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Thread: Minneapolis Police Kill Unarmed and Handcuffed Man

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    The ME said "possible".
    Thanks.
    I should think he wouldn't just be throwing stuff out there in a case like this.
    I guess the reports will clear all that up, but the critical finding is in.
    The lawyer for the family is talking about upgrading the charges - he "thinks" there was intent.
    Unless there's a way to clearly demonstrate that, they could be taking a chance with that.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    He had a heart attack while being restrained, I think is the gist of that; I believe they've been asked to clarify.
    Odd that the Medical Examiner and the independent examiner were so far apart concerning other health issues - listed as significant by one and none by the other.
    And the independent didn't make mention of fentanyl intoxication and recent amphetamine use as the ME did, might be waiting for new lab work, IDK.
    manner of death: homicide. case closed.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    manner of death: homicide. case closed.
    Yep.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  4. #54
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    I am all for the protests on this, we had one in my hometown today. A small group who were respectful and practiced social distancing with one another, the majority wearing masks. I have a feeling that the next big news in the States will be a rise in Covid-19 cases brought on by all the gatherings.
    To really know people is to be able to read between the lines on their faces.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mansfield67 View Post
    I am all for the protests on this, we had one in my hometown today. A small group who were respectful and practiced social distancing with one another, the majority wearing masks. I have a feeling that the next big news in the States will be a rise in Covid-19 cases brought on by all the gatherings.
    Yep.

  6. #56
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    All of Canada's protests have been peaceful and showing respect for Mr. Floyd. As it should be. Montreal got out of hand, but their French. No class.
    To really know people is to be able to read between the lines on their faces.

  7. #57
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    Who cares about the autopsy reports? The point is that if you put your knee on somebody's neck for 8 minutes it CAN lead to asphyxiation. I don't give a fuck if they say he died of psoriasis; the point is NO cop needs to be engaging in that kind of behavior. Period. Racist-ass motherfuckers.

    Honestly what we probably need at this point is a real revolution. But there's zero percent chance of that happening, because people are stupid and comfortable in their situations. As long as they have the latest iPhone or Android device, they will support the status quo.
    Sincerely yours,
    Upset

  8. #58
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    The Revolution is slow but there are small steps.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/86728...-shot-to-death

    Here we have a police chief getting fired because his officers didn't have their body camera's on. Not long ago it would have been simply dismissed away. They tried to in the Breonna Taylor case. I have to think that has now become harder to do.

    While I hate that things are getting destroyed, I also think it's a small price to pay for change.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    Who cares about the autopsy reports? The point is that if you put your knee on somebody's neck for 8 minutes it CAN lead to asphyxiation. I don't give a fuck if they say he died of psoriasis; the point is NO cop needs to be engaging in that kind of behavior. Period. Racist-ass motherfuckers.
    True.
    It was inhumane and inhuman.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  10. #60
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    Also folks let's keep the board tidy and not posting back to back you all have been here long enough to know not to post less than 30 mins apart, as was stated we don't like giving cards or bans or time outs, and please keep it civil.
    Last edited by pkstracy; 06-03-2020 at 11:41 AM.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  11. #61
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    Interesting if true:

    Baden said there would not be physical evidence of the compression on Floyd’s neck and back.
    Baden said the video of the scene provided evidence of the compression.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  12. #62
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  13. #63
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    Interesting.
    COVID-19 positive, fentanyl, meth and cannabinoids.

    No wonder the guy complained repeatedly that he couldn't breathe before he was on the ground and before he was restrained.
    One of the most common causes of death with fentanyl intoxication is respiratory paralysis - you can't breathe; thus you asphyxiate; as noted in the footnotes of this report.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  14. #64
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    My latest attempt at a meme. Thought you all might enjoy it. Incidentally, the first part of the quote is "Fascism is cured by reading."

    unamunomeme.png
    Sincerely yours,
    Upset

  15. #65
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    An interesting individual, Miguel.
    I'm afraid that the "cured by reading" premise depends upon critical reflection as well.
    I work with some guys who read a Fox News story in the evening and they're repeating it as fact by morning.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Interesting if true:

    Baden said there would not be physical evidence of the compression on Floyd’s neck and back.
    Baden said the video of the scene provided evidence of the compression.
    Curious where you read that? Specifically the first statement. How could there not be physical evidence of the compression on Floyd’s neck and back? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding because I'm taking it out of context?
    "Honestly may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonestly is the second-best policy."
    - George Carlin

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandorasbox View Post
    Curious where you read that? Specifically the first statement. How could there not be physical evidence of the compression on Floyd’s neck and back? Unless I'm completely misunderstanding because I'm taking it out of context?
    I saw it as a quote from Baden that I didn't vet at the time.
    I was looking for it so that I could answer your question, and I found a video of Baden actually saying it in an news conference:

    "The compressive pressure of the neck and back are not seen at autopsy because the pressure has been released by the time the body comes to the Medical Examiner's Office."
    "It can only be seen - serious compressive pressure on the neck and back - can only be seen while the pressure is being applied, or when as in this instance; it is captured on video."

