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Thread: Station Nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island 2

  1. #1801
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    Cigar I think the middle stone is a 45 record spacer, nice...
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  2. #1802
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    great photos cigardaddio!!! haunting and solemn.

  3. #1803
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    Thanks pkstracy & lush It was peaceful there even with the main st right out front. its almost like the park muffles it with the frontage of the parking area. All the round stone seats at each group has that 45 spacer symbol in them...very cool in a way. Also sorry the angel came out sideways, it was donated to the park by the West Warwick FD. I have to commend the Parks/Recreation Dept. that they do a very nice job with upkeep. A few folks were visiting at the time, one gentleman looked like he had a FF sweater on similar to my old one from New Hampshire 911 System when I worked in the 2000"s. ( a pic to clarify )

    I have ID"ed 5 Veterans so far from the 100 - I'll keep researching some other types of info to make sure I have them all. Will post more info down the road Keep roll'in !!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Twenty years old but comfy !! Stay safe Everyone Jimmy D

  4. #1804
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    Jimmy, I took the liberty of putting an approximate footprint of the club onto your photo.

    1.) Men's Room

    2.) Ladies Room

    3.) Back Bar area

    4.) Front Door area


    They've made the Memorial Park very symmetrical. But from this POV, here's where I'd put it all. (Once, just before dark, I measured things according to some of the police measurements in the RIAG file.)




    See how The Station favored the southeast corner of the lot?

  5. #1805
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    Very interesting Billoween, I did try to picture it the day we were there but the land was changed so much for the park. I did figure the entrance was near those steps you indicated. Great job mapping it out.

    From the overhead shot, its amazing how small of a footprint it had for how many people it had inside. the kitchen area must have been tiny, I do remember using the men's room the night I saw the Donnas

    there and it being tiny single stall deal.

    Keep up the good work ! Jimmy D

  6. #1806
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    I've been reading "Just a Thought Away" by Mike Ricardi. Not so much a lot of information on what happened that night as it is about his friendship with Jim Gahan. Nevertheless, it is rough to read about what Mike had to go through to escape and how he had to deal with it.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  7. #1807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelle1966 View Post
    I've been reading "Just a Thought Away" by Mike Ricardi. Not so much a lot of information on what happened that night as it is about his friendship with Jim Gahan. Nevertheless, it is rough to read about what Mike had to go through to escape and how he had to deal with it.
    Yeah Noelle, he was generous in sharing the details of his predicament.
    Remember when he spends pages talking about how much care some gal he calls ?Jen?gave him at The Cowesett Inn? Later, he says:

    I thanked Jen for everything, and told her I would be in touch with her the following morning. Her last update was that my parents were going to meet me at the hospital. She let them know where I was heading and gave them directions to get there.
    All these years later, I have had no luck contacting her on the only number she gave me that night. She represented an angel sent to help me, if only for a short period of time. I feel obligated, hoping that one day I will be able to repay her for everything she did.?

    Well, as has been mentioned here before, she was on a second date with Steve Burgess, the Cranston firefighter and eventual bar window rescuer. He had been the bass player in the band ?Those Guys,? and since he knew the layout of The Station, he had her out the kitchen exit in no time. He stayed on to rescue people, though, and Jennifer Stocks?that?s who Jen was?went to help the wounded at the Cowesett Inn.
    In case he still doesn?t know who Jen is, I left him a message with the details. You never know....
    Last edited by billoween; 04-07-2021 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Something screwed up the original

  8. #1808
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    Pkstracy?why is the thread mucking up? I remember this happened before once.

  9. #1809
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    Billoween, I hope that they were reunited. I know that Jen's help meant a lot to him that night.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  10. #1810
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    When did it muck up, Bill? Today?
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  11. #1811
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    Yeah. Hi Pks—It turned all my punctuation screwy. Could it have anything to do with the site being shutdown briefly last week? I wrote it on my cellphone; don’t usually do that. 🤷🏻


    I feel like this happened a couple years ago, too. It’s like it had the wrong censor filter on. If you said “passport,” it would come out as “p***port. Then maybe cindyt pushed a button at headquarters and bam!—all good.

    Sorry to take this conversation public, But it’s been a little quiet of late anyway.

  12. #1812
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Yeah. Hi Pks—It turned all my punctuation screwy. Could it have anything to do with the site being shutdown briefly last week? I wrote it on my cellphone; don’t usually do that. 路


    I feel like this happened a couple years ago, too. It’s like it had the wrong censor filter on. If you said “passport,” it would come out as “p***port. Then maybe cindyt pushed a button at headquarters and bam!—all good.

    Sorry to take this conversation public, But it’s been a little quiet of late anyway.
    Likely tech problems. I didn't push any buttons at headquarters. Mister Josh takes care of the technical side of the forum. If you ever have any problems like that or something else send him a PM.

  13. #1813
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    --Some Moments from the Butler Video--

    (Using The Station Fire.mpg on G. Drive)


    (00:30)
    With the front-stage crowd having already raised their arms to salute the band or give the "devil horns" or pump their fists to the music, it never appeared to catch Great White's attention, then, when those crowd gestures changed over to pointing (behind you!) or frantic waving (Jack! Look Jack!).
    These urgent new gestures simply aren't differentiated enough from the initial ones so as to gain any serious attention from the performing Jack Russell and band. [Bustakita touched on this once.]

    (01:19) [very quick]
    P.O. Tony Bettencourt can be seen turning his head sharply left so as to talk into the radio mic clipped to the epaulet on his shoulder. And we know now the message he radioed to headquarters: "The Station's on fire!"
    In seconds, Bettencourt will be caught in the stampede out the front doors.

