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Thread: Station Nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island 2

  1. #1301
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    Another great story, Billoween! Thanks so much for sharing... your comment prompted me to check out those Linda Omerod pics again, it had been a really long time since I'd looked at them. I didn't realize what was there... there's this one of Steve Mancini: SMancini.jpg and then this one of his wife, Andrea Mancini, watching him perform in front of the stage: Linda Ormerod 004.jpg Makes me sad... especially since I know Andrea's sister and remember how big a deal their wedding was 2 summers before. They definitely loved each other, and they were definitely loved.

  2. #1302
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    Found a great podcast interview with John Barylick and a former KISS pyrotechnician, they discuss the Station fire, pyrotechnics, and concert safety - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg7pldk_zoA

    Interview starts around the 7:30 mark.

  3. #1303
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    Oh boy, here's an interesting one! John Barylick discusses in detail the lawsuit against Brian Butler and shows the specific evidence against him (starting around the 34:50 mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OABI8Sj3T6c

    I've been wondering for so long how this whole thing came about and it's nice to finally see the specifics of it. I will admit I can understand why they thought they had a solid case and why the broadcaster/insurance company chose to settle rather than risk a trial.

    That said, it doesn't actually change my opinion on the matter. The fundamental issues I have with it in the first place were not touched on at all, and it's very clear to me (as someone with years of professional videography experience) that Barylick doesn't know anything about videography/camera operation and is basing this thing primarily on incorrect assumptions about camera work and speculation based on one phrase from Butler's phone call from the van. Not sure if it's worth going into more detail, as I think most people here are of the opinion that Butler likely didn't block anyone, but I can certainly elaborate if people have questions about it.

    Something that may be of interest to others here is that Barylick visually identifies a particular concertgoer, both in the crowd during the escape and in the pileup, who claimed that was Butler was impeding her. She was separated from Butler by several people through the whole thing so I'm not exactly sure how she came to the conclusion that he was blocking her, but I'd definitely be interested in seeing if she's ever mentioned the incident in a police interview or grand jury statement and getting her side of the story.

  4. #1304
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    Amanda - thanks again. Playing with more ideas. If everyone's stuck at home, stories might be just the ticket.

    Hiya Sub - thanks for the new Barylick lecture, even if it sent my blood pressure soaring.


    Did you ever wonder why Barylick doesn't stick with Butler's sound but instead uses Pickett's? I wonder if it's just too uncomfortable for him to try and explain the obvious sounds of Butler dislodging the lower black metal panel--and thereby saving multiple lives--which, of course, you don't get with Pickett's sound.

    I think Butler was a martyr whose truth was sacrificed to get big money for survivors--which didn't hurt what % the lawyers got as well. Just saying....

    It bothers the hell out of me ethically, and yet falsely disparaging Butler gave the survivors the big bucks they truly needed.

    Barylick told me this once in a note: "The book describes the facts in the light most favorable to my clients for the purposes of the litigation." I hear this as, "To get big $ for my many deserving clients, I need to fudge the truth even if it unfairly ruins a man's reputation forever. Why worry about one man when we got all this money for 310 people?" So there's a real quandary here.

    And what is Barylick's issue with the facts lately? He was way wrong about the number of people that got out the front door. And now--I mean, why oh why, with all the witness statements publicly available, does he say that only ONE non-employee got out the kitchen door? At least 14 patrons escaped via that exit. They are: Paul Braga, Steve Burgess, Jason Cooley, David Corey, Gilbert Diorio, Matthew Dussault, Stephen Eldridge, Geno Goguen, Mike McGee, Sam Miller, Jennifer Stocks, Jeff Ward, Robert Luxton, and Phillip Barr.

    Barylick better not come to my local Connecticut library, or he's going to get a real earful at Q and A.

  5. #1305
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    That is quite a find. So sad to know that that was their final night, as well as so many others.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  6. #1306
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Amanda - thanks again. Playing with more ideas. If everyone's stuck at home, stories might be just the ticket.

    Hiya Sub - thanks for the new Barylick lecture, even if it sent my blood pressure soaring.


