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Thread: Minneapolis Police Kill Unarmed and Handcuffed Man

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    Minneapolis Police Kill Unarmed and Handcuffed Man


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    OMG......

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    WTF? Just sickening.
    To really know people is to be able to read between the lines on their faces.

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    IMO that was murder. If a guy who filmed a murder can be charged with murder, someone who did what we saw here should be charged with murder.

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    I saw the video on the news last night as a retired police captain, from the same department, explained that placing a knee on a suspect's neck for longer than five seconds is considered excessive use of force. He also said that at five seconds, the suspect should be rolled onto his or her side while being held down by the handcuffs and feet only. This is to allow the suspect to breath and give sufficient time for oxygen to flow unobstructed throughout the lungs, brain, and the rest of the body. In other words, that dude, their former boss, told the world the officers are guilty on live TV. I would too in his position. A bunch of fuck ups like them should never be in positions of authority. They should instead be in the position of worrying about picking up the soap for the rest of their lives.
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    This is horrible but why do people when protesting, some of them have to loot, how is that helping anything, it just makes you look like a criminal.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    This is horrible but why do people when protesting, some of them have to loot, how is that helping anything, it just makes you look like a criminal.
    While maybe not looting, I fully support violence from the people. When some tried to peaceably protest by kneeling you had people like Trump (and millions of others) calling for those kneeling to be fired and they needed to stop.

    So what people have left is violence. The founders knew this to be the case.

    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

    Thomas Jefferson.

    How did we learn nothing from Eric Garner? One also has to note, Garner did nothing but refuse an illegal search and George Floyd was accused of *maybe* using a fake $20. Angelo Mozilo screwed the country out of billions and his punishment was to retire with millions.

    I think the recent case in Georgia had people ready to protest. If not for the video nothing would have happened. It's far past time to understand and demand changes to our two tiered justice system. It's not just about race it's also about how much money you have but minorities are still hurt there.

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    I can certainly understand the protesting, but the violence and looting are largely just crimes of opportunity by people inclined to lawlessness to begin with, IMO.
    I suspect that these events will be the way a lot of people remember the victim, as much as him being remembered for the circumstances under which he was killed.
    It's safe to say that justice won't be found next to the 50" TV's stolen from Target.

    I support violence too - against the looters.
    They should be shot dead where they stand.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    a riot.

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    In thinking about this more, many of us are attributing this death to the cops, but that may not be true at all, we don't know yet.
    If the guy died from asphyxiation, or a broken neck, or if compression to the nerves in his neck rendered him unable to breathe, then the cop killed him.
    If the guy had a heart attack or a stroke or a ruptured aneurysm, it wasn't the fault of the cops.
    And it's not like the cops just singled out some black guy to harass - they were called to the scene of a crime in progress.
    Floyd was known to the people in that store and according to at least one report, he was behaving strangely, or "out of control".
    If that's true, it suggests to me that he either already had some medical event going on, or that he may have been on drugs.
    Maybe the interaction with the cops added a level of stress that his already stressed system could not absorb.
    So I don't know what happened - none of us do yet - but I'm no longer going to just assume that the cops were at fault in some or in any way, it might have just been his time to go, or it might be due to something he did to himself.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    video of the murder from another angle

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/george...-in-new-video/

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    Well, if “I can’t breathe” isn’t an indication of impending asphyxiation, I don’t know what is. Not to mention the fact that the cop held Mr. Floyd down way longer than the few seconds past handcuffing that he was trained to exercise. This cop held Mr. Floyd down for many minutes. Not to mention the fact that when someone dies because you laid into them, you are responsible. Not to mention that cop has a long, bad rep, and a Native American’s death on his hands.
    Last edited by cindyt; 05-29-2020 at 09:55 AM.

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    The cop Derek Chauvin has been arrested as per CNN

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    The cop Derek Chauvin has been arrested as per CNN
    And People. https://people.com/crime/george-floy...xqkJa4ApgdPYB8

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    All of the cops involved in this crime should be charged with Murder.

