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Thread: Station Nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island 2

  1. #1851
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    [QUOTE=billoween;1565054]

    Jimmy D - Howdy. I don't believe people were declared dead until they'd been officially "processed." And many victims were not processed until after midnight--which, of course, made it the 21st.

    Thank Billoween That makes sense now that I figure they had to process so many in the early morning 21st / I heard they had Providence & State Police come in to do the recovery of bodies and evidence

    Welcome FuzzyB Thanks for all that new perspective on some of those story lines

    Amazing team on this forum with everyone pitching ideas and ID's etc. Cheers Jimmy D

  2. #1852
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    [QUOTE=cigardaddio smoke;1565078]
    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post

    Jimmy D - Howdy. I don't believe people were declared dead until they'd been officially "processed." And many victims were not processed until after midnight--which, of course, made it the 21st.

    Thank Billoween That makes sense now that I figure they had to process so many in the early morning 21st / I heard they had Providence & State Police come in to do the recovery of bodies and evidence

    Welcome FuzzyB Thanks for all that new perspective on some of those story lines

    Amazing team on this forum with everyone pitching ideas and ID's etc. Cheers Jimmy D
    Hi Jimmy yeah they also got an archaeological team in to excavate the ashy interior mm by mm. All written up very well in Richard Gould's book 'disaster archaeology'

  3. #1853
    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    "same striped shirt"

    That commenter was misled by John Barylick's book. Matthew was wearing his taper's jacket.
    That's for correcting that. I assumed it was Joe Cristina based on all research done here. Wrong identification, but a good spot on appearance of someone who we have become "familiar" with.


    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Subarctican - I don't believe that the guy at 5:01 is Sanetti, but it sure is an excellent shot--when precisely paused--of a specific patron I've never really taken in before. So thanks.

    Jimmy D - Howdy. I don't believe people were declared dead until they'd been officially "processed." And many victims were not processed until after midnight--which, of course, made it the 21st.

    Bustakita - Damn. That was new footage to me. Do you think that was taken from some fixed security camera? Nice find. Yeah, that fire happened on 1-1-09 in Bangkok, Thailand. Seeing that burned survivor getting interviewed...heart-wrenching.

    JXG - Your version is quite good; thanks for reposting the link. I think we should get this saved on the Google Drive page with the other videos.

    Fuzzybee - Welcome to you, and thanks for pollinating us with your Way Back Machine links.
    "Vieira" is a pretty common name in RI. We don't know all that much about survivor Jennifer Vieira. She did work with survivor Mike Vargas at a local GNC store. They met each other at The Station on the 20th, and during the rush to get out, Vargas helped her back up on her feet several times. Still, she was seriously burned before getting pulled out the front door by a fireman. And if it was a fireman who yanked you out, it was definitely late in the game.

    I have no idea how I stumbled across it I was looking for something else and decided to watch full thing and I discovered if and was in complete shock and awe.

  4. #1854
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    I found a talk that John Barylick did on the Station on youtube. Disappointed that it did cut off before it was finished, but it was a good talk. I have always had trouble finding Erin Pucino in the crowd, but John Barylick pointed her out.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  5. #1855
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    This tour of the memorial park was uploaded three years ago in June of '18: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwy3iYnY8E
    At 3:38, youtuber "How We Do Disney" shows that the "1 Minute Before" tile has already been replaced with the 462 headcount. The park opened in '17, so the mistaken tile with 355 was up for less than a year! Awfully convenient for author Scott James to leave THAT fact out of his book which was not released until 2020.

    Wow, there were five more mistakes at the park back then: Robert Reisner at 27:49, Derek Johnson at 28:24, Skott Greene at 29:00, Rachael Florio-DePietro at 29:10, Thomas Fleming at 29:11 and Richard Cabral at 29:36 all have the same birthdate of March 29th, 1970!!!!! Slow down the playback to 25% to get a good look. I think that is only Thomas's birthday.

    Near the end (when sitting in his car) Mike shares that Steve Mancini's mother gave him one of Steve's guitars.

  6. #1856
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    Thanks for the replies! Interesting RE the name being common. I was reading today (ProJo's Forged By Fire thing) that Dennis Larocque, one of the fire marshals involved, was a cousin of a family whose home burned down in a famous house fire in 1995. Crazy. Also, that dropbox copy is the clearest I've seen so far. Admittedly, my vision is bad enough that I can't tell if it's different from the copy on the Drive.

    Reading Killer Show, I think I might have been wrong about Paul Arpin. I didn't realize his testimony was in conflict with survivor testimony.