    (01:22)
    Some of the people exiting behind Butler--people we can see thanks to his rear-facing video camera--almost become familiar for a brief time. After all, we've been with them for a number of consecutive seconds.
    But then, as Butler clears the pinch point, we suddenly gain some brand new faces--no doubt people who've left from the main bar and have merged into the hallway flow.

    (01:49)
    Here we have Ron Barak regaining his footing after escaping the atrium by way of the lower metal panel kicked in by Butler at window #4. The camera also picks up what could be called that panel's virtual twin at window #8, seen just above the white stripe. It never gets used, though.
    The NIST report on the fire includes a diagram showing several atrium windows broken; all of these are between the (real) glass window facing the front stairs and Butler's window #4. But nothing else west of #4 was ever reported to have been breached.

    (03:42)
    When Butler suddenly pans east, we see people streaming away from the bar windows who are probably mixed with people coming around the corner from the bar and kitchen exits. In all this chaos, my eye always goes to that window screen that's a knee-high annoyance until someone yanks it away.

    (05:03)
    When Butler shouts "Anybody inside?" into the stage door exit, we see an object of some kind on the floor under the flames. Butler later tells a West Warwick detective, "I saw what I thought was a tambourine right there."

    (10:41--10:42)
    Behind these folks standing in the Nissan lot comes someone, crossing left to right on the screen, who's carrying an injured club-goer.

  14. #1814
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    Wow, Billoween - you are some detective. I would really have to see all of that to understand it. I am visual like that. I remember in Mike Ricardi's book he said that he thought that Ty Longley jumped right into the crowd. I know it was said that he made it out, but went back in to get a guitar. Is it possible that he never made it out because he followed his friend Bill Long (was the the correct first name)?
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  15. #1815
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    Thanks Billoween, I follow along with the vid and you are spot on. Great rep of the events as they unfolded. I always wondered that that officer must have gotten out just after the camera swung away cause it

    was close. Also where did he ( the officer ) go after cause I can't see him anyway on the video when the camera come back to the front. Did he try to help in any way maybe along the side of the building, maybe

    kitchen or side bar exit. Or maybe he went right out to the main road to guide in emergency vehicles and personnel. I don't remember seeing any video testimony from him like some other witnesses.

    Any thoughts ?? Jimmy D

  16. #1816
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    Yeah I remember thinking the police officer must have done really well to get out, as when Butler walks past, he's like against the wall and almost behind the door, not a good position at all, especially as the stream of people was getting heavier and heavier

  17. #1817
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    Hello everyone. It's taken me about a year but I finally made it through both Station Fire threads. I'm still making my way through some of the google drive files and I thank everyone for working so hard to put all of this information together. The statements are the hardest to get though.

    I know why I am so drawn to this tragedy - I'm in the largest city in the states and I am a live show photographer. It could have been me in there that night. I'm been to countless venues in this city and around the States and the UK. From big name musicians in large stadiums to punk bands in house basements - I've seen so many shows. I've been to dozens of shows where the fire marshals have shut it down and kicked us out. Exiting those shows you realise how slow it takes for everyone to shuffle up or down stairs and weave through hallways just to get out. Mostly, I think I've been so interested in the crowd psychology/mob psychology. Maybe that started when I watched people jumping from the Twin Towers with my own eyes. Survival takes over. I try to think what I would do in a venue where you realise its life or death in minutes or seconds. Sometimes you don't even realise it. The picture of Jeff Rader is one of the most haunting images I've even seen in my life. No one knows what was going through his mind. Did he see the crowd gathered around the door to the front hallway and decide he didn't want to get stuck in it or make it worse? Was he waiting for Becky? I don't know. How would I react if didn't see my husband coming from the darkness. If I though he wasn't going to make it. I just don't know. Some of the victims gave statements saying they knew they would't get out so they laid down and prayed for a quick end. Some fought for their lives in the front door pile up, climbing, clawing, and kicking others. How would I react? How would those around us act?

    I don't know if anyone here has taken a special attachment to someone in the club that night. For me it's Lisa Kelly. I consider her kindred. I've looked for her in the pre-show footage. I've searched the statements for a mention of her. Where had she been standing? Who was she with?? I found an article about her family filing a lawsuit on behalf of her daughter. They state she was buried under the pile at the front door. I think that was the only instance I found mention of actual detail of her being there except the simple fact that she was. If she were on the bottom then she almost made it out before others behind fell on her.

    I also wanted to share something of hers that I haven't seen mention of here. Forgive me if it was. In life, she wrote poetry and stories. Back in 2015 a story of her was published. A story she wrote for her daughter about friendship, love, and loss. How amazing she left that behind for her family and daughter. I found it on Amazon and it's called "Henry and Sara".

    Anyway, I appreciate all of the people who care on this message board. Those of you who have gone to clean the memorial of snow or leave things behind. I know we all relate in someway to what happened that night. I know we all with it didn't happen and how something like this never happens again. It's painful to know that even after The Station it has. Ghost Ship, Colectiv, Lame Horse... too many and mostly all started with pyrotechnics or even a combination of pyro and acoustic foam.

    Thanks to everyone for all of the info to educate ourselves and be proactive about safety. Look for those exit signs and fire extinguishers. Be safe, everyone.
    Last edited by GlassOnion; 04-14-2021 at 02:50 PM. Reason: spelling

  18. #1818
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    For me it's Nicholas O'Neill, and Joe as well as Gina.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  19. #1819
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    Welcome aboard, GlassOnion!

  20. #1820
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassOnion View Post
    Hello everyone. It's taken me about a year but I finally made it through both Station Fire threads. I'm still making my way through some of the google drive files and I thank everyone for working so hard to put all of this information together. The statements are the hardest to get though.