    Did you ever wonder why Barylick doesn't stick with Butler's sound but instead uses Pickett's? I wonder if it's just too uncomfortable for him to try and explain the obvious sounds of Butler dislodging the lower black metal panel--and thereby saving multiple lives--which, of course, you don't get with Pickett's sound.

    I think Butler was a martyr whose truth was sacrificed to get big money for survivors--which didn't hurt what % the lawyers got as well. Just saying....

    It bothers the hell out of me ethically, and yet falsely disparaging Butler gave the survivors the big bucks they truly needed.

    Barylick told me this once in a note: "The book describes the facts in the light most favorable to my clients for the purposes of the litigation." I hear this as, "To get big $ for my many deserving clients, I need to fudge the truth even if it unfairly ruins a man's reputation forever. Why worry about one man when we got all this money for 310 people?" So there's a real quandary here.

    And what is Barylick's issue with the facts lately? He was way wrong about the number of people that got out the front door. And now--I mean, why oh why, with all the witness statements publicly available, does he say that only ONE non-employee got out the kitchen door? At least 14 patrons escaped via that exit. They are: Paul Braga, Steve Burgess, Jason Cooley, David Corey, Gilbert Diorio, Matthew Dussault, Stephen Eldridge, Geno Goguen, Mike McGee, Sam Miller, Jennifer Stocks, Jeff Ward, Robert Luxton, and Phillip Barr.

    Barylick better not come to my local Connecticut library, or he's going to get a real earful at Q and A.
    So Butler essentially got screwed over so that 310 victims would get money? Why didn't they just give them money anyways, why ruin the reputation of someone who saved a couple lives to begin with? He obviously had the camera to the back, he didn't impede anyone and even yelled if anyone's inside. I'm just some guy in Florida that has never even been up there once and discovered this years back and did a whole bunch of research. Reading this along with just the whole tragedy in general makes me so angry sometimes. Seeing the video and the horrible suffering in it makes me sad since it was so preventable, yet if I had a dollar for how much common common sense was that night, I wouldn't even be able to afford a "need money god bless you" cardboard sign I'd hold at intersections.

    And how did he get his hands on the Picket tape audio? I thought it only belonged to the family of Matthew? It also seems he has that HD version of the video too?
    Last edited by pcwhiz24; 03-17-2020 at 08:22 PM.

  7. #1307
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    Thanks, subarctican! I'll watch the first 3/4 of JB's presentation later. But that last bit was interesting enough. Just after 38:30- "I can make a cartoon to prove anything." And he said Butler's phone call was difficult to hear?! It was in this weird version he played, but not in every other version I've ever heard.

  8. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Amanda - Thank you. Plenty more stories to tell. Dion's a drummer; wonder if he'd ever seen this memorable clip of Latulipee.
    Yes I play drums as a hobby, and I was very impressed with Dale Latulipee's drumming! He made it look effortless and fun to play. And it's hard to record a good drum sound outside a professional recording studio, so I'm impressed with the sound he got too. Such a sad loss. I'd seen his video a few months ago while browsing YouTube, but thought it had been posted here already. Thanks for posting it Amanda.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcwhiz24 View Post
    And how did [Barylick] get his hands on the Picket tape audio? I thought it only belonged to the family of Matthew? It also seems he has that HD version of the video too?
    As the lead trial lawyer, Barylick had access to all the evidence including the Pickett audio. He put together the audio/video sync with the clear Butler video, intending to show it to a jury for maximum shock value. I think he says in Killer Show that he did play it for some of the companies being sued, and it helped them decide to settle rather than take it to trial.

  9. #1309
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    Billoween - I totally agree it's a bit strange that he uses the Pickett audio in these presentations despite being adamant that it never get out on the internet and calling people "disaster ghouls" for being interested in it, and it is also strange how he gets so many minor details wrong on a case he was so heavily involved in. Another thing he blatantly gets wrong in this lecture was the claim that Brian Butler zoomed in on the stage door as he was exiting, which did not happen.

    RodentLady - the sound quality of the lecture is not great, both the recording and in the actual room itself. There's a lot of background noise, and when Barylick plays the same segment of the video/Pickett tape that we've already seen, it's very quiet and muffled just like the Butler phone call.