    I'm reading the medical examiner, Dr. Elizabeth LaPosata's, grand jury testimony right now. They're anonymous, but I came across a few that were morbidly noteworthy:

    1. Matthew Pickett: "Died of inhalation of products of combustion and super-heated oxygen-depleted atmosphere with other findings of thermal injury to body surface. We identified him through dental comparison and possessions. He was known to carry with him a Sony Walkman which was present on the body."

    2. I think this might be the person who was found solo on the dance floor based on how this victim is described: "Died of inhalation of super-heated oxygen-depleted atmosphere and thermal burns of body surface which is a little different than the other deaths. This gentleman died because he was in an area where the fire was rapidly and completely burning, so he did not have carbon monoxide or the products of combustion. He was in the area of fire that the fire was burning so completely that there was no oxygen left in the atmosphere and there were no real products of combustion because there was complete combustion. So he -- we put that his death was only due to super-heated oxygen-depleted atmosphere and thermal burns of body. We identified him by dental records and he resembled his photo provided."

    3. A few people did have compressive asphyxiation as a cause of death. One person's death was solely compressive asphyxiation -- no burns, no inhalation. "She died from asphyxia due to restriction of respiration by compression. She had no component of burning, no component of inhalation injuries. She was merely compressed and -- and couldn't breathe. We identified her by her dental records, her physical build, a photo provided by the family and by distinctive tattoos." Another, "Died of restriction of respiration due to compression with minor contribution of inhalation of products of combustion. We identified him by his resemblance with his photo I.D., by his tattoos and personal effects with his name on it."

    4. A line on one person's was really sad: "We identified him by his personal effects. He had a cell phone which automatically dialed his mother's number which we were able to locate."

    5. Victim who died in hospital: "After surviving in the hospital for awhile, [Redacted] died of the infections and electrolyte problems due to his thermal injuries and respiratory difficulties resulting from the smoke inhalation."

    6. Cyanide and body locations: "Out of the 96 deceased, 20 of them had significant levels of cyanide so that means that they were inhaling the atmosphere which contained hydrogen cyanide which is the product of burning polyurethane."

    "We had a general idea of where most of the bodies were.. They weren't pinpointed as a coordinate as you would do like in a homicide scene."

    Juror: "Were the 20 that showed evidence of cyanide in their lungs, were they pinpointed or do you have any idea of where they were?"
    Witness: "They -- they roughly correlated with being in the stage and like dance floor area. They were not the ones in the front door area."

  7. #1857
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzybee View Post
    4. A line on one person's was really sad: "We identified him by his personal effects. He had a cell phone which automatically dialed his mother's number which we were able to locate."

    i feel like i've heard this story before and that it was nicholas o'neill. have you ever seen the documentary of his life? it's called "41" and i have to say after watching that, i started seeing the number 41 all over the place. it was quite strange.

    trailer for the movie at this link https://theindependentcritic.com/41

    It all began shortly after the fire and, in fact, even before Nicky's body had been found when his father received a phone call from his son's cell phone. It was in that moment that his father knew that his son's body would be found later that day, and he believed that, perhaps, the cell phone ringing was merely rescuers having found the phone and checking it for identifiers



  8. #1858
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    So, it turns out.....Dr. Richard A. Gould, the forensic archaeologist who led the recovery team which combed the Station Nightclub site for 11 days (starting 2-27), died of cancer in March of 2020.

    Gould, a renowned Brown University Professor of Anthropology for 28 years, was 81 and living in Honolulu with his wife, Elizabeth.

    Like a faithful anthropologist, he donated his body to the University of Hawaii's medical school.

    image share

    Back in 2003, after the Station fire, Gould led a Brown University team of 23 volunteers in the recovery of any personal effects for their eventual return to the victim's families. Human remains would go to the RI State Medical Examiner.

    In the days before he started operations, Gould visited the fire site with RI State Fire Marshal Irving Owens--along with several of the fire's first-responders--to map out a search plan for what he now called his "FAR" team (Forensic Archaeological Recovery).
    Owens had also authorized Gould's group to save any human remains that might turn up. He said he didn't want a situation where souvenir-hunters or lawyer-types would be pouring over the Station's site afterwards.

    Even during this first walk-through with the Fire Marshal, Gould, with his trained eye, found an earring and then a pendant with a name inscribed.



    By the end of FAR's recovery efforts, 54 biological specimens and 88 personal objects had been discovered. Gould pointed out that the "88" figure was low; items that had been found fused together were counted as one item.