    I know why I am so drawn to this tragedy - I'm in the largest city in the states and I am a live show photographer. It could have been me in there that night. I'm been to countless venues in this city and around the States and the UK. From big name musicians in large stadiums to punk bands in house basements - I've seen so many shows. I've been to dozens of shows where the fire marshals have shut it down and kicked us out. Exiting those shows you realise how slow it takes for everyone to shuffle up or down stairs and weave through hallways just to get out. Mostly, I think I've been so interested in the crowd psychology/mob psychology. Maybe that started when I watched people jumping from the Twin Towers with my own eyes. Survival takes over. I try to think what I would do in a venue where you realise its life or death in minutes or seconds. Sometimes you don't even realise it. The picture of Jeff Rader is one of the most haunting images I've even seen in my life. No one knows what was going through his mind. Did he see the crowd gathered around the door to the front hallway and decide he didn't want to get stuck in it or make it worse? Was he waiting for Becky? I don't know. How would I react if didn't see my husband coming from the darkness. If I though he wasn't going to make it. I just don't know. Some of the victims gave statements saying they knew they would't get out so they laid down and prayed for a quick end. Some fought for their lives in the front door pile up, climbing, clawing, and kicking others. How would I react? How would those around us act?

    I don't know if anyone here has taken a special attachment to someone in the club that night. For me it's Lisa Kelly. I consider her kindred. I've looked for her in the pre-show footage. I've searched the statements for a mention of her. Where had she been standing? Who was she with?? I found an article about her family filing a lawsuit on behalf of her daughter. They state she was buried under the pile at the front door. I think that was the only instance I found mention of actual detail of her being there except the simple fact that she was. If she were on the bottom then she almost made it out before others behind fell on her.

    also wanted to share something of hers that I haven't seen mention of here. Forgive me if it was. In life, she wrote poetry and stories. Back in 2015 a story of her was published. A story she wrote for her daughter about friendship, love, and loss. How amazing she left that behind for her family and daughter. I found it on Amazon and it's called "Henry and Sara".

    Anyway, I appreciate all of the people who care on this message board. Those of you who have gone to clean the memorial of snow or leave things behind. I know we all relate in someway to what happened that night. I know we all with it didn't happen and how something like this never happens again. It's painful to know that even after The Station it has. Ghost Ship, Colectiv, Lame Horse... too many and mostly all started with pyrotechnics or even a combination of pyro and acoustic foam.

    Thanks to everyone for all of the info to educate ourselves and be proactive about safety. Look for those exit signs and fire extinguishers. Be safe, everyone.
    Hi GlassOnion, welcome! It sounds like you've seen a lot in your time... like you, I often wonder about crowd mentality and how I would react in certain situations. I don't know what I would have done if I had been in the club that night... I'd like to think I would have tried to go out the band exit and kicked Scott Vieira's ass if he told me no, but who's to say, right?

    Lisa Kelly was beautiful and left behind a sweet little girl who now writes/illustrates children's books with her grandmother (Lisa's mom). I didn't realize one of the ones they did was written by Lisa herself! That's a neat little tidbit of info.

    I personally have a soft spot for Kevin Washburn... he just seemed like such a sweet, funny guy. Oh! And thank you Billoween for that KW info a few posts back, I almost missed it! <3

    GlassOnion, have you been on the job in a venue where you felt unsafe? Any times with pyro in a small space like the Station?

    Hope everyone is well.

  21. #1821
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    Thanks Noelle. Truth is, I'd be clueless without the RIAG stuff. Like, for instance, it does contain the detailed accounts of Trip manager Bill Long, which help explain what all happened with Ty Longley that night. (He leapt off the stage WITH his guitar, and joined his good friend Long to escape together--not yet able to imagine, apparently, how quickly the fire would travel.)


    Howdy Jimmy D - Well, Bettencourt said he got pinned inside the corridor, and then forcibly ejected outside by the stampede. It sounds like he first helped some people around the atrium and then moved on to the front door railing, where he cut the cord on the right hand side of the Bud banner. (Watch Butler video @ 2:21>2:29.) He said he was trying to open up another avenue of escape.


    Next he moved over to the bar area, where he used his asp to break windows and to clear out the glass shards still lining the edges of any already busted windows. Stefanie Simpson later thanked Bettencourt (below) for pulling her from a bar window just before a section of the bar ceiling above her collapsed.

    (The front railing is still in storage in a police warehouse in Cranston. And according to its storage description, the banner remains tied to it on the left side.)


    Glass Onion - Glad you persisted in your attempts to get on here. Welcome. By the way, ID-ing people is only getting tougher. First, because it's been 18 years now since the fire. And secondly, because so many families submitted photos in 2003 that were already 5 to 10 to 15 years old.



    *Breaking News* - George Kulz, the father of Michael Kulz (D), died suddenly last Friday, April 9th, at age 77.

    I got to talk with him a few anniversaries ago, and soon after wrote a post here about it. He'd told me that he had insisted on seeing Michael's recovered body; he said he just had to, to really know for sure he'd died. He'd said he could see where the examiners had removed a small section of the jaw (with teeth) for identification purposes.

    He'd been a highly-valued member of the Station Fire Foundation, which formed soon after the fire so as to put a sort of legal hold on the land. One board member told me that George never missed a meeting or an event.

  22. #1822
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    RIP Mr. Kulz

  23. 04-16-2021, 06:51 PM

  24. #1823
    Wow Billoween you have an exceptional memory to remember me saying that!!! I am very impressed by the more new information and data compiled and added to this thread. It makes me even more closer to the situation and all of the people who were involved in one way or another. You guys rock for real yo!!

