A number of deaths at Ariana Grande concert - Manchester, UK

[cash]

no word on the cause - some kind of explosion

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7750381.html

[atomicbettie]

What the hell? I want to know what happened!

[Mansfield67]

Reports are coming in that at least 20 are dead and many injured. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ter-Arena.html

[atomicbettie]

Here we go with the numbers game. CNN reporting 19 dead and 50+ injured. I like to see how many times the numbers change before they come up with the final count. Still no idea what happened though.

[cash]

looks like a suicide bomber

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ots-explosion/

[cleanskull]

Couldn't handle the singing.

[cash]

Lee Rigby was killed four years ago today - could be a coincidence

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/upda...of-his-murder/

[atomicbettie]

Couldn't handle the singing.

I shouldn't, but I laughed. I did have a thought like that's what you get when you go see Ariana Grande but I felt immediately horrible.

I read the article and I'm sorry to be an idiot but I don't get what the connection would be with Lee Rigby.

[cash]

Can you imagine dying because you went to see friggin Ariana Grande ???

[atomicbettie]

Can you imagine dying because you went to see friggin Ariana Grande ???

I know, right. At least make it Paul McCartney or someone like that. But Ariana Grande. I guess we're in the minority though, they said this place she was playing was the biggest place of its kind in England, holding 21,000 people, which is I think about what the Metrodome held. I don't know what "of its kind" means, because I'm sure the 02 Arena in London is larger.

I did find out about Lee Rigby. I didn't see it when reading the article if it was mentioned that they think that was terror related, but they mentioned his case on some new channel saying that they are big on dates.

So where was the suicide bomber, has anyone heard? Was he just outside the arena, waiting for the end of the concert? All I've heard is that he was not in the arena. Was he in the attached train station? I wonder if they have him on surveillance blowing himself up, I know London has more cameras than anywhere, I wonder if the rest of the UK follows suit.

[Shellie]

Can you imagine dying because you went to see friggin Ariana Grande ???

Worst thing is it was mostly kids and teenagers.

The latest is that someone walked into the foyer where all the merchandise is sold and blew himself up. They thought there was another one and the bomb squad detonated it but it was just clothes. Because a lot of kids were on there own, they were taken to a local hotel. Because the train station is shut, people with vehicles in the area are driving ppl home and the hotels are offering rooms for nothing.

[atomicbettie]

I was just typing my question of where he was while you were writing that. It is too bad that he targeted young kids, I know terrorism is about creating fear and there's nothing like making people think their kids aren't safe. I try not to think about terrorism at least not in terms of not doing things, because that's what they want. When I went to see Paul McCartney, if someone had come up decked out in a bomb to the front of Target Field when we were all waiting to get in, where there was a huge bottleneck, everyone going into the stadium in a very small area, it would have been very successful in their terms. But I'm not going to worry about that kind of thing. If its my time it'll be my time. I'm sure that doesn't make the families of the kids killed here feel any better though. That's nice that people are coming together and hotels are letting people stay for free. It's sad when things like this have to happen to make people be good to each other for a while, then a lot of people go back to being assholes. Hopefully no one takes advantage of this to get teenage girls into their car and do something horrible. I don't know why my mind makes me think things like that.

[Shellie]

I was just typing my question of where he was while you were writing that. It is too bad that he targeted young kids, I know terrorism is about creating fear and there's nothing like making people think their kids aren't safe. I try not to think about terrorism at least not in terms of not doing things, because that's what they want. When I went to see Paul McCartney, if someone had come up decked out in a bomb to the front of Target Field when we were all waiting to get in, where there was a huge bottleneck, everyone going into the stadium in a very small area, it would have been very successful in their terms. But I'm not going to worry about that kind of thing. If its my time it'll be my time. I'm sure that doesn't make the families of the kids killed here feel any better though. That's nice that people are coming together and hotels are letting people stay for free. It's sad when things like this have to happen to make people be good to each other for a while, then a lot of people go back to being assholes. Hopefully no one takes advantage of this to get teenage girls into their car and do something horrible. I don't know why my mind makes me think things like that.

