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Thread: Station Nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island 2

  1. #1551
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    I can see Sub's text only if I highlight it. Seems like the text is sometimes coloured white and the background is white too.

    I've been wondering, if we believe that the footage was at some point publically available (can't remember who/when it was it said the footage was available in vhs/dvd format). Is it possible to request it? Do we have more info on the publically available footage -- like, who was selling it (WRPI I assume?), and why?
    Last edited by Yoyoyo; 10-21-2020 at 09:08 PM.

  2. #1552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markinthedark View Post
    …perhaps there was more conversation in the first 4 minutes of the 8 minute tape. Which, ultimately indicates we were not hearing the dying gasps of Pickett at the end of the 90 second clip.
    Welcome Mark and other newbies. We've only been analyzing the short bit of the Pickett tape audio that has come to light for less than a year. So more details will likely be fleshed out. But I wanted to go on record that according to p. 113 of Killer Show, the Pickett tape is 25-30 minutes long. The first 15 minutes is preshow. Then as the fire starts, we begin the excerpt played by Barylick in his presentation. It ends with the sound of someone gasping for air. Based on the proximity I'm pretty sure it's Pickett. And this very likely indicates when the smoke layer descends on him. We can assume he was quickly overcome with smoke inhalation, and according to the book his tape continues recording for 10 minutes after that. Chilling.
    Last edited by dionyzus; 10-21-2020 at 10:13 PM.

  3. #1553
    Oh is my previous post not showing? I was having some formatting issues but it looks fine on my end. I've got the dark background though so the white text looks fine on it. Is there a way to make the text color "neutral" so that it shows up visible regardless of color theme (i.e. dark text when viewing the light theme, white text when viewing the dark theme, etc.)?

  4. #1554
    I just rewatched the Safety first version of this tragedy for the billionth time and I'm noticing that people in the "front" "middle" and "further back" pointing at the the fire just as Ty is looking at it and I'm hearing "fire, fire" before it's truly noticed how dangerous the situation has become and I'm guessing because it's so loud no one is really noticing (on stage) and it's kind of sad really.

  5. #1555
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    Quote Originally Posted by bustakita View Post
    I just rewatched the Safety first version of this tragedy for the billionth time and I'm noticing that people in the "front" "middle" and "further back" pointing at the the fire just as Ty is looking at it and I'm hearing "fire, fire" before it's truly noticed how dangerous the situation has become and I'm guessing because it's so loud no one is really noticing (on stage) and it's kind of sad really.
    The thing is I’m pretty sure they DID notice. The drummer certainly would have. Ty looked back multiple times. I remember reading that JR did look back a couple times too but it’s not picked up on camera because the camera’s not on him when he does so. They didn’t want to ruin their set — image was important to them (especially JR). In show business the usual mantra is just to keep going e.g. if someone falls or you make a mistake. They were probably thinking “keep playing — someone will put the fire out and it we’ll make a joke about it at the end of the song”. Obviously they didn’t know just how FAST the fire would spread, but the extra few seconds could have saved multiple lives. Plus, if instead of saying “that’s not good” (which understated the whole situation, probably relaxing people) JR had said “please make your way out using all available exits including the one over here [stage door]” it wouldn’t have been such a tragedy.

    My dad is a firefighter and generally he’s VERY fast to react to any kind of emergency which has made me pretty fast to react too. Like someone needing medical assistance for example. I always call an ambulance immediately and go to help them, whereas a lot of other people just stand around staring. You never know if a few seconds will mean life over death. Maybe afterwards it turns out you overreacted and look a bit silly, much better than knowing you could have saved someone but didn’t.

  6. #1556
    Yes, several members noticed for sure. We can clearly see Ty Longley and the bass player looking up at it in the last couple seconds before Brian Butler moves away from the stage, and in his grand jury testimony the drummer mentions it as well:

    "I looked at it and I was, like holy shit, but um, I thought it was pretty small at the time, it was right off the bat I thought somebody was gonna to come up to put it out, I didn't think there'd be a problem, so I didn't want to - it concerned me but I didn't want to stop playing and get bitched out, like what the hell are you doing stopping the show and, that was my main thought, but then it start - nobody came up, it started gettin' bigger and then I saw Dan run up and try to throw water ... I saw, you know, the flame was just rapidly growing. I was like that isn't gonna do shit. I stopped playing before anybody in the band and I, and I ran out. Well, I got out of the cove and by the time I turned around that flame was up on, over the, getting over the ceiling, onto the ceiling and I heard the security guard, I didn't see him, but I heard him say, get the fuck out of here."

