Upset, Dycaite22, since a mod hasn't told you yet, time to cool it and both move on, also you're both disrupting the board and do not requote a quote that is in violation of this rule.
Sincerely yours,
Upset
Purely by instinct, I think this is fake. So much static/tracking problems, the voice is heavily distorted, the violent reaction to the shot seems...."off". I am no expert - but it just feels wrong somehow.
If it IS a fake, I think Seagorath did it.
Sincerely yours,
Upset
This is a "debunking" of the video, which doesn't really cover any new ground. (Gordon Galbraith says it's fake, and Gordon Galbraith is the Voice of God...) The one interesting thing about this video is that the poster claims to know Nation Squid, and to have asked him about it. His alleged response? "I'm sorry, but the information that I have on the source of the video has to remain strictly confidential, at least for some time. Consider this, if I had faked it, I wouldn't tell anybody, and if I had found it, I couldn't tell anybody."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsAqpIlFm3E
Sincerely yours,
Upset
Junior Death Hag
I completely agree that everybody has a right to have their own opinion and I apologise if I got at all snarky there. But can you not see why I'm frustrated? I presented someone with a piece of evidence, they ignored it completely and claimed I had presented no such evidence. Opinion has nothing to do with it, it's about people picking and choosing the evidence that is convenient to their argument and then blatantly ignoring all the rest that annoys me. Sorry again if I caused any offence.
I am not going to say if it's real for fake until I have absolute proof, ie. someone from Christine's family saying yay or nay, or the woman who has the copy of the tape that she gave to a law office, or Sally Quinn herself, or the person that released the video
Varied opinion is everything on FAD. My job is to enforce that, not fact find. In the words of our creator, Scott Michaels: "Why let the truth get in the way of a good story?" This is the last time I will warn you to respect your fellow FAD members' opinions. Quit beating a dead horse and read FAQs, especially Rule 4.
Last edited by cindyt; 03-16-2017 at 05:59 PM.
I was not personally attacking anybody, I was just growing frustrated that people were not acknowledging what I was saying. You say that we should respect each others' opinions, that should go both ways, no? I'm not trying to start an argument, truly. I just wish people would acknowledge what I was saying, as I acknowledge what they say.
Hey friends. I just watched Kate Plays Christine. I wasn't expecting much because the trailer didn't look promising to me, but being interested in this story, I had to give it a chance. It's kind of a baffling film. I assume that everything outside of the appearances by "real people" (the wig woman, psychologist, gun store owner, ex Channel 40 workers, etc.) is acted/scripted, but it's difficult to tell if Kate was being herself or acting like she wasn't acting. She comes off as low-key and detached, and when playing Christine, I don't think she looked, talked or acted like Christine, unlike Rebecca Hall. My theory is the filmmakers started out wanting to make a 'Christine'-style film, a straight dramatic story, but realized their writing and acting wasn't cutting it, so they switched gears and decided to make a mockumentary about a film that doesn't exist. The snippets of the 'film' are pretty cheesy, which may be intentional. There's a lot going on, and I'll have to give it another watch or two to make sense of it. I thought the commentary from the real people was the best part of the movie, by far. In fact, the anecdotes from the Channel 40 guys and the woman who knew Tim Chubbuck made the bits of Kate playing Christine seem like nonsense. I almost wish they would have gone with a straight documentary and dug up some more information on Christine that no one knows about. There's lot a lot out there to begin with, so the film could have been more of a success and a proper tribute instead of being a kind of meta experiment.
My thoughts on the "leaked footage":
- The camera angle and timestamp: I think it's very possible that there were 2 camera operators there that morning (this seems to be disputed) and that this footage is an "alternate angle" and not what went out live. Gordon says that it's fake because the broadcasted footage (evidently, what was on the monitor that he watched and what went out live) was a tighter shot. That may be true, but if there were 2 cameras rolling, this could be the "Camera 2" angle. To me, the timestamp looks authentic, and it would confirm that the footage came from an internal source (i.e., the station) and wasn't taped off of TV. Asking someone who claims to have seen it live on TV to determine if this footage is real would carry little weight. First of all, it may not be the angle that actually went out live. Second, someone's memory of an event from 43 years ago wouldn't be that sharp. Regarding the timestamp, I don't understand why it isn't on the "Technical Difficulties" screen. This leads me to believe that this screen came from a different source, which is possible, but it seems fishy.