    He could not breathe. He was begging.

    And to the main killer cop....I hope he likes prison life. And he sounds like a real winner. Why was he still on the force???

    The looting is totally unacceptable. But shoot them dead.....no. Don't make it worse than it is by killing more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Well, if “I can’t breathe” isn’t an indication of impending asphyxiation, I don’t know what is. Not to mention the fact that the cop held Mr. Floyd down way longer than the few seconds past handcuffing that he was trained to exercise. This cop held Mr. Floyd down for many minutes. Not to mention the fact that when someone dies because you laid into them, you are responsible. Not to mention that cop has a long, bad rep, and a Native American’s death on his hands.
    If you have your knee on someone's neck and he is saying he can't breath and others are telling you that there is something wrong and you just remain there with your knee on the person neck, it's your fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    video of the murder from another angle

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/george...-in-new-video/
    That's pretty disturbing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Not to mention the fact that when someone dies because you laid into them, you are responsible. Not to mention that cop has a long, bad rep, and a Native American’s death on his hands.
    That's my point - we don't know that he died because somebody laid into him, we don't know yet what caused his death.
    Just me, I'm not going to say the cops, or that cop, murdered the guy without knowing the cause of death.
    Maybe when it's known it will obviously be the fault of the cops, maybe not; we do not know yet.

    But as for the looters - heck yeah, start shooting them dead as soon as they start that crap and it will be a short riot; and likely the last one for a long time to come.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    That's pretty disturbing.



    That's my point - we don't know that he died because somebody laid into him, we don't know yet what caused his death.
    Just me, I'm not going to say the cops, or that cop, murdered the guy without knowing the cause of death.
    Maybe when it's known it will obviously be the fault of the cops, maybe not; we do not know yet.

    But as for the looters - heck yeah, start shooting them dead as soon as they start that crap and it will be a short riot; and likely the last one for a long time to come.
    Would it be as fair for people to shoot the police when they do wrong? Such as this case, would it be OK for someone to have just shot the officer as opposed to begging him to get off his neck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    Would it be as fair for people to shoot the police when they do wrong? Such as this case, would it be OK for someone to have just shot the officer as opposed to begging him to get off his neck?
    Interesting question, but of course not.
    We're still assuming that the pressure applied to his neck had something to do with his distress and death.
    Maybe it did, maybe it didn't; I can't tell from the vid if the pressure was heavy or light - I don't see how anyone can.
    And I can't find equivalence between several cops mishandling a possible crime situation with grave results and large groups of people taking to the streets to riot and loot.
    Anarchy has to be stopped where and when it starts or you'll have no order in short order, and then nobody is safe, just IMO.

    I'm not defending those cops - but I realize that we don't know what happened yet; so I can't convict them of murder yet either.
    We all saw the vids, we all perceived what we perceived, but sometimes things just are not quite what we perceive them to be, and we see that we when more facts become known.

    The most damning thing to me at this point is that the guy was asking for help and the cops seemed to ignore that, they gave it no urgency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Interesting question, but of course not.
    We're still assuming that the pressure applied to his neck had something to do with his distress and death.
    Maybe it did, maybe it didn't; I can't tell from the vid if the pressure was heavy or light - I don't see how anyone can.
    And I can't find equivalence between several cops mishandling a possible crime situation with grave results and large groups of people taking to the streets to riot and loot.
    Anarchy has to be stopped where and when it starts or you'll have no order in short order, and then nobody is safe, just IMO.
    "At 8:24 p.m., Floyd stopped moving. Kueng then checked Floyd’s right wrist for a pulse and said “I couldn’t find one.” The officers continued to hold their positions.".

    Despite not being able to find a pulse the officer remained with his knee on his neck.

    "According to the medical examiner, “the combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death,” the complaint states.

    The complaint determined that Chauvin had his knee on Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of that time was after Floyd became unresponsive."

