Christine Chubbuck

[TheWrath of MadelineKahn]

Even if it was a recording from someone's television, the footage would've been in a tight close up, not a wide shot with her face conveniently obscured. It also wouldn't have had the ABC logo with the time stamp at the top while the video is playing.

Excellent point, you can argue what you want about color vs black and white, 1/2 inch vs VHS, but WTH would she not be in a close up if they truly filmed with only one camera?

ETA: For what it's worth, which is debatable, it appears Reddit and 4Chan both think the tape is fake. Something about multiple filters that can accomplish all of the distortion, etc.

Interestingly enough, the tape it isn't a really popular discussion on either site.

I would think the Holy Grail of lost media might be getting more press, other than Adweek no other major media outlet has said a word.

[dan-b]

Excellent point, you can argue what you want about color vs black and white, 1/2 inch vs VHS, but WTH would she not be in a close up if they truly filmed with only one camera?

Conversely, why would she be in close up? Is this something they did routinely for solo shots at that newsdesk?

Have you seen the pictures I posted above? To get the lighting that accurate raises three main possibilities:

1. Someone has gone to extraordinary lengths to recreate the studio conditions precisely, including the original lighting rigging. All for no obvious gain.
2. The video shows the original studio but a different person playing Christine. Someone at the time had the foresight to predict the video would one day be of huge public interest, recreated the scene and has finally followed through with their masterful plan.
3. It's the actual footage.

I know which I think is most likely. Just to recreate the desk with the correct break in the middle would be hard enough, never mind learning of the other dynamics from a now defunct studio setting.

I can't tell if people are calling fake through entrenched severe scepticism due to the long search; fear of looking foolish if it turns out to be fake; or an attempt to be edgy or something. Because it's almost certainly the actual footage.

Originally Posted by TheWrath of MadelineKahn

Excellent point, you can argue what you want about color vs black and white, 1/2 inch vs VHS, but WTH would she not be in a close up if they truly filmed with only one camera?

ETA: For what it's worth, which is debatable, it appears Reddit and 4Chan both think the tape is fake. Something about multiple filters that can accomplish all of the distortion, etc.

Interestingly enough, the tape it isn't a really popular discussion on either site.

I would think the Holy Grail of lost media might be getting more press, other than Adweek no other major media outlet has said a word.

Have any of the "FAKE" crowd on Reddit and 4Chan attempted to explain how the studio lighting was recreated so accurately?

Perhaps other news outlets are being more cautious about reporting because they can't independently verify the video's veracity yet. We don't know if there are injunctions against reporting. Also, although interest in Chubbuck has spiked with the release of the recent films, the suicide footage is still ultimately only of niche interest to certain internet users. I bet none of my friends or family know who Chubbuck is or what she did.

[pkstracy]

If it is a fake whomever did it went to a lot of time and expense to duplicate the set, and such, someone at that station had another copy besides the one that is tucked away at a law office, someone probably thinking this is going to be worth money one day or I'll sell it to whomever the highest bidder of a newspaper or news station is,

[Upset]

Just out of curiosity, I looked at the Sally Quinn article again. It not only mentions 2 camera operators being there that morning, it identifies them by name. Wonder what Gordon would have to say about that...

You should always question authority, even if it's just the authority of somebody saying "trust me, I was there."

But what do I know, maybe there was just one camera and they needed an extra camera person in case the first one decided to shoot herself in the head.

[pkstracy]

I have a feeling two cameras were running, none of us were there that day, why two camera men, if only one camera was used, I think one of the tapes didn't get turned in.

[dionyzus]

Just wanted to mention.. Kate Plays Christine will be available on Netflix DVD on Feb. 28. Looking forward to seeing it!

[Michael555]

Conversely, why would she be in close up? Is this something they did routinely for solo shots at that newsdesk?

That is what Gordon Galbraith said in response to this video and he called it a fake.He was working the day Christine did what she did and he was also the last person she talked to before going on the air that morning.
It's in another post on page 60. Dycaite posted it, I believe.