- The act: the sound of the gunshot and the physical reaction don't really sync up. This could be because of the quality of the tape, but again, it doesn't feel right. I remember reading somewhere (possibly the Sally Quinn article) that someone who saw the actual footage said "it didn't look real." That statement may actually give a pass to this appearing a bit unnatural. We've all been desensitized by TV and movies and are used to seeing people dying beautifully staged and perfectly lit deaths, so the weirdness of the appearance of this may actually be normal.
- The set: to me, everything matches up with the photo of the man behind the actual desk leaning forward, EXCEPT for the "H" in NEWSWATCH. The "H" is so off that I actually think the people responsible for this footage "built that in" as a wink to let people know that the footage isn't real. It just doesn't line up with the "H" in the 1974 photo. Even though the desk is curved and the photo is taken from a different angle than the video camera shot, it still doesn't match, at all.
- The video quality: if someone digitally transferred the tape of the actual footage, I would expect the quality to be as poor as this footage. However, the static/distortion doesn't look authentic to me. The way the video shifts around looks faked, and the build-up of interference around the time she brings the gun up is too convenient.
The interview footage with the Channel 40 guys in KPC strengthens my belief that the actual footage is indeed at the law firm and that it may have never leaked onto an FBI training video or some death compilation. There is just no compelling evidence or proof that the real footage ever floated around on dubbed VHS tapes or during the early era of the internet. I still think that Sally Quinn is the person most qualified to say whether the footage is real. She apparently sat down with the actual footage and examined/studied it when she wrote her article, which detailed exactly what happened. Even though she wasn't in the studio when it happened, she knows the FOOTAGE perhaps better than anyone alive.
Now that a little time has passed since the "leaking" of the footage, I think it's fake. Most everyone familiar with this story wants it to be real, and that's a strong force, but not enough to make it real. It originated from an obscure, no-name youtube source with no fanfare or comments from the leaker whatsoever. Why did it happen to leak at the exact same time that 2 films about Christine Chubbuck are released? I think it would have been removed from youtube if it was real. Greg Chubbuck would probably have enough pull to have it taken down. There would have been some official word from a credible source by now verifying that it's real. I think it's asinine to suggest that the scene was "recreated" by Channel 40 in the studio shortly after the actual event. I'd think that would be the last thing that the employees would want to do at the time, and they wouldn't have had the foresight to know that this would become a "lost media" curiosity. I don't think it would be exceptionally difficult or costly to do a recreation as good as this. Use old Channel 40 footage and the photo of the man leaning forward at the desk as guides, and hide any details/nuance with distortion/static effects. I do think it's an eerily accurate recreation overall.
It may be a crazy thought, but I think there is a chance that the actual footage will reach the public someday (as long as the tape hasn't disintegrated, another good point brought up by the ex station worker in KPC). It has been confirmed that the tape exists. Why wasn't it destroyed? Why did Bob Nelson pass it to his wife? What exactly were his "wishes"? There has to be more to that story than meets the eye. If everyone involved wanted to forget this ever happened (which is likely), I would have thought that the tape would have been destroyed. The ex station worker in KPC claims that Mollie Nelson wanted to throw the tape in the bay but has held on to it. Why? What will become of it when she dies? I assume that Bob Nelson wants something to happen to the tape when Mollie Nelson passes. Otherwise, he would have discarded it, or she would have discarded it. Maybe Bob thought some crazy person would offer Mollie a lot of cash for the tape one day, and as a result, she would have an extra financial cushion in her later years. Perhaps we should crowdsource and raise some money for this cause?
