision making on our part.
We may choose who we get involved with based upon various deliberate factors, but we don't choose to have the desire to get involved with them.

As a straight guy I can only surmise, but it seems to me that realizing and accepting that you are gay, or coming out as gay; isn't like there was some big change in your self or in your own nature, but a recognition of something that was already there but not consciously understood or acknowledged. I'm sure the reactions of family and friends can be all over the place, but that is all about them - you're still the same person you were before, just their perception or expectations of you have been impacted.

I need to clarify some of my earlier comments by offering an example to illustrate more specifically what I'm saying: Bruce\Caitlyn Jenner.
Bruce was born a guy and at some point decided that he is\was\identifies as a woman.
Bruce became Caitlyn and announced that for all intents and purposes, he is now a woman.

OK - I don't have a problem with Bruce becoming Caitlyn and seeking greater happiness or satisfaction in life; but if Bruce truly believes that he has in any way become a woman, then Bruce is delusional. If people support Bruce\Caitlyn and wish him\her well, I think that's great. But to encourage him to actually believe he has transformed into a woman instead of being a man who wants to be accepted as a woman is like encouraging Trump to refuse to leave the White House because he doesn't accept the election results. Or it's like telling that guy with the big knife on the bus that God really does sometimes tell people to do wild things, and that nobody in their right mind could ever ignore orders from God.

I do feel for people who are dealing with things like this; and I can't begin to imagine how difficult, depressing, frustrating and maybe even terrifying it has to be.
And I think being supportive of them is a fine thing too, unless we're talking about encouraging unrealistic or even delusional beliefs such as I mention with Bruce.

[SomeChick]

understand that for some people the psyche and the body do not align; and I believe that for a lot of those people - for want of a better description or explanation - that something "goes amiss" early on in the womb before sex\gender is physically set. That "something" causes the mind to develop in one direction while the body goes in the other.

I wouldn't say anything's amiss. Not remotely. I will say this is why there's a common bond in the LGBTQA Community that's expressed through the saying "We were born this way." Discounting that is the same as dismissing their feelings, civil rights under the law and their identities.

That said, many of our members, and Scott himself, do not feel that way. Therefore, the above post example does not belong anywhere on the forum. Not on the boards, in private messages, groups, or profile messages as Scott is not paying to have his fans discounted as confused or amiss. Continue discussing Ellen/Elliot, but no more of the above.

[JimC]

I wouldn't say anything's amiss. Not remotely. I will say this is why there's a common bond in the LGBTQA Community that's expressed through the saying "We were born this way." Discounting that is the same as dismissing their feelings, civil rights under the law and their identities.

That said, many of our members, and Scott himself, do not feel that way. Therefore, the above post example does not belong anywhere on the forum. Not on the boards, in private messages, groups, or profile messages as Scott is not paying to have his fans discounted as confused or amiss. Continue discussing Ellen/Elliot, but no more of the above.

I did say people were born that way, I affirmed that; and don't really see how my statement can be fairly interpreted any other way.
Fairly, I say.

And yeah, if I firmly believe that I am in essence a woman; but I was born in the body of a male; something is amiss IMO because the emotional or psychological reality does not align with the physical reality.

Do as you deem fair or appropriate in response to that, thanks.

[Mansfield67]

I agree, nothing is or was amiss. Once I put it all together it made sense to me. This is who I am and it felt right, always has and will.

[JimC]

I agree, nothing is or was amiss. Once I put it all together it made sense to me. This is who I am and it felt right, always has and will.

I'm not talking about sexuality or about being gay.
I'm talking about people who realize that their psychological\emotional gender doesn't match their physical gender.
How can we say that nothing is amiss if it is the person in question who feels that something is wrong or misaligned?

[Mansfield67]

I'm not talking about sexuality or about being gay.
I'm talking about people who realize that their psychological\emotional gender doesn't match their physical gender.
How can we say that nothing is amiss if it is the person in question who feels that something is wrong or misaligned?

I understand what you are saying. I have known a couple of transgendered woman, but from what they have told me they knew from an early age that the body did not go with the mind. I don't recall them having any deep rooted issues regarding that. They both seemed to know who they needed to be. It was a perfectly natural process for them to get to where they are now, they personally never felt that something was wrong or amiss. But that was them.

[RiaBrown]

Trans folks know from an early age that something's "not right." That the sex they were assigned at birth does not align with how they identify. This is why you'll see transfolks saying they're AMAB or AFAB, which means "assigned male (or female) at birth." My brother and roommate, A, confided in me that he was trans years ago. And he was the first trans person I knew on a personal level.

I met my ex-girlfriend, a transwoman, about a year ago. The ONLY reason she's an ex is I ended up moving 2 hours away and we both agreed that it was just too far for her to come see me since I don't drive due to vision issues. If I drove, it would have been a different story and we'd probably still be together. But my ability to drive is neither here nor there.

I'm just trying to educate you on transfolks, that's all. I will defend them, and the rest of the LGBTQIA community, with my dying breath.

[JimC]

I understand what you are saying. I have known a couple of transgendered woman, but from what they have told me they knew from an early age that the body did not go with the mind. I don't recall them having any deep rooted issues regarding that. They both seemed to know who they needed to be. It was a perfectly natural process for them to get to where they are now, they personally never felt that something was wrong or amiss. But that was them.

Trans folks know from an early age that something's "not right." That the sex they were assigned at birth does not align with how they identify. This is why you'll see transfolks saying they're AMAB or AFAB, which means "assigned male (or female) at birth." My brother and roommate, A, confided in me that he was trans years ago. And he was the first trans person I knew on a personal level.

I met my ex-girlfriend, a transwoman, about a year ago. The ONLY reason she's an ex is I ended up moving 2 hours away and we both agreed that it was just too far for her to come see me since I don't drive due to vision issues. If I drove, it would have been a different story and we'd probably still be together. But my ability to drive is neither here nor there.

I'm just trying to educate you on transfolks, that's all. I will defend them, and the rest of the LGBTQIA community, with my dying breath.

Thanks to you both, I appreciate the thoughtfully presented and enlightening information.

[Domino]

Gender is a social construct. Sex is biology/chromosomes. Trans people aren't pretending. I've known a lot of trans people and it's a misalignment between the sex you were born as and the gender you feel you should be. It's battle between your brain and your body and it's hell. I can't imagine going through this. JimC, I thank you for being willing to be educated.

[RiaBrown]

Gender is a social construct. Sex is biology/chromosomes. Trans people aren't pretending. I've known a lot of trans people and it's a misalignment between the sex you were born as and the gender you feel you should be. It's battle between your brain and your body and it's hell. I can't imagine going through this. JimC, I thank you for being willing to be educated.

Exactly. Dysphoria is a BITCH. My ex-gf and I are still good friends and still talk. It's hell knowing you were born in one body but identify as the opposite. I've been her biggest supporter for the last year and I do not intend to stop anytime soon, even though we only dated for 6 weeks out of that year. And that was only because I ended up moving 2 hours away from her and we both agreed that was just too far.

[pkstracy]

Folks let's keep on topic about Ellen/Elliot Page. Also do not quote posts that break the rules.

[RiaBrown]

I think I fell in love with Elliot when he was in Juno. He literally broke my heart though in An American Crime, playing Sylvia. I still need to start Umbrella Academy. Girl I've been talking to tells me it's amazing and since I love Elliot I should definitely watch it.