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/independen...ry?id=70994827

    That's the first time I've actually seen this - I'm seriously shocked.
    Obviously, I'm not a lawyer or a forensics guy, but to say he died of asphyxiation with no evidence other than a video; seems pretty reckless in my uneducated opinion.
    I mean, to prove murder, there can be no reasonable doubt.

    Here we have somewhat conflicting reports from two experts, one expert said initially that there was zero evidence for asphyxiation, then said there was but that the man died of a heart attack while being restrained, and mentioned other possible contributing factors.

    Toxicology reports show fentanyl, meth and weed in his system, and it is well known that respiratory paralysis is a primary cause of death in fentanyl overdose - meaning that the victims asphyxiate. How do you demonstrate mechanical asphyxiation as a cause instead of drug-induced asphyxiation beyond a reasonable doubt in the absence of physical evidence for one and documented evidence for the other?

    You can easily (and they likely will) demonstrate in the courtroom that just restraining someone in the fashion used on Floyd is not inherently fatal.
    Add to that that he complained of not being able to breathe while he was still on his feet and not restrained in the manner that supposedly caused his death, and you seem to have evidence of respiratory distress unrelated to neck compression.

    Additionally, in watching the vid that shows the three cops on him, while he is still in the car, you can see that a cop is struggling with him. At one point, the cop even runs around to the other side of the car as if Floyd might be trying to get out - I am surmising that from the cop's action. That suggests resistance; and could explain why - at least initially - they felt they needed to pin the guy. I swear I saw a clip where he exited the vehicle on his own, dropped to the ground and was then pinned, but I don't see it right now, everything I'm finding skips over that part.

    What happened to the man was awful and IMO excessive and unnecessary, but in my uneducated opinion, a marginally competent defense attorney is going to get that cop acquitted.

    The media and the authorities have made it seem like this case is a done deal and created an expectation that the cops will be found guilty and locked away.
    They were calling it murder before we had any idea what happened and fanning the flames of outrage, which needed no fanning beyond what we could already see.
    When the trial goes the other way, it's going to be bad due to the expectations created mainly by the press but also by the authorities.
    Unless there is something that practically assures a conviction here, they should probably start preparing people for the possibility of another outcome.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    Who cares about the autopsy reports? The point is that if you put your knee on somebody's neck for 8 minutes it CAN lead to asphyxiation. I don't give a fuck if they say he died of psoriasis; the point is NO cop needs to be engaging in that kind of behavior. Period. Racist-ass motherfuckers.

    Honestly what we probably need at this point is a real revolution. But there's zero percent chance of that happening, because people are stupid and comfortable in their situations. As long as they have the latest iPhone or Android device, they will support the status quo.
    Thank you for saying this.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  19. #69
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    He would have had a hearattack if he didn't die that way, left side of heart was 75 blocked and the right side was 95 percent blocked, so a combo of the neck, heart, respiratory issues and that one drug in his system was enough to kill him.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    He would have had a hearattack if he didn't die that way, left side of heart was 75 blocked and the right side was 95 percent blocked, so a combo of the neck, heart, respiratory issues and that one drug in his system was enough to kill him.
    Have a link? I've not seen this.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    Have a link? I've not seen this.
    https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...3700_Floyd.pdf

    It's on page 10 under "Cardiovascular System".
    I don't know what to think of it all.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  22. #72
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    I do. The ME ruled Floyd's death a homicide. So what if he would have had a heart attack anyway? Those cops held him down, which impacted his health condition and he died.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/henn...3700_Floyd.pdf

    It's on page 10 under "Cardiovascular System".
    I don't know what to think of it all.
    Thank you for the link. What I make of it is that if someone is having a heart attack and struggling to live, three men shouldn't pile on top of him and hold him down until he dies.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    Thank you for the link. What I make of it is that if someone is having a heart attack and struggling to live, three men shouldn't pile on top of him and hold him down until he dies.
    Exactly.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    Thank you for the link. What I make of it is that if someone is having a heart attack and struggling to live, three men shouldn't pile on top of him and hold him down until he dies.
    That's a pretty concise assessment, thanks.
    That's what qualifies it as murder.
    Last edited by JimC; 06-08-2020 at 05:30 AM.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    Have a link? I've not seen this.
    Sorry didn't get back here in time to reply, thank you Jim for doing that.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    I do. The ME ruled Floyd's death a homicide. So what if he would have had a heart attack anyway? Those cops held him down, which impacted his health condition and he died.
    So very true.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  28. #78
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    It will be an interesting trial.
    Proving that a murder occurred in the absence of physical evidence for the stated cause, then proving that a guy did that, I suppose mainly based upon a video that shows his knee on the neck, but which doesn't allow us to tell how much pressure was applied.