  10. #1310
    I'm also a hobbyist drummer. Playing self-taught since 1984. Here's me with Mike Portnoy, in his house about three years ago. If you're a drummer, you know who this guy is. And he literally lives 5 minutes from me. 20863604_10155681669243914_8025461893268007082_o_LI (3).jpg I doctored the photo a bit to focus more on Portnoy rather than myself.
    Last edited by Lt. Frank Drebin; 03-19-2020 at 08:10 PM.
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  11. #1311
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    Found a slightly higher quality version of the early stages of the fire, about 37 seconds total from just before Butler pans to the crowd until just after the fire alarm starts, and with a slightly different sound mix of the audio - the band playing sounds quite bass-y and muffled but you can hear people talking in the crowd way more clearly than in the video on the Google Drive.

    It starts around 38 seconds in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tnzx1pQjic

  12. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Found a slightly higher quality version of the early stages of the fire, about 37 seconds total from just before Butler pans to the crowd until just after the fire alarm starts, and with a slightly different sound mix of the audio - the band playing sounds quite bass-y and muffled but you can hear people talking in the crowd way more clearly than in the video on the Google Drive.

    It starts around 38 seconds in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tnzx1pQjic
    Good find! I can hear a woman right around 1:10 clearly saying "I can't move!" Compared to the other video I where could barely make it out. Really puts into perspective how bad it was trying to get out. It's way clearer especially the flames, you can see how symmetrical they were. If the two flames were actually outdoors and it was a controlled intentional effect, it would actually look pretty cool. I can see now why they thought it was part of the show, plus the music video to Desert Moon had fire in it too.

    One note: I never noticed the TV's in by the atrium windows!

    On another note I always wondered who's that chill looking woman towards the bottom around 0:41 holding the beer bottle and whether she made it out or not?
    Last edited by pcwhiz24; 03-19-2020 at 10:31 PM.

  13. #1313
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    Subarctican - great find!

    PCwhiz - I'm wondering if the reflections from those curved windows in the atrium are creating a TV screen effect. There were 2-3 TV's in the main bar, but I've never come across any mention of screens in the atrium. i think what you may be seeing is the bright light from the under-roof illuminating the side of the tour bus. You can even see the buses' insignia on the side. In the police/fire photos of the aftermath, that insignia is half blistered off from the atrium's heat.


    --If you look at GW's contract with The Station, these were two requirements in the rider:


    1.) "Two large pizzas with mushrooms, salami, [and] sausage toppings to be in dressing room directly after show."

    2.) "Jack Russell will carry out a meet-and-greet 20 minutes after the performance, at an area near to the merchandise section. Please ensure that there is one chair, a table, a black Sharpie pen and adequate security in the area, to ensure the smooth flow of people and the safety of the artist."

    --Now, regarding the meet-and-greet: If you were a paying subscriber to Melodicrock.com you could obtain two tickets to the show plus access to Jack Russell at the post-show meet-and-greet. Only survivor Joe LoBianco (and guest) and survivor George Dionne (and guest) were on the list. Joe brought along fellow GW fan, Michael Kulz (D), and George invited his friend Thomas Tripp. Tripp, fortunately, left before GW took the stage; he had to go and pick up his mother from the Providence bus station.
    Last edited by billoween; 03-26-2020 at 07:49 PM.

  14. #1314
    Quote Originally Posted by pcwhiz24 View Post



    On another note I always wondered who's that chill looking woman towards the bottom around 0:41 holding the beer bottle and whether she made it out or not?
    Go back to page 24 in this thread. I detailed the IDs of these two women. That "chill woman holding a beer" is actually two women. Holding the beer is Cynthia Nobles and the woman you see from the side is Angela Ochs.
    You will see them both bolting for the exit soon after the fire starts. They were the first in this area to leave.
    Last edited by Lt. Frank Drebin; 03-20-2020 at 01:10 PM.
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  15. #1315
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    The "TV screens" in the Atrium are definitely reflections, though they appear to be from something above the windows (something hanging down from the ceiling?) rather than the windows themselves. If you look closely you can see fans waving their hands in those reflections during Butler's initial pan right to the crowd, and then as Butler moves away you can eventually see the fire reflecting off that area.

