Tragic Life and Death of Steven Stayner

[magblax]

Panda's thread on parents of murderers reminded me of the Steven Stayner case and his parents. The Stayners were not only parents to a child who was the victim of a kidnapping (Steven) but also of the Yosemite serial killer (Cary Stayner).
Steven was kidnapped at 7 years old (12/4/72) by a child molester who he lived with for 7 years. He was discovered by police and gave this statement:
"My name is Steven Stainer. I am fourteen years of age. I don't know my true birthdate,
but I use April 18, 1965. I know my first name is Steven, I'm pretty sure my last is Stainer,
and if I have a middle name, I don't know it."
He returned home to his parents in 1980. Tragically he was killed in 1989 in a motorcycle accident on his way home from work (worked at a Pizza Hut).
In 1999 Steven's brother Cary Stayner was convicted of the Yosemite murders. People say his problems were rooted to the tragedy the family suffered due to Seven's ordeal.
Wonder how the parents are doing?

[Kathyf]

That was a horrible story. The movie they made was great. I don't know how I would have handled it. That poor kid really had a shilt life. Then to be killed and the problems his brother had.

[Irishlass]

Panda's thread on parents of murderers reminded me of the Steven Stayner case and his parents. The Stayners were not only parents to a child who was the victim of a kidnapping (Steven) but also of the Yosemite serial killer (Cary Stayner).
Steven was kidnapped at 7 years old (12/4/72) by a child molester who he lived with for 7 years. He was discovered by police and gave this statement:
"My name is Steven Stainer. I am fourteen years of age. I don't know my true birthdate,
but I use April 18, 1965. I know my first name is Steven, I'm pretty sure my last is Stainer,
and if I have a middle name, I don't know it."
He returned home to his parents in 1980. Tragically he was killed in 1989 in a motorcycle accident on his way home from work (worked at a Pizza Hut).
In 1999 Steven's brother Cary Stayner was convicted of the Yosemite murders. People say his problems were rooted to the tragedy the family suffered due to Seven's ordeal.
Wonder how the parents are doing?

i thought i read the parents divorced

[Aries65]

Hard to believe that Kenneth Parnell - Steven's kidnapper barely got any time at all for the crime. A few years ago, altho he was old, sick and in a wheelchair, he tried to get someone to BUY a little boy for him. Luckily he asked the wrong person and ended up getting busted and sent to prison for it. Justice served - finally?

If you really want your stomach to turn, read the book, "I Know My First Name is Steven" - which tells all about his ordeal. The stuff that was done to him, ugh... The movie was a "fairy tale" in comparison...

[Keyser Soze]

I cannot even imagine. Their poor mother, ugh.

[Kathyf]

Hard to believe that Kenneth Parnell - Steven's kidnapper barely got any time at all for the crime. A few years ago, altho he was old, sick and in a wheelchair, he tried to get someone to BUY a little boy for him. Luckily he asked the wrong person and ended up getting busted and sent to prison for it. Justice served - finally?

If you really want your stomach to turn, read the book, "I Know My First Name is Steven" - which tells all about his ordeal. The stuff that was done to him, ugh... The movie was a "fairy tale" in comparison...

I will have to check that I never realized there was a book.

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Panda's thread on parents of murderers reminded me of the Steven Stayner case and his parents. The Stayners were not only parents to a child who was the victim of a kidnapping (Steven) but also of the Yosemite serial killer (Cary Stayner).

In 1999 Steven's brother Cary Stayner was convicted of the Yosemite murders. People say his problems were rooted to the tragedy the family suffered due to Seven's ordeal.
Wonder how the parents are doing?

Thanks for this thread, it's a fascinating story overall.

I guess the kidnapping of one's brother over 25 years previously "compels" one to butcher a mother, her daughter and a teenage friend vacationing at Yosemite in 1999, and burn their bodies in the trunk of their own car.
After which, perhaps not quite over the absolute horror of this quarter-century-prior-event, brother Cary went on to behead a young female park ranger.

If this is a cause-and-effect issue, what about the millions of other abused children and young adults in the world who don't react by incorporating extraordinary acts of violence into their daily routines as adults...??

Just wondering, as I've heard this "Cary was traumatized by Stephen's kidnapping and was jealous of all the attention he got because of it" scenario previously, and I personally think it's absolute bullshit, and anyone who buys into it is hopelessly naive.

