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Thread: Station Nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island 2

  1. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by astronauthen96 View Post
    Does anybody know where they came from and who took them, I can't find them anywhere on google drive The video i'm talking about is here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1F...ew?usp=sharing around 7 minutes in

    Thanks
    Good find Astronaut. You're right, these two photos from this documentary don't look like any photos included on the Google Drive. The earlier photo appears to capture the terrible moment when fire is just starting to erupt from the front door. As far as I know, no other photos or video capture this moment, so it is significant. It's also notable that a fire truck has just arrived by this point. You can hear the sirens arriving in Butler's video when he was behind the club, so this picture was taken right about then.

  2. #1602
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    Thanks everyone, also another thing i noticed in the butler video (the red time stamp version) during the two minute stamp when butler turns to the front doorway if you look to the right stairway there's a man climbing up to help people out and it looks his shirt might say "event security" on the back and it almost looks like scott Vieria, do you think it could be him?

    We also see him in the parking lot at the 10:35 mark

  3. 11-15-2020, 06:09 PM

  4. #1603
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    Iím sure this has been addressed but has anyone ever actually asked WPRI for the footage?

  5. #1604
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpowers7 View Post
    I’m sure this has been addressed but has anyone ever actually asked WPRI for the footage?
    Yup, I emailed them earlier this year. Here's what I asked them:

    "Regarding the Station Nightclub Fire on February 2003, how much are the licensing fees for the original footage taken by Brian Butler of the fire if we plan on using it for a documentary?"

    …and got this as a response:

    "WPRI/WNAC TV does not release this footage."

  6. #1605
    Quote Originally Posted by pcwhiz24 View Post
    Yup, I emailed them earlier this year. Here's what I asked them:

    "Regarding the Station Nightclub Fire on February 2003, how much are the licensing fees for the original footage taken by Brian Butler of the fire if we plan on using it for a documentary?"

    …and got this as a response:

    "WPRI/WNAC TV does not release this footage."
    Uhh, what? Clearly they do release the footage since it's used in plenty of news reports, the Guest List documentary, etc. What are they talking about here? I guess maybe if you appear to be a random individual inquiring about it they shoot you down. But for sure a legit news organization, documentary film company, etc. would be able to get their hands on specific parts of it for a licensing fee.

  7. #1606
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Uhh, what? Clearly they do release the footage since it's used in plenty of news reports, the Guest List documentary, etc. What are they talking about here? I guess maybe if you appear to be a random individual inquiring about it they shoot you down. But for sure a legit news organization, documentary film company, etc. would be able to get their hands on specific parts of it for a licensing fee.
    This makes no sense to me. The unedited version has already been released and can be viewed on several social media platforms. There has to be a law fair use or something where others can have access. Why allow us to all see the unedited but prevent the edited? You are so right because there was a fire in a club in a Brazil I believe a couple years ago and they showed the pile up at the door and it was super clear.

  8. #1607
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    Crazy. I emailed them before I posted my post. I should tell them Iím making a documentary and see what they say. Idk, this tragedy is one that sticks with me and I just want to see a clear video that shows what happened. I canít explain it, Iím not into gore I just literally want to see what happened

  9. #1608
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    Someone asked me a while back to try and clear up the footage from before the fire and I tried but itís not much better. I gave up lol. Itís just such terrible quality to deal with and try to fix

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/crpliondnt...eo%29.mov?dl=0

  10. #1609
    In my opinion, part of the $30 million Butler settlement should've included the full public release of all footage he filmed that night.

    It's ridiculous how they hold on to it and refuse to release it. Just imagine if you couldn't find reasonable quality videos of 9/11 or some other major event because the news organizations that filmed it refused to release it, what a ridiculous idea.

    And yet WPRI keeps this footage tightly locked. Why? It's not like they're likely to lose any money by releasing it - the average person wouldn't pay anything to watch that footage anyway, and any legitimate news channel, documentary company, etc. is going to do it the legal way and pay licensing fees even if it was publicly available, to avoid getting sued. I just don't get it...

  11. #1610
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpowers7 View Post
    Someone asked me a while back to try and clear up the footage from before the fire and I tried but itís not much better. I gave up lol. Itís just such terrible quality to deal with and try to fix

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/crpliondnt...eo%29.mov?dl=0
    Even seeing color is an improvement. The available videos have been cropped and "squished" too. I don't think it's possible, with conventional software, to turn the bottom frame into the top frame in this comparison:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    AI could go a long way though. The YT channel Neural Networks and Deep Learning, among others, uses AI to enhance videos. Here's a super clear video of JFK in '63: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPv6BkxFFsk Most AI-enhanced videos from the 1910s on are better quality than the SNF videos. Perhaps if enough of us ask them to use AI on the SNF videos...
    Last edited by airyaerie; 11-19-2020 at 07:45 AM. Reason: I was foolish/this site is also foolish

  12. #1611
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    In my opinion, part of the $30 million Butler settlement should've included the full public release of all footage he filmed that night.