  25. #1824
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderAmander View Post
    GlassOnion, have you been on the job in a venue where you felt unsafe? Any times with pyro in a small space like the Station?

    Hope everyone is well.
    I don't remember seeing any bands using pyrotechnics in small venues. I did see a guy in this infamous hipster party band put a candle in... well... and light it. Did see someone wearing a costume with candles on it. Confetti guns many times. I *have* seen artists use pyro in some enclosed larger arenas here like Madison Square Garden but it's really toned down. Section 405.10 which is specifically for indoor use of pyrotechnics is pretty extensive. It covers everything from the device itself, the operator and material to the fallout, fallout radius, the fire area, and what kind of fallout debris is caused by the pyrotechnic. Then it covers the restrictions which are also extensive... like "Where the effect is demonstrated, there shall be no burning or glowing particles below the fifteen-foot level above the floor."

    Honestly... I think a lot of it comes down to plain and simple stupidity and greed. The Derderians seemed okay with pyro being used (both stupidity and selfish greed) and the word probably got around to the local bands who probably got excited they could try it out (ignorance). Great White was scheduled to play Don Hill's in NYC only a few days before The Station but it had been canceled due to a big snowstorm. I wonder if they would have tried using it here. An article from only days after the Station fire stated: "Owner Don Hill said pyrotechnics are banned there for two reasons – “common sense,” because they would be dangerous in such a small place, and because they would set off the club’s sprinkler systems and “douse everybody.” The Derderians knew there was no sprinkler system and they just didn't care. Even if the pyrotechnics didn't set the place on fire, they didn't even care that it would be full of the smoke that would be created by it anyway. Even a tiny little 4th of July hand-held sparkler creates that plume of sulfur-smelling smoke. They really just didn't care. They got cocky - didn't cap ticket sales, wanted a flashy show, hoped it would bring them clout and $$$$$$ for the future. Greedy, selfish, stupid. How they got off like they did, I'll never know.

    Originally Posted by billoween
    Thanks Noelle. Truth is, I'd be clueless without the RIAG stuff. Like, for instance, it does contain the detailed accounts of Trip manager Bill Long, which help explain what all happened with Ty Longley that night. (He leapt off the stage WITH his guitar, and joined his good friend Long to escape together--not yet able to imagine, apparently, how quickly the fire would travel.)
    There's that picture in the google drive folder of that lone guitar laying in the debris and it looks like it was just right there in the middle of the floor. The foot or so between Bill and Ty must have made that much of a difference.

    I see you saw I kept trying to get back on to this board! I registered years ago and tried to get on with my old handle but I couldn't get it to work. Oh well! Finally made it with this new name.

    edit: Ah poo. Hopefully two posts in a row is ok here. I am relearning the rules.
    Last edited by pkstracy; 04-22-2021 at 03:45 PM. Reason: merged back to back posts.

  26. 04-17-2021, 01:33 PM
    Reason
    Posting Back To Back

  27. #1825
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    Howdy back at ya Billoween I watched the video again concentrating on the movements of the officer and I did see what you had described . The railing with poster was a obstacle for sure to the rescue attempt

    at the front area. Using the asp was a great help to clearing those windows. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

    Update on the search - I have ID'ed 6 possible Veterans among the lost and am continuing to pour over some other info. I picked out a nice Veteran marker on a spike with a small flag holder to use at each

    stone marker when I am ready to place them on Veterans day. I'll post a picture of it if anyone would like to see what it looks like. Be safe and keep the faith Jimmy D

    Also just to remark on having a special attachment, for me it seems to be Dale Latulippe. He was a fantastic drummer and I heard he had over come some adversity in his life and was doing good. I also am a

    drummer and I seem to gravitate to his story. They all had their stories and they are unique because of journey they took thru life.

  28. #1826
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    Hi Green Onion and welcome! Since I have read many books on the fire, I am really not sure who I am drawn to. Maybe it is now Jim Gahan since I am reading Mike Ricardi's book. I am actually friends with Gina Gauvin. She was a bearded dragon breeder and I go to her for advice.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  29. #1827
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    Hi Glass Onion, posting back to back is not okay, please copy one of your quotes and hit edit on one paste that quote in and hit save and then delete the post that you made a copy of, if you can't do it let me know and I'll fix it for you.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  30. #1828
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    This was one of the last of 13 photos taken by survivor Linda Ormerod, of Providence. She took this approximately twenty minutes before the pyro began. But more about Linda Ormerod and her photos in a bit.

    Here we see survivor Brian O'Donnell, age 23, of West Warwick, standing with his back near the 8-to-10 inch step-down to the atrium level. Behind O'Donnell is the air hockey table, which will soon be covered with jackets and coats. To O'Donnell's left--under the exit sign--leans his friend Richard Cabral (D), age 37.


    Cabral (green dot), a 330-lb. precision-machine operator from Attleboro, Massachusetts, and O'Donnell (red dot) had been hanging out with their mutual friend Skott Greene (D) at Greene's "Doors of Perception" tattoo shop, only hours before, when Jack Russell had stopped in to get a new tattoo. (It was a heart on his inner hip with "SUE" inked inside it.)

    Anyway, the upshot was that O'Donnell, Cabral, and Greene were all put on the guest list by Russell for that night's show. And yes, Michael Hoogasian (D), a tattoo customer who happened to be there at the same time and who was with his wife, Sandy Hoogasian (D), were also placed on the list.