    If Jack Russell did notice, it probably wasn't until fairly late. He obviously doesn't see it when he's on camera and seems oblivious to the several fans near the front that start pointing and waving and yelling just before Butler moves away, and in this picture which Adam Florio took several seconds after Butler moved away, Jack Russell and Mark Kendall are still seemingly oblivious to it.

    As far as making an announcement goes, it surely would've helped a lot. However, I would personally put that responsibility on the security staff rather than Jack or anyone in the band. I doubt most musicians at any given show in a random city have any serious knowledge of the venue layout or how to initiate an evacuation, etc. They're just there to entertain people for the evening, anything safety/security related should be handled by appropriately trained venue staff... and of course that was just one of the countless shortcomings of the Station and its management.
    Last edited by subarctican; 10-24-2020 at 09:02 PM.

  7. #1557
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    Yeah I’m not really expecting performers ordinarily to direct an evacuation. But the fact that they were the cause of the fire makes me think they should have taken charge a little more. JR felt the need to comment SOMETHING. Too bad it couldn’t have been something constructive. That said, in this whole course of events, nobody was 100% responsible. It would’ve made more sense for a staff member to have jumped up and made an announcement. Everything that happened was a shitshow from start to finish.

  8. #1558
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoyoyo View Post
    Yeah I’m not really expecting performers ordinarily to direct an evacuation. But the fact that they were the cause of the fire makes me think they should have taken charge a little more. JR felt the need to comment SOMETHING. Too bad it couldn’t have been something constructive. That said, in this whole course of events, nobody was 100% responsible. It would’ve made more sense for a staff member to have jumped up and made an announcement. Everything that happened was a shitshow from start to finish.
    Have to agree here. And now JD's words will truly now go down in history..."it's going to be a killer show". Sadly, JR yes it was. Yes it REALLY was.

  9. #1559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoyoyo View Post
    Yeah I’m not really expecting performers ordinarily to direct an evacuation. But the fact that they were the cause of the fire makes me think they should have taken charge a little more. JR felt the need to comment SOMETHING. Too bad it couldn’t have been something constructive. That said, in this whole course of events, nobody was 100% responsible. It would’ve made more sense for a staff member to have jumped up and made an announcement. Everything that happened was a shitshow from start to finish.
    I wanted to add that I always thought JR's comment "that's not good" was part of his schtick. He had been known for making little sarcastic asides, like near the beginning of their 1991 song Call It Rock 'n Roll, which bears more than a passing resemblance to their hit Once Bitten Twice Shy. As the guitars and drums come in, he mutters "sound familiar?" to be self effacing I guess. But unfortunately the Station Fire, which had just erupted behind him, was no time or place to be making jokes.

    I agree that he should have encouraged everyone to leave the nearest exit in an orderly fashion, but you're right yoyo that it's probably more the responsibility of the venue to make PA announcements like that. And although he can't be faulted too much, he was reacting in a matter of seconds after seeing the flames, but I'm sure he had many sleepless nights later wishing he had said something more helpful.

    What I do fault JR for is insisting on using pyro in so many small clubs without taking any precautions. They used to be an arena band, so I know they were familiar with the personnel involved with putting on a show, and the protocols for safety, OSHA etc. that go along with that. I don't think he can claim ignorance when there wasn't a fire extinguisher within 100 feet, or more, of the stage at the Station.

  10. #1560
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    Subarctican - I liked your Eric Powers excerpt. (And this time I had no problem reading your entry.)


    Speaking of the band members awareness of the fire, here's a quote from GW's Mark Kendall:

    "I had my sunglasses on, so I really couldn't see what was happening. But it didn't look that bad at first. It was when the stage door opened that things became chaos."



    --Power of the Mic--

    -Kevin Beese, Station manager: "I figured Jack Russell would have turned around and maybe told his fans to calm down and exit calmly, but he jumped off the stage and ran."

    -Tom Conte, Fathead lead vocalist, also brought up "the power of the mic," in an interview and, with it, his disappointment that Russell didn't have the presence of mind to maximize HIS power.

    -In the Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire, 18 year-old busboy Walter Bailey stepped way out of his comfort zone to take to the stage and grab the microphone from a comedian; he'd decided he didn't care if it got him fired. One account has him saying this to everyone in the club's Cabaret Room:

    "I want everyone to look to my right. There is an exit in the right corner of the room. And look to my left. There's an exit on the left. And now look to the back. There's an exit in the back. I want everyone to leave the room calmly. There's a fire at the front of the building."