    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/..._gV0xTrxXScrcg


    I'm not defending those cops - but I realize that we don't know what happened yet; so I can't convict them of murder yet either.
    We all saw the vids, we all perceived what we perceived, but sometimes things just are not quite what we perceive them to be, and we see that we when more facts become known.

    The most damning thing to me at this point is that the guy was asking for help and the cops seemed to ignore that, they gave it no urgency.
    Not only that, they remained on top of him with the one officer with his knee in his neck. There was no need for this from the start. The guy wasn't violent. He was no threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    The cop Derek Chauvin has been arrested as per CNN
    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    ...and NPR. Yay! Like that retired police captain said, excessive use of force starts at the five second mark.

    As for riots and looting, I've always felt that they are pointless endeavors that solve nothing.
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    Minn. Stat. 609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE
    (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
    The video(s) we've seen thus far would seem to illustrate the definition of 3rd degree murder as shown above.
    Something still seems off though - it makes no sense to me that three cops would be holding the guy down in the absence of resistance.
    If he went down without them putting him down, why would they then pin him down?
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    Oh, so going beyond the 5 second mark isn't intent?

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    There was no reason to continue to kneel on him once he was handcuffed and on the ground it's okay to put a knee on the back to hold them still while handcuffing or the partner with the killer cop should have held him and then had killer cop handcuff then sit Mr. Floyd upright, there was no need to continue to hold him down with knee to neck and when he said he couldn't breathe killer cop should have moved off of him and sat him up. So if he killed a Native American why didn't people protest, why didn't Natives? Oh wait we have and look where it got us, Wounded Knee, Battle of Little Big Horn, Sand Creek, trail of tears, reservations. Missing and murdered Native Women that no one started talking about until just recently, and I have known about it for years, Racism has to stop, I have been a victim of it myself when I lived on the rez.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Oh, so going beyond the 5 second mark isn't intent?
    True, sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    The cop Derek Chauvin has been arrested as per CNN
    A good start.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Minn. Stat. 609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE
    (a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.
    The video(s) we've seen thus far would seem to illustrate the definition of 3rd degree murder as shown above.
    Something still seems off though - it makes no sense to me that three cops would be holding the guy down in the absence of resistance.
    If he went down without them putting him down, why would they then pin him down?
    One answer might lie in the idea that the head of the police union was involved in a lawsuit concerning him wearing a "White Power" patch on his motorcycle jacket and not losing his job.

    https://www.insider.com/president-mi...lawsuit-2020-5
    Last edited by john*thomas; 05-30-2020 at 04:54 PM.

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    What doesn't fit here is that every officer present showed such a high level of disregard for a human life they swore to protect.

    Quote Originally Posted by john*thomas View Post
    One answer might lie in the idea that the head of the police union was involved in a lawsuit concerning him wearing a "White Power" patch on his motorcycle jacket and not losing his job.

    https://www.insider.com/president-mi...lawsuit-2020-5
    Oh shit!
    Last edited by SomeChick; 05-30-2020 at 05:02 PM.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leasie View Post
    OMG......
    True, that what says it all happen in America today
    in this crazy world.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Oh, so going beyond the 5 second mark isn't intent?
    I don't think that would show intent, negligence or malice maybe but it doesn't indicate intent to kill.
    The prosecutors probably feel that the video evidence pretty well proves the "3rd degree" charge and avoids the need to prove something not easily proven; a more serious charge might result in a lower chance of conviction.
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    I think when all of the facts come out, they may have trouble convicting the cop of anything to do with causing the death of Floyd.
    My suspicion is that the medical evidence will show that the action by the cop - even though unnecessary and excessive under the circumstances - did nothing to contribute to the death.

    It wasn't murder.

    Floyd apparently had some serious heath issues including heart disease and very high blood pressure, the stress of the situation may well have triggered a fatal medical event.
    The resistance he put up initially likely played a factor in that.

    It's not being discussed much, but he did resist somewhat initially.
    He resisted being removed from his vehicle.
    He resisted being handcuffed, and he resisted being placed into a police vehicle.
    He was largely cooperative once he was handcuffed, but not so much prior to that; although from what I could see in the video, his resistance wasn't violent; more like physically uncooperative.