[Aries65]

From what I've read about Cary, his murderous fantasies go back to when he was a kid. I wouldn't be surprised if he's killed others along the way - and gotten away with it.

I read something about a member of the family that "mysteriously" died - and now they wonder if Cary had anything to do with it. Altho he was a teenager when it had happened.

[Daphne]

Ugh, I am and have been close to this story based on my proximity and distant business type friendship to one of the families, hence to the murders.. in fact was backpacking in Yosemite when they found the victims.. Carrie was a sick man, from the time he was small, and Steven, bless his heart, was kidnapped and in a situation he was too young to deal with until he was a teen and another young lad was brought into the nightmare. Sadly, from what I understand, he was treated differently than his siblings when he returned home, ultimately (along with guild) leading to Carrie's whack ideas and murders, and his demise.

[malaki]

The Lifetime movie was very good, anyone else see this????? "I Know My First Name is Stephen"

[Aries65]

The Lifetime movie was very good, anyone else see this????? "I Know My First Name is Stephen"

Yeah, I've seen it. Great movie - almost 4 hours long! (it was shown over 2 nights).

[NOVSTORM]

I am sure tht since he was a kid when his brother was kidnapped it affected him. I read the book,saw the movie on Steve. THe mother got Xmas presents every year and saved them for him, she would never say he was dead. I am sure their was anger in his brothter about the whole situation and contributed to his behaviour in later years but I can't put the whole blame on what happened. Something went wrong somewhere for sure but I doubt if any one will be able to explain why he did what he did. I often wonder if all that anger was directed towards his mother who changed so drastically after Steven was kidnapped? He only killed women. The whole world changed for Cary. Everything was Steven and from what I read things had changed so drastically on the way that they lived that it may have screwed this kid up royally. It really doesn't matter anymore because Cary is where he belongs.

[magblax]

They modified the re-release of "I Know My First Name Is Steven" to include info on the murders. This guy was twisted and disturbed. Remember Joie Armstrong? The hiker that was found beheaded?

"A park employee had noticed a blue and white 1979 International Scout parked near Armstrong's house the night of her death, and police had issued a be-on-the-lookout alert for the vehicle. On the afternoon of July 22, two rangers spotted the Scout, parked on the shoulder of California 140 in the Merced River Canyon, about 12 miles from the western entrance of the park. Descending to the rocky riverbank, one of the rangers, accompanied by a Mariposa County detective, came upon a handsome, solidly built man smoking a joint and sunbathing in the nude. He calmly identified himself as Cary Stayner and said he was employed as a handyman at the Cedar Lodge. The officers confiscated his marijuana and let him go. But shortly after that encounter, FBI investigators compared tire tracks at the crime scene with photographs of Stayner's treadsâ??and got a perfect match. Two days later, the handyman was eating lunch at Laguna Del Sol, a "clothing optional" resort near Sacramento, when the cops took him into custody, drove him to Sacramento, and booked him on suspicion of murder. Stayner, 38, confessed to the murder of Joie Ruth Armstrong and then dropped a bombshell: He had also abducted and murdered Carole and Juli Sund and Silvina Pelosso. He told the FBI that he had fantasized about hurting women since he was a child and that he had been unable to stop his compulsion to kill."

outside.away.com/.../199911yosemiteprint.html

[Lisamarie]

Was this boy Steven kept as a sex slave ?? I have never read the book..I did know about the Yosemit park...but never the connection til now...This may sound like a stupid question..but when these boys like that shawn horblack kid or this steve guy are they taken for sexual reasons?? And if so..I wonder how it gets to the point of I guess.... being raped again and again to being there of your own free will?? Like when do they fall into living together ??

[magblax]

Was this boy Steven kept as a sex slave ?? I have never read the book..I did know about the Yosemit park...but never the connection til now...This may sound like a stupid question..but when these boys like that shawn horblack kid or this steve guy are they taken for sexual reasons?? And if so..I wonder how it gets to the point of I guess.... being raped again and again to being there of your own free will?? Like when do they fall into living together ??

He was kidnapped at 7 years old and held for seven years by a sick old pervert who got bored of him when he reached puberty...so he went a kidnapped another young boy (5 year old Timmy White). When Timmy entered into the picture it motivated Steven to escape and find help.
Timmy helped carry Steven's coffin at his funeral. He was 14 by then...TRAGIC!

[Lisamarie]

Thats just awful! Poor kid!