    What if Russell had at least tossed the cordless mic to Vanner or Vieira or Arpin? This was Russell's third time playing at The Station, though, and it's nice and empty for sound checks, so I'm surprised he wasn't more familiar with the exits. But I'm probably expecting too much of him. Now, there was a mic at the soundboard, but sitting in for the highly-experienced Vanner (who was moved to the monitor board that night) was GW's soundman, Bob Rager.
    Last edited by billoween; 10-25-2020 at 08:34 PM.

  11. #1561
    ^ Funny that you mentioned the busboy from the Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire, I was just reading about that the other day. If only someone at the Station had had the common sense to do something similar, who knows how differently things could have gone...

    A detailed evacuation plan should be part of every staff member's training at any business of this sort. Imagine one member taking the mic and making an announcement to the crowd while others coordinate getting people out, including pointing out the bar room exit and guiding people to the kitchen exit. And of course, allowing people through the stage exit while it was still viable.

    And yeah, using pyro in small venues like this without safety precautions is just mind boggling. Especially not having a fire extinguisher within arm's reach, that alone could have prevented all of this and you'd think it would be a blatantly obvious thing to do even if no other precautions were taken.

  12. #1562
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    Rodentlady - When I was at the Memorial last Friday, I made a point of checking out the timeline display with you in mind. It now shows 462 for the number of people present when the fire started. So maybe your fact-checking of them had an impact?

    Remember, too, that approximately 16 people left the club for various reasons. Like to smoke a joint, to put a coat in a car, to find am ATM machine, to take a sick girlfriend home, to pick up someone from the Providence bus station, etc. It sounds like if everyone had just stayed put inside we'd be looking at nearly 480 people total.
    Last edited by billoween; 10-27-2020 at 07:04 PM.

  13. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    It now shows 462 for the number of people present when the fire started.
    Wonderful news, billoween!! This pleases me. Thank you for letting me know!


    I'm only aware of 459 whose names match up with evidence from the AG.

  14. #1564
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    I’m confused by Gina Russo’s account. Let me be clear, I’m not doubting her account, I just don’t understand the logistics of it. She said in her web series interview that her and Fred immediately went to the stage door, were denied exit, then made “6 steps” towards the main door before the stampede started. Fred pushed her so hard she made it to the front door but was wedged in the pile up. How?? How did she manage to get to the front door. I just don’t see how it would have been possible to have gone to the stage door, argue briefly with Viera then make it all the way to the main door (and almost out). Does anyone have an idea? Does she mean you was still in that little foyer but not actually at the front door?

  15. #1565
    ^ Interesting question, Yoyoyo. I've often wondered a somewhat similar/related thing - how did the "shape" of the front-door pileup evolve in terms of people being rescued?

    If I recall correctly from previous posts, there were over 30 people who were pulled out from the pileup, but when it comes into view for the first time on the video it sure doesn't look like there are 30 people visible at the same time. So a bunch of the pileup survivors must've been behind the front group, but how did they survive that? How were they able to get enough air and avoid the smoke back there? How long did it take to reach them?

    In the photos and videos I've seen of the aftermath when the firefighters have arrived, they're physically stepping into the entrance hallway (a decent amount, too) so it would seem that the pileup did indeed shrink as the people sticking out of the door were extricated. But the whole process of how it happened is something I have a hard time visualizing.
    Last edited by subarctican; 10-27-2020 at 03:50 PM.

  16. #1566
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    Here's what I hear after repeated listenings to the portion of the Pickett audio from Barylick's presentation. If you want to examine the audio, you can use Audacity to lower Barylick's voice so you don't go deaf; high-quality stretching tempo change is also useful. The IDs of Scott Vieira and Bruce Cormier are based on grand jury statements. The grand jury quote is, "You fucking idiot, the place is on fire," but people often don't remember exact words (eg. numerous versions of JR's remark) so I'll tentatively ID the man as Bruce. I ID'd Gina Russo because of the word "Fred" and the fact that the other two Freds present got out via the main door/bar door.