Junior Death Hag
Wow!! Seems like since the movie/movies came out, everyone lost interest.
No we haven't lost interest, just nothing much to talk about.
These are all interesting questions that I've asked myself as well since it's surfaced that the Mollie Nelson indeed actually has in her possession this lone quad tape of the Chubbuck incident.
In theory, what I have bolded, is actually a good idea.
In reality, however, not so much.
This thread has gotten a fair bit of press (for a thread on a message board anyway) over the years, and some have been somewhat negative because of the nature of the thread itself (trying to dig up a forty year old suicide tape). If we actually were to do this, and Mollie would go through with it (no way in a million years...if she were actually willing to sell it, the only way it would ever happen is via private sale to some millionaire collector who wants to keep it for himself - or possibly donating it to an organization on the condition it not be released to the public for x amount of years, if ever) there would probably be an internet lynch mob and possible legal issues; it would be an absolute shit show of epic proportions.
Plus the emotional pain it would cause...though we're all curious about this footage, it just isn't worth hurting someone over its release. If it's ever made available publicly, it needs to be when her family and her acquaintances/friends can't be hurt by it.
Last edited by Michael555; 04-09-2017 at 10:00 PM.
Junior Death Hag
Once again I am not going to say it's real or fake but I know what I saw, also how clear would anyone's memories be after 43 years? Granted people back in the day had no way to put the tape to digital but this day and age they do, Someone could have smuggled a copy of the tape out also there were two cameras there that day, just because someone says that one of them wasn't on doesn't mean that it wasn't, someone could have had the camera rolling without letting everyone know, until someone from the current movie comes forward and says that the footage that was posted was one of their scenes or if someone from her family comes forward and says yay or nay, I am not going to say otherwise as well.
I actually had a conversation with someone about this very topic and we both agreed that it's better that the footage has been hidden away for so long. As you said, through this thread we were actually able to discuss and discover bits and pieces of this story, pictures that we otherwise never would've seen....and what could've caused her to do what she did.
If the footage had been out there, I doubt that either of the two movies about her would've ever been made; there wouldn't be that aura of mystery surrounding her. It would've all been there in that footage. Maybe not what caused her to do what she did, true, but everything that happened in her life would be present in that final few minutes of her life. Maybe we would've discussed the article that was written, but I doubt we would've had over sixty pages dedicated to her.
Even if the footage were released today, however, it wouldn't tell us exactly what triggered her to come to the decision to do this. Yes, we all know the details of her personal life (virgin at 29, boyfriend who died, etc etc) but we don't know exactly what it was that triggered her to do it the way she did it. In truth, it was probably all of it, mixed with a horrible chemical imbalance. We'll never know for sure. But, as you said, it's important to have the conversation in the first place.
Though, where you and I differ is that I do think the footage will be made available. The fact that it wasn't destroyed, and was given over to lawyers, tells me that something maybe done...hell, it could've already been transferred. We have no idea. I just did a cursory google search for quad tape transfer services and I see there are at least two sites that offer it.
Last edited by Michael555; 04-13-2017 at 08:27 AM.
Yes Michael, you can even buy dvd/vcr combos now that you can transfer movies from vcr to dvd right in your own home and we have I think a place here that transfers quad tape as well.
Mornin Hags! Ive been stalking your board for years. Of all of my Haggary the Chubbuck situation is the only think that kinda makes me a little ashamed of myself. I gave in and decided to watch both of the films which obviously reignited a 20+ year near obsession and now I am here, no longer stalking and am seriously considering an all out YouTube bombardment of Steve Newman's crappy channel. I have no desire to watch *the* video but would do just about anything to see a full SCD episode. How much do you thing weatherman Steve's price is? His whole "I'm doing it out of respect" schtick sounds like nonsense. Were that truly the case why release any of it? (Blvd of Broken Dreams and Kate Plays Christine) The whole situation has always upset me; especially knowing that everyone in her life doubts our sincere interest in her story and are determined to let her fade away into history. Such a beautiful girl. Anybody making the pilgrimage this year? Can't wait to be back in Sarasota again! And for the record, I firmly believe there are other copies of the tape besides Molly's.