    Photo-taker Linda Ormerod, at age 52, was the oldest patron of The Station that night, unless you count the 57 year-old Budweiser representative, Don Trudeau.
    Ormerod didn't think she was going to make it out of the fire initially, but did finally get pushed out a bar window. She lost her camera containing the 13 shots, but the green carrying case she kept it in proved protection enough for it to survive the blaze. After it had been returned to her, her daughter turned the developed photos over to the police. Linda Ormerod was having trouble even leaving her house.

    Brian O'Donnell was definitely one of the heroes of the fire. He's the one who wouldn't stop kicking at the 3-foot-wide atrium window which faced the front stairs. (It was the only atrium window made of real glass--not plexiglass--and it ran north-south.) That banging got WWPO Mark Knott's attention. Knott later said, "I don't know if it was my asp [--steel baton--] that broke it or if it was the gentleman who was kicking it."

    -----That very atrium window, seen here in 10/2002. Note the reflection showing the stairs.-----

    Anyway, six or seven people immediately piled out of that sudden new opening under their own power. Then Knott--with O'Donnell working alongside--assisted in getting many more out of the atrium until it simply became too hot to continue.
    O'Donnell then began moving the injured over to The Cowesett Inn, and soon after that helped with moving fire hoses around.

  31. #1829
    Learning more abd more and more regarding this sad event. Thank you guys. These small details matter.

    Also on this video version ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWktCkulV0&has_verified=1 )
    I ran across an interesting comment on the video and wondered if it was a fellow FAD member...


    Cocka Roach
    You can actually see Matthew Pickett when Butler is making his way out the building. Pause at 3:08 and at the bottom right corner he’s wearing the white shirt with the stripe in the middle. That’s the same striped shirt seen on the Jeff Rader photo. If you look very carefully you can see Matthew make his way to the right side front of the stage.

    This was a good find!!! I never noticed it before.

  32. #1830
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    "same striped shirt"

    That commenter was misled by John Barylick's book. Matthew was wearing his taper's jacket.

  33. #1831
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    Billoween For sure it was the kicking that help the officer Knott focus in on that window and use his asp to break it / I've used my asp a few times while I was active as a LEO, mostly on car windows. I would hope the officer received a commendation for his

    actions that night, saved a lot of lives for sure. It's funny you mentioned where R. Cabral was located in that picture because that was where my friends and I were when we saw The Donnas / Distillers show a few years earlier. Kinda chilling to think he didn't

    make it even though he was right under the exit sign.

    Yesterday I passed the park on way to a delivery at the clinic and it look gorgeous in the 70 degree day, all full of green and sunny light. Keep the faith and Thanks to all on the Forum for the stream of info Jimmy D

  34. #1832
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    Billoween, how can I get a closeup of your photographs? It takes me to the PhotoBucket site. Do I need to create an account? You have some very interesting photographs. I see that same type of atrium glass on some buildings around town. It seems as if every other 4 panels has that breakable glass at the bottom. I like to look at those atrium type windows to see how it was at The Station.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  35. #1833
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    Noelle—will get back to you soon. On a trip now and don’t have great reception.
    Can you finger-expand it if you send it to an iPhone?

  36. #1834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelle1966 View Post
    Billoween, how can I get a closeup of your photographs?
    Download them. I downloaded the first one and was able to look at it fullscreen on a 20-inch monitor.

  37. #1835
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    I found an image of the newer, updated tile at the memorial now displaying the 462 headcount. If you all remember the controversy a few pages back from the Scott James book.

    Youtuber "The Beard Traveler" uploaded a lovely tour of the park in winter.
    Check it out at 8:54 to 9:00-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuGCNL6JWkw

  38. #1836
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    Hey Billoween Hope your trip was as good as mine, just got back from Sandals Grenada W.I. 4th anniversary vaca. Anyway to anyone who was asking, I just open the picture on this forum and it can expand to the size of my screen with a right click on the

    picture and drop menu. Maybe I have a different system than some others on the site. If I select " save as " from the drop down I can save picture to my files on the computer, very handy. OK gotta unpack now ! Cheers Jimmy D

  39. #1837
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    Then and Now

    bbcode image
    Ron Barak then--------------------------------------------------------------------------Same camera position now.


    "Anybody inside?!"--------------------------------Same camera position now.

  40. #1838
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    Well Billoween - Spot on, very interesting to see the angles then and now / I was trying to recall if they moved the pool tables or foo's ball tables etc. when I was there. I believe they did but not to the extreme of pushing them all the way to the windows.

    I do happen to recall the lights in the whole place flickering when the bands really pumped on the volume ! The electrical in the old shack was probably 50 years old at least and quite abused ! I think I have thoroughly research and have 5 Veterans among

    the 100. I have markers put aside for them to place on Veterans Day, I'm very happy we will be able to mark and recognize them for their service to Country. Be well Stay safe Jimmy D

  41. #1839
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    Jimmydaddio - Hey, thank you, and congrats on finding the 5 veterans. Did you ever see this image of one of the pool tables? The 3 tables were all bar size, which means 3.5 feet x 7 feet, and they were pushed next to the atrium windows starting in the northwest corner. They ended right about where Barak came out the window, i.e. at the panel Butler kicks out.




    Rodentlady - Thanks for the "Bearded Traveler" tour of The Memorial. I may use some screen shots from it for future referencing.

    Carpenter - How you doing? I'm having trouble finding out Becky Shaw's birthdate. Do you know it?

    Also......I'm missing the birthdates of Victor Stark (it's sometime in early March) and Dennis Smith. Anybody?

  42. #1840
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    Bill, here's what I found on a site called sortedbyname.com:

    "SHAW, REBECCA E. was born 5 March 1978, received Social Security number 2**-5*-****(indicating Pennsylvania) and, Death Master File says, died 21 February 2003
    Source: Death Master File (public domain)."