    Human remains found: Arm bone with tissue; scalp piece with hair attached; finger tissue around a set of keys; clumps of hair; skull fragments; brain matter; and, a black glove containing fingers.

    Objects found included:

    -partial cell phone/burnt cell phone/Nokia cell phone/pieces of cell phone
    -car keys/keys on a keyring/VW car-starter/house key/2 keys with "7239" on them/keys with crime stopper chain
    -a partial purse with keys and cellphone
    -assorted body piercings/possible lipstick container/silver hoop earring/metal-beaded necklace with pointy projections/hair-clips/barrettes
    -a Motorola pager
    -a pool ball with earring attached
    -belt buckles, buttons, and zippers/a belt buckle with picture of mountain/a partial web belt
    -money clip with jackknife/leather knife case
    -remains of a cap with a Baltimore Pile Driving emblem

    -lighters
    -burnt bills/coins/penny
    -3 disposable cameras/charred red guitar/a guitar pick
    -partial watches/a watch face/watchband with yellow smiley faces
    -partial boot with chain/heel to a shoe/half an UGZ boot/piece of clothing with fur/assorted partial shoes/baseball cap visor
    -eyeglasses/assorted eyeglass frames
    -partial dart/cue stick tip/cue chalk/roll of register tape/The Station business cards
    -collection of baseball cards with "Danny" on one pack
    -Radio Shaak mouse
    -nasal spray
    -recipes for making shots
    -partial briefcase

  9. #1859
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    I have been reading "Trial By Fire." Interesting to get different views.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  10. #1860
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    Damn, when did Denis Larocque start inspecting condominium towers in South Florida?

  11. #1861
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    It breaks my heart how all of these people are waiting on word of loved ones, just like The Station. However, in The Station it seemed as if they were able to find out quicker probably because it was a much smaller place and people were a lot closer together.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  12. #1862
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    Johnny Reagle, the 47 year-old drummer for Trip, got himself deeply involved in the rescue efforts at the fire. And a decade later he was still suffering from a sleep-disrupting PTSD. His daughter has said it wasn't unusual for him to wake up screaming.

    Both Reagle and Trip's bass player, Jason Williams, had worked on building demolition in the Vancouver, Washington, area. It was their "other" gig. Reagle felt it had made him extra aware of building structures and all. So when he walked into the Station for first time, he right away found it strange that there were no sprinklers. Then, too, he noticed that in the ceiling of the drummer's alcove there was a lone, homestyle fire detector--just battery-powered, not hard-wired.

    After the fire broke out, Reagle eventually got out the stage door right behind Jack Russell. "The smoke was like that from a tire fire," he told investigators.
    He turned around not long after exiting, and saw that the smoke had fallen to about two feet above the floor.

    Then a last guy, Walter Castle, burst out. His shirt was on fire. "Please don't let me die!" he was screaming.

    After pulling Castle's shirt off, Reagle put him over his shoulder and took him to a snow bank. He could hear a sizzle when he first set him down. "I don't know if he lived or not," Reagle told the investigators. (Castle, of course, did survive.)
    When he returned to the stage-exit stairs things got worse: "A lady on fire was crawling towards me, trying to talk. That freaked me out. I couldn't do anything. The fire was so hot."

    Soon, Brian Butler's camera caught Reagle comforting Trip's manager, the now zombified Bill Long.


    Butler, who assumed Reagle WAS the bus driver--partly because of how he was dressed--shouted out to him about moving the bus.
    Then we hear Reagle respond with: "I'm climbin' in here. I'm trying to!"


    It wasn't until Biechele got behind the wheel that the bus got moved--with Reagle helping to direct him out safely.

    The next time we see Reagle he's helping with the hoses in the hellish scene at the front doors. His white shirt and his beret make him easy to spot.


    Ten years after the fire, Reagle spoke to a Washington state newspaper.
    "A shrink told me that I'll have to live with it for the rest of my life," Reagle told the reporter. "I'd feel down on myself for not doing more, and that's the human way.....It used to be that I'd hear a siren and I'd break down and bawl.....There are still the dreams. We don't have control of our dreams. I'd wake up seeing people on fire. I wanted to help but I couldn't. It's like I cheated them. But I would have died myself."

  13. #1863
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    Wow, that poor man. However, he is one of so many who were traumatized. Has anyone else read "Trial by Fire?" Thoughts on it?
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  14. #1864
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    Noelle, see pages 32 and 33 of this thread. Posts 1572-94 announce the book and our speculation before reading it. Posts 1625-47 are the 'book reports' we wrote after reading it. Please add your own when you are ready!