1. Someone has gone to extraordinary lengths to recreate the studio conditions precisely, including the original lighting rigging. All for no obvious gain.
2. The video shows the original studio but a different person playing Christine. Someone at the time had the foresight to predict the video would one day be of huge public interest, recreated the scene and has finally followed through with their masterful plan.
3. It's the actual footage.

In response to your first point, this video first surfaced here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8agGtFmAJFQ

Why would the Christine Chubbuck video surface in a compilation video on youtube, all about LOST video footage? It wouldn't. The uploader re-enacted this in the hopes that they would get hits to their video, which would drive up their subscriber base, which would get them more hits and, on youtube, with monteziation turned on (and ads playing before and/or during), money. That would be the gain.

Your second point is extremely unlikely and I very much doubt the third.

Over at Lost Media Wiki's forum someone posted every frame. If you all would like to look at it yourselves: http://forums.lostmediawiki.com/post/7922/thread copy and paste the link there into your browser, unzip the file and have a look.

[dan-b]

That is what Gordon Galbraith said in response to this video and he called it a fake.He was working the day Christine did what she did and he was also the last person she talked to before going on the air that morning.
It's in another post on page 60. Dycaite posted it, I believe.


In response to your first point, this video first surfaced here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8agGtFmAJFQ

Why would the Christine Chubbuck video surface in a compilation video on youtube, all about LOST video footage? It wouldn't. The uploader re-enacted this in the hopes that they would get hits to their video, which would drive up their subscriber base, which would get them more hits and, on youtube, with monteziation turned on (and ads playing before and/or during), money. That would be the gain.

Your second point is extremely unlikely and I very much doubt the third.

Over at Lost Media Wiki's forum someone posted every frame. If you all would like to look at it yourselves: http://forums.lostmediawiki.com/post/7922/thread copy and paste the link there into your browser, unzip the file and have a look.

Are you sure that Gordon Galbraith facebook account is genuine and how can you be sure he's not either mistaken or trying to protect the family? I think you're being way too dismissive based on obviously flawed arguments.

I know where the video surfaced, I just don't follow your logic at all. Any gain has to be weighed against any cost - some small time YouTuber isn't going to have the means to recreate the studio conditions so precisely (I again refer you to the comparative pictures I posted above). And even if they did, they're not promoting the video in any serious way at all.

[festerhead]

All of this seems dodgy.

[tejmar]

The video was analyzed by users over at Reddit and some of the findings point to this video being fake. The comments can be found at these two separate threads http://archive.is/Ed3f8 and http://archive.is/gc4w5

[Michael555]

Are you sure that Gordon Galbraith facebook account is genuine and how can you be sure he's not either mistaken or trying to protect the family? I think you're being way too dismissive based on obviously flawed arguments.

Yes, that is his real facebook page. Steve Newman, who also worked with Christine and has the only surviving episode of her Suncoast Digest episode, is showing him the video on facebook.

I know where the video surfaced, I just don't follow your logic at all. Any gain has to be weighed against any cost - some small time YouTuber isn't going to have the means to recreate the studio conditions so precisely (I again refer you to the comparative pictures I posted above). And even if they did, they're not promoting the video in any serious way at all.

My logic is that someone did it for attention and possible revenue. Ever hear of the phrase you have to spend money to make money?
That set couldn't be that complicated to re-create. That video, also, conflicts with eyewitness accounts. Here's Sally Quinn's account who saw the video multiple times while in Sarasota to do a long article about her in The Washington Post:

Christine Chubbuck flicked her long dark hair back away from her face, swallowed, twitched her lips only slightly and reached with her left hand to turn the next page of her script. Looking down on the anchor desk she began to read: “In keeping with Channel 40’s policy of bringing you the latest in” − she looked up from the script, directly into the camera and smiled a tentative smile. Her voice took on a sarcastic tone as she emphasized “blood and guts . . . and in living color.” She looked back down at her script, her left hand shook almost unnoticeably. Her right arm stiffened. “We bring you another first.” Her voice was steady. She looked up again into the camera. Her eyes were dark, direct and challenging. “An attempted suicide.” Her right hand came up from under the anchor desk. In it was a .38 caliber revolver. She pointed it at the lower back of her head and pulled the trigger. A loud crack was heard. A puff of smoke blew out from the gun and her hair flew up around her face as though a sudden gust of wind had caught it. Her face took on a fierce, contorted look, her mouth was wrenched downward, her head shook. Then her body fell forward with a resounding thud against the anchor desk and slowly slipped out of sight.