[Ghoulie Girl]

That poor family.
That is a lot of crap for one family to deal with.

[SheBoss]

Thanks for this thread, it's a fascinating story overall.

I guess the kidnapping of one's brother over 25 years previously "compels" one to butcher a mother, her daughter and a teenage friend vacationing at Yosemite in 1999, and burn their bodies in the trunk of their own car.
After which, perhaps not quite over the absolute horror of this quarter-century-prior-event, brother Cary went on to behead a young female park ranger.

If this is a cause-and-effect issue, what about the millions of other abused children and young adults in the world who don't react by incorporating extraordinary acts of violence into their daily routines as adults...??

Just wondering, as I've heard this "Cary was traumatized by Stephen's kidnapping and was jealous of all the attention he got because of it" scenario previously, and I personally think it's absolute bullshit, and anyone who buys into it is hopelessly naive.

Right on, Jack! You tell it!

[RaRaRamona]

I agree that his was a sicko & it wasn't b/c his brother was kidnapped. How horrible!

I did love the movie when I was little. I was small enough I didn't realize he was with a ped, and when I asked my mom she told em some thing like the man wanted Steven to clean his house for him. LOL She probably didn't know I had watched the movie until I asked that.

[RaRaRamona]

Panda's thread on parents of murderers reminded me of the Steven Stayner case and his parents.

Where is this thread? I'm interested in seeing if the mother of Baylee Almon is listed. If not she's needs a thread.

[Mamma]

I'm late coming into this thread, but I remember from watching American Justice that Cary had problems like this since he was very young. Of course he being so young, on top of being so young when Steven was abducted, only made the problems worse. That particular program was very interesting, as Cary had female cousins who were interviewed for the program. They caught Cary being a "Peeping Tom" on them in the bathroom. He was a teenager so old enough to know better.

I can only speculate that Cary's problems existed before Stevie disappeared, and were made worse during the years without (and with) his brother. Stevies untimely death may have sealed the final fate with Cary's emotional instability, although Cary had these violent fantasies all throughout his youth. Talk about needing to give the Stayner parents a break.

I'm with the member upthread ~ this is just too much for one set of parents to deal with. No one asks for their child to be kidnapped and molested, and no one asks for their child to grow up a sociopath. They have been through so much, that I can't help but feel for them as parents . However, if someone were able to prove to me that they were awful, abusing, satanic sacrificing parents, I would gladly change my mind of course. But by all accounts, they are Mom and Mop, USA., and didn't deserve such fate. Sad.

And the victims of Cary Stayner sure as hell didn't deserve such a fate, agreed.

[geekygirl]

Thanks for this thread, it's a fascinating story overall.

I guess the kidnapping of one's brother over 25 years previously "compels" one to butcher a mother, her daughter and a teenage friend vacationing at Yosemite in 1999, and burn their bodies in the trunk of their own car.
After which, perhaps not quite over the absolute horror of this quarter-century-prior-event, brother Cary went on to behead a young female park ranger.

If this is a cause-and-effect issue, what about the millions of other abused children and young adults in the world who don't react by incorporating extraordinary acts of violence into their daily routines as adults...??

Just wondering, as I've heard this "Cary was traumatized by Stephen's kidnapping and was jealous of all the attention he got because of it" scenario previously, and I personally think it's absolute bullshit, and anyone who buys into it is hopelessly naive.

This is a good point, Jack. I asked my husband, who is a Licensed Marriage and Family counselor why some people have horrific backgrounds but it doesn'seem to bother them and they turn out as model citizens. Then there are others who had a perfect, leave-it-to-beaver childhood who end up becoming ax murderers. The long and the short of it is this is still a great mystery. It seems that many of the folks who turned out "normal" (whatever that is) had at least one person in their lives that they felt loved them unconditionally. But the jury is still out on this one. If you ever want to read something sad and a classic example of someone being born bad, wiki Charles Manson. No one would take credit for being the father of him when he was born, and his alcoholic mother actually sold him to someone for a pitcher of beer when he was very little. Manson is a wacko no doubt and needs to be locked up forever, but how sad. I guess it's because I have two little boys and can't imagine neglecting and abusing them like Manson's Mother did.