    Another piece of audio I noticed is someone (Ken Mariorenzi? Brian Butler?) saying in a very calm and reassuring voice, "Don't push, we'll get out, relax", as well as someone saying "Just like the g___", can't make out what the last word is other than that it starts with a "g".

    Some interesting visual details I noticed for the first time with this version of the video - a guy with a baseball cap by the right speaker column who slowly makes his way around the speakers as Butler walks away from the stage, and appears to disappear around the corner toward the stage exit after that (though at that point the camera shakes enough that I can't quite get a clear view - he appears to head that way around the 1:02/1:03 mark in the link I posted). It's possible he's with the blonde-headed woman in the blue jacket (and her friend?) who can be seen in the crowd shots of the pre-fire video as well as in one of the Daniel Davidson photos.

    A few seconds later, just before the video cuts out, I believe I can see Scott V hopping down from the stage and standing in front of the entrance as band members start to exit behind him. I wonder if that stage exit was initially unguarded and then Scott V started blocking people once the band started evacuating?

    I think a high-quality version of the full video would help us make out some many more interesting details like that and piece together the timeline of when things like that were happening, who knows maybe we could even see Gina and Fred getting blocked from the exit? I'd also really like to figure out the timeline of the Davidson photos and sync them up to the video... if only WPRI would release it publicly!

    pcwhiz24 - in addition to the ID of who those women were, it was also determined that one of them is the "where's my husband?" lady that you hear right after Butler gets out of the venue.

  16. #1316
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    The "TV screens" in the Atrium are definitely reflections, though they appear to be from something above the windows (something hanging down from the ceiling?) rather than the windows themselves. If you look closely you can see fans waving their hands in those reflections during Butler's initial pan right to the crowd, and then as Butler moves away you can eventually see the fire reflecting off that area.

    Another piece of audio I noticed is someone (Ken Mariorenzi? Brian Butler?) saying in a very calm and reassuring voice, "Don't push, we'll get out, relax", as well as someone saying "Just like the g___", can't make out what the last word is other than that it starts with a "g".

    Some interesting visual details I noticed for the first time with this version of the video - a guy with a baseball cap by the right speaker column who slowly makes his way around the speakers as Butler walks away from the stage, and appears to disappear around the corner toward the stage exit after that (though at that point the camera shakes enough that I can't quite get a clear view - he appears to head that way around the 1:02/1:03 mark in the link I posted). It's possible he's with the blonde-headed woman in the blue jacket (and her friend?) who can be seen in the crowd shots of the pre-fire video as well as in one of the Daniel Davidson photos.

    A few seconds later, just before the video cuts out, I believe I can see Scott V hopping down from the stage and standing in front of the entrance as band members start to exit behind him. I wonder if that stage exit was initially unguarded and then Scott V started blocking people once the band started evacuating?

    I think a high-quality version of the full video would help us make out some many more interesting details like that and piece together the timeline of when things like that were happening, who knows maybe we could even see Gina and Fred getting blocked from the exit? I'd also really like to figure out the timeline of the Davidson photos and sync them up to the video... if only WPRI would release it publicly!

    pcwhiz24 - in addition to the ID of who those women were, it was also determined that one of them is the "where's my husband?" lady that you hear right after Butler gets out of the venue.
    Did she ever find her husband? I wish they would release the full quality version too, I don't get why they don't release it nearly 20 years later now. (What happened to "Freedom of Info Act" haha)Same with the Pickett tape, I am kinda curious what went on in there but judging by the description and what I imagine it to sound I'd probably listen to it only once and then regret it lol.

    I know it's kind of a stupid question, but how did the version of the Butler video that's out now make it out? Was it leaked a long time ago? Why is it worse quality than the original one?

  17. #1317
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    If I remember correctly it was determined that she did indeed find her husband a few minutes later when he came out the bar windows, though I'm sure one of the other posters here remembers this in better detail than I do.