I doubt that Steve Newman would be willing to give up a copy for any amount of money. He's been asked for years by youtubers to upload that episode and he's always told anyone asking, very politely, no.
As for *the tape*, there were copies at one time, but according to the station director (I believe that was his title), those were destroyed in the 80s. Beyond that, as far as anyone knows, Mollie Nelson's copy is the only one.
Found this little bit of information about reel-to-reel tapes: http://presrec.com/reel.htm
It all depends on how its been stored all these years.
Last edited by Michael555; 04-13-2017 at 04:10 PM.
Despite how much we disagree, I suppose he feels it his right to keep it away from everyone. Still, the releasing of bits of it make his motivation highly suspect, in my opinion at least. It seems like there are 2 camps of Chubbuck hags, the 7/15 hags and the hags who genuinely want her memory preserved; not saying that the factions cannot overlap. In Steve's eyes we're all blood and guts
enthusiasts. It all seems counterproductive to me. If the goal is to let her RIP doesn't it make sense that the more "verboten" something is, the more appealing it seems? I swear,the SCD hospital zoning episode is almost more of a "holy grail" than the final episode.
https://youtu.be/b3IuBHdM95k I posted this here since CC is the first story. Sorry I don't know how to make it a clickable link. My computer skills are very basic. Enjoy. Never mind wen I hit post it worked.
I'm ready for some new CC footage. The suicide tape bores me at this point. Been there, done that,
Sincerely yours,
Upset
Yeah, if the tape has still yet to be released (I belong in that camp, just my opinion of course), I can't imagine it being much more graphic than depicted in Christine. Though I would like to see her news report leading up to that moment besides just the moment itself.
I would also like to see that Suncoast Digest 'Hospital' footage. Though, from the small pieces of footage we've seen, Rebecca Hall seems to have captured Christine quite well. I think when/if those two missing pieces come to light, I think the aura of mystery surrounding her will be lost and the whole thing can, finally, be put to rest.
The most important piece of information surrounding her is something we can never know; what was she thinking? What exactly was going through her mind that led her to do this. We can speculate but we will never really know the answer.
Last edited by Michael555; 05-02-2017 at 03:38 PM.
Hey Everyone,
Revisiting this after a decade long hiatus (researched this while in college) I have been looking for the police report and cannot seem to find it (there's bits of it here and there on this thread). If someone could send it to me, that would be fantastic. Like a few others have said, I am more interested in seeing more Suncoast Digest footage as opposed to THE episode.
Thanks again!
Having those missing pieces would definitely help demystify CC and her legacy but, and maybe I'm a weirdo, I'm not sure if that wouldn't be a disservice to her. She is/was a person who does not deserve to be lost into history. Her story is compelling on so many different levels. Don't get me wrong, a full episode of SCD is basically my only dream in life at this point, not really but you get what I'm saying.
I wish someone would try to make something, a book, movie, documentary, about the other 29 years of her life. I can't speak for others here but, it seems that most of us aren't just looking to see some gore- hell, if someone offered to show me the 15 JUL 74 tape tomorrow I'd refuse- it seems we are interested in the person, compassionately nearly a love for her. And why not? Dollars to donuts a great number of us have been in a spot similar to how we believe she felt. I'm man enough to admit that I have.
I think someone earlier in this thread said that they knew someone that was actually writing a book about her right now; I think it was Aviatrix. Apparently there was a feature length documentary that could've been made out of that short documentary that was aired on E!. There was enough footage to make it into one, from what I remember, but it never happened.
Oh don't get me wrong, I would still be curious about her, even if those two pieces of footage came out; and I still would like to know the "whole" story. If it can ever truly be known.