Ugh, Carey Stayner. We were actually staying in Yosemite between the time the Sund murders were carried out and the park ranger was killed. Believe it or not, we were also staying at the Cedar Lodge where the Sund murders took place.. We had trouble with the key not working so they sent a handyman. Not Stayer, damn were we lucky. By the time we got home and heard the news that Stayner was captured, I had started a scrapbook of our vacation. In several pictures, Stayner's truck is in the background.

I know it's legal protocol and everything, but I was a little mad when they went to trilal first with the Armstrong case because it was a federal offense to kill a national park employee. They had more than enough evidence to convict him on any one of the victims, but I guess they feld a federal penalty might be more stiff. Can't remember if the Carringon-Sund families even went through a trial. I think they were able to have the documents regarding their loved ones sealed in order to protect the dignity of the victims, or worse, people selling them or writing a book and making money on them. They started a non-profit for families of people who have gone missing.

[magblax]

HA! Looks like the old pervert that kidnapped Steven is finally rotting in hell. He died in prison on Monday...

http://www.modbee.com/local/pmupdates/story/187969.html

"Kenneth Eugene Parnell, 76, became one of the most notorious kidnappers of the century after he was turned in by the Merced boy. Stayner's amazing fortitude when he led another kidnap victim to authorities and to his own rescue after missing for eight years made him a celebrated hero.
Parnell, who died of natural causes, according to the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, was serving 25 years to life after he tried to persuade a caregiver to buy a 4-year-old boy for him for $500. He was a convicted sex offender."

[RaRaRamona]

He only got eleven years for taking two boys - he lived too long if you ask me.

[magblax]

He only got eleven years for taking two boys - he lived too long if you ask me.

I agree they should have at least castrated him after he was arrested for kidnapping Steven! What a waste.

[katspjs]

Thanks for this thread, it's a fascinating story overall.

I guess the kidnapping of one's brother over 25 years previously "compels" one to butcher a mother, her daughter and a teenage friend vacationing at Yosemite in 1999, and burn their bodies in the trunk of their own car.
After which, perhaps not quite over the absolute horror of this quarter-century-prior-event, brother Cary went on to behead a young female park ranger.

If this is a cause-and-effect issue, what about the millions of other abused children and young adults in the world who don't react by incorporating extraordinary acts of violence into their daily routines as adults...??

Just wondering, as I've heard this "Cary was traumatized by Stephen's kidnapping and was jealous of all the attention he got because of it" scenario previously, and I personally think it's absolute bullshit, and anyone who buys into it is hopelessly naive.

I completely agree that this is BS. My father grew up shuttled from foster home to foster home and was horribly abused until he was able to escape. Having never gotten help (it just was not done then), he still had his issues aplenty but he NEVER took anyone's life. The horrible things happened to HIM, not a family member, yet he did not commit atrocities. So I am with you, I don't buy the "secondary victim" defense.

[Finnegan]

Ugh, Carey Stayner. We were actually staying in Yosemite between the time the Sund murders were carried out and the park ranger was killed. Believe it or not, we were also staying at the Cedar Lodge where the Sund murders took place.. We had trouble with the key not working so they sent a handyman. Not Stayer, damn were we lucky. By the time we got home and heard the news that Stayner was captured, I had started a scrapbook of our vacation. In several pictures, Stayner's truck is in the background.

holy crap!!!

[Aries65]

HA! Looks like the old pervert that kidnapped Steven is finally rotting in hell. He died in prison on Monday...

http://www.modbee.com/local/pmupdates/story/187969.html

"Kenneth Eugene Parnell, 76, became one of the most notorious kidnappers of the century after he was turned in by the Merced boy. Stayner's amazing fortitude when he led another kidnap victim to authorities and to his own rescue after missing for eight years made him a celebrated hero.
Parnell, who died of natural causes, according to the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, was serving 25 years to life after he tried to persuade a caregiver to buy a 4-year-old boy for him for $500. He was a convicted sex offender."

I have to agree - he messed up a few lives and got to live a long life, while Stayner had his life all screwed up and died as a young man.

It's a wonder someone didn't take out that piece of shit 20 or so years earlier...

[endsleigh03]

Where is this thread? I'm interested in seeing if the mother of Baylee Almon is listed. If not she's needs a thread.

Weird, I just mentioned Baylee (I spelled her name wrong I think) in the "Death Penalty" thread....
What about her mother?