This account doesn't jive with that video. The person who wrote this article saw the actual video.

[pkstracy]

Hmm Watched the video again and matched with what you posted about Sally Quinn's article, it sure as hell appears it's exactly what is going on, btw that lost footage video isn't where it originally came from, the person that made the lost video footage got it from somewhere else, If I can find the webpage again they state a man remembered recording it on that day and didn't know if he should release it, he decided to after the wife of the station owner or manager confirmed that there is an existing tape but has been hidden, maybe said guy thought it was time the public did see the video as Christine wanted. As for the time stamp and such, I remember seeing some news casts that accidentally flashed their ticker across the screen, I am not saying this is real and I am not saying it's fake but I am not going to quickly dismiss it, things do pop up when no one thought they would. The film in question looks exactly like what I saw on the gore site

[Michael555]

She just hits the desk and falls onto the floor awkwardly. The way her body moves, it just doesn't look real....people who were there say she 'slumped' onto the desk and in that article it says she 'slowly' slips out of site.

[pkstracy]

Look at the Bud Dwyer suicide video he didn't slump down, he fell down, look at other suicide by gun videos on live leak, they don't slump their bodies jerk as if thrown froward or backward or down..even Midas Wilder on youtube says this is the real deal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9M5kxmNOPU, and according to the sally quinn article that you posted part of, it says then her body fell forward with a resounding thud and slipped slowly out of site. , I don't see how her body could have slipped slowly out of site if she hit the desk that hard it's going to knock her down just like in the video.

[Michael555]

I'll remain extremely skeptical until the uploader of the original video says whether or not it's real or fake.

[Shellie]

I'll remain extremely skeptical until the uploader of the original video says whether or not it's real or fake.

Same here. It's awfully suspect that for years no one has been able to find it then all of a sudden, it pops up out of nowhere just as a film about her is doing the rounds. If it does turn out to be real then I'll stand corrected but I just find it a little too fishy.

[festerhead]

Despite all the people questioning the validity of this footage, there does seem to be a large half (maybe more) who speculate this could be real. More than one camera was running that day because you have backups and production cams (for whatever reason) running. If a low-quality segment of this footage were to turn up...more than likely it would be degraded, blurry or tainted by time in some way. The discussion shall continue. Personally, I don't put too much stock into what a couple of "so-called" former employees have to say about this matter. It happened quick that day. They didn't sit around and analyze the footage for kicks back in the early 70s. They didn't absorb the imagery. They went home to their problems like most working folks do.

Also, it does match the Sally Quinn description. Shooting yourself in the head with a .38 is a quick process...and the jolt is probably horrifying. You will slam forward and slip out of sight very quickly in this situation.

[dionyzus]

Two arguments against it being real: the video is zoomed out so you can't really make out her face. A faker knows they can't zoom in too close. And also, it conveniently shows the NEWSWATCH logo in front of the desk, as if to say "look, it's authentic!" But the letter "H" does look too wide when compared with the real set.

Oh and I thought of a third argument against it. I seem to recall that timestamps from the 70s, when used at all, were primitive looking compared to today, large and blocky. The timestamp at the top of this video looks like something from a more recent era.

[Upset]

I guess we are all doing a fairly good job of articulating why we might be leaning toward Real or Memorex. At this point I want to wait for more information to come out about the tape's source, which I assume will happen at some point.

[festerhead]

Good point on the timestamp.

Oh and I thought of a third argument against it. I seem to recall that timestamps from the 70s, when used at all, were primitive looking compared to today, large and blocky. The timestamp at the top of this video looks like something from a more recent era.