  15. #1865
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    Wow that ppor man. Who was the woman crawling from the stage exit? Did she survive?

  16. #1866
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    Thanks for that Billoween I was wondering who that was dealing with the bus before Biechele / good thing he helped him get the bus away safety. He was a great asset to so many different areas during the fire ( at the stage door, bus and the front door

    getting hose going. ) Hopefully the dreams fade with time although something like that is mind bending. Does anyone know if he still plays ?, that may helps if he is doing something he loved. I believe if he comes to terms that he did as much as humanly

    possible at that time it could help over time.

    JXG999 - I would assume that the lady crawling did not survive if he couldn't get to her. By then that dance floor area and stage door were a death trap for sure. Walter C. was the last one alive out that way.

    I hope everyone had a great 4th and enjoying the opening up of our lives again. I have to say I really love seeing smiling faces again and no masks ! Jimmy D

  17. #1867
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    Billoween, now that Jody King has publicly announced his wife as the 460th identified attendee, is there anything you can share about her experience? Such as, was she alone or with a known party?

    Liana King, now 62, was 43 (almost 44) at the time of the fire.

  18. #1868
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    Good question RL-And I remember you brought up this question a while back.
    I meant to reply back then, but I still donít have a definitive answer. I know Jody some and have talked with Liana a couple of times. I will look into it.
    The last time I talked with Jody we had a discussion about Tracyís Dodge Ram. It got fixed up but Jody didnít want to have it in his life so it got sold to somebody else.

    Iím about 4 hours from starting a 2-week vacation in Narragansett. (Iím in the getting cranky with the wife phase of packing.)
    Iíll be up at the Memorial a bunch, and have a good chance of some dinners with 2 survivors.

    Hiya Jimmy. Later, Bill

  19. #1869
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    Hi - I didn't realize that some people actually came through the stage door injured. I learn something new all of the time on this thread.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  20. #1870
    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    So, it turns out.....Dr. Richard A. Gould, the forensic archaeologist who led the recovery team which combed the Station Nightclub site for 11 days (starting 2-27), died of cancer in March of 2020.

    Gould, a renowned Brown University Professor of Anthropology for 28 years, was 81 and living in Honolulu with his wife, Elizabeth.

    Like a faithful anthropologist, he donated his body to the University of Hawaii's medical school.

    image share

    Back in 2003, after the Station fire, Gould led a Brown University team of 23 volunteers in the recovery of any personal effects for their eventual return to the victim's families. Human remains would go to the RI State Medical Examiner.

    In the days before he started operations, Gould visited the fire site with RI State Fire Marshal Irving Owens--along with several of the fire's first-responders--to map out a search plan for what he now called his "FAR" team (Forensic Archaeological Recovery).
    Owens had also authorized Gould's group to save any human remains that might turn up. He said he didn't want a situation where souvenir-hunters or lawyer-types would be pouring over the Station's site afterwards.

    Even during this first walk-through with the Fire Marshal, Gould, with his trained eye, found an earring and then a pendant with a name inscribed.



    By the end of FAR's recovery efforts, 54 biological specimens and 88 personal objects had been discovered. Gould pointed out that the "88" figure was low; items that had been found fused together were counted as one item.


    Human remains found: Arm bone with tissue; scalp piece with hair attached; finger tissue around a set of keys; clumps of hair; skull fragments; brain matter; and, a black glove containing fingers.

    Objects found included:

    -partial cell phone/burnt cell phone/Nokia cell phone/pieces of cell phone
    -car keys/keys on a keyring/VW car-starter/house key/2 keys with "7239" on them/keys with crime stopper chain
    -a partial purse with keys and cellphone
    -assorted body piercings/possible lipstick container/silver hoop earring/metal-beaded necklace with pointy projections/hair-clips/barrettes
    -a Motorola pager
    -a pool ball with earring attached
    -belt buckles, buttons, and zippers/a belt buckle with picture of mountain/a partial web belt
    -money clip with jackknife/leather knife case
    -remains of a cap with a Baltimore Pile Driving emblem

    -lighters
    -burnt bills/coins/penny
    -3 disposable cameras/charred red guitar/a guitar pick
    -partial watches/a watch face/watchband with yellow smiley faces
    -partial boot with chain/heel to a shoe/half an UGZ boot/piece of clothing with fur/assorted partial shoes/baseball cap visor
    -eyeglasses/assorted eyeglass frames
    -partial dart/cue stick tip/cue chalk/roll of register tape/The Station business cards
    -collection of baseball cards with "Danny" on one pack
    -Radio Shaak mouse
    -nasal spray
    -recipes for making shots
    -partial briefcase
    Oh wow. I don't quite know what to say after reading this post. RIP to Dr. Gould. He did his absolute best to return the victims to their respective family members.

