OMG, that's even funnier!
OMG, that's even funnier!
Renowned Death Hag
Here is a post from somebody on youtube...
"Women who are attracted to prisoners have a mental disorder - that is a well documented fact. They cannot handle a real relationship, and can pretend to have one this way. It's usually very unattractive or truly deranged women who cannot get attention any other way. We should pity this woman and hope she at least has a friend so she doesn't fall farther into this pit!"
seems a good enough explanation to me.
Death Hag
What the crap IS this crap? I dont see any explanation on why this person thinks he's innocent, just pictures upon pictures of Scott set to some weird techno song I can't place. I guess good looks equals not guilty?
"Death doesn't really worry me that much, I'm not frightened about it... I just don't want to be there when it happens."
By god...The AMAZING things this revelation will do for the justice system!Originally Posted by sordid1982
We should host a prisoner beauty pageant!
*/sarcasm*
Death Hag
Charles Manson wouldn't even get the booby prize!We should host a prisoner beauty pageant!
"Death doesn't really worry me that much, I'm not frightened about it... I just don't want to be there when it happens."
But he'd make one hell of a judge...
Renowned Death Hag
maybe Scott Peterson himself made this... perhaps criminals are given access to scanners, video editing software and the internet these days.
And one might argue that Death Hags have too much internet time on their hands?
At least we're not creating homages to convicted wife and baby killers.
Renowned Death Hag
so would this fall into a similar category as "writing a serial killer"?
is it better, worse... the same? thoughts?
Renowned Death Hag
Who would write to a Serial Killer.....
Renowned Death Hag
click on the link I posted... not saying it's good or bad, just asking if it's in the same category as somebody who makes a tribute video.Who would write to a Serial Killer.....
Scott Peterson is so smug, I just can't get past what he did to see his oh-so-fine-hotness.....
I think it would depend on the motivation of writing the serial killer. Seems like most of the people who said they would were curious, more than anything else.
hahhahahahahhahahah
hahhahhahahhahahahahhahahhahah!
Smacks of a cult if you ask me. Yule (Xmas) is one of their "holy" days, if you will, and look at when Laci was abducted.
Contrary to what you're told, these guys STILL do human sacrifice. I have an acquaintance whose father used to be involved in that--became a Christian before he died.
http://www.scottisinnocent.com
I'd take a look at that site first. The evidence points to the baby having already been born.
actually the evidence as presented by both sides indicates that baby had meconium in his airways which means he was NOT already born...based on FACTUAL postmortem examinations on her