[duffyman]

I think that my big objection to its being authentic is the general camera angle. It seems more like footage from a security camera mounted in the room rather than broadcast footage.

[Shadow President]

Doesn't pretty much every description of the events say that the broadcast faded to black immediately after she slumped down onto the desk? According to Wikipedia, "Chubbuck fell forward violently and the technical director faded the broadcast rapidly to black." Why does this video cut to a "Technical Difficulties" title card instead at that point? If this video is the real deal, that would have to mean that the official descriptions of what the station sent out over the airwaves in the immediate aftermath are wrong.

[Shadow President]

It occurred to me that there IS at least one person in the world who would be able to say with near certainty whether or not the newly released video is authentic. Sally Quinn was interviewed by (I believe) New York Magazine and said she had viewed the footage MANY times while she was writing her Washington Post article that came out a few weeks after the suicide in 1974. We barely know of ANYONE who's even seen the footage once, and if she's truly watched it repeatedly she may literally be the world's foremost expert on what that footage looks like. Quinn is still a semi-active journalist and had a Religion column in the Washington Post until fairly recently. Now she seems to write columns on an irregular basis and is something of a Washington socialite/journalistic insider.

Would it be considered somehow inappropriate to contact her and just ask if she'd be willing to view the newly leaked footage? It seems like she could easily clear up whether or not this is the same footage that she watched those many times back then.

[torgotheme]

You are correct. Sally Quinn is really the only person who can verify the authenticity of this new footage. She saw it, and she is probably the most neutral person in the story who can give an unbiased opinion. Galbraith was there, but how familiar is he with the footage?

I think that the footage is fake, but the real deal probably does look extremely similar to it. Someone who saw the real thing said it "didn't look real," which could refer to how hard she hits her head on the desk. Why isn't it a close-up shot? Because this was a rinky dink local TV channel in the 70s, and not every one of their productions is going to look pro. Also, the new footage (if it is real) wasn't taped off of TV, because of the timestamp. So it would have originated from an internal source.

Honestly, if not for the "H" being different in "Newswatch," I would think this is the real deal. But I don't understand how people who would have gone through the trouble to recreate this would have missed that detail. So *that* makes me wonder!

Unless Sally Quinn provides insight, or NationSquid can provide proof of the origin of this footage, I think it's fake by default.

[pkstracy]

Doesn't pretty much every description of the events say that the broadcast faded to black immediately after she slumped down onto the desk? According to Wikipedia, "Chubbuck fell forward violently and the technical director faded the broadcast rapidly to black." Why does this video cut to a "Technical Difficulties" title card instead at that point? If this video is the real deal, that would have to mean that the official descriptions of what the station sent out over the airwaves in the immediate aftermath are wrong.

Wiki is not always accurate with their posts, basically it's people who post the articles in wiki.

[Torious]

I am VERY sceptical about this.
However, I just cannot fathom someone spending that much time, effort and, possibly, money faking the video for more subscribers or a little bit of cash from some ads. It would have been a good ploy by the makers of the new film though, to bring some attention to the whole thing.

[boilly]

Pay close attention to her left hand and the paper she sets down. Her image is superimposed over the tilted riser, and the illusion is ruined.

[pkstracy]

Fester,
It's against the rules to post links to free movie sites, because it is illegal, according to the FBI warning shown at the start of each dvd.

[fuqputin]

Just look at her face. It's not even blurry, it's an almost uniform blob of grey. You could say that the whole video is this blurry, but it isn't, the timestamp stayed quite readable, as did the "technical difficulties" sign. That's a clear indication that whoever shot this, did not want the woman's face to be too clearly visible. If it was any more detailed, everyone would be like "meh, it's not her, nice try". Concealing the actress's identity was probably a secondary reason to make her barely recognizable.

Pretty much the same goes for her voice - it's so distorted, it could belong to any woman.

[cindyt]

All of this seems dodgy.

Rule 1) Do not break any law of the United States or encourage others to do so, which you broke by posting a link to a free movie, thus defying the FBI warning and denying the production hard earned profits.