    "STARK, VICTOR was born 2 March 1963, received Social Security number 0**-5*-**** (indicating Massachusetts) and, Death Master File says, died 21 February 2003
    Source: Death Master File (public domain)."

  43. #1841
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    --Some moments from the Butler pre-show video--

    (Using "Inside the Station Nightclub Fire 22003" on G.Drive)


    (10:21--17:00) (7 seconds)
    Jeff Martin (D), 33, a lawyer with the John Hancock Insurance Company, is seen here just behind the guy I believe to be Andrew Hoban (D) (but who I know some think is Scotty Dunbar).
    Anyway, every time I see Martin making these faces and gestures I'm reminded of the fact that his father was the internationally-known mime, Kenyon Martin. Kenyon studied under Marcel Marceau in Paris, and later became the artistic director of The National Mime Theater. So a little of Dad, the mime, may have rubbed off on Jeff, the lawyer.

    Kenyon Martin back in the day.



    (01:34:22--01:46:00) (12 seconds)
    Here, over Cathy Sagesta's head, we can see the big lit-up clock over the hallway to the restrooms. Perhaps it was this prominent display of the time that enabled so many survivors to cite very specific times later on in their witness statements.


    (01:41:00--01:43:00) (2 seconds)
    Survivor Tim Rossano, 38, of Warwick, is probably most notable for his bright-red winter jacket and his deep stare into the camera following his escape from the center bar-window. (@09:03:00) But, in this pre-show moment, he perfectly demonstrates the step up to the elevated area. He just passes the clock and then--step--his head rises a foot.


    (01:50:00--01:53:20) (3 seconds)
    When I see survivor-turned-major-rescuer Shamus Horan making gestures to the camera here, I'm in awe just thinking about the six-to-nine souls this Coventry plumber will soon be saving from the bar windows with these very hands.
    Later, Horan detailed his injuries in his witness statement:
    "I cut my left arm pretty badly and have many other cuts on my hands and both arms and a few small burns. My clothes were soaked with blood and vomit.....[but] the worst wounds are what we saw and went through."


    (02:45:00) (a moment)
    Bridget Sanetti (D) is glimpsed standing in the main bar with the bar door's exit-sign floating right above her head. If only she hadn't left this spot to go and use the ladies room--along with her friend Katie O'Donnell (D)--right when she did.



    (02:46:23) (a moment)
    A quick shot of Rick Sanetti, with his crew, at the main bar. It's the only glimpse of him I know of, although, of course, it's his voice later in the Butler video--when all hope is lost--that still haunts.
    Anyway, Sanetti is turned away somewhat, and is wearing a jersey (Nautica) that's white with gray sleeves. He'll be taking it off at the bottom of the front ramp in about 15 minutes, and using it to smother the flames engulfing Kathy Sullivan's head.


    (04:22:00--04:25:00) (a moment)
    In the final moment we see of ticket-taker Andrea Mancini (D), she gives Dave Fravala a belated hand-stamp so he can safely duck out of the club with friends Brian Loftus and Jessica Studley. They will cross to The Cowesett Inn's parking lot and smoke half the joint given to Fravala by Tommy Barnett (D). That gift may very well have saved their lives.
    (Since Andrea let the club-regular Fravala into the show for free, he's probably getting stamped now just to ensure his easy re-entry into The Station later--like in case Andrea had had to step away briefly or something.)



    Here's Dave, later, yelling out for his nephew, Brandon Fravala.
    Brandon never heard him, in all the chaos. And, of course, Brandon, if you remember, was gripping the bottom rung of the center of the railing. He was there for probably 4-5 minutes, tops. And to this day he swears it felt like an hour. Eighteen years after the fire, he says, “I still can’t believe I wasn’t stuck for an hour.”

  44. #1842
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    Thanks for the birthdates, Rodentlady. I’d never heard of those Master Death Files before. Then, just days after you mentioned them here, The New York Times brought them up in a piece. (6-3-21) Funny how that works.

  45. #1843
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    Thank you for all of the knowledge you bring to us, billoween! I don't type a response to every post, but I sure do see them.

    Years ago, I had a site bookmarked where someone had uploaded JUST the Social Security Death Index Master File. It was either taken down or hidden behind a paywall.

  46. #1844
    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    (02:46:23) (a moment)
    A quick shot of Rick Sanetti, with his crew, at the main bar. It's the only glimpse of him I know of
    Do you know if perhaps the individual around the 5:01 timestamp is Rick Sanetti? Looks like a similar shirt and facial hair style, but wearing a red baseball cap. This is while Brian Butler is following the employee with the pack of beer through the crowd.

  47. #1845
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    Thanks Billoween I'm glad I could find the 5 Veterans out of the 100 Must appreciate yours and other that helped also When I was at the Donnas / Distlers show I did see there were people sitting those pool tables . Never saw that photo of after thought.

    I was trying to remember that clock if it was there when I was there but I can't recall . Amazing that a gift of half joint probably saved 3 lives, among other small things people did at the right time to save them ( go get food or maybe forgot something in their

    car. ) Fate plays a big part in some of these survivors life's for sure . Also the reverse for some who decide to do something that seals their fate for the worst ( go to the bath room or venture deeper in the club for a better look. )

    One thing I found strange from reading in this forum, why are some of the victims dated as death on the 21st ? Thanks for all the incredible info Jimmy D

  48. #1846
    Ok so I went into the rabbit hole on YouTube and there was a nightclub fire that happened in 2009 mentioned here before by me called Zantika club. I cannot remember the country it happened in but I stumbled across a video I thought I had seen before but I'm going to link it here. Fast forward to 31:39 and play from there. I've heard all about this incident but never saw such a clear and concise video of just what happened and it made me think of The Station.
    While this is in a different language, you don't have to understand that language to understand what happened, you can see it. And sadly it's probably what the guests at the Station saw.
    In Zantika, 66 people lost their lives.
    Fireworks/pyrotechnics were to blame.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gtK6TWWl5MQ&t=1901s

    And just five years ago Colectiv...Goodbye to Gravity almost the whole band gone I believe

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KSm7Y0...ature=youtu.be

    This shows what it was probably like inside The Station too. It is interesting yet sad how these events were immortalized on camera forever. I pray for all involved in these tragedies daily...
    Last edited by bustakita; 07-15-2021 at 10:17 PM.