    It's ridiculous how they hold on to it and refuse to release it. Just imagine if you couldn't find reasonable quality videos of 9/11 or some other major event because the news organizations that filmed it refused to release it, what a ridiculous idea.

    And yet WPRI keeps this footage tightly locked. Why? It's not like they're likely to lose any money by releasing it - the average person wouldn't pay anything to watch that footage anyway, and any legitimate news channel, documentary company, etc. is going to do it the legal way and pay licensing fees even if it was publicly available, to avoid getting sued. I just don't get it...
    Maybe it was part of a court settlement he not release it, just like the Christine suicide video, it's locked away to never be released due to perhaps to lower the risk of family members seeing it, I mean it's bad enough they might stumble on the preshow footage and the fire that is out, heck look what Nikki Catsouras family has to deal with, with their daughter's car accident and dead body online, if it was my family member in any video like that I would fight to take it down and would not want to see it myself, before you say well they don't have to search for it, in the case of Nikki's family it was getting sent to them in emails and texts.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  13. #1612
    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    Maybe it was part of a court settlement he not release it, just like the Christine suicide video, it's locked away to never be released due to perhaps to lower the risk of family members seeing it, I mean it's bad enough they might stumble on the preshow footage and the fire that is out, heck look what Nikki Catsouras family has to deal with, with their daughter's car accident and dead body online, if it was my family member in any video like that I would fight to take it down and would not want to see it myself, before you say well they don't have to search for it, in the case of Nikki's family it was getting sent to them in emails and texts.
    I don't think that's the case. Snippets of the footage are used in various news reports and in the upcoming Guest List documentary, so they're still definitely allowing it to get out, just only small pieces at a time for a (probably) exorbitant licensing fee. And if I remember correctly, the low quality versions we have circulating online stem from a DVD version that was originally released with some material from the Rhode Island Attorney General's office back in the day, or something like that. So there was definitely no court decision that the footage should be banned. It's just WPRI keeping it for (probably) financial reasons or something along those lines.

    While I totally sympathize with not wanting family members to accidentally be exposed to it, I don't think it's at all the same situation as the car accident scenario you mentioned above, as the Station fire video is quite long and features hundreds of people rather than an incident focused on one specific person, in that sense I would definitely compare it more to 9/11 footage (or the Indian Ocean/Japanese tsunamis, etc)... a major public incident affecting a tremendous amount of people with many important public safety lessons to be learned from it.

  14. #1613
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    I get what you are saying but the news station are the owners of that and maybe the families asked that it not be all out there, I mean I hate watching footage of the 9/11 because my uncle died in that, and it was someone's home video, there is a brief snippet of him going into the building and moments later it came down, the person gave my aunt their copy and I don't know what she did with it, but it's not online, but if it were, my aunt would have done anything to get it taken down.
    No More Stolen Sisters.

  15. #1614
    Sorry to hear about your uncle. I imagine I would want that tape kept offline as well if I were in that situation too.

    I doubt the news station factored those sorts of things into their decisions on releasing the footage though. There are numerous snippets within news reports of clear shots of people piled in the doorway, trying to exit the club, etc. so anyone could be exposed to that on the news and even see a person they specifically know, even many years later. Not to mention that, by its very nature, the news covers many tragic events that would be very triggering and upsetting to people who were involved. So I would be very surprised if the lack of release has anything to do with that, I really think it's just a copyright/financial thing.

    Personally I think when it comes to more personal stuff, like the Medical Examiner's photos of the bodies or whatever, things like that definitely shouldn't be released unless the families specifically want it. Even the Pickett tape, as curious as most people here are about it, I completely understand and respect why it's been kept private.

    But I really believe the original Butler tape is of enough significance and public importance that it should be accessible in its best possible form for those who are interested in seeing it.

  16. #1615
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    Hi all and welcome new folks.

    Bulletin: new documentary on the Colectiv Nightclub Fire (Romanian with subtitles) just out, and it got a stellar review in the New York Times. Running time: 1:49. Supposed to be available ďon iTunes, Google Play, and other streaming platforms.Ē
    That fire occurred the night of 10/30/15.
    The documentary is called ďCollective.Ē

  17. #1616
    Great find, Billoween! I'd never heard of this documentary before but will definitely check it out.

    Trailer can be seen here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI35s5gyTm8

  18. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Yeah that's definitely around the time Butler was at the back of the building (or just coming around to the front), and it's way too early for news crews to have arrived, so this must've been taken by an escaped concertgoer (or passerby, though it doesn't seem like there'd be too many at that time of the night).
    This is crazy what happened.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  19. #1618
    Well I ended up watching the Collective documentary this evening and it was very interesting. It focused almost entirely on the legal and political aftermath of the event, in particular the corruption in the healthcare system that resulted in 37 of the 64 deaths occurring in hospitals in weeks/months that followed the fire, quite a stark contrast to the Station where almost all the deaths were in the club on the night of the event. It was very interesting watching the journalists investigate and put the pieces together, made me think of what it must've been like for John Barylick and his team when they were doing their investigations.

    There was also about a minute of very haunting footage from inside the club as the fire first erupted, taken from two different camera angles that I have not seen anywhere online.