    That's not said to defend the cops, but to illuminate the facts.

    And of course, the whole reason the cops were interacting with him was that he supposedly used a bogus $20 bill to buy some smokes.
    The 911 call has the clerk reporting that the guy was either drunk or under the influence, acting "out of control", and that he refused to give back the merchandise when they realized the money was fake. I've read a transcript of the call, it reads a bit weird, like the caller maybe wasn't a native English speaker.

    But that brings us to this:

    Floyd - allegedly while under the influence of something - also allegedly passed counterfeit money.
    He was in the driver seat of the vehicle when the cops approached him, that suggests that if he was actually drugged or intoxicated, that he was driving in that condition; which of course is a crime.

    Furthermore, if he did pass the counterfeit cash, that would also be a crime - a felony under most circumstances - committed by a guy previously convicted of multiple felonies, including at least two armed, violent crimes and several drug offenses.

    We've all seen that the primary cop in this unfortunate event has had several negative marks on his behavior over the years, and that might be pertinent.
    We also see that Floyd has a violent criminal past too, which likely would have been a problem for him being arrested for another felony.

    Where I'm going here is that Floyd was no innocent, "minding my own business" black guy being victimized by a racist cop, his alleged criminal activity precipitated this event.
    The cop - IMO - used unnecessary tactics considering that the man was already down and restrained.

    My suspicion is that when the facts are established, is that while the behavior of the cop was excessive, that behavior was only cosmetically significant - it looked really bad on video - but it likely played no role in the death of the man. I project that the facts will show that his death was the result of underlying health issues perhaps aggravated by the stress of the event, an event that was precipitated solely by the criminal activity of the convicted violent felon Floyd.

    If the facts show that the knee to the neck caused or contributed to the death, then the cop murdered him, at least in the third degree.
    Otherwise, there was no murder, more like an unintentional suicide by cop.

    We need to hold cops accountable for their behavior during arrests.
    They shouldn't use more force than necessary; and certainly should not use lethal force unless somebody's life or safety is being immediately threatened.
    And they should be as respectful to those being arrested as that person's behavior allows, but sometimes it's going to get rough, whether it should or not, and that's what we need to address.

    Maybe my suspicions will be proven wrong, but I don't think the force used by this cop had any more effect on the outcome than slapping the guy on the cheek would have had.
    He didn't commit murder is my suspicion.

    But the facts are not going to matter to the criminal rioters and looters who are being referred to as "protesters".
    They want the blood of cops, even if the facts show that the cops didn't cause the death of this convicted violent offender.

    We may have already seen justice for George, it's not to be found at Target after hours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    I think when all of the facts come out, they may have trouble convicting the cop of anything to do with causing the death of Floyd.
    My suspicion is that the medical evidence will show that the action by the cop - even though unnecessary and excessive under the circumstances - did nothing to contribute to the death.

    It wasn't murder.

    Floyd apparently had some serious heath issues including heart disease and very high blood pressure, the stress of the situation may well have triggered a fatal medical event.
    The resistance he put up initially likely played a factor in that.

    It's not being discussed much, but he did resist somewhat initially.
    He resisted being removed from his vehicle.
    He resisted being handcuffed, and he resisted being placed into a police vehicle.
    He was largely cooperative once he was handcuffed, but not so much prior to that; although from what I could see in the video, his resistance wasn't violent; more like physically uncooperative.

    That's not said to defend the cops, but to illuminate the facts.

    And of course, the whole reason the cops were interacting with him was that he supposedly used a bogus $20 bill to buy some smokes.
    The 911 call has the clerk reporting that the guy was either drunk or under the influence, acting "out of control", and that he refused to give back the merchandise when they realized the money was fake. I've read a transcript of the call, it reads a bit weird, like the caller maybe wasn't a native English speaker.