  49. #1847
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    Quote Originally Posted by bustakita View Post
    Ok so I went into the rabbit hole on YouTube and there was a nightclub fire that happened in 2009 mentioned here before by me called Zantika club. I cannot remember the country it happened in but I stumbled across a video I thought I had seen before but I'm going to link it here. Fast forward to 31:39 and play from there. I've heard all about this incident but never saw such a clear and concise video of just what happened and it made me think of The Station.
    While this is in a different language, you don't have to understand that language to understand what happened, you can see it. And sadly it's probably what the guests at the Station saw.
    In Zantika, 66 people lost their lives.
    Fireworks/pyrotechnics were to blame.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gtK6TWWl5MQ&t=1901s

    And just five years ago Colectiv...Goodbye to Gravity almost the whole band gone I believe

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KSm7Y0...ature=youtu.be

    This shows what it was probably like inside the astation too. It is interesting yet sad how these events were immortalized on camera forever. I pray for all involved in these tragedies daily...
    Wow that really shows what the 'Black Rain' may have looked like. Absolutely horrifying.

    Also Bill I dread to think of the horrors seen under that part of the roof and in and around the pool tables.

  50. #1848
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    Post

    Hello! First post, standard tragedy aficionado. I've no relation to this terrible event. I hoped I might be able to contribute in a small way.

    First, y'all ever fiddle with the Wayback Machine? I'm still going through the first thread, but here's some cached versions of the dead links in there:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130131...onfirememorial MySpace: Station Fire Memorial. Pulled from 2013.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180130...oundation.org/ StationFireMemorialFoundation.org. Pulled from 2018.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20080321...3/stationfire/ ProJo Station Fire coverage. Pulled from 2008.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20090107.../day7/day7.htm ProJo Survivor Coverage. Pulled from 2009.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20040216...onfire/gauvin/ ProJo Survivor Coverage. Pulled from 2004.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130525...Nk&gl=US&hl=en Pre-Fire Video (already on the Drive). Pulled from 2013.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150413.../nightclub.htm INFERNO HORROR at THE FIRE STATION by Michael Hammerschlag. Pulled from 2015.

    As I said, I'm still going through the first thread. Y'all know the big fish I'm gunning for: The clearer version of the Brian Butler footage. If it existed on the internet once, then it has to still be here somewhere.

    ---

    Other little bits:

    1. I am certain this must come up in the old thread and in other accounts, but just so I say it to SOMEBODY: Y'all notice Tracy King in the VERY beginning of the Brian Butler video? Literally seconds 0:02 - 0:06. He's right in front of Brian. He turns around. Huge dude; right next to one of the first people who recognized what was going on; knew every exit -- there is absolutely no way that Tracy was still in that building by accident. Echoing earlier sentiments, I'm convinced that he's the mystery savior in the smoke, chucking people out windows.

    2. Brian Butler video (I'm referencing a Youtube copy, so I apologize if my timestamps are off!), for the transcript if it can be verified. Before I say this, though, trigger warning, because I am transcribing the screams from a victim and it's not comforting information (Tip gathered from Youtube comments):
    I think both times Brian swears ("damn" and "Jesus Christ!"), it's because he heard a victim inside of the building and he is viscerally reacting.
    5:31, female victim: "Oh my God!"
    5:33, female victim: [garbled] "--Burning alive!"
    5:34, female victim: "I'm burning alive!"
    5:37, female victim: "HELP ME!"
    5:39, female victim: "Help me!"
    5:39, Brian: "Jesus Christ!"
    You can hear her screaming as he walks off, and the man around the corner then tells him with his voice breaking that those guys are on fire.

    3. I had to sue somebody once. During that process, I was struck in court by how people forecast what they're going to be lying about in anticipation of the question. They bring it up before you can; it's like they know they gotta lie about this part, so they want you to get there as quickly as possible.

    With that in mind, when they interview Scott Vieira for a witness statement -- you know, Scott. V., the absolute jerk? -- before they can bring up the topic of him blocking the door, he refutes it. Kevin Beese and Paul Vanner behave similarly. Beese starts sputtering on about "no pyro." I'm not surprised that the cops ended up staging a tapped phone call with him. Dude's interviews were all over the place. Vanner kind of strikes me as Beese Jr..

    Johnny Arpin was interesting. He was friends with those three, yet from his interview, I don't feel dishonesty. Everything that he said that can be verified was verified. When he's wrong, he's clear that he's taking a stab at the information, not stating it as fact. Goes to show you can't judge a person by the company they keep.

    4. Was the other Vieira in the club (Jennifer) related to Scott or Kelly?! How small is this town?! I know there was a lot of "two degrees of separation," but that confused the daylights out of me.

    ---

    That's all for now. I'm sure I'll have more later. Apologies for the length -- part of why I posted now, before I have more to add.

  51. #1849
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    Nov 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzybee View Post
    Hello! First post, standard tragedy aficionado. I've no relation to this terrible event. I hoped I might be able to contribute in a small way.