Unfortunately because that's the world we are living in now but I think the cops are making sure everyone is on the up and up and if the kids are really young, they are keeping them there until someone comes for them. From what a guy said who was there, no one had any idea what was happening until you heard the boom. He was lucky because while he was sent through the air, he only had light injuries. Another guy who talked to the media said they passed at least ten bodies and it was clear they were dead and the place was a mess. At the moment, the ambulance are saying at least 19 dead and 59 injured but it's not a full tally yet. On the news, there is footage taken from a dash cam a bit away and you can hear the boom and quite a few videos came from inside the actual hall and you see everyone just running so it looks like a few injuries are because of that as well.

[atomicbettie]

That's good that they are being careful.

Death toll now being reported as 22 with 59 wounded. Children are among those killed.

[spookydel]

Current reports are that it is likely to have been a terrorist attack, the individual (they're not calling him a suicide bomber yet as they can't confirm he did it without duress - that was an interesting angle) was wearing a suicide vest filled with shrapnel. Current figures are 22 dead and 59 injured, but there are reports of many many missing children (the youngest report I've seen so far is a girl of 8) so don't be surprised if that number goes up as they properly clear the arena. Apparently, they are also saying several of the 59 have "critical injuries" so the tally will likely go up.

They have just arrested a 23-year-old man in connection - but they're playing their cards very close to their chests and not releasing much information at the moment.

The bomb was detonated inside the concourse of the arena, but not in the Arena itself, and this is probably a good thing (they do bag searches etc as you go in there) - had he been able to get into the Arena itself the toll would have been much worse.

It's horrifying. I was at a gig last night, admittedly not in a venue as big as the MEN, but I was there with a couple of thousand others and we thought nothing of going in, we had a good night and went home, for others, that didn't happen.

[artymorty]

IS have claimed responsibility .A lot of confusion happened after the boom was heard ,as it was the end of the concert and a lot of balloons were haniging about, and those furthest away just shrugged .Then was the screaming and stampede of people trying to get away ,as the announcement came over the mike saying "no need to panic ".Yeah .
One of the first people interviewed said she had been covered in faeces , like blood and skin there was crap everywhere . I expected the next hit to be in London or Liverpool .God bless everyone involved ,especially those that lost children.

[spookydel]

Sadly they've just confirmed that the 8yr old I spoke about earlier was amongst the dead. No-one deserves to go out for a night of fun and never come home, but that's especially pertinent to those who still have their lives to live!

[GEM]

And the beat goes on.................................

[Drew]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ter-Arena.html

Eight-year-old girl named as victim as ISIS claim responsibility for Manchester massacre where suicide bomber killed 22 and injured 119 with ball-bearing bomb at packed Ariana Grande concert

[pkstracy]

Sad and horrible, of course Isil is going to take credit for it, they want to instill as much fear as they can, I don't believe half of the bombings and such that goes on is their doing.

[spookydel]

Daish will take the credit where there is credit to be taken - anyone who might possibly connected with them will get them linked, I take all their "announcements" with a pinch of salt...

[artymorty]

So ,another scare today at the Arndale Shopping Centre in Manchester .People told to evacuate the building and everyone running out asap .This is the horrible aftermath about these disasters - they want to instill fear into people and they have .
Now security at the concert are being called lax , because they didn't prevent people going into the building when others were coming out .Huge numbers of people will always be a target -easy pickings .

[Shellie]

So ,another scare today at the Arndale Shopping Centre in Manchester .People told to evacuate the building and everyone running out asap .This is the horrible aftermath about these disasters - they want to instill fear into people and they have .
Now security at the concert are being called lax , because they didn't prevent people going into the building when others were coming out .Huge numbers of people will always be a target -easy pickings .