    But that brings us to this:

    Floyd - allegedly while under the influence of something - also allegedly passed counterfeit money.
    He was in the driver seat of the vehicle when the cops approached him, that suggests that if he was actually drugged or intoxicated, that he was driving in that condition; which of course is a crime.

    Furthermore, if he did pass the counterfeit cash, that would also be a crime - a felony under most circumstances - committed by a guy previously convicted of multiple felonies, including at least two armed, violent crimes and several drug offenses.

    We've all seen that the primary cop in this unfortunate event has had several negative marks on his behavior over the years, and that might be pertinent.
    We also see that Floyd has a violent criminal past too, which likely would have been a problem for him being arrested for another felony.

    Where I'm going here is that Floyd was no innocent, "minding my own business" black guy being victimized by a racist cop, his alleged criminal activity precipitated this event.
    The cop - IMO - used unnecessary tactics considering that the man was already down and restrained.

    My suspicion is that when the facts are established, is that while the behavior of the cop was excessive, that behavior was only cosmetically significant - it looked really bad on video - but it likely played no role in the death of the man. I project that the facts will show that his death was the result of underlying health issues perhaps aggravated by the stress of the event, an event that was precipitated solely by the criminal activity of the convicted violent felon Floyd.

    If the facts show that the knee to the neck caused or contributed to the death, then the cop murdered him, at least in the third degree.
    Otherwise, there was no murder, more like an unintentional suicide by cop.

    We need to hold cops accountable for their behavior during arrests.
    They shouldn't use more force than necessary; and certainly should not use lethal force unless somebody's life or safety is being immediately threatened.
    And they should be as respectful to those being arrested as that person's behavior allows, but sometimes it's going to get rough, whether it should or not, and that's what we need to address.

    Maybe my suspicions will be proven wrong, but I don't think the force used by this cop had any more effect on the outcome than slapping the guy on the cheek would have had.
    He didn't commit murder is my suspicion.

    But the facts are not going to matter to the criminal rioters and looters who are being referred to as "protesters".
    They want the blood of cops, even if the facts show that the cops didn't cause the death of this convicted violent offender.

    We may have already seen justice for George, it's not to be found at Target after hours.
    Where did you see this or did you just read it somewhere? Just curious. Because if there's a vid, I want to see it myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Where did you see this or did you just read it somewhere? Just curious. Because if there's a vid, I want to see it myself.
    I had read yesterday that he had put up some resistance initially.
    This morning, I saw a video - the story with the video was all about how he didn't resist, there was no resistance, videos show that he didn't resist - "except for a brief struggle..."

    If you watch the vid on the link below, you can see the cop approach Floyd on the driver side of the vehicle.
    The view is largely blocked by the vehicle, but you can see that a - I'll call it brief, "minor struggle" is going on - the area of interest is highlighted on the vid.
    After they escort him to the sidewalk, it is said that he would not cooperate or get into the cop car - that he resisted by purposely falling down and\or refusing to walk.
    That is supposedly how he wound up on the ground with the cops holding him down.

    The district attorney’s report cites the account given by police: “Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still.”

    The "struggle" starts at about the 25 second mark.
    You can mainly see shoulders and legs moving, obscured by the vehicle.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/05/29/why-george-floyd-was-arrested-and-what-happened-in-the-minutes-following/


    Whatever anyone might think it shows, it does not show the guy simply getting out and cooperating.

    The media is stoking the racial "death by bad cop" aspect of this.
    We don't know yet what killed the man or if the cops "did it", they may well have; but we don't know.
    Yet most of the media outlets are reporting that, "he was killed by the police", or that "he died after having a knee placed on his neck".
    Well, he also died after he got out of bed that morning, and he died after the sun came up that day; but neither one of those events caused his death.
    Maybe the knee on the neck did, WE DO NOT YET KNOW.
    But we will.

    Ironically and surprisingly, the only mention I've seen of this in the media that is indisputably true came from Fox News.
    Yeah - Fox Freaking News.
    They had an interview with the police chief of Detroit and stated that, "Floyd died while in police custody".
    That's 100% true and does not imply that he died as a result of being in police custody; it simply states what we do know with certainty at this moment.