    First, y'all ever fiddle with the Wayback Machine? I'm still going through the first thread, but here's some cached versions of the dead links in there:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130131...onfirememorial MySpace: Station Fire Memorial. Pulled from 2013.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180130...oundation.org/ StationFireMemorialFoundation.org. Pulled from 2018.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20080321...3/stationfire/ ProJo Station Fire coverage. Pulled from 2008.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20090107.../day7/day7.htm ProJo Survivor Coverage. Pulled from 2009.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20040216...onfire/gauvin/ ProJo Survivor Coverage. Pulled from 2004.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130525...Nk&gl=US&hl=en Pre-Fire Video (already on the Drive). Pulled from 2013.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20150413.../nightclub.htm INFERNO HORROR at THE FIRE STATION by Michael Hammerschlag. Pulled from 2015.

    As I said, I'm still going through the first thread. Y'all know the big fish I'm gunning for: The clearer version of the Brian Butler footage. If it existed on the internet once, then it has to still be here somewhere.

    ---

    Other little bits:

    1. I am certain this must come up in the old thread and in other accounts, but just so I say it to SOMEBODY: Y'all notice Tracy King in the VERY beginning of the Brian Butler video? Literally seconds 0:02 - 0:06. He's right in front of Brian. He turns around. Huge dude; right next to one of the first people who recognized what was going on; knew every exit -- there is absolutely no way that Tracy was still in that building by accident. Echoing earlier sentiments, I'm convinced that he's the mystery savior in the smoke, chucking people out windows.

    2. Brian Butler video (I'm referencing a Youtube copy, so I apologize if my timestamps are off!), for the transcript if it can be verified. Before I say this, though, trigger warning, because I am transcribing the screams from a victim and it's not comforting information (Tip gathered from Youtube comments):
    I think both times Brian swears ("damn" and "Jesus Christ!"), it's because he heard a victim inside of the building and he is viscerally reacting.
    5:31, female victim: "Oh my God!"
    5:33, female victim: [garbled] "--Burning alive!"
    5:34, female victim: "I'm burning alive!"
    5:37, female victim: "HELP ME!"
    5:39, female victim: "Help me!"
    5:39, Brian: "Jesus Christ!"
    You can hear her screaming as he walks off, and the man around the corner then tells him with his voice breaking that those guys are on fire.

    3. I had to sue somebody once. During that process, I was struck in court by how people forecast what they're going to be lying about in anticipation of the question. They bring it up before you can; it's like they know they gotta lie about this part, so they want you to get there as quickly as possible.

    With that in mind, when they interview Scott Vieira for a witness statement -- you know, Scott. V., the absolute jerk? -- before they can bring up the topic of him blocking the door, he refutes it. Kevin Beese and Paul Vanner behave similarly. Beese starts sputtering on about "no pyro." I'm not surprised that the cops ended up staging a tapped phone call with him. Dude's interviews were all over the place. Vanner kind of strikes me as Beese Jr..

    Johnny Arpin was interesting. He was friends with those three, yet from his interview, I don't feel dishonesty. Everything that he said that can be verified was verified. When he's wrong, he's clear that he's taking a stab at the information, not stating it as fact. Goes to show you can't judge a person by the company they keep.

    4. Was the other Vieira in the club (Jennifer) related to Scott or Kelly?! How small is this town?! I know there was a lot of "two degrees of separation," but that confused the daylights out of me.

    ---

    That's all for now. I'm sure I'll have more later. Apologies for the length -- part of why I posted now, before I have more to add.
    Hi Fuzzybee and welcome!

    I did a very similar thing in that I trawled the net for links to station fire videos that I put into the wayback machine. Eventually I found one that was clearer than the rest, saved it and polished it using AI repair software. That video is on my dropbox here - https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dfghdgu0i...Q%202.mp4?dl=0 I made a mistake with the edit so it's not perfect and i haven't had chance to redo it yet. If you download the video and use VLC media player and invert colours/polarize it sometimes shows other things clearer - such as the band onstage etc. I will endeavour to redo the whole video though!

    The hunt goes on. There is a rumour of a HQ/TV quality version of the video posted to Youtube once, but i've never seen that or found the link. I also tried to use a AI repair on the full/preshow videos, but they are SO poor it doesn't really improve it all that much. I will keep trying though. Even if we just had the original file it would be helpful - most of the degradation is from a download of an upload of a download of a upload etc which each time has lead to more degradation.

  52. #1850
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    Subarctican - I don't believe that the guy at 5:01 is Sanetti, but it sure is an excellent shot--when precisely paused--of a specific patron I've never really taken in before. So thanks.

    Jimmy D - Howdy. I don't believe people were declared dead until they'd been officially "processed." And many victims were not processed until after midnight--which, of course, made it the 21st.

    Bustakita - Damn. That was new footage to me. Do you think that was taken from some fixed security camera? Nice find. Yeah, that fire happened on 1-1-09 in Bangkok, Thailand. Seeing that burned survivor getting interviewed...heart-wrenching.

    JXG - Your version is quite good; thanks for reposting the link. I think we should get this saved on the Google Drive page with the other videos.

    Fuzzybee - Welcome to you, and thanks for pollinating us with your Way Back Machine links.
    "Vieira" is a pretty common name in RI. We don't know all that much about survivor Jennifer Vieira. She did work with survivor Mike Vargas at a local GNC store. They met each other at The Station on the 20th, and during the rush to get out, Vargas helped her back up on her feet several times. Still, she was seriously burned before getting pulled out the front door by a fireman. And if it was a fireman who yanked you out, it was definitely late in the game.

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