This might be a bit of an odd comparison but I kind of see her in a slightly similar way as I see Sylvia Plath. Plath has a novel and two journals missing that could turn up in a few years at Emory University, both would give us some of the finer details of her last few years (as well as just having more of her wonderful writing) just as Christine's lost footage could, maybe, give us a little more insight into Christine herself. Sure, for both, we have sketchy details and second-hand information but there's a huge difference between that and actually seeing something (or in Plath's case, reading her thoughts and stories, in her own words) for yourself.
Though, I have to disagree with you. If someone presented me with the opportunity to see the tape, I would watch it. When I saw that short documentary in 2007, I had never heard of this story, and was dumbstruck. While the documentary was describing what happened, I recall having the curiosity of wanting to see this footage for myself; I'd never had the want to see something like that before but for whatever reason, this had struck a chord. I remember thinking, as the credits rolled, and there was the little caption about an injunction being placed: Please. The internet has everything.
Well here I am. Ten years later. And apparently, the internet doesn't have everything.
Edit: Saw this youtube comment here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcWb-BvKrMk
yes i got a few responses just a few days later after i posted that...sorry i forgot to post what i learned. so about 3 people got back to me but only 1 remembers and said he saw the actual suicide. so i talked to this guy for about 30 minutes.. a 62 year old man. he said he saw it all and remembers a couple details that stood out the most. what he said was when she shot herself she fell forward. but she did not hit the desk hard like that (like in this video here). she also did not fall right to the floor after hitting her head (like in the video here). he said that she just fell on the desk where she remained laying over it. she stayed on the desk and he said that she looked like she was sleeping. he said he didnt recall any blood or damage, but the camera remained on her for several seconds before it cut away. he also mentioned that the camera was centered directly on her and that there was not an extra chair (as shown in this video here). he says he remembers enough of what he saw that he would be willing to bet money that this is definitely a fake. i have no reasons to doubt this man and what he says. hes an older gentleman so he spoke (wrote) politely, showed me respect, his responses to my questions were detailed, he showed compassion for the woman, was interested in my inquiry on the matter, and overall from what I gather I have to think he was trustworthy and telling the truth. i personally wanted him to confirm that this video was indeed authentic, but I have to think with complete conviction after we spoke that this is a hoax. maybe thats for the best.
Last edited by Michael555; 05-11-2017 at 05:32 PM.
Not strange at all, a very apt comparison really. The lost Plath journals are something I have dreamed about for a long time too. I hope that whoever is writing the book finishes and gets it published. I would really love to see something positive about Chris. It's funny, but her death tape is the only piece of "forbidden footage" I have no desire to see. Probably because of the emotional attachment I have placed on her story. I first read about CC in 1998, when I was still in high school and super despondent. While researching public suicide, I read a little blurb about the incident in a book called, Killing For Culture and became obsessed with finding out more. Which I did. I was interested in it because I was planning on doing it. Reading the Quinn article changed it for me. I found it to be so cynical and accusatory, with not one drop of sympathy. Not knowing her or her true motivation I could only superimpose my own motivations, which were anger, loneliness, and the ability to control the narrative. Seeing that someone did it, and was still misunderstood and painted so negatively really bothered me..to the point of talking to my parents and getting the help I needed. In a macabre way, CC might have saved my life.
The only thing that gets me though, is that she wanted us to see it. I just don't think I could. I could not even watch the hoax tape until I was 100% convinced that it was a hoax. Full disclosure, I couldn't watch the end of the Christine movie either. I'm just happy that people are talking about her again. There's something about 2017 that needs Chris and her story. Maybe the constant bombardment of "fake news" or at least the accusations of it. Maybe the commercialization of journalism. I really don't know.
In case anyone is interested or has not seen it yet, the movie Christine is on Netflix.
Awwwww yeahhhhhh - weekend flick in full effect!!!