    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Damn, when did Denis Larocque start inspecting condominium towers in South Florida?
    He didn't inspect that building that collapsed, did he?

  21. #1871
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    Bustakitaókidding.

    Still in Rhode Island. Met survivor Ray Beauchaineís younger brother, and a North Kingstown High School teacher who lost two students; one was Andrew Hoban.

    Noelleócould you please tell me in which Barylick presentation he mentions Erin Pucino? And give an approximate time? Thanks. She appears to be so close to the Fairbairns that Iím always thinking Iím seeing Andrea Fairbairn. I know that several faces can be seen quite clearly when Kris Somers twists his body to look back for a friend.

  22. #1872
    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Noelle—could you please tell me in which Barylick presentation he mentions Erin Pucino? And give an approximate time? Thanks. She appears to be so close to the Fairbairns that I’m always thinking I’m seeing Andrea Fairbairn. I know that several faces can be seen quite clearly when Kris Somers twists his body to look back for a friend.
    He doesn't mention her by name, but in this presentation around the 37:50 mark he circles the witness who claims Butler was blocking her exit and if I remember correctly (but maybe I'm wrong) it was cited as being her in Killer Show.

  23. #1873
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    Yes Subartican, you are correct. I wish that we could see the remainder of the video.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  24. #1874
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    Someday I'm going to share with all of you David B.'s whole saga of survival. First, though, I'm waiting for him to be up to answering some follow-up questions I've had. "I will respond again when I can go back to that place," he told me last May.

    I first met Dave at the 2018 anniversary and feel fortunate now to be in touch with him. I'm not using Dave's last name here; I just don't want to leave him quite so Goggle-able and all. (You regulars on this Station thread may remember me mentioning him before.) But now, 18 years later, Dave B. really does want his story known. He just wants to make sure it's accurate.

    I swear, his account of that night--detailed and disturbing--is right up there with Mike Vargas's experience.

    Poor Dave got stuck standing behind the pile of people plugging the front doors, and that right there is about as far as he went in his interview with the RI State Police. Maybe then he was still processing it all, but soon after would come many more memories.

    Anyway, here's one scene--in Dave's own words--that I must bring up now that Dr. Gould and his Brown University Archaeological team have been a topic. It almost puts their efforts to find personal effects, like jewelry, in a different light.

    Dave:
    "When I was stuck on top of the pile, I thought I wasn't going to make it out. I envisioned my wife in her yellow fleece and basically said goodbye to her. [Then] I ripped the great white shark-tooth necklace off my neck and held it in my clenched right fist. I outstretched my arm and almost reached to the edge of the doorway. I thought that the necklace would eventually fall outside or close to it as I died. That, by the way, is the hand that [later] required a skin-graft from my leg.
    I was [actually] trying to preserve it so that people would have something to remember me by. I always used to wear that shark-tooth necklace. I'd bought it in South Africa when me and my wife went there on our honeymoon to go scuba-diving with great white sharks. I still have the broken necklace today."

    So all this begs the question--were there any other personal effects recovered that may have been left behind on purpose? Like Dave's necklace almost was?


    Only known image of Dave B. He's wearing an old Patriots cap.

  25. #1875
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    Billoween - I think that I found you on Pinterest. I won't write your entire name on here, of course, but if it is you giving those photographs on pinterest, they are really interesting. I am going onto Pinterest to look for decorations for my classroom and I keep on going back to The Station posts.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  26. 08-01-2021, 06:57 AM

  27. #1876
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    Billoween - hope your summer is going good ! I would say Yes, I would think folks would try to take a cherished item everyone knows them by
    and leave it behind for loved ones. I would definitely try to leave my challenge coin I carry for good luck, an item my wife and others know i always carry from my days as a Police Ranger in Boston NPS.
    It would be like leaving a piece of you behind to be found.
    Be safe out there ! Everyone have a great summer !
    I went by the Memorial last week and it was looking fine in the New England sunshine ! Jimmy DClick image for larger version. 