    It is kind of weird that they don't release the full tape, it's not like they would lose any money by having it on youtube - they make money from it by licensing it out for news reports, documentaries, etc. and people in those fields who are legitimate are not going to use a pirated youtube version anyway even if it existed. A high quality version would purely be for the general public's use.

    I don't know how exactly the original version got out, my guess is it was probably broadcast in full at some point and someone videotaped it and then digitized it and put it online. Based on the resolution and quality that's out there, my guess is this was done in the early years after the fire, back when digital video was nowhere near the standards of today. The pre-fire video may have actually been leaked by an employee (though I don't know for sure) as it contains timecode throughout the whole video, which would not normally be present on a broadcast version. It's also possible that either of these were made available to other organizations (like firefighters' associations for safety training purposes or something like that) and they got leaked online that way. I really don't know for sure one way or another, but those seem like the most likely scenarios.

    As for the Pickett tape, I think it probably only exists in the possession of John Barylick and within an evidence file somewhere (like the Rhode Island Attorney General's office), and is very unlikely to ever make it out to the public beyond the segment of it that John uses in his presentations.

  18. #1318
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    If I remember correctly it was determined that she did indeed find her husband a few minutes later when he came out the bar windows, though I'm sure one of the other posters here remembers this in better detail than I do.

    It is kind of weird that they don't release the full tape, it's not like they would lose any money by having it on youtube - they make money from it by licensing it out for news reports, documentaries, etc. and people in those fields who are legitimate are not going to use a pirated youtube version anyway even if it existed. A high quality version would purely be for the general public's use.

    I don't know how exactly the original version got out, my guess is it was probably broadcast in full at some point and someone videotaped it and then digitized it and put it online. Based on the resolution and quality that's out there, my guess is this was done in the early years after the fire, back when digital video was nowhere near the standards of today. The pre-fire video may have actually been leaked by an employee (though I don't know for sure) as it contains timecode throughout the whole video, which would not normally be present on a broadcast version. It's also possible that either of these were made available to other organizations (like firefighters' associations for safety training purposes or something like that) and they got leaked online that way. I really don't know for sure one way or another, but those seem like the most likely scenarios.

    As for the Pickett tape, I think it probably only exists in the possession of John Barylick and within an evidence file somewhere (like the Rhode Island Attorney General's office), and is very unlikely to ever make it out to the public beyond the segment of it that John uses in his presentations.
    Do you think the original video would've been in 720p or was 1080p already available back in 2003 for professional DSLR cameras?

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post

    pcwhiz24 - in addition to the ID of who those women were, it was also determined that one of them is the "where's my husband?" lady that you hear right after Butler gets out of the venue.
    Not "determined", but more like "suspected". Angela Ochs and Cynthia Nobles stated that they exited through the front door at the time the alarm sounded, so they were way ahead of BB getting out of the place. There were many other married couples there. Anyone have a list of married couples who didn't escape together? I know that Chad Ochs escaped some time after his wife, as can be seen in the video and in testimonials.

    I'm also seeing more and more patrons who were there, but left early, therefore, they don't appear on the survivor list, but could very well appear in the pre-fire video. Can we get a list of these people? Jason Lund, Thomas Tripp, Beth Britcliffe? Sorry, but something I've been dying to ask for some time now --> who the F leaves or goes to the bathroom just before or just as the headlining act comes on?! I understand Jason Lund got a call from his pregnant wife....
    Last edited by Lt. Frank Drebin; 03-20-2020 at 08:32 PM.
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  20. #1320
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcwhiz24 View Post
    Do you think the original video would've been in 720p or was 1080p already available back in 2003 for professional DSLR cameras?
    The camera Butler used recorded in DVCPRO format which had a resolution of 720x480, so not even proper HD but still twice the resolution of the versions on the Google Drive folder, which most people here use as their reference - the Google Drive fire video has a resolution of only 352x240 while the pre-fire video is at 320x240.

    It's also not just a matter of resolution but bitrate as well - a higher bitrate means more detail in the picture but also bigger file sizes, and if I'm correct that the versions circulating on the internet are many years old then they would almost certainly have been encoded at a lower-than-ideal bitrate by today's standards in order to manage the much smaller file sizes that were common back then.