    So all this violence is taking place all over the country, the cops will have to start shooting rioters or it is not going to stop, and much of than anger is based upon the belief that the cops killed him, which the media is stoking; and that may or may not be true.

    The media is also reporting now that cops are using excessive violence on protesters - they "have batons".
    These aren't all protesters - they are rioters and looters - and there is no such thing as excessive violence in a riot.
    Curfews and telling people to go home, arresting however many you can, etc. won't put a dent in it; it will simply spread and get bigger and worse as thugs see that they can get away with it. The only thing that will work - and it will work instantly - is as soon as somebody throws a rock or a brick or breaks a window, you shoot him dead where he stands and you leave the body right where it falls. The rioters get the hell out of harm's way pronto and the word spreads across the nation fast that rioters are being shot; and then there are no more riots.

    He died in custody - that much we know, the rest is just assumption or speculation.
    And he would not have been in custody had he not been reported as being in the act of committing a crime.
    At least it wasn't a violent crime - this time.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  37. #37
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    I couldn't watch that vid because that site would not allow me to pause my adblocker. Sooooo.


  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    I couldn't watch that vid because that site would not allow me to pause my adblocker. Sooooo.
    I use Adblock Plus - it didn't give me a problem.
    I went and found the same vid from that news channel on Youtube.
    Again, it's at about the 25 second mark.
    It's not like a fight is taking place, but you can see a quick struggle or scuffle based upon the movement of the legs and shoulders that are barely visible in spite of the vehicle blocking most of the view.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    I can certainly understand the protesting, but the violence and looting are largely just crimes of opportunity by people inclined to lawlessness to begin with, IMO.
    I suspect that these events will be the way a lot of people remember the victim, as much as him being remembered for the circumstances under which he was killed.
    It's safe to say that justice won't be found next to the 50" TV's stolen from Target.

    I support violence too - against the looters.
    They should be shot dead where they stand.
    So you believe that destruction of a building and stealing a TV should be capital crimes? And in addition to that you believe these people are not entitled to a jury trial, but rather you find the police trustworthy enough to serve as judge, jury, and executioner?

    Those were rhetorical questions, but here's a non-rhetorical one:

    Are you sure you're anti-Trump?
    Sincerely yours,
    Upset

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    One of our apartment managers just knocked on each door of each apartment on all six floors to tell us to not go outside after 7:00 p.m. (this is a 55+ building with extensive security as well). Why? Are we suddenly living in a police state, under Marshall Law, do we have a vampire infestation? Nope. Apparently, protestors (whom he called rioters and looters) have been trying to get into town by bus to protest this killing all day. Those with a permit to demonstrate will be allowed in via the two highway entrances into town. Others have been turned away by state police. We're near one of the highway entrances.

    I don't believe that permits would be issued for "rioting and looting", so I think he's being rather judgemental. It would be unconstitutional to deny permits for a peaceful protest; therefore, I have no problem with this. I went next door to ask my mom if she'd answered the door, and did she want me to take out her trash now because of this. She said yes to the first, while laughing, and no, honey to the second. She feels the manager is also being prejudicial. It's good to let us know what's going on, but not like that. Agreed.

    Another thing I agree on is that Jim and everyone else in this thread has a right to his or her opinion. That doesn't include getting personal. It's an Internet forum. Nothing said here will change the world because it's just a group of Scott's fans talking to eachother. Talking to eachother is my point. When we take personal pokes at another member for his or her opinion, we break one of the forum rules. Let's not because none of us likes doling out cards or bans and no one likes receiving them. Please keep that in mind when posting.
    Last edited by SomeChick; 05-31-2020 at 06:50 PM.
    .

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    So you believe that destruction of a building and stealing a TV should be capital crimes? And in addition to that you believe these people are not entitled to a jury trial, but rather you find the police trustworthy enough to serve as judge, jury, and executioner?