There's a theory that he had a ticket but like everything else, it's nothing but rumours at the moment. I know years ago, the only way you were allowed in is if you had a ticket. Even if you were dropping off, you couldn't get in the door so somewhere along the line, security has been down. They are saying they're gonna put extra security for Twickenham and Wembley.

I'm watching Sky New at the moment and it's just been released that 12 of the injured are under 16. The bit that really got me was a witness earlier saying they were trying to get the kids out as quick as possible but also trying to stop them from seeing the bodies because there were parts everywhere . There was also an interview with a homeless man. It was lucky he was there as he got a little girl whose legs had been blown off and tried his best to help her by keeping her talking and trying to stem the blood. She said her mum had been next to her but she didn't know where she was. I'm not sure if it's the same girl who died.

The police are reporting the bomber was a 22 year old Mancunian called Salman Abedi. They didn't want to name him in case it hampered the investigation but someone his name got out so they released it officially.

[atomicbettie]

So ,another scare today at the Arndale Shopping Centre in Manchester .People told to evacuate the building and everyone running out asap .This is the horrible aftermath about these disasters - they want to instill fear into people and they have .
Now security at the concert are being called lax , because they didn't prevent people going into the building when others were coming out .Huge numbers of people will always be a target -easy pickings .

I don't know where this guy was as far as in the building, but I mentioned the McCartney concert I went to earlier and how they started letting people in late so everyone was congregated outside the main entrance. This was just outside, we were behind no wall or fence, yes, we were on Target Field property but it was really no different than being on a sidewalk waiting to get into a store, anyone could have walked up with a backpack and blew us all up. We were packed in like sardines waiting to get in. They can only do so much with security, are we going to literally have barriers and checks up everywhere before you can even get into somewhere to wait to get into somewhere? Then that would get backed up and they could just target that congregation of people. Perfect example, last year the amusement park I have a season pass to started doing security checks to get into the park. They were doing bag searches and wanding everyone. There were five lines with at least 100 people in each line, so like 500 people packed in there waiting to go through security. But there was no security to get to those, so someone could have targeted those. Am I making sense? You can put in more and more checkpoint but there are still going to be people gathered together in various places. They could also just start smaller but simultaneous or more frequent attacks, shootings, etc... where they might not get as many people but they do one every day for X amount of time.

I know security is important, but there is more that needs to be done there is just no way to completely secure the world and we need to stop thinking that it's the government's responsibility to protect us every single time we leave our house, sorry it's just not possible. They will keep coming up with something else. I don't know what to do about it, there are no easy answers, I just think this going to continue on but there is no way to make us 100% safe from these terrorists.


Sounds like they think this was just a single crazy with no ties, even though IS has claimed responsibility. Who trusts them? There are always going to be crazies and we just have to accept it as fact of life. We can be aware, if we see someone acting strange report them, but there are so many strange people you get too many people crying wolf and being paranoid that that will lose its effect.

[Shellie]

I don't know where this guy was as far as in the building, but I mentioned the McCartney concert I went to earlier and how they started letting people in late so everyone was congregated outside the main entrance. This was just outside, we were behind no wall or fence, yes, we were on Target Field property but it was really no different than being on a sidewalk waiting to get into a store, anyone could have walked up with a backpack and blew us all up. We were packed in like sardines waiting to get in. They can only do so much with security, are we going to literally have barriers and checks up everywhere before you can even get into somewhere to wait to get into somewhere? Then that would get backed up and they could just target that congregation of people. Perfect example, last year the amusement park I have a season pass to started doing security checks to get into the park. They were doing bag searches and wanding everyone. There were five lines with at least 100 people in each line, so like 500 people packed in there waiting to go through security. But there was no security to get to those, so someone could have targeted those. Am I making sense? You can put in more and more checkpoint but there are still going to be people gathered together in various places. They could also just start smaller but simultaneous or more frequent attacks, shootings, etc... where they might not get as many people but they do one every day for X amount of time.