[Irishlass]

HA! Looks like the old pervert that kidnapped Steven is finally rotting in hell. He died in prison on Monday...

http://www.modbee.com/local/pmupdates/story/187969.html

"Kenneth Eugene Parnell, 76, became one of the most notorious kidnappers of the century after he was turned in by the Merced boy. Stayner's amazing fortitude when he led another kidnap victim to authorities and to his own rescue after missing for eight years made him a celebrated hero.
Parnell, who died of natural causes, according to the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, was serving 25 years to life after he tried to persuade a caregiver to buy a 4-year-old boy for him for $500. He was a convicted sex offender."

may he rot in hell

[geekygirl]

I completely agree that this is BS. My father grew up shuttled from foster home to foster home and was horribly abused until he was able to escape. Having never gotten help (it just was not done then), he still had his issues aplenty but he NEVER took anyone's life. The horrible things happened to HIM, not a family member, yet he did not commit atrocities. So I am with you, I don't buy the "secondary victim" defense.

Same with my Dad. His growing up years were hell and he was basically an indentured servant to some alcoholic relatives. But if you were to meet him today, you would never know it. Very friendly, happy and outgoing. One of those great mysteries of how well someone turned out in spite of their circumstances.

[RaRaRamona]

Weird, I just mentioned Baylee (I spelled her name wrong I think) in the "Death Penalty" thread....
What about her mother?

Here's what bothers me: every year since then she has thrown a full out birthday party for Baylee. She now has two or three other children & she still has parties for Baylee. I just think it's a rotten thing to do. She's done marvelous things in honor of her daughter but I hope she doesn't scar her living children with her grief. It's creepy - they all pretend she still there. I dunno, I just don't think it's a healthy way to deal with death.

[Seagorath]

http://www.politicalgroove.com/news/...dies-76-a.html

This site has some information on Parnell's death...and even has commentary from a fellow who claims he attended school with Stephen and Cary...This tragic tale has been with me since the 80's...will never forget that television movie.

[Guest]

my ex was forced to watch his step father molest his sister and other children in the neighborhood...he apparently never touched the ex but being forced to watch in and of itself is just as bad in my eyes

my ex was/is an insufferable human being..irresponsible, mean and violent and has ALWAYS used the excuse that it's because his mother didn't protect him and his sister, in her defense this was back in the days where many cops just looked the other way during a domestic..when she did leave she literally took them and their baby brother out of there with only the clothes on their backs and did so under police protection...his former step father is in prison for raping two teenage hitchhikers back in the 80's...so anyway....my ex will blame HIS MOTHER and not his abuser...I told him that that man still controls him even though he was out of his life by the age of 10..he's now 44 and refuses to get any type of counseling or therapy...its just so much easier to fuck up and blame others...now his sister on the other hand was raped by this man for many years...it started at the age 2 and ended when she was 8 years old...she is a loving, responsible..giving human being and an awesome parent...you would think being she bore the brunt of that mans abuse that they would be the opposite...I have to think upbringing is just a cog in the wheel....that many different things can affect how someone turns out

I remember when John Walsh talked about Steven's case and not too long after announced his death...so sad but I totally admire this kid...another example that just because you are abused doesn't mean you'll do the same thing...he saved Timmy Whites life!

[Seagorath]

Sorry to hear what happened to your ex...and I certainly hope he finds the "greatest peace" the world has to offer...

And YES I'm glad you brought that up about Steven...it often gets lost in all the other media garbage...He DID save Timmy Whites life, and that was a very, very wonderful thing. God Bless Steven!

I remember when John Walsh talked about Steven's case and not too long after announced his death...so sad but I totally admire this kid...another example that just because you are abused doesn't mean you'll do the same thing...he saved Timmy Whites life!

[Seagorath]

I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but check out this media photo of Stephen Stayner (at his 'return' press conference)...and look who's peeking over his shoulders in the background...pretty eerie...

[Aries65]

I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but check out this media photo of Stephen Stayner (at his 'return' press conference)...and look who's peeking over his shoulders in the background...pretty eerie...

Almost as if Carey is thinking, "Just you wait, one day I'LL have the cameras on ME!"

[Laura Castellano]

Dang, I have never been able to see that movie! I'll have to watch for it. I read the book and it was horrible, what that child went through. And yes, as I understand it, Cary had violent fantasies from when he was very young, even before Steven was kidnapped. I wonder if he would have acted on them if the family hadn't gone through such trauma over Steven, but we'll never know. I would so love to see Cary's brain scan, though!