    Pickett audio starting at lyric "now", ML=Male, FM=Female, JR=Jack Russell, SV=Scott Vieira, BC=Bruce Cormier, MP=Matthew Pickett, GR=Gina Russo
    0:00.4 [FM] Get out! Get out! Fire!
    0:08.6 [JR] Wow! That's not good.
    0:12.5 [ML] Get the fuck outta here!
    0:15.5 [SV] That's for the band only.
    0:17.5 [BC] Are you crazy? [...] on fire. Let's go!
    0:18.5 [MP] Joe! Joe, take a picture!
    0:21.2 [FM] Oh, my God!
    0:21.8 [SV] This is band only.
    0:27.5 [ML] Let's go! Get out!
    0:30.2 [ML] We can go to this next one.
    0:39.1 [ML] John, go out the back way! [??]
    0:44.0 [ML] Oh, my God! Oh, my God!
    0:44.4 [GR] Let Fred Go! You let Fred go!
    0:50.5 [GR] Just go out that way.
    1:11.5 [FM] Help! Help!
    1:14.7 [ML] Get outta here!

  17. #1567
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    Great post, airyerie! I’m gonna have to go back and listen again now using your transcript as a guide.

  18. #1568
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    Wonderful news, billoween!! This pleases me. Thank you for letting me know!

    I'm only aware of 459 whose names match up with evidence from the AG.

    I removed my 464; but I do like the 462 number.

    So we all agree on the 458 in Dion’s wonderfully useful spreadsheet. Then we have to add Elizabeth O’Connor, right?, who was being unfaithful to someone by going to the show with Paul Bertolo. (She’d asked him not to mention her in his police statement, and then didn’t get outted until August of 2006.)

    So, when the Providence Journal eventually came out with their final 462 count, they explained the extra 3 this way: “...there were additional patrons who chose not to be [publicly?] identified.”

    It sounds far-fetched, I know, but I have met one of these 3 at two separate anniversaries. She’s a nice gal, and I don’t know her reasons yet, but other survivors have quietly backed up her story. Don’t know about the other two people.
    Everything about the fire seems to get more complicated the closer you look at it.
    Last edited by billoween; 10-27-2020 at 07:40 PM.

  19. #1569
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    Quote Originally Posted by airyaerie View Post
    Here's what I hear after repeated listenings to the portion of the Pickett audio from Barylick's presentation. If you want to examine the audio, you can use Audacity to lower Barylick's voice so you don't go deaf; high-quality stretching tempo change is also useful. The IDs of Scott Vieira and Bruce Cormier are based on grand jury statements. The grand jury quote is, "You fucking idiot, the place is on fire," but people often don't remember exact words (eg. numerous versions of JR's remark) so I'll tentatively ID the man as Bruce. I ID'd Gina Russo because of the word "Fred" and the fact that the other two Freds present got out via the main door/bar door.

    Pickett audio starting at lyric "now", ML=Male, FM=Female, JR=Jack Russell, SV=Scott Vieira, BC=Bruce Cormier, MP=Matthew Pickett, GR=Gina Russo
    0:00.4 [FM] Get out! Get out! Fire!
    0:08.6 [JR] Wow! That's not good.
    0:12.5 [ML] Get the fuck outta here!
    0:15.5 [SV] That's for the band only.
    0:17.5 [BC] Are you crazy? [...] on fire. Let's go!
    0:18.5 [MP] Joe! Joe, take a picture!
    0:21.2 [FM] Oh, my God!
    0:21.8 [SV] This is band only.
    0:27.5 [ML] Let's go! Get out!
    0:30.2 [ML] We can go to this next one.
    0:39.1 [ML] John, go out the back way! [??]
    0:44.0 [ML] Oh, my God! Oh, my God!
    0:44.4 [GR] Let Fred Go! You let Fred go!
    0:50.5 [GR] Just go out that way.
    1:11.5 [FM] Help! Help!
    1:14.7 [ML] Get outta here!
    Wow, thanks for your hard work. Would it be possible to upload your digitally manipulated audio to dropbox? I'd love to hear the altered audio you produced.

    Sub, I knew 31 were found dead in the door but I didn't realise 30 people were pulled out alive. I suppose many/most of them must have been after the flames were protruding from the door. I think Adam Tanzi is the last/one of the last to get pulled out before the flames reached the door itself. You can see him pulling his pants up on the video which means he must have JUST been pulled out. If he was one of the last, that means not that many would have been pulled before the flames hit since he had half his body out the door.

    Wow, so that means 61 people were crammed into that little space.