    There's also the matter of compression - the more times you make a copy of a copy (i.e. digitize the video, upload it somewhere, someone downloads it and puts red time markers every 30 seconds then re-uploads it, then someone downloads that version, etc), the more you lose quality as the video gets progressively more compressed.

    So if we were to get our hands on the master file that was originally digitized from the tape by WPRI it would be of far superior quality to any of the versions floating around the internet as of now - it would be 720x480, either 25 or 50 mbps depending what type of tape Butler was shooting on (probably 25 for the longer recording length for news video), and with no crappy compression from being uploaded and downloaded online. This is almost certainly the version that John Barylick has on his laptop, and I hope one day we too will be privy to see it, though I'm not too optimistic about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Frank Drebin View Post
    Not "determined", but more like "suspected". Angela Ochs and Cynthia Nobles stated that they exited through the front door at the time the alarm sounded, so they were way ahead of BB getting out of the place. There were many other married couples there. Anyone have a list of married couples who didn't escape together? I know that Chad Ochs escaped some time after his wife, as can be seen in the video and in testimonials.
    I recall seeing a discussion quite a while back where someone found that there were no cases of husband/wife couples being separated and the husband dying in the club, and that these two women were the only cases of the women getting out before their husbands. Or something of that nature that seemed to pretty much confirm that one of the two must've been the "where's my husband" lady.

    I could very well be misremembering, though. Or the person/people that said those things were wrong. This is just what I recall when this subject pops up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Frank Drebin View Post
    Sorry, but something I've been dying to ask for some time now --> who the F leaves or goes to the bathroom just before or just as the headlining act comes on?!
    11:07 is a pretty odd time to start, so I'm guessing they were scheduled to go on at 11:00 and ran a bit late, so people probably didn't know how much longer it was gonna take and decided to make a bathroom run thinking they'd get back before Great White started. Or something like that.
    Last edited by subarctican; 03-20-2020 at 09:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    The camera Butler used recorded in DVCPRO format which had a resolution of 720x480, so not even proper HD but still twice the resolution of the versions on the Google Drive folder, which most people here use as their reference - the Google Drive fire video has a resolution of only 352x240 while the pre-fire video is at 320x240.

    It's also not just a matter of resolution but bitrate as well - a higher bitrate means more detail in the picture but also bigger file sizes, and if I'm correct that the versions circulating on the internet are many years old then they would almost certainly have been encoded at a lower-than-ideal bitrate by today's standards in order to manage the much smaller file sizes that were common back then.

    There's also the matter of compression - the more times you make a copy of a copy (i.e. digitize the video, upload it somewhere, someone downloads it and puts red time markers every 30 seconds then re-uploads it, then someone downloads that version, etc), the more you lose quality as the video gets progressively more compressed.

    So if we were to get our hands on the master file that was originally digitized from the tape by WPRI it would be of far superior quality to any of the versions floating around the internet as of now - it would be 720x480, either 25 or 50 mbps depending what type of tape Butler was shooting on (probably 25 for the longer recording length for news video), and with no crappy compression from being uploaded and downloaded online. This is almost certainly the version that John Barylick has on his laptop, and I hope one day we too will be privy to see it, though I'm not too optimistic about that.



    I recall seeing a discussion quite a while back where someone found that there were no cases of husband/wife couples being separated and the husband dying in the club, and that these two women were the only cases of the women getting out before their husbands. Or something of that nature that seemed to pretty much confirm that one of the two must've been the "where's my husband" lady.

    I could very well be misremembering, though. Or the person/people that said those things were wrong. This is just what I recall when this subject pops up.



    11:07 is a pretty odd time to start, so I'm guessing they were scheduled to go on at 11:00 and ran a bit late, so people probably didn't know how much longer it was gonna take and decided to make a bathroom run thinking they'd get back before Great White started. Or something like that.
    Hopefully one day or maybe even the Guest List documentary will at least give us more footage. How would the quality of the master file compare to the resolution/bit-rate of the video segment (courtroom one) you linked earlier?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcwhiz24 View Post
    Hopefully one day or maybe even the Guest List documentary will at least give us more footage. How would the quality of the master file compare to the resolution/bit-rate of the video segment (courtroom one) you linked earlier?
    The Guest List will almost certainly give us more footage, as the trailer shows shots of the pre-fire crowd and Butler walking away from the stage, and they wouldn't pay the (probably exorbitant) licensing fees for that footage to only use it in the trailer and not the movie. Whether we'll get substantial amounts or just a few 3-second clips here and there remains to be seen. But surely there will be some.