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  28. #1877
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    Quote Originally Posted by JXG999 View Post
    Hi all, bit of an xmas present, I have finished processing the slightly clearer video of the fire (red writing version). I tried to make further edits to the colour and brightness as well as just the clarity. I hope you like it, if anyone has any other media i will be happy to process it, or any pointers feel free to sent them.

    Top tip - if you open in VLC media player, and invert the colours you can see the figures on the stage and their movements much clearer.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/2dfghdgu0i...Q%202.mp4?dl=0
    You can see Joe Kinan at :20-:21 this video is so clear. Thanks for the hard work you put into this. Amazing Job,

  29. #1878
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    I just found out Jeffrey Derderian is now a born again Christian. He hosts a show on a station in the New England area that is geared towards born agains, evangelicals, conservative Christians called Boston & Beyond. Radio show. Oh God. 🙄🙄

  30. #1879
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
    I just found out Jeffrey Derderian is now a born again Christian. He hosts a show on a station in the New England area that is geared towards born agains, evangelicals, conservative Christians called Boston & Beyond. Radio show. Oh God. 
    Praise God!

  31. #1880
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    Fireman John Gregson who was on the station web series for the Linda Suffoleto piece is doing very well. We follow each other on Instagram. He's retired and he's enjoying a career in a lifelong passion of photography.

  32. #1881
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
    You can see Joe Kinan at :20-:21 this video is so clear. Thanks for the hard work you put into this. Amazing Job,
    Hey no problem! I have been meaning to reattempt it at some point as i missed out the very start, and see if I can get anything any clearer. I will have another look at the full preshow videos too, but the source video is just so poor not much can be done. Ideally we need the first person who uploaded it to youtube to send it directly as even if it is low resolution it will have degraded further being put on youtube, downloaded, reuploaded etc.

  33. #1882
    Quote Originally Posted by JXG999 View Post
    Ideally we need the first person who uploaded it to youtube to send it directly as even if it is low resolution it will have degraded further being put on youtube, downloaded, reuploaded etc.
    I'm not even sure that would help all that much. I could be wrong but I seem to recall all the copies that are circulating on the internet today originate from a DVD from (I think) the Rhode Island Attorney General's office in the early years following the fire, so even that original version uploaded would've been fairly low resolution and quality compared to today's standards.

    What we'd really need is a copy of the original file taken directly from the tape that Butler shot, and I'm pretty sure only WPRI and John Barylick would have a copy of that at this point. Maybe the RIAG's office too, though, as it surely counts as evidence in the criminal investigation.

    Actually, come to think of it, has anyone ever written the RIAG for a copy of the video? I know they provide the files found in the Google Drive but has anyone asked them directly about an original copy of the video? That might be worth a shot.

  34. #1883
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgefield, CT
    Posts
    223
    Noelle - Yeah, I started collecting Station shots on Pinterest some years ago. Unfortunately, it's harder to properly caption photos there now.
    By the way, what grade are you teaching, if I may ask?

    Jimmy Cigar - Well, let us hope we never have cause to go digging around for your Dept. of the Interior medallion.

    TheIrishman - I agree; JXG's work on the video rocks.

    Also, that's an interesting development with Jeff Derderian. From my research and interviews, I haven't found any big turns to religiousity by other survivors of the fire. In fact, some--much like the rescuer John Gregson--seem to have abandoned their faith after the fire. Or turned it from something traditional into something more "spiritual." Many relatives of the deceased, though, did cling more to religion following the fire.

    Ever see these shots of Gregson from that night?




  35. #1884
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    1
    Thereís a podcast who just did 2 episodes on the fire and he interviews the guy who just released that book. Itís called Boston Confidential.

  36. #1885
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    I'm not even sure that would help all that much. I could be wrong but I seem to recall all the copies that are circulating on the internet today originate from a DVD from (I think) the Rhode Island Attorney General's office in the early years following the fire, so even that original version uploaded would've been fairly low resolution and quality compared to today's standards.

    What we'd really need is a copy of the original file taken directly from the tape that Butler shot, and I'm pretty sure only WPRI and John Barylick would have a copy of that at this point. Maybe the RIAG's office too, though, as it surely counts as evidence in the criminal investigation.

    Actually, come to think of it, has anyone ever written the RIAG for a copy of the video? I know they provide the files found in the Google Drive but has anyone asked them directly about an original copy of the video? That might be worth a shot.
    I think someone here has attempted that, with a thought of a low chance that they might one day be successful

  37. #1886
    Quote Originally Posted by JXG999 View Post
    I think someone here has attempted that, with a thought of a low chance that they might one day be successful
    I remember that, and I believe it was with regards to the Matthew Pickett tape rather than the original Butler video.