[dycaite22]

More debunking to prove that the video is, in my mind, fake, courtesy of the case file for Christine's death.

The 'two cameras' issue: People have been saying about how the fact that there were two cameras there could mean that the footage that's appeared online is from a different camera. This is physically impossible, as we know that Christine had told her co-workers that she would open with the news segment, and then segue into the interview afterwards. This would suggest that of the two cameras present in the studio, one would be on Christine at the newsdesk, and one would be on the interview area. Sure enough, the police interview with Linda 'Shay' Taylor - one of the two camerawomen - on the day of the suicide, seems to prove that to be the case (screenshots of her interview provided below). Her camera was locked onto the two guests who were there to be interviewed, and we know that the Suncoast Digest interviews took place on a separate set, as we have seen glimpses of the show from the zoning petition interview.

The 'close-up' issue: There seems to be some debate over whether or not Christine would have been framed in close-up, or if it would have been a wide shot as we see in the leaked footage. Gordon Galbraith recalls her being framed in a close-up, however there are a lot of people doubting his memory of an event from 42 1/2 years ago. However, Jean Reid - the other camerawoman, whose camera was locked onto Christine and captured her suicide - was also interviewed on the day of the event, and she states in the case file that her camera was placed on a close-up of Christine's head and shoulders, and of the board behind Christine to show any kind of news-related imagery. Again, screenshots below.

I've only attached screenshots of the pages which state these facts, as opposed to the entire interviews.

Very interesting... This goes directly against what I was told by Gordon just days ago, that there was only one camera and that the only other person there besides he and Christine was Jean Reed, though evidently, Linda Taylor was also there. Really don't know what to think now, still heavily leaning to fake though.

[johnsonmattheww]

The police report has a transcript of the show from that day. The audio from the recent video doesn't match the transcript. Whoever wrote this police report would've written the transcript verbatim.

http://m.imgur.com/pORfcsd

[MagneticElectric]

Wiki is not always accurate with their posts, basically it's people who post the articles in wiki.

While I would not take what is written on Wikipedia as gospel, not every single article should be outright dismissed as inaccurate just because it's written by "people". The Chubbuck article appears to be very well sourced. The passage quoted is sourced to an article from the Sarsota Herald Tribune written right after the event. You can even click on the citation and read the original source. It pretty much matches what has been said for years and what Sally Quinn, who apparently saw the tape numerous times, said.

As for the alleged video, I find it suspect that it magically appeared after 40+ years right around the time two movies about Christine are due to be released. The timing alone should raise a few eyebrows. That and the fact that no major news outlet has written about it or confirmed its authenticity. I think it would be fairly easy for someone to recreate the video based on the numerous written accounts. The technology is there to make the footage look old and worn and it's easy enough to recreate the sets, etc.. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that someone, perhaps a person with access to film and editing equipment, did this for the notoriety alone. People have done more for a hell of a lot less. Think of all those people who lie about having a dying child just to get attention.

[festerhead]

It was Christine's destiny...to die that day...that way. Hence all her emotional problems leading up to it.

[dycaite22]

I just received a follow-up message from Gordon and he has given me permission to reproduce it:


"Lin (the production manager , says copies were made, but there was noi second camera, every one of those copies, which he said were later destroyed did not show the angle that the fake one being circulated shows.."


That's 2 WXLT employees that have said it's fake. I think this is enough evidence for us to call this case closed to be honest.

[pkstracy]

So he says that all were destroyed, but how well does he know someone didn't sneak one how, I mean how clearly is everyone's memories from 20 or so years ago, there could have been another camera rolling, I am not dismissing it as fake or real until the maker of the video steps forward, or Sally Quinn herself says if it's real or not.

[festerhead]

The search for the truth about Christine Chubbuck will continue...and will tickle our collective minds and memories for decades to come. One more thing...I'm new to this group so I don't know anybody. Are the admins in this group in the regular world of social media? If so, how can we connect? I'd love to make some new friends.