I know security is important, but there is more that needs to be done there is just no way to completely secure the world and we need to stop thinking that it's the government's responsibility to protect us every single time we leave our house, sorry it's just not possible. They will keep coming up with something else. I don't know what to do about it, there are no easy answers, I just think this going to continue on but there is no way to make us 100% safe from these terrorists.

They want us all to live in fear and that is the reason we can't. My 8 year old niece is going to a concert at the end of June and of course, she started panicking when she saw the news and we've spent the last few hours trying to explain why you can't stop doing things which is hard to do to a child when at times you can't understand it yourself but unfortunately that is life now.

[atomicbettie]

Wow that's gotta be tough to explain. I hope she gets it though. I agree we can't stop doing things and living in fear. I also don't think we should keep increasing security so that everything is a hassle and no one wants to go do anything any more. Do we just want armed security or the National Guard or whoever ever 10 feet on every street? Soon we'll all be being questioned for anything we're doing, that's not what we want to happen. We just have to take our world back and keep living our lives, it's all we can do.

[p00key]

Never thought my home town would be on here . I work less than a mile from the arena. Mood very somber today and lots of armed police around (rare in the UK) . But I am so proud that the people have selflessly helped others in such a shocking attack. A couple of work colleagues know some of the people who were hurt, everyone is looking after each other . The IRA set off a bomb in 1996 and it made us stronger , and this will to . They will never win .

[p00key]

The arndale incident wasn't terrorist related in the end .

[artymorty]

Hi Pookey , am not far away from you .The P.M. has announced there will army on the streets since the terror threat is now critical .I wish my son didn't live in London .It's surreal isn't it ? this being a US based forum and the news is near our home base .

[Shellie]

Never thought my home town would be on here . I work less than a mile from the arena. Mood very somber today and lots of armed police around (rare in the UK) . But I am so proud that the people have selflessly helped others in such a shocking attack. A couple of work colleagues know some of the people who were hurt, everyone is looking after each other . The IRA set off a bomb in 1996 and it made us stronger , and this will to . They will never win .

Everyone banding together to help is the one good thing to happen. I stay in Edinburgh and there were reports of some of the concert goers coming from Scotland and I saw a handful of ppl on F/Book saying they were willing to drive down to pick them up and bring them back to their home town. As for the armed cops, I can genuinely see the cops starting to carry them full time in the next few years. There was talk of it a while back but a few said there was no need. With everything that's happening and it only seem's to be getting worse, it's not that wild an idea now.

[Mansfield67]

Stay strong Manchester !

[cash]

Interesting theory re: Western values vs Islamic sexual repression

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ists-hate.html

[atomicbettie]

It is interesting. Not that I agree with them but I do agree AG is a little risqué, especially in her outfits, maybe a bit much to bring a 5 or an 8 year old to be honest. I'd say the same about Katy Perry and others, though Katy tends to go more to the silly side, and Ariana maybe the sultry side at times, I do think these do have an affect on such young girls. I can't think of anyone I listened to when I was young that was all sexy like that, when I was 5 I was still listening to what my parents listened to, and it was oldies. One of my first concerts was seeing the Monkees with my dad when I was 12. I don't remember really listening to much of my own music before 8 or 10, and then it was Adam Ant and Duran Duran but mostly KS-95 (which was the "60s 70s and today's easy listening", the oldies channel (then of course my parents records) and a little top 40 on the radio, so let's see.