    I'm looking forward to the documentary that is supposed to be coming out -- The Guest List. It was supposed to be released 2 years ago though, so who knows when/if it will be.
    Last edited by Yoyoyo; 10-28-2020 at 02:06 AM.

  20. #1570
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    This should be a link to the Pickett mp3 file excerpt with Barylick's voice lowered, flat equalization. To time-stretch in Audacity, select audio, select Effect + Change Tempo... from the menu, enter a percent (-40 works well), make sure "Use high quality stretching (slow)" checkbox is checked. First time using Dropbox, so let me know if there's a problem:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/728lluauco...ckett.mp3?dl=0

  21. #1571
    Fascinating analysis on the Pickett tape, I'll have to take a listen either tonight after I get off work or tomorrow. I'd be particularly interested in seeing if I can actually hear Scott V denying people exit, that's something I definitely didn't expect to get caught on tape.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoyoyo View Post
    Sub, I knew 31 were found dead in the door but I didn't realise 30 people were pulled out alive. I suppose many/most of them must have been after the flames were protruding from the door. I think Adam Tanzi is the last/one of the last to get pulled out before the flames reached the door itself. You can see him pulling his pants up on the video which means he must have JUST been pulled out. If he was one of the last, that means not that many would have been pulled before the flames hit since he had half his body out the door.

    Wow, so that means 61 people were crammed into that little space.
    I don't remember what the exact number was but it was over 30 - perhaps 32 or 36 or something like that. Billoween posted about it a few pages back in response to a John Barylick lecture where he said there was very little chance of anyone getting out of the pile. Based on witness statements, grand jury testimony, etc. there were close to three dozen people that got rescued from the pileup, including a few of the badly burnt survivors like Joe Kinan and Gina Russo.

    Speaking of whom, we know Joe and Gina were rescued from the pileup afterwards and they're not visible in the Butler video as far as I can tell, so they must've been further back at the time. And early in the video people are sprawled out onto the concrete in front of the main entrance while afterwards when the firefighters are there you can see in many photos that they're physically stepping into the entrance hallway. So clearly a number of people did get pulled out as the minutes passed.

    That said, it still puzzles me somewhat to think about how the whole thing evolved and how there could be so many people there.

  22. #1572
    Does anyone know what the story is behind this book? https://www.thesunchronicle.com/opin...5841acda0.html

    A few key quotes from the article:

    "I’ve had a chance to read the book, and I can tell you everything you thought you knew about the fire is probably wrong."

    "Police investigators, the Rhode Island attorney general’s office and even civil lawsuits could not determine what really happened on Thursday, Feb. 20, 2003."

    "Much of the mystery, it appears, has been solved by a North Attleboro native. Scott James, a member of the Class of 1980 at North Attleboro High School and a former news director at Channel 6 in Providence, is the author of the book, which goes on sale Tuesday."

    "Among the Journal’s mistakes, James says, was a front-page follow up claiming attendance at The Station was above capacity on the night of the fire. It was not true, but those mistakes were repeated as truths"

    "Jeffrey Derderian did not take the cash drawer and hide it in the snow, or block exits from patrons trying to escape the blaze. These and many other misconceptions add up to a portrait of the brothers as fall guys for a tragedy caused more by a lack of government oversight."

    "James managed to uncover these truths with some hard-nosed reporting and, more importantly, by securing the first-ever interviews given by the Derderians and their families."

    "And James explains how the nightclub might have had only a little more than 300 patrons that tragic night, but the fire touched virtually every Rhode Islander."



    This sounds like it's going to be full of inaccuracies and that some of those inaccuracies are perhaps being fed to the author by the Derderians. Only 300 people in the club that night? Come on...

    Interestingly, this article says the book has an interview with Brian Butler, apparently his first ever regarding the fire. That I would be genuinely interested in reading, as I've always wondered about his experience with the whole thing beyond his grand jury testimony. Just a shame it has to be associated with such a dubious book.


    Edit: here it is on Amazon, you can read a bunch of it through the "Look Inside" feature - https://www.amazon.com/Trial-Fire-De...s=books&sr=1-1

    The Canadian version has way more pages available in the preview, though I don't know if those of you in the US are able to view it - https://www.amazon.ca/Trial-Fire-Dev...6X/ref=sr_1_5?
    Last edited by subarctican; 10-31-2020 at 07:58 AM.

  23. #1573
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    Whoa, glorious new find, subarctican!! Looks like the story from the Derderians' point of view.

    I like page 337: "There's clearly a passionate desire by these anonymous posters to make sure the facts of this disaster are witnessed..."