    Those were rhetorical questions, but here's a non-rhetorical one:

    Are you sure you're anti-Trump?
    First of all - it's good to see you posting again - I have missed your commentary.


    It's like this:
    Scenario 1: Two guys are walking down the street and they pass by an electronics store with a 50" smart TV in the window.
    One guy picks up a brick and throws it through the window, setting off the alarm. The other guy grabs the TV just as a cop rounds the corner, and off they go running.
    The cop should chase them, memorize what they look like and do his best to catch them as long as he can do so without risking the safety of bystanders or his own life or safety. If they get away, it was their lucky day.
    Scenario 2: 3000 people are walking down streets and side walks in a peaceful demonstration.
    A couple of guys start breaking windows and setting fires while the cops yell for people to disperse.
    Upon seeing those guys breaking windows and setting fires, the cops shoot them dead and everybody goes home except for peaceful protesters.

    That's how that should work.

    Damaging or stealing property is not a capital crime, starting a riot or looting is.
    I'm afraid we'll have to trust the cops to do it since most of us don't have badges.

    Glad to see you back.
    Last edited by SomeChick; 05-31-2020 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Quoted post that broke the rules removed.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    First of all - it's good to see you posting again - I have missed your commentary.


    It's like this:
    Scenario 1: Two guys are walking down the street and they pass by an electronics store with a 50" smart TV in the window.
    One guy picks up a brick and throws it through the window, setting off the alarm. The other guy grabs the TV just as a cop rounds the corner, and off they go running.
    The cop should chase them, memorize what they look like and do his best to catch them as long as he can do so without risking the safety of bystanders or his own life or safety. If they get away, it was their lucky day.
    Scenario 2: 3000 people are walking down streets and side walks in a peaceful demonstration.
    A couple of guys start breaking windows and setting fires while the cops yell for people to disperse.
    Upon seeing those guys breaking windows and setting fires, the cops shoot them dead and everybody goes home except for peaceful protesters.


    That's how that should work.

    Damaging or stealing property is not a capital crime, starting a riot or looting is.
    I'm afraid we'll have to trust the cops to do it since most of us don't have badges.

    Glad to see you back.
    So a more "desirable" outcome to the situation justifies getting rid of due process? I don't want to live in that America, although sadly in a sense I already do.

    If that much shit is going to hit the fan, maybe we should just declare martial law. I am certainly less concerned about systemic racism in the military.

    Thanks. It's good to be back, I guess. It has seemed to me that these forums have kind of been dying off for some time now. Or maybe it's just that I don't find a lot I want to comment on anymore. This thread being an obvious exception.
    Sincerely yours,
    Upset

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    The histrionics about rioting and looting here were just that. Yep, 70% of adults here carry weapons and have concealed carry permits. Yes, they brought those weapons because the hysteria was unnecessarily hyped. Yes, busloads of protesters with permits showed up. No, there was no rioting or looting. The state police, local sheriffs, and local police were present. No arrests were made, and no damage was done aside from a couple of idiots, having nothing to do with the demonstration, yelling at eachother, creating parking space drama out front.

    Yes, there was a peaceful protest that followed our state's current rules of social distancing and wore masks. Dozens of protesters laid down on the ground for nine minutes to honor the victim. Then protesters stood up while one spoke about why they chose this method of protest. People watched, and everyone dispersed. The whole thing lasted about two hours from the first people showing up to the last officer to leave.

    Every business on this street is family owned and everyone who lives here knows at least some of the business owners personally. That's obvious as soon as a person arrives in town. Whenever there's been damage to a local business, it's been caused by druggies trying to break in to stores or homeless folks breaking in and starting fires in empty buildings at night trying to keep warm in the winter.

    All of that is why my mom laughed when I stopped by her place before the protest started. Hysteria doesn't stop rioting or looting. They are the product of it. I'm far from happy about what happened to George Floyd, but breaking a window in my friend's store next door and ripping her off would hurt her and not bring Mr. Floyd back. While the peaceful demonstration tonight got people to think about what happened, and was therefore effective.
    .