[Snoopy]

I'm sorry.. I do feel awful for this family they have definately had way too much to bare for one family..but I will not hand Cary the "He's been through so much" sympathy card..can't do it..especially if he had those violent fantasies before Stephen was even kidnapped. and if you really want to focus on the boy who had been through so much..what about Stephen?..by all I know he was trying to live a good life..he wasn't going around killing women and beheading park rangers.

[Karma]

That is exactly the way I feel Snoopy. This family has endured tragedy but I just can't believe your brother's kidnapping and safe return turns you into a serial killer. Cary Stayner would have been who he is regardless of what happened to Steven. I have wondered how his parents have endured since all of this happened. It appears that they are pretty private people.

[bmull]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GxHoZnrdOQ◀ Back to results

[Nelliebean]

When Carey arrived at the prison to start his sentence, the first thing he did when he stepped out of the van was to whip his head around looking for the cameras.


What a loser.

[goldil]

and when I asked my mom she told em some thing like the man wanted Steven to clean his house for him.

Okay, that's kinda funny!

[JefeStone]

I really feel bad for Steven. We grew up in the same county, Merced. He was three years older than me. I remember when he was rescued. It was a big deal here. After the story died and he grew up, he couldn't settle into a normal life. Parnell let Steven drink and smoke before he was 10 years old. After his release he had issues with drug's and alcohol. Poor guy never had a chance. Those demons stayed with him till the end.

[SheBoss]

I know this is bad, but I wonder if Parnell said to himself - if the kid was still with me, he would still be here - when he found out Steven had been killed.

[JefeStone]

I know this is bad, but I wonder if Parnell said to himself - if the kid was still with me, he would still be here - when he found out Steven had been killed.

I might get flamed for this but a lot of the time victims of that kind of abuse turn from being a victim and turn into a abuser themselves. I'm not saying this would have happened in Stevens case but the damage done to abused children warps their young minds in ways we can't even understand.

[RaRaRamona]

I might get flamed for this but a lot of the time victims of that kind of abuse turn from being a victim and turn into a abuser themselves. I'm not saying this would have happened in Stevens case but the damage done to abused children warps their young minds in ways we can't even understand.

That's one of the horrible things about these cases. They never recover, even if they are found.
I actually thought his wreck may have been a blessing. A mercy death.

[lisalouver]

Here's what bothers me: every year since then she has thrown a full out birthday party for Baylee. She now has two or three other children & she still has parties for Baylee. I just think it's a rotten thing to do. She's done marvelous things in honor of her daughter but I hope she doesn't scar her living children with her grief. It's creepy - they all pretend she still there. I dunno, I just don't think it's a healthy way to deal with death.

I totally agree RaRa. My ex had a child who died in infancy of SIDS (although I tend to believe that the child was in an unsafe sleep enviroment and that is what caused the death). Anyway, he and his then wife had one older child and went on to have two more children after the baby died.

On the anniversary of the childs death, they would both take the day off from work and mourn. They could do nothing else on that day. This went on for years. Worse than that, the mother bought a birthday cake every year (I am sure she still does) and made her children celebrate the birthday and eat the cake.

For a sibling the eldest did not remember and the other two were not even born.

I am glad to hear that someone else agrees with me that having birthday parties for a dead child is not normal grief.

[Noor 7ayaty]

I totally agree RaRa. My ex had a child who died in infancy of SIDS (although I tend to believe that the child was in an unsafe sleep enviroment and that is what caused the death). Anyway, he and his then wife had one older child and went on to have two more children after the baby died.

On the anniversary of the childs death, they would both take the day off from work and mourn. They could do nothing else on that day. This went on for years. Worse than that, the mother bought a birthday cake every year (I am sure she still does) and made her children celebrate the birthday and eat the cake.

For a sibling the eldest did not remember and the other two were not even born.

I am glad to hear that someone else agrees with me that having birthday parties for a dead child is not normal grief.

Chime me in on that one with you. My ex was forced to do this, and not just birthdays -- all holidays, and when his brother would have graduated, etc. And the guy is seriously messed up. Majorly.

[annannanna]

Chime me in on that one with you. My ex was forced to do this, and not just birthdays -- all holidays, and when his brother would have graduated, etc. And the guy is seriously messed up. Majorly.

I totaly agree with that! My mom made us celebrate my brother's death for years!! I had it out with her when I was older and she brought a peice of cake to my job while I was working.