Originally Posted by
krystleann
Sorry, my original reply was too long, so here is my second part:
Heroes:
Regarding Sanetti's account... There was talk on the thread about Tracy King and how someone had written on facebook how he was suspected to be one of the bouncers who had denied access through the stage door.. Richard Sanetti came to his Tracy's defense and wrote about him dying in his arms and he was a hero... Well I didn't see it again talked about much since some of you were questioning it... I do see in Sanetti's witness statement about a big guy who at first appeared dead/not able to fit through the window.. Richard described a young man standing with him outside trying to call people to the windows (I believe front bar windows is where they were, since they
exited the front bar?) and mentioned how the man was thought to be a goner but him and the young man were able to get the big guy out of there and mentioned more about him passing away shortly after when he was carrying him in his arms (paraphrasing here of course)... I feel that was Tracy, and some how he had learned after by the investigators who it was and heard from other witnesses I suppose that he was one of the people helping toss people out the windows.
So many people account to have being "thrown or tossed" out the windows...You all had also mentioned in the first thread about there possibly being some sort of blast which had the power of blowing people away, as if they were tossed.. This does seem possible to me after reading so many accounts.. :
Colleen McNamara mentions smoke engulfed her and husband and somehow "we were pushed onto the ground outside" seems to indicate such an occurrence.
But I do feel there were still some heroes who also did their part in throwing survivors out doors/windows.. They along with those pulling people out of the front door are incredibly courageous heroes- to the fullest extent and they should be honored as such.
Thomas Barnett was said to die saving others..I keep seeing reference to Matthew Darby's saving of twelve people, heard mention of Tracy King's, but haven't read yet the specifics and who actually calls them out as heroes (what they saw).. wondering if I will come across them in the 1/3 I have left to go in the witness accounts.
Regarding Darby- twelve seems like an incredible amount of people to be able to save in the few minutes he had.. Wondering what had happened!
Random observations/questions:
The debate about Jeff Rader being seen outside of the club, indicating he went back inside... who established this as fact ? I am wondering as others have here if it was a case of mistaken identity, doesn't seem he would have time to have accomplished it. I do wonder where Becky was when the fire first started, was she not with the rest of their group? And where she was found, was it anywhere near him?
I remember hearing on the thread about a victim who was in a wheelchair? IIRC, which I could very well be mistaken, wasn't it thought to be John Longiaru? I haven't encountered, or if I have I must've missed, any witness accounts relating to him yet, so wondering where those who mentioned him learned he was in a wheelchair?
Todd King in his statements says that Steve Mancini was literally pushing people back into the club as he made his way to find his wife Andrea by the ticket booth.. I wonder what had happened with her..she didn't get a chance to get out of the booth I suppose with the patrons funneling in.. That part of the doorway where the booth was must've been the worst during evacuation since it narrowed in right at her booth.... Must've been an awful scene. Another witness I recall reading mentioned he last saw her with a fire extinguisher over her head.. I wonder if she was getting that for Steve who then went towards the stage with it? Witnesses said a man with black long hair was scene running towards stage with extinguisher, was that Paul V or Steve?
I recall a few wondering about the seven victims documented to be outside the atrium windows.. Raymond Lemoi in his account says that the seven in front of atrium windows were indeed excavated from the front doorway in the very beginning of rescue.
...So although later on it's been documented and well known that there were 31 dead found in the door/hallway area, it was originally 38. I am not sure or can offer much proof at the moment but from what I've been feeling reading up on accounts it does seem that many of the very burned/those who suffered and died after that night had been rescued from that main entrance as well.
David McGinn- Strange witness statements...
Mentions Rick Sanetti being hysterical/badly burned.. Sad account. He also says Jack Russell said "either his sound guy or his tech guy was burned to a crisp".. I am guessing Jack's "heroism" relates to his helping his own.. And he was witnessed expressing concern for his missing guitarist, Ty.. But what about concern for the hundreds of patrons/fans of his, many of them personally invited by him?
Frances McMurray- says boyfriend was sick, so he stayed home while she went to show alone... one of few reported to attend the show alone. Maybe I'm overthinking this one but I thought it to be a bit strange.. Maybe I sound too conservative wondering such a thing, but unless she was a diehard fan, as a woman it's a bit weird going alone?.. Maybe she was there with another man?
John Malloy-His witness statement in the google docs was a report for missing persons .. I felt it strange that a few of the deceased aren't already reported as missing by family when the report was made 24 hours later... including Kelly Vieira being one not included as missing. Maybe it's simply because there was so much going on in those first hours that all information wasn't collected by that time, I don't know but it's worth looking at again closer when I have time. Also the people who survived but were on that missing person list would give good indication as to survivors who were so badly burned that they weren't identified as survivors yet.
I pretty much hold the same people accountable that I've been reading everyone else on here discuss.
Regarding Jeff D:
Julie M (waitress) says she gave Jeff the register in the FRONT of the building.. The register was later found buried in snow in the back of the station. So he went all the way to the back to place it into snow? While others are putting their lives in danger/sacrificing themselves to save others? She said he was "gone for not even a min".. That is long enough to make a difference during the fire. Considering on the video we also see him pacing around, taking off the banner from the rail outside the front door.. What else did he accomplish?
Again, regarding witness statements, for those of you who haven't noticed, under "Elizabeth Laposata" are the obits for the victims, to use as a resource.
I read a few different investigators ask witnesses about foam found on walls outside restrooms.. I am guessing the foam over in that section of the building added to the intensity of the fire in that section of the station.
Not sure if I missed reading but haven't seen much talk on the thread about this strange coincidence: Someone was at the club just that day talking to the owners and said they had plans in the works to buy the station! I wish I wrote down who it was that was on the verge of buying it, but it was somewhere in the middle of the alphabet under witness statements.
The "before the fire" video that we all have such great interest in.. It's been wondered by some on here when the filming was, if it was throughout the evening.. I read in a witness account (again sorry wish I wrote down who had said) that mentioned Butler arrived at the station at 10:30.. So all of the footage we see is presumed to be a lot closer in time to the time the tragedy began.
I read in witness accounts from 10:30 to the start of GW that music from a CD or radio played over speakers, beer/radio promos were off and on (Budweiser's and Dr. Metal, etc..) Someone mentioned a song playing in background during the before video that had very eerily haunting lyrics relating to the tragedy. That had sent chills up my spine now knowing how close to the fire this was in time.
Again, so sorry to have such a long first post with so much information/material/questions coming at you all, it's just been building up!
Lastly, kudos to all of you spending the time and effort in trying to get a better understanding.. It's not easy.
---> PS: Thank you for the guidance regarding my posts, Cindy