    I'm still wondering about body cams - surely there's unreleased video that supports the charge.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  29. #79
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    Not all cops are good, and not all cops are bad; however, these cops are extremely uncool:

    .

    Life is like a box of chocolates: unless it was sent to you by Divine.

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    Eww. I swear I could hear his head hit the pavement.

    Just sad. Well looks like one cop did want to help.....no. Move along.

  31. #81
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    I know. It's a pretty awful way to treat anyone let alone an elderly man simply asking a question. There are a few more examples in the footage, but that one got my attention immediately.
    .

    Life is like a box of chocolates: unless it was sent to you by Divine.

  32. #82
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    "No offense, but Fuck You..."

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/war-zone-leaked-audio-reveals-090000284.html


    “I’ve got over 10 videos of people shooting other people.”

    One alderman grew upset at the boldness that Chicago residents showed, noting they displayed a total lack of fear in committing crimes. “I’ve got over 10 videos of people shooting other people,” she said. “It’s insane. Like broad daylight, they’re just shooting.”

    “There aren’t enough cops.”

    “Right now and I’m sure I echo what everybody else has said, there aren’t enough cops. We’re getting overwhelmed in this thing,” Burke said on the call. The mayor agreed. “It’s hard to fathom that we have 13,404 [officers], the highest headcount that we’ve had in probably a decade, and given the volume of looting, it feels like we’re a tiny police force,” Lightfoot said.
    “Private citizens, they’re going to become vigilantes, they’re going to protect themselves, because the police aren’t reachable, there’s not enough men or women to respond when the call is made but the call doesn’t get answered,” Burke added.

    911 “not even answering the phones anymore.”
    “I called 911 … they’re not even answering the phones anymore,” one alderman said. “I called 911 today too and wasn’t able to get through,” another added. Burke also said he was unable to reach emergency services throughout the day.

    Looters “commandeering buses.”
    Lightfoot told the aldermen that looters and rioters were “commandeering buses” to engage in crimes. “On the advice of [Chicago Transit Authority President] Dorval Carter of the CTA, we’ve stopped CTA services as of 10 minutes ago, until sometime in the morning,” the mayor said.
    “We’ll give a final notification at 5 a.m. to let people know, but what we were seeing is people were commandeering buses, they were using the trains that were operational to travel from neighborhood to neighborhood, and the CTA became a tool for the looters and the anarchists,” she added.


    “People are just fucking lawless right now.”

    Responding to an alderman who expressed dismay at widespread looting in her ward, Lightfoot became exasperated with the widespread violence. “This is a massive, massive problem,” the mayor said. “People are just fucking lawless right now.”

    “No offense but fuck you.”
    Lightfoot took issue with Ald. Raymond Lopez after he criticized the mayor’s response and described his ward as a “virtual warzone.” The mayor initially ignored Lopez’s remarks until he demanded an answer. “I think you’re 100% full of shit, is what I think,” Lightfoot said. “No offense — fuck you, then. Who are you to tell me I’m full of shit? Maybe you should come out here and see what’s going on,” Lopez fired back.

    “I don’t have a pharmacy left.”
    Ald. David Moore expressed dismay at the destruction that looters wrought in his district. He noted that other aldermen were talking “about securing the pharmacies. I’m glad you got some left,” he said. “I drove my whole ward all day, I don’t have a pharmacy left.”

    Hundreds” of sites looted in a day.
    Lightfoot told the aldermen on the call that “hundreds” of sites across Chicago were looted in a single day. “The number of sites that have been up and run over by looters today is in the hundreds. Hundreds,” she said. “It doesn’t make it feel any better. I’ve been on calls and text messages with people all day today who fought hard to bring economic development to areas of the city only to see the Walgreens, the CVS, the grocery store, everything vanished in an eyeblink … It’s going to take a herculean effort to convince businesses not to disappear.”

    “My ward is a shit show.”
    “I just want to say, and I just want to tell you guys, my ward is a shit show. It’s cop cars burning, banks burning, we had to put the bridges up,” Ald. Susan Sadlowski Garza said on the call. “I want to tell you, this kicked off this morning at 11 o’clock, it wasn’t a protest, it wasn’t anything like that. It was about 40 people that showed up in the dispensary lot, a dispensary most of you guys know it’s like getting in Fort Knox in there,” she added.
    “There was people trapped inside, they were trying to break down the front door, and they were calling the police and the police couldn’t get there fast enough. The employees had to escape out the back door and they got in. They got in through four doors, bulletproof glass, they cleaned the place out … I’ve never seen anything like it. I’m scared. This is broad daylight … ” she continued, trailing off as she began crying.