[SIZE=2]1. When Doves Cry - Prince
2. What's Love Got To Do With It - Tina Turner
3. Say, Say, Say - Paul Mccartney And Michael Jackson
4. Footloose - Kenny Loggins
5. Against All Odds - Phil Collins
6. Jump - Van Halen
7. Hello - Lionel Richie
8. Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes
9. Ghostbusters - Ray Parker Jr.
10. Karma Chameleon - Culture Club
11. Missing You - John Waite
12. All Night Long - Lionel Richie
13. Let's Hear It For The Boy - Denise Williams
14. Dancing In The Dark - Bruce Springsteen
15. Girls Just Want To Have Fun - Cyndi Lauper
16. The Reflex - Duran Duran
17. Time After Time - Cyndi Lauper
18. Jump - The Pointer Sisters
19. Talking In Your Sleep - The Romantics
20. Self Control - Laura Branigan
21. Let's Go Crazy - Prince And The Revolution
22. Say It Isn't So - Daryl Hall And John Oates
23. Hold Me Now - The Thompson Twins
24. Joanna - Kool And The Gang
25. I Just Called To Say I Love You - Stevie Wonder
26. Somebody's Watching Me - Rockwell
27. Break My Stride - Matthew Wilder
28. 99 Luftballons - Nena
29. I Can Dream About You - Dan Hartman
30. The Glamorous Life - Sheila E.
31. Oh Sherry - Steve Perry
32. Stuck On You - Lionel Richie
33. I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues - Elton John
34. She Bop - Cyndi Lauper
35. Borderline - Madonna
36. Sunglasses At Night - Corey Hart
37. Eyes Without A Face - Billy Idol
38. Here Comes The Rain Again - The Eurythmics
39. Uptown Girl - Billy Joel
40. Sister Christian - Night Ranger

Maybe Cyndi Lauper dressed a little risqué but she was more wacky, and of course at 10 I didn't know what She Bop was about, I just liked the sound of it. Think of the artists on that compared to what 10 year olds at listening to now. Again, I'm not condoning bombing anyone for their values or what they are showing their children, but I do think people should think about it more. People wonder why girls have self esteem problems, look what they are comparing themselves to, and what kids in my generation were comparing themselves to. I don't remember all these problems with body image (and I was a chubby kid), I never knew anyone with anorexia, girls didn't get plastic surgery in their teens, etc... Oh and I was banned from watching/listening to Madonna because of the Borderline video because she was vandalizing things by spray painting. In fact I was banned from MTV by my dad because of it. [/SIZE]

[TheDude]

If I had a child I would let them listen to anything they wanted except for Katy Perry, she's a bit on the thick side and I'm not talking about her curvy figure.

I hope they are able to find the missing 12 girls.

[Shellie]

According to Sky News it's been confirmed it was 22 year old called Salman Abedi. He was part of a network and others have been arrested, one from Wigan but they think others are still out there including the bombmaker because it was too technical for Abedi to have made. He is British born but hasn't long came back from Libya. His younger brother and dad are still there and had reportedly been arrested too according to the BBC.

I put this in the Tom Hardy thread but he's started a fund page with proceeds going to the Red Cross. There is also two started up for a pair of homeless men who were some of the first to help. One had to take nails out of children's skin and another helped an older woman and child but sadly the woman died. One of the guys mother's didn't even known he was homeless so she hopes to be reunited with him.

[cash]

a complete failure by UK's intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-slip-in.html

[Shellie]

a complete failure by UK's intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-slip-in.html

According to Sky News his younger brother was going to do the same thing in Libya but it was averted with his arrest.

[Domino]

It is interesting. Not that I agree with them but I do agree AG is a little risqué, especially in her outfits, maybe a bit much to bring a 5 or an 8 year old to be honest. I'd say the same about Katy Perry and others, though Katy tends to go more to the silly side, and Ariana maybe the sultry side at times, I do think these do have an affect on such young girls. I can't think of anyone I listened to when I was young that was all sexy like that, when I was 5 I was still listening to what my parents listened to, and it was oldies. One of my first concerts was seeing the Monkees with my dad when I was 12. I don't remember really listening to much of my own music before 8 or 10, and then it was Adam Ant and Duran Duran but mostly KS-95 (which was the "60s 70s and today's easy listening", the oldies channel (then of course my parents records) and a little top 40 on the radio, so let's see.