[dycaite22]

So he says that all were destroyed, but how well does he know someone didn't sneak one how, I mean how clearly is everyone's memories from 20 or so years ago, there could have been another camera rolling, I am not dismissing it as fake or real until the maker of the video steps forward, or Sally Quinn herself says if it's real or not.

What would make you take Sally's word over Gordon or Lin's?

[Gladiolus]

Analysis.

[TheWrath of MadelineKahn]

Interesting. This same Youtube poster has made a new video 02/23/17 saying the distortion is the same on other Nation Squid videos and the Christine video is fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxqVAnWTdw8&t=0s

ETA to link to correct, more recent video by same poster.

[Cynful]

Analysis.

Interesting. This same Youtube poster has made a new video 02/23/17 saying the distortion is the same on other Nation Squid videos and the Christine video is fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Clnl3iuVg4

These are both the same videos... the guy who made this explains it all in detail, and DOES seem to think it is the real thing.

[cleanskull]

Well, that sort of got me back on the fence. Damn it. I think we should still hold off on the Group Hug for now.

[TheWrath of MadelineKahn]

These are both the same videos... the guy who made this explains it all in detail, and DOES seem to think it is the real thing.

Sorry, I meant to post the video that the Youtube poster mentions in the comments of the above video. In the new video he links to another Nation Squid video with very similar distortion, so now he thinks the Christine Chubbuck video is a very well done fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxqVAnWTdw8&t=0s

I still can't believe how little coverage this thing has gotten.

[Michael555]

Sorry, I meant to post the video that the Youtube poster mentions in the comments of the above video. In the new video he links to another Nation Squid video with very similar distortion, so now he thinks the Christine Chubbuck video is a very well done fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxqVAnWTdw8&t=0s

I still can't believe how little coverage this thing has gotten.

The possible release/leak of a forty year old suicide tape is probably only going to be of interest to a select few people I'd imagine, lol.

[Gladiolus]

Sorry, I meant to post the video that the Youtube poster mentions in the comments of the above video. In the new video he links to another Nation Squid video with very similar distortion, so now he thinks the Christine Chubbuck video is a very well done fake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxqVAnWTdw8&t=0s

I still can't believe how little coverage this thing has gotten.

Aww, bummer. I'd hoped it was real.

[dycaite22]

Aww, bummer. I'd hoped it was real.

People need to not let their want of it being real overshadow the hard evidence of it being fake.


The police report confirms the angle doesn't match (the recording of Christine was framed up on her head and shoulders according to Jean Reid; the other camera was locked into the two guests waiting to be interviewed).


On top of that, not one but two WXLT employees have also reiterated the fact that the angle is incorrect and that the video is fake.


It's fake, guys. Time to move on.

[Upset]

The possible release/leak of a forty year old suicide tape is probably only going to be of interest to a select few people I'd imagine, lol.

I don't know, Michael. 2 movies have come out about her recently, and I'm sure many still remember her as "the inspiration for the movie Network." I for one thought there would be more discussion online.

[Michael555]

I don't know, Michael. 2 movies have come out about her recently, and I'm sure many still remember her as "the inspiration for the movie Network." I for one thought there would be more discussion online.

Yeah, that's true!

And hell, this thread alone has almost a million hits (!) since 2007. That's insane.

[john*thomas]

I have to note an obvious oversight in the video calling it real. This is not making a judgement on whether it is real or not. He speaks about motives and completely misses the most obvious. There are two movies out about this to promote.

He seriously had to consider this but for some reason never touches on it.

[Upset]

People need to not let their want of it being real overshadow the hard evidence of it being fake.


The police report confirms the angle doesn't match (the recording of Christine was framed up on her head and shoulders according to Jean Reid; the other camera was locked into the two guests waiting to be interviewed).


On top of that, not one but two WXLT employees have also reiterated the fact that the angle is incorrect and that the video is fake.


It's fake, guys. Time to move on.

I'll "move on" when somebody actually makes a persuasive argument that I should.

I realize it sucks when you make an argument, and everybody in the world doesn't immediately agree with you. Are you new to the internet or something?