  38. #1887
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIrishman View Post
    I just found out Jeffrey Derderian is now a born again Christian. He hosts a show on a station in the New England area that is geared towards born agains, evangelicals, conservative Christians called Boston & Beyond. Radio show. Oh God. 
    Good for him.

  39. #1888
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgefield, CT
    Posts
    223
    I realize that the Station Fire was a complicated event, with lots of moving parts. Still, I'm like plain worn out by the sheer amount of misinformation in the new Scott James book.

    Latest example: James claims that the clicker used by Andrea Mancini at the ticket desk was never found. And yet, here's a picture of it after the fire; it was recovered in the atrium area by the Warwick Police. So c'mon man...it's right there in the RIAG materials. And it just happens way too often in Trial By Fire.
    image share site


    But enough of my harping about errors. (Yeah, I've made some too.)
    Now I just want to talk about the club's errors, with regards to its occupancy policy.

    See, it appears that the clicker numbers were never really about safety; never about warning the staff that the club was dangerously over-capacity. Not once, under the Derderians, had the Station ever denied entrance to a patron on the grounds that the club was too full. No, the clicker was simply about business, about tallying up the number of paid admissions to The Station.

    In fact, club manager Kevin Beese told investigators as much: "Sometimes bands got paid on what the door brings in." Beese went on to explain that the clicker was used in indicate exactly how many people had paid to get in and that ultimately the money total should reflect the clicker total.

    But the fire didn't care about paid attendance. No, once the place ignited, all that really mattered was the total number of bodies that suddenly needed to get out fast.

    So, I started adding up all those people who were in the club at 11:07 pm but who were never counted as being inside the club because they'd never paid admission. And there were way more than you'd think of these unaccounted-for-on-the-clicker folks.

    Yeah, first you take everyone with Great White; add everyone connected with Trip; take members of Fathead plus two wives; throw in all Station employees and bouncers; the six people with WHJY; the two Bud reps; and include, too, all of Jack Russells's guest invites--from his hotel (3), from the Denny's in Coventry (9), from The Doors of Perception Tatoos (5), Gahan and Ricardi (the college radio interviewers), and two separate video-film directors.
    Then, too, bass-player Dave Filice had his cousin, Paul McNamara--with three friends--on the guest list; there was Michael O'Connor, about to purchase the club, who was a guest of Jeff Derderian; there were the two merchandise-table gals; there were the two cops; Brian Butler; and finally, 11 regulars and former Station employees. Which makes the grand total of the "unclicked" 84. And 84 more people is a hell of a crowd to ignore when it comes to exiting safely.

  40. #1889
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    City of Angels
    Posts
    164
    Jeff's publicity photo, though...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	snf JD 2021!.jpg 
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  41. #1890
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    218
    Hey all, it's been a while since I've posted, I've been super busy. Glad I have time now to address this question:

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    What we'd really need is a copy of the original file taken directly from the tape that Butler shot, and I'm pretty sure only WPRI and John Barylick would have a copy of that at this point. Maybe the RIAG's office too, though, as it surely counts as evidence in the criminal investigation.
    I agree that multiple copies of the original Butler video surely exist, among those people/entities you mentioned and probably others. For example, whoever made the video with added captions probably started with a clear video. Also fire investigators, NIST investigators, news media etc. Since the original video was a digital recording, it won't degrade over time. I personally think it's a matter of time before a clear copy is leaked. Having said that, it's been over 18 years and we're still waiting for a clear video, so who knows.

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Actually, come to think of it, has anyone ever written the RIAG for a copy of the video? I know they provide the files found in the Google Drive but has anyone asked them directly about an original copy of the video? That might be worth a shot.
    I asked the RIAG office back in 2014 when I first got the hard drive from them, and the answer was no. Here is the email discussion:

    From: Lisa Pinsonneault <LPinsonneault@riag.ri.gov>
    Sent: Tue 3/18/2014 8:25 AM

    Ken,

    On the hard drive should be four (4) letters that detail the information that was exempted, including the Butler video, I believe. There are no plans to make additional information public. Thank you, Lisa

    Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:32 PM
    To: Lisa Pinsonneault
    Subject: RE: 2003 Station Nightclub Fire information

    Lisa,

    Thank you again for copying the Station Fire files to the hard drive I sent. Having this level of detail about this tragic event is very informative.

    I heard that in addition to the files you sent, your office may also offer to copy a DVD of the Brian Butler video. If you still offer this service, I can send you a blank DVD, again with a return envelope w/ postage. Please let me know if this is possible.