[SIZE=2]1. When Doves Cry - Prince
2. What's Love Got To Do With It - Tina Turner
3. Say, Say, Say - Paul Mccartney And Michael Jackson
4. Footloose - Kenny Loggins
et al

Maybe Cyndi Lauper dressed a little risqué but she was more wacky, and of course at 10 I didn't know what She Bop was about, I just liked the sound of it. Think of the artists on that compared to what 10 year olds at listening to now. Again, I'm not condoning bombing anyone for their values or what they are showing their children, but I do think people should think about it more. People wonder why girls have self esteem problems, look what they are comparing themselves to, and what kids in my generation were comparing themselves to. I don't remember all these problems with body image (and I was a chubby kid), I never knew anyone with anorexia, girls didn't get plastic surgery in their teens, etc... Oh and I was banned from watching/listening to Madonna because of the Borderline video because she was vandalizing things by spray painting. In fact I was banned from MTV by my dad because of it. [/SIZE]

That list of songs is from my high school years. I was into Duran Duran and Culture Club. I never was worried about being sultry or sexy. I didn't know what She Bop was about until I was probably 30! I've still only ever heard that term used in that song. I wasn't into Madonna because I thought she was too "slutty".

[PurrPurr]

Rest of tour is cancelled:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rest-tour.html

[Shellie]

Rest of tour is cancelled:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rest-tour.html

According to TMZ, Live Nation is offering refunds on a lot of tours in case ppl are now scared of going to the concerts. It's just in England at the moment but it might be widened as time passes. The reason is there is chance of another attack but whether they are taking precautions or actually know something isnt mentioned. I know Take That have cancelled but as far as I'm aware many of the other performers are still going ahead with their dates.

The Telegraph has said the NY Post has got hold of the forensics report and have posted details online. They found his upper torso quite a bit away from his legs but according to the paper, he would have actually shielded those near him from the worst of the blast. There are some pictures but just the remains of the bomb and his bag.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...hester-attack/

[p00key]

I wouldn't believe anything that the Mail writes , one of the vilest papers around. I'm very proud of Manchester and how we have coped in the aftermath .

[Shellie]

I wouldn't believe anything that the Mail writes , one of the vilest papers around. I'm very proud of Manchester and how we have coped in the aftermath .

I second that about the Mail, they have been sued god knows how many times yet still do the same again and again. Their motto is who cares about the truth when we can bullshit.

[StudioJoe]

I wouldn't believe anything that the Mail writes , one of the vilest papers around. I'm very proud of Manchester and how we have coped in the aftermath .

A collage of images of kids "still missing and unaccounted for" picked up by some alleged reputable news organizations featured at least one girl who was murdered four years ago. Hello fact checkers!

More disturbing still is the bomber was known to UK intelligence for years. Some of his friends had even reported him to the antiterrorist hotline which apparently did nothing about it. Heartfelt sympathy to all the families and to the kids who just wanted to go out and have a fun time.

[p00key]

The latest is there is no evidence that anyone contacted the anti terrorist hotline . The one thing I was thinking about the other day , why after something like this happens , does that community come forward and condemn it on TV?

If a female white woman murders , then you don't get a bunch of woman going to the media to condemn it on TV ? We just accept that not everyone is like that - so why not the same for the muslim community ? Any educated person knows that there are a percentage of twats in any community.

I'm off to the One Love Manchester concert tomorrow - anyone else going ?

[artymorty]

No sadly couldn't go but I bet it'll be a great night .Enjoy yourself !

[cash]

live stream of the benefit concert

http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch...nefit-concert/

[Mansfield67]

Saw a bit of it streaming, looked like a great concert !

[fotowun]

I'm not a huge fan of Ariana Grande's music..I'm a bit old for her demo...but I gotta say I'm proud of her and the statement she's making here. She also visited a children's hospital in Manchester and visited several of the kids who are still hospitalized due to injuries. The concert raised something like 13 Million, all going to assist the victims of the attack

[cash]

55-year jail term for brother of Manchester terror attack bomber

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world...6zbiaukyL.html

[artymorty]

A bit more about this has been in the news and the other brother won't co-operate .They think he was sent a text and would like to know the contents of it .I wonder what powers they have to gain more information ?