My Posse's On Broadway
Here's an entire essay about the subject; It's a very interesting read: https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals...view/4514/4139
Oh I can totally understand why someone wouldn't want to see it; just to imagine it is horrifying.I hope that whoever is writing the book finishes and gets it published. I would really love to see something positive about Chris. It's funny, but her death tape is the only piece of "forbidden footage" I have no desire to see. Probably because of the emotional attachment I have placed on her story. I first read about CC in 1998, when I was still in high school and super despondent. While researching public suicide, I read a little blurb about the incident in a book called, Killing For Culture and became obsessed with finding out more. Which I did. I was interested in it because I was planning on doing it. Reading the Quinn article changed it for me. I found it to be so cynical and accusatory, with not one drop of sympathy. Not knowing her or her true motivation I could only superimpose my own motivations, which were anger, loneliness, and the ability to control the narrative. Seeing that someone did it, and was still misunderstood and painted so negatively really bothered me..to the point of talking to my parents and getting the help I needed. In a macabre way, CC might have saved my life.
Oh yeah I would love to read an entire book about her; I'm not sure how much more there is to tell, though. It would be interesting to see if there's even more that we don't know.
When I heard about her story, I was also somewhat depressed, not extremely, but somewhat and then I began to slip further and further down and the help I received was...subpar, to say the least. I can understand how someone in the mid-70s, when the the medication wasn't there, and the stigma was so much worse...would end up doing something like this. To be fair to the people who were quoted in the Quinn article, a lot of it, I think, was a reaction to the method she chose to kill herself mixed in with the stigma of suicide and mental illness itself. I'm not saying that I agree with any of them of course, just that I understand why someone who doesn't understand mental illness, and hasn't went through the sheer hell of it, would react in this way.
I don't think it's the least bit macabre to say that CC may've saved your life. At least some good came out of it. I think a lot of good can come out of watching Christine (or reading about her), if only to give people who don't suffer from mental health problems to understand what it's like.
Honestly, I think if Christine had better distribution, there definitely would've been a deeper conversation about the state of journalism today (not to mention, at the very least, an Oscar nomination for Rebecca Hall).The only thing that gets me though, is that she wanted us to see it. I just don't think I could. I could not even watch the hoax tape until I was 100% convinced that it was a hoax. Full disclosure, I couldn't watch the end of the Christine movie either. I'm just happy that people are talking about her again. There's something about 2017 that needs Chris and her story. Maybe the constant bombardment of "fake news" or at least the accusations of it. Maybe the commercialization of journalism. I really don't know.
Let us know your thoughts!
OMG... This movie makes me wanna stab myself in my eye. Soooooo slow and CC is so freakin' awkward, it's hard not to feel sorry for her.
My Posse's On Broadway
The holy grail has been found.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1e9_1486714728
Isn't this the same one we saw before? And decided it is most likely fake.
Yeah, but some people side on it being real and it's caused some tension.
Sorry if I'm late to the discussion, and apologize if this has been posted before. From another site which is also debating the issue. Here is a comparison of the news desk of the station and the desk in the video. Pretty damn close if not identical.
Out of curiosity, of the 60+ pages, where would I find the debate over this?
The H is the most dissimilar letter when comparing the photos. That alone has convinced some people it's fake, but some still aren't sure.
This video was leaked near the end of January 2017, right about the time the two movies on Christine came out. The discussion here begins on page 59.
Appreciate the update.
Sorry, but maybe i didn't express my purpose correctly. There is another mismatch between original logo and the other one in alleged video.But from what I've read, when it aired, it faded to black. There wasn't a technical difficulties sign?
And from those pictures there's a discrepancy between the two: on the top, it's just a circle behind the WXLT logo, the bottom is made to look like a sun.
Last edited by smfr; 06-08-2017 at 11:10 AM.
But from what I've read, when it aired, it faded to black. There wasn't a technical difficulties sign?
And from those pictures there's a discrepancy between the two: on the top, it's just a circle behind the WXLT logo, the bottom is made to look like a sun.
Edit: Oh wait, that logo is on the camera next to Christine...it's certainly possible that logo was re-created...sorry for those who believe it's the real deal, I just don't buy it.
Last edited by Michael555; 06-09-2017 at 04:31 AM.
Junior Death Hag