    As far as quality goes, the master file uploaded to youtube would probably be very similar to the link I posted, but viewed on its own on a computer (as John Barylick has it) it would look a fair bit better (to someone with an eye for detail, anyway), as youtube puts ugly compression on everything.

  23. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Another piece of audio I noticed is someone (Ken Mariorenzi? Brian Butler?) saying in a very calm and reassuring voice, "Don't push, we'll get out, relax", as well as someone saying "Just like the g___", can't make out what the last word is other than that it starts with a "g".
    The word sounds like garden with a New England accent- "godden." The Garden was a major Boston entertainment venue.

    To me, the man saying, "Come on, no pushing. We'll get out. Relax." sounds like Butler. Yet I also wonder if he could be Jay Gates. Gates was near the ticket booth at that time. Earlier in the thread, I described how Gates could be the dude my brother-in-law knocked into, sloshing some of dude's beer and making him angry. Gates told his recollection of a beer sloshing event to Rolling Stone magazine. My sister recalled to me walking in front of her boyfriend/husband who was bear-hugging her from the back so they wouldn't get separated. Must have been more like shuffling, I imagine. A man leaning against a wall (or doorway, I don't remember her exact words) said something reassuring, like what is heard in the recording. Then the beer bumping happened. Since Gates is seen exiting right behind Butler, he must have been very close as the camera went by, recording that audio.

    So Jay Gates fits with what I was told, but the voice sounds like Butler. There ya go!

  24. #1324
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Diego CA
    Posts
    5,443
    Had a lady on Instagram commenting on the fire she said she was there the night of the fire and was trapped inside, I kind of smelled BS, so I asked her what door did she get out of, she said the band door, I said...oh really...she quickly logged off and deleted her account...
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

  25. #1325
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgefield, CT
    Posts
    108
    Hobbyist Frank - enjoyed your picture with Portnoy. You must be in drummer's heaven during your sessions together.

    Rodent L. - Could "godden" be "goddamn?"
    - So RL, with your loved ones shown, do you still get the heebs when you revisit that sequence in the corridor?

    Pks - Yea, for your vigilant policing of the truth. Way to go. I'm working on a entry about who-left-by-stage-door and in-what-order. You'll see it here soon.

    Sub - Those are the Conant sisters in front; blonde-haired Nicole in denim, and her taller but younger sister, Stephanie. They became friendly with GW after having seen them 12+ times. They had even dropped by The Station at 4:00 in the afternoon on the 20th to give them an early hello. They said they were big fans of Mark Lane, in particular, which is why they positioned themselves where they did.

    Other possible light sources bouncing around the atrium: light-up beer signs near windows; lights hanging above where the pool tables normally sat, and--most importantly--the bright lights shooting down from under the roof overhang illuminating the side of the tour bus, which is 5-7 feet from the windows.

    Possible time scenario:
    11:03 - GW's 3-minute intro tape begins
    11:06 - GW plays
    11:07 - GW's pyro ignites foam

    -Is it possible that Barylick still gets to use his Butler footage/Pickett sound piece because he had "created" it for the trial? Like maybe there's some exception he's engineered, because it was his baby--for the trial that never was? It does beg some permission questions. Like hmmm.....he gets WPRI-TV (LIN Television was the parent company) to fork over 30 million dollars and they no longer care if he shows their footage now whenever he wants?

    -I hope the Pickett family never attends his lectures. They probably don't need to hear Matthew's last gasps again.
    Last edited by billoween; 03-26-2020 at 07:44 PM.

  26. #1326
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    City of Angels
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Rodent L. - Could "godden" be "goddamn?"
    - So RL, with your loved ones shown, do you still get the heebs when you revisit that sequence in the corridor?
    I don't hear "goddam." It hear, "Just like The Garden." That context works well, as if that man had a crowd experience at The Garden.