    Finally, I pursued another tantalizing clue about this based on a note in Killer Show. Near the end under Notes & Sources on p. 253 it states, "The Brian Butler videotape of the fire was ... available to the public for several years on DVD through the [United States District Court for the District of Rhode Island] court clerk's office as an exhibit to pleadings filed in the consolidated civil cases." I emailed them and again, no luck. See below.

    From: ecf intake <ecf_intake@RID.USCOURTS.GOV>
    Sent: Fri 9/27/2019 8:42 AM
    I am writing in response to your email of 9/19/2019 seeking a copy of a DVD that was a part of the Station Nightclub fire civil case before our Court. We have performed a search of the Courtís records, and we are unable to locate the DVD that you have requested.

    Michael Simoncelli
    United States District Court
    District of Rhode Island
    1 Exchange Terrace
    Providence, RI 02903

    Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:29 PM
    To: ecf intake <ecf_intake@RID.USCOURTS.GOV>
    Subject: Station Fire Butler DVD

    Hello,

    I am making a request for a copy of a DVD from your court records. It is an exhibit for the Station Nightclub Fire civil trial in the late 2000s.

    The video on the DVD was made by videographer Brian Butler of WPRI-TV in Providence, RI. It is video made in the nightclub the night of the fire.

    The book Killer Show by John Barylick has a comment in the Notes section that the DVD may be available through your court. I will pay the necessary fees and postage.

    One other idea just came to mind. Perhaps one of us can visit the USDC in RI in person. Sometimes you can view court records in person, more than may be made available online. If the DVD is found in their records, maybe we can request a copy. It's a long shot, but it beats waiting around for a copy to be made public.

  42. #1891
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,365
    I have been reading Trial by Fire and it seems as if the author is trying to place the blame on everyone but the Derderians. Interesting that the author does recommend "Killer Show" which really knocks the Derderians.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  43. #1892
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Sunny Florida
    Posts
    149
    Hi everyone, some interesting info here lately. I've got to say, I literally laughed out loud at JD's publicity pic. He looks so... metro. I don't know what to make of him suddenly "finding Christ". He just reeks of smarminess to me, and I don't like him.

    On another note, I will be in RI all next week and plan on visiting the Memorial. I will make sure to take pics, and if anyone has any requests, let me know.

    Keep on keepin on, y'all

  44. #1893
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgefield, CT
    Posts
    223
    Amanda - I was wondering about your absence. Hope you had a great RI visit. It wasn't your first time at the Memorial was it?



    Well.....there were four working fire extinguishers inside The Station on 2/20/03. Trying to trace their individual "stories" from that night nearly melted my brain, but I think I have the facts down now.


    #1 - The soundboard extinguisher.

    Paul Vanner jumped from his position, way over at the monitor board on the left-side of the stage, to grab this extinguisher which was mounted on a leg of the soundboard.



    Vanner: "I hit the pin, hit the trigger, just to make sure I got something out of it. Then I'm heading for the stage. [But then] I'm like, dude, a fire extinguisher has no chance against this."

    Jack Rezendes (Vanner's friend on the scene with him at that same moment) yelled, "That's not going to work!"

    So Vanner finally retreated to the kitchen exit with the extinguisher and with two random club-goers (Jeff Ward and Sam Miller) whom he got to follow him out.

    Club manager Kevin Beese saw Vanner outside then and later recalled this: "I seen Paulie wandering around the parking lot, and I told him--he was walking around with the fire extinguisher--I told Paulie, 'Just drop it.' "

    Vanner: "I'm in a daze out there. I'm carrying this fire extinguisher.....I just threw it in the woods."

    WWPO Bettencourt: "[Outside] behind the stage area I saw a fire extinguisher.....I just don't know how it got there.....it just was odd how it got to that area."

    A RI State Fire Marshal, Officer D. Curren recovered the soundboard extinguisher on the club's west side, "in the snow between cars."

    Vanner, in an interview conducted ten years later, said he wished he could go back and use the extinguisher, even if it cost him his life; it might have slowed the fire somewhat, he figured.

    --It makes me wonder how it would have all played out IF Paul Vanner had been in his usual spot--behind the soundboard--instead of 25' to 30' further away at the monitor board. I can't imagine that Bob Rager, GW's soundman, knew that that fire extinguisher was right there on the leg of the soundboard.

    (to be continued)
    Last edited by billoween; 09-16-2021 at 10:37 PM. Reason: Clarity

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