  24. #1574
    Yeah, looks like the Derderians telling their story outside of a legal setting for the first time. Also someone connected to the sale of the foam, Brian Butler, numerous survivors, etc. Definitely a good trove of information, it's just too bad that (based on the description from the article I posted above) the author appears approaching it from the "nobody *really* knows what happened but I figured it out" angle and is spreading some blatant misinformation like the under-capacity thing.

  25. #1575
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    I'm looking forward to his 'evidence' of which 150 witness statements were fake or lying.

  26. #1576
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    I've reserved this in my local library, and I look forward to reading it, but with a critical eye.


    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    I like page 337: "There's clearly a passionate desire by these anonymous posters to make sure the facts of this disaster are witnessed..."

    We got name checked! That's nice, and it's clear the author used our forum as a resource.


    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    I'm looking forward to his 'evidence' of which 150 witness statements were fake or lying.

    Indeed. I wouldn't normally be critical of a book before reading it, but if he is claiming that only about 300 people were in the club, there are multiple ways to disprove that, including the witness statements and the official list of 458 people in the club by the investigators. (As we have recently discussed, there were perhaps half a dozen more than that!) Here is my spreadsheet that I created based on the official list.
    Last edited by dionyzus; 11-01-2020 at 12:06 AM.

  27. #1577
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    I'm very suspicious of the new book. BTW, is Vieira a common name in RI? This was taken at the scene:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  28. #1578
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    I've known 2 RI'ers with Vieira as a last name, and there is also Meredith.

  29. #1579
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    VERY common name. There are about 14 long pages of Vieiras (and that's not counting the Vieras) on rivoters.com.

  30. #1580
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    VERY common name. There are about 14 long pages of Vieiras (and that's not counting the Vieras) on rivoters.com.

    Thanks, RodentLady! There's no one by that name (either spelling) in my current neck of the woods. I'll remove the info from my mental S.V. folder.

  31. #1581
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    Great find, subartican! Look like another rabbit hole to explore... though I've got to say, I'm a bit apprehensive with these new "facts" being presented. Who is this guy who wrote the book? What is his relationship to the Derderians? It just seems like the eye witness accounts of hundreds of other patrons are being dismissed, which is not cool.

    Either way, definitely checking it out!

  32. #1582
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    Answered my own question... here’s an interesting screen shot taken from Linda Derderian’s Facebook page:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  33. #1583
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    I put two pics of Linda Suffoletto by a frame of the blonde by the soundboard. Am I alone in thinking the blonde looks younger than 43 and thinner than Linda? Was Linda was a smoker? Has this lady she ever been ID'd as anyone other than Linda? Just wondering.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  34. #1584
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    Quote Originally Posted by airyaerie View Post
    I put two pics of Linda Suffoletto by a frame of the blonde by the soundboard. Am I alone in thinking the blonde looks younger than 43 and thinner than Linda? Was Linda was a smoker? Has this lady she ever been ID'd as anyone other than Linda? Just wondering.
    I don't think that was Linda at all... I want to say that this particular blonde woman has been id'd somewhere else in these threads awhile back, but I could be wrong. Either way, no, I don't think that was her.

  35. #1585
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderAmander View Post
    I don't think that was Linda at all... I want to say that this particular blonde woman has been id'd somewhere else in these threads awhile back, but I could be wrong. Either way, no, I don't think that was her.

    OK! The only other name from this (or the previous) thread is Catherine Sagesta. She died of cancer in February, 2008 and was 35 on 2/20/2003. I can't find a pic of her though.

  36. #1586
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    Additional picture of Linda and Ben Suffoletto: Google “starlike truckers, ltd suffoletto.”
    See, I feel like everyone wants to use only one photo to determine if this is Linda S. So here’s another option.

    Have 20 pages left of Trial By Fire. I won’t say too much until more have read it. Us fact-checkers are going to have a field day...just saying...but how does Scott James manage to make this sensational tragedy so dull?

    Oh, and yes, Linda Suffoletto smoked cigarettes.
    Last edited by billoween; 11-05-2020 at 07:13 PM.

  37. #1587
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    [QUOTE=billoween;1562120]Additional picture of Linda and Ben Suffoletto: Google “starlike truckers, ltd suffoletto.”
    See, I feel like everyone wants to use only one photo to determine if this is Linda S. So here’s another option.