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  44. #44
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    I went to our local rally yesterday.

    https://imgur.com/a/Ikh8XSg

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    So a more "desirable" outcome to the situation justifies getting rid of due process? I don't want to live in that America, although sadly in a sense I already do.

    If that much shit is going to hit the fan, maybe we should just declare martial law. I am certainly less concerned about systemic racism in the military.

    Thanks. It's good to be back, I guess. It has seemed to me that these forums have kind of been dying off for some time now. Or maybe it's just that I don't find a lot I want to comment on anymore. This thread being an obvious exception.
    Desirable?
    Of course not.
    But gangs of lawless thugs cannot be allowed to rule the streets and take whatever they wish while destroying whatever else.
    Protesting is the most American thing there is - but allowing rioters and looters to destroy the neighborhoods and livelihoods of others - especially others who had nothing to do with the wrongs being protested - can't be allowed. If you could just arrest a few and shut it down, that's great and that's the thing to do so do it. We see how well that's worked and protected the innocent the last few days, and we'll likely continue to see that.

    I think there's a real possibility that some change will begin from this.
    Violence and destruction will blur the lines between the legitimate societal wrongs and the lawless ambitions and cause some to equate the whole effort and everybody supporting it with anarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeChick View Post
    The histrionics about rioting and looting here were just that. Yep, 70% of adults here carry weapons and have concealed carry permits. Yes, they brought those weapons because the hysteria was unnecessarily hyped. Yes, busloads of protesters with permits showed up. No, there was no rioting or looting. The state police, local sheriffs, and local police were present. No arrests were made, and no damage was done aside from a couple of idiots, having nothing to do with the demonstration, yelling at eachother, creating parking space drama out front.

    Yes, there was a peaceful protest that followed our state's current rules of social distancing and wore masks. Dozens of protesters laid down on the ground for nine minutes to honor the victim. Then protesters stood up while one spoke about why they chose this method of protest. People watched, and everyone dispersed. The whole thing lasted about two hours from the first people showing up to the last officer to leave.

    Every business on this street is family owned and everyone who lives here knows at least some of the business owners personally. That's obvious as soon as a person arrives in town. Whenever there's been damage to a local business, it's been caused by druggies trying to break in to stores or homeless folks breaking in and starting fires in empty buildings at night trying to keep warm in the winter.

    All of that is why my mom laughed when I stopped by her place before the protest started. Hysteria doesn't stop rioting or looting. They are the product of it. I'm far from happy about what happened to George Floyd, but breaking a window in my friend's store next door and ripping her off would hurt her and not bring Mr. Floyd back. While the peaceful demonstration tonight got people to think about what happened, and was therefore effective.
    Excellent!
    Did your mom get her trash out?
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  46. #46
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    George Floyd died of ‘asphyxia to neck’: family medical examiner’s report as per Dr Baden

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/george...ly-mes-report/

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    George Floyd died of ‘asphyxia to neck’: family medical examiner’s report as per Dr Baden


    https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/george...ly-mes-report/
    Thanks for sharing!

  48. #48
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    Official cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression,” according to the official report by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/offici...-floyds-death/

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    Official cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression,” according to the official report by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/01/offici...-floyds-death/
    He had a heart attack while being restrained, I think is the gist of that; I believe they've been asked to clarify.
    Odd that the Medical Examiner and the independent examiner were so far apart concerning other health issues - listed as significant by one and none by the other.
    And the independent didn't make mention of fentanyl intoxication and recent amphetamine use as the ME did, might be waiting for new lab work, IDK.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    He had a heart attack while being restrained, I think is the gist of that; I believe they've been asked to clarify.
    Odd that the Medical Examiner and the independent examiner were so far apart concerning other health issues - listed as significant by one and none by the other.
    And the independent didn't make mention of fentanyl intoxication and recent amphetamine use as the ME did, might be waiting for new lab work, IDK.
    The ME said "possible".

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