    “I’ve been crying all day.”
    Sadlowski Garza wasn’t the only alderman brought to tears by the widespread violence and looting. “I’ve been crying all day because this is something that we have not seen,” Ald. Derrick Curtis told his fellow city leaders. Lightfoot, too, said that she had repeatedly cried throughout the day on Sunday.

    “People aren’t going to be able to get food.”
    One alderman said she feared that the destruction of grocery stores and pharmacies would leave the city’s most vulnerable residents without food or medicine and asked about bringing the National Guard into the city to defend those businesses. “Is it possible to deploy the National Guard to secure our grocery stores, our pharmacies, at the very least?” she asked. “Because our elderly, our vulnerable populations, people aren’t going to be able to get food, get supplies, get their drugs.”


    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  33. #83
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    That proves the point that if law enforcement had followed through properly during the Floyd murder, none of this would be happening. Instead, what we'd see on YouTube, and what would have been reported in the news beyond a local law enforcement column, would be nothing.

    I don't condone violence as retribution either. You folks know that. Therefore, the above can't be used to establish a double standard. What it does do is show the domino effect that violence and disregard for others creates.
    Last edited by SomeChick; 06-12-2020 at 12:08 AM.
    .

    Life is like a box of chocolates: unless it was sent to you by Divine.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeChick View Post
    That proves the point that if law enforcement had followed through properly during the Floyd murder, none of this would be happening. Instead, what we'd see on YouTube, and what would have been reported in the news beyond a local law enforcement column, would be nothing.

    I don't condone violence as retribution either. You folks know that. Therefore, the above can't be used to establish a double standard. What it does do is show the domino effect that violence and disregard for others creates.
    I don't condone violence either but I understand that when people refuse to address issues, violence is usually the result.

    I'm not sure how anyone could believe an answer to someone having a problem is to call them names and demand they be fired.

  35. #85
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    Yeah, it's a real clusterfuck that could've easily been avoided.
    .

    Life is like a box of chocolates: unless it was sent to you by Divine.

  36. #86
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    I think the only point it proves is that lawless thugs will use any opportunity to take to the streets and do what they should be expected to do.
    Looting a Walgreens anywhere has nothing to do with anger about Floyd anymore than stealing a TV from a Target anywhere does.

    I don't know how easily it might have been avoided, I do think it could have been effectively suppressed.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  37. #87
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    The issues far preceded the violence.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    The issues far preceded the violence.
    I'd say the issues had little to do with the violence.
    The demonstrations were in response to the issues, the looting, rioting and violence arose from the opportunity to take to the streets en masse under cover of lawful demonstrations.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    I'd say the issues had little to do with the violence.
    The demonstrations were in response to the issues, the looting, rioting and violence arose from the opportunity to take to the streets en masse under cover of lawful demonstrations.
    For some. Unfortunately that is the only thing that gets people's attention and that is as sad.

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    Who cares about the autopsy reports? The point is that if you put your knee on somebody's neck for 8 minutes it CAN lead to asphyxiation. I don't give a fuck if they say he died of psoriasis; the point is NO cop needs to be engaging in that kind of behavior. Period. Racist-ass motherfuckers.

    Honestly what we probably need at this point is a real revolution. But there's zero percent chance of that happening, because people are stupid and comfortable in their situations. As long as they have the latest iPhone or Android device, they will support the status quo.
    👏👏👏👏

  41. #91
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    one of the charged cops was verbally accosted while shopping

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/ex-cop...cery-shopping/

  42. #92
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    I think he showed a lot of restraint (not involving knees or necks).
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    I think he showed a lot of restraint (not involving knees or necks).
    I saw arrogance. Take a shave and put on a pair of sunglasses you moron.

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    He lived to tell people what happened, so it's another wonderful day in the neighborhood for him.
    .

    Life is like a box of chocolates: unless it was sent to you by Divine.

  45. #95
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    George Floyd's death: Family sues Minneapolis in civil suit

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53425792

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    It's interesting that the officer had the video released in an attempt to exonerate himself. IMO it does nothing of the sort. It shows him quickly pulling his gun on FLoyd even though Floyd showed no sign of being violent or not compliant. Minneapolis has had a very bad reputation with treatment towards minorities and I can understand being upset when the officer pulls a gun on you without even determining you had done anything wrong.

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