    Thanks! The more pics, the better. In these three, it looks like Linda has naturally curly hair; soundboard lady's hair looks straight/styled to me (and her nose appears longer and narrower), but I'm wrong so often, I could do it for a living. ^^ Do you have other pics, eg. the one used on Sarah Telgarsky's memorial stone? Thanks!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  38. #1588
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Additional picture of Linda and Ben Suffoletto: Google “starlike truckers, ltd suffoletto.”
    See, I feel like everyone wants to use only one photo to determine if this is Linda S. So here’s another option.

    Have 20 pages left of Trial By Fire. I won’t say too much until more have read it. Us fact-checkers are going to have a field day...just saying...but how does Scott James manage to make this sensational tragedy so dull?

    Oh, and yes, Linda Suffoletto smoked cigarettes.
    Billoween! I'm about halfway through the new book myself. Can't wait to dissect it with you (all)!

    Airyaerie- yes, I think we were almost positive the dark haired woman was Catherine Sagesta based on her Facebook and other photos of her. She was on a date with that guy that night, John Vandeusen (who was pretty badly burned).

  39. #1589
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Found a great podcast interview with John Barylick and a former KISS pyrotechnician, they discuss the Station fire, pyrotechnics, and concert safety - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg7pldk_zoA

    Interview starts around the 7:30 mark.
    KISS also used the SNF to go on CNN and talk about "following the letter of the law." They said, "We always make sure that we talk with the fire marshals and the fire department of every local town." What they didn't say is that when a local fire marshal forbade them to use pyro at a show in '99, THEY IGNITED ALL OF THEIR PYRO AT ONCE at the end of the show. Gene and Paul are more smug and washed up than JR. (Ace is cool though - gotta love Ace ).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EFBMyalV7U&t=17s

  40. #1590
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    Matt Dussault and Kristen McQuarrie (D):

    Dussault said he was with his girlfriend, Kristen McQuarrie, and that she'd taken a series of pre-GW photos with her 35 mm Nikon One-Touch Zoom Camera. In BB's pre-show we see him holding what appears to be that camera. (It’s covered up in that collage.). He said he grabbed the camera before finally fleeing to the kitchen door. He said that McQuarrie had been right behind him but that she didn't make it out. He may be the man that Chris Stewart, of the Warwick Police, noted, who was shouting obscenities about losing his girlfriend--and who was getting a ride home with his mother. Matthew Dussault said his mother came and picked him up at a Dunkin’ Donuts 3,4 blocks east of the disaster. Kristen's car was still in the parking lot.

    Some weeks after the fire, Dussault turned the camera and its contents over to the police. You can see all 11 photos on Drive: MDKM.jpg -OR- (c)03-366-PR. Some look like they were taken from a vantage point very much like McQuarrie's at the soundboard.

    The memorialized photo of McQuarrie was possibly a high school graduation photo. But she was 20 years older at the time of the fire. And she hadn’t had an easy life.

    Witness statements-you know they’re my favorite thing-are so great for giving us the actual locations people took in the club before the fire hit the fan. I’m wondering if some folks have trouble navigating the RIAG materials, because it can become a bit of a labyrinth. And time-sucking.

    I’ve had troubles posting photos; I’d be dangerous if I ever learned to do that.
    Last edited by billoween; 11-06-2020 at 09:34 PM.

  41. #1591
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    SURVIVOR PARADOXES

    1.) If you couldn't break free from the pile-up at the front, you were almost better off being at the very bottom of the stack. That way, at least, you had the many bodies above you serving as a heat shield.....sadly.

    Many survivors of the front pile--including Gina Russo, Gina Gauvin, Joe Kinan, Dave Malagrino, Donovan Williams, Mike Vargas, Brandon Fravala, and John Van Deusen--were at the very bottom of the pile; in fact, the majority were on the tile and slate floor itself. (All those, except for Fravala, got pulled out late by fire fighters.)


    2.) While escaping the burning club, it appears to have been nearly impossible to hold hands with anyone for very long. Your hands were soon needed elsewhere. Like for covering your face from smoke and heat. And for protecting yourself from colliding with others in the zero-visibility conditions. You also might need your hands free so as to get down low and crawl on all-fours.


    3.) The air down at floor level was vastly better than anywhere else, but if you stayed down too low you were even more vulnerable to getting trampled and trapped.


    4.) Survivors had to smash windows and open doors to get out. But they couldn't break out in that way without also feeding the fire oxygen, and thereby making it all the more ferocious.