    I only have a natural response to anything about the fire the first time I see/hear/read it. After that, I don't have much emotion. I'm analytical and curious. My sister and BIL were never recorded on video. They must have been in front of Butler. A detective asked them (separately) if they would be okay with viewing the 'before' footage to look for themselves or anyone else they could identify. They agreed. Neither of them saw themselves.

    I think she told me that the reassuring tones/beer bump man was drunk. So maybe he was slower to react than he otherwise would have been.

  27. #1327
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    8
    For anyone curious about the Pickett tape, I just found another John Barylick Killer Show lecture like the one posted where he shows the Butler/Pickett video. This time there's no one talking in the background so you can hear it much more clearly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUndJG44Moc
    Video starts at 14:40
    He stops about 1:30 into it but it really gives us a really good idea of what went on in there after Butler left. It's exactly as the book describes, and it's heartbreaking. I'll warn you the part he does play is as bad as I imagined. I don't even want to know what happens after he pauses.

  28. #1328
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    San Diego CA
    Posts
    5,443
    Anniversary talk by John Barylick on Feb 22,2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OABI8Sj3T6c
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

  29. #1329
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgefield, CT
    Posts
    108
    Hey, hope everyone is doing okay. Life's gotten a little more complicated, right?, but I just wanted to say I am almost done with an "examination" of who left the stage door and in what order. Found several surprises in the research. Anyway...best wishes to everybody.

    BS - I did make one big change in my post of 3-22 (#1325). It involves lights seen in the atrium and the sight (on BB) of the touring buses' insignia.

  30. #1330
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    23
    Can't wait to see your analysis, Billoween! I've always wondered how exactly things unfolded at the stage doors and the details I saw in the higher quality video I posted have only made me more curious.

  31. #1331
    I had written a nice long reply which for some reason did not post but!

    I have read and been in both threads thoroughly as somehow I became ensconced in this event because I feel like was a "it could have been me event" plus IDK how I even got into this but I feel like you guys helped to show how brave and honorable the attendees were even if they didn't know it at the time and that y'all helped "put respeck on their names".

    I am so into SNF my kids will see me "sucked into my devices" and ask "are you on SNF again..." I got into it when they were both in elementary school and they are now young adults...

    but my question is: have we identified this lady featured starting at 0:06 with the baby blue jacket. she kinda looked as if "I'm just here with my friends" or "he asked me out a date..ok I came"

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWktCkulV0

  32. #1332
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    23
    Had an interesting dream last night, I was watching the Station fire video and the camera pointed out directly at the exit as people started to leave and I could see the people walking into the entrance hallway. It was clear as day (maybe I was actually there in the dream instead of watching the video?) and it felt 3D like real life instead of watching it on a 2D computer screen. There was also a weird and distorted version of Desert Moon playing in the background.

    Quote Originally Posted by bustakita View Post
    but my question is: have we identified this lady featured starting at 0:06 with the baby blue jacket. she kinda looked as if "I'm just here with my friends" or "he asked me out a date..ok I came"

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWktCkulV0
    The lady in the blue jacket and the woman beside her are the Conant sisters, who Billoween talks about in post #1325 on this page. They were big Great White fans apparently and seem to have snuck out through the stage exit along with the guy in the baseball cap behind them, shortly after the fire started.
    Last edited by subarctican; 03-29-2020 at 09:21 AM.

  33. #1333
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Frank Drebin View Post
    Thank you for giving me that back story. The trouble I'm running into here is the lack of interest on IDing those involved. Most want to know and see who died. I put in a lot of work into IDing who I believe to be Cynthia Nobles and Angela Ochs, as well as many other survivors, but no ensuing interest. Crickets. I think we keep going over the same people in the videos round-and-round because of a lack of genuine interest. So am I doing this for my own edification? If no one gives a damn, why should I be doing this when I could be doing something else constructive? What happened to those genuinely interested? Billoween and RodentLady seem to be the only ones truly interested. Pathetic.


    Your efforts are much appreciated on my end.
    Last edited by CWC67; 03-29-2020 at 12:53 PM.

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