    In particular there are a couple things in that are very clear in that footage which we don't really see in the Station fire video but we know it happened there too - the intense rain of melting foam coming down from the ceiling, and the wave of fire suddenly rolling across the ceiling and igniting it and the ensuing panic and attempt to leave the building by the crowd.

    This is intensified by the fact that the footage is taken from people still well inside the club as conditions become apocalyptic, and not a cameraman who escaped just as things were starting to get bad. I don't know who took those videos or what their status is but one angle was taken from the soundboard at the very back of the room and high up, and the other was someone fairly far back in the crowd, nowhere near the front of the lineup to get out the one working door in that venue. So it's quite possible/likely that the people who took that footage didn't survive. Very chilling stuff.

    Really makes you wonder what kind of footage we'd have from the Station fire if it had happened during the era of camera phones...


    Edit: turns out the footage used in the documentary actually is online (without the English subtitles, though): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96DAFllyTJo

  20. #1619
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    i'm kinda creeped out here because i was just coming to post the same youtube video you just did, subartican!!!

    blew me away how fast the fire spread across the ceiling. amazing! helps to understand how you need to get out within the first minute or two.

  21. #1620
    Indeed, that wave of fire rolling across the ceiling is terrifying, as is all the molten foam raining down. If Brian Butler had been in the Station a little while longer we probably would've seen something similar on that video.

    And I think this fire went out of control even faster than the Station, the entire ceiling becomes engulfed in less than 30 seconds after ignition. And that firestorm near the end of the clip is one of the most terrifying things I've ever seen!

    I know at the Station some of the early escapees struggled with getting the bar room door open until someone broke a window, due to the fire sucking up the fresh air, and that the breaking of windows certainly fed the fire but were there any reports of a mini firestorm with a ton of wind inside the Station like there was at Colectiv? The amount of wind at the end of that video is unreal and seeing the light from the fire get brighter and brighter as it's fed by fresh air from outside is so unbelievably creepy!

    Also the youtube clip doesn't have the English subtitles from the documentary, so here they are:

    0:41 - "Cheers!"
    0:45 - "To all of us"
    0:47 - "Thank you very much for being here tonight"
    0:50 - "Something's on fire here"
    0:56 - "That's not part of the show"
    1:03 - "Is there a fire extinguisher?"

  22. #1621
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    I spoke with my mother last week. The parents moved back to RI from FL last year. They had been old acquaintances of the Derderian family since the late 1960s. The Ds were above our station, but the population of the state was so tiny that it barely mattered. I asked Mom if she knew about Robert D's death. Yes, she did. I guess she hadn't considered it newsworthy enough to tell me.

    She confirmed that Joan, mother of the three brothers, died of heart failure as reported in Trial By Fire. I was barely four when that happened. I thought she'd died of cancer. I think my mis-remembering is due to an old photograph of her that we had when I was little. Her head was wrapped in a blue bandanna, hiding the hair. To me, it looked like a chemotherapy victim. I don't know whether she smoked or not. Archie did, as did seemingly half of adults back then.

    Archie's new girlfriend moved in with her baby boy (Archie was NOT the bio father- they were different ethnicities!) Archie called her Susan. Her name was Karen. She did not call herself Susan nor did anyone else. He called the baby Joey. His name was David.

    I'd assumed the weird nickname thing was just an Archie quirk until, decades later, I heard about Dave Stone working at the Station. (He was married to my cousin at the time.) My Dad said, "They call him Scooter." Meaning Mike & Jeff D.
    After the fire, I read an article referring to Mike's first wife as Judi "Heather" Derderian. Yup, 'cause we all know that Heather is the common nickname for Judi. Ha. That gave me further evidence that the sons continued the nickname thing.

    I asked Mom what she thought, since Scooter is more of an actual nickname than Susan, Joey and Heather. A "Derderian nickname" for Dave would be more like Jason, wouldn't it? She said that she thought Scooter was indeed a "Derderian nickname."

    I'm stumped by the name of Sam/Jake Derderian, one of Jeff's 22-year-old twin sons. He was called Sam when he was a baby. I found that hilarious when I heard, because the Derderians had a horse of a dog named Sam when I was a tiny little girl. He was half Irish Wolfhound, half Great Dane if memory serves.

    Sam/Jake's brother, Max, was the small-time child actor. But even Sam/Jake got a small billing under the name Jake Derderian in a local RI web series that his mother and brother also took part in c. 2012. You can find them on IMDb.com.
    His profile from Cornell University has the name Jake Raymond Derderian: https://cornellbigred.com/sports/foo...erderian/53897
    Doesn't really flow as a name that a mother would choose for her child. Jacob Raymond and Samuel Raymond do.
    Last edited by RodentLady; 11-25-2020 at 09:22 AM. Reason: typos

  23. #1622
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    Something interesting (to me at least): The walk in cooler was pretty much left untouched by the fire. See in the top left corner (when facing the front of the building). 10 people died outside/around the door. It's a pity they didn't or couldn't find the door and hide inside (like the Cocoanut Grove fire).
    Click image for larger version. 

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