    5.) While the snow on the ground provided great immediate relief to the many burn victims, it also increased the severity of their skin infections.


    6.) If you were in the fire, you're not likely to be actively pursuing more information about it.

    Example: Brandon Fravala, who I know, barely got out the main doors. He's told me several times that I know more about the fire than he does. Sure, he knows his story and the stories of his friends because that was his first-person experience; a first-hand nightmare he still feels in his body and mind. But since he still battles PTSD, he's not about to study the Butler video or read witness statements. It'd be too easy for him to slide back into vivid nightmares and the other throes of his post-traumatic stress.

    I've told Brandon that I wouldn't be capable of researching this tragedy at all if I'd actually been in it. And if you notice, it's not like this thread is packed with survivors clamoring to participate in the discussion.

  42. #1592
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    SURVIVOR PARADOXES
    I've told Brandon that I wouldn't be capable of researching this tragedy at all if I'd actually been in it. And if you notice, it's not like this thread is packed with survivors clamoring to participate in the discussion.
    I don't think anyone who survived would feel comfortable posting in a forum named "findadeath" but that's just me.

  43. #1593
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    My copy of Trial By Fire arrived last night.

    How did I miss this? Jeff and Mike Derderians' middle brother, Robert Gregory Derderian, died in 2015. He was only 52 !!!
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...t-g.-derderian
    Note the quote on the front: "Gone, but the marks remain."

    He is buried with his mother (whose exact date of death was missing from the Social Security Death Index) but NOT his father. Perhaps because of Archie's second wife, Karen.

  44. #1594
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    My copy of Trial By Fire arrived last night.

    How did I miss this? Jeff and Mike Derderians' middle brother, Robert Gregory Derderian, died in 2015. He was only 52 !!!
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...t-g.-derderian

    Yup, it's discussed in the new book as well- apparently, he had heart problems. I'm almost done with it myself, about halfway through the Afterword. I've got to say, it's pretty interesting to get a completely different perspective on this whole thing.
    Note the quote on the front: "Gone, but the marks remain."

    He is buried with his mother (whose exact date of death was missing from the Social Security Death Index) but NOT his father. Perhaps because of Archie's second wife, Karen.

  45. #1595
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    Hi everyone, i am new to this thread and i was curious about two photos

    In the part 2 video of decoding nightclub disasters there are two pictures of flames coming out the front door that i don't think anyone has posted about

    I have two screenshots of them hereClick image for larger version. 

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    Does anybody know where they came from and who took them, I can't find them anywhere on google drive The video i'm talking about is here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1F...ew?usp=sharing around 7 minutes in

    Thanks
    Last edited by astronauthen96; 11-14-2020 at 08:39 AM.

  46. #1596
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    Hi Astro, welcome to the forum, I am guessing news crew as they got the call right away and Brian Butler was out the door and still filming, so it could have been from News Crew, or Brian Butler.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  47. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by astronauthen96 View Post
    Hi everyone, i am new to this thread and i was curious about two photos

    In the part 2 video of decoding nightclub disasters there are two pictures of flames coming out the front door that i don't think anyone has posted about

    I have two screenshots of them hereClick image for larger version. 

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    Does anybody know where they came from and who took them, I can't find them anywhere on google drive The video i'm talking about is here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1F...ew?usp=sharing around 7 minutes in

    Thanks
    It looks like these were taken around the time Butler was going around to the side of the building (when he yelled into the stage exit if anybody was inside).

  48. #1598
    Yeah that's definitely around the time Butler was at the back of the building (or just coming around to the front), and it's way too early for news crews to have arrived, so this must've been taken by an escaped concertgoer (or passerby, though it doesn't seem like there'd be too many at that time of the night).

  49. #1599
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    Yeah I am thinking it could be from Butler. I doubt anyone would think to get their phones out and record, as they were in shock and looking for loved ones and friends, contacting whomever letting them know what is going on. Now if it happened this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people were standing there with phones out recording.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  50. #1600
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    Pkstracy, I think you misunderstood other posters — pics aren’t from Butler, they don’t match his footage and he only recorded the one piece of footage that we have. Best bet is that they were taken by a concert-goer who had a camera — but not with a camera phone — remember, this was ‘03. There’s a chance if I was there I would have taken pictures and/or video. Footage is invaluable to investigations and I’d imagine that’s exactly why photos and video of the event exist (bar Butler’s whose was incidental). Very interesting pics — hadn’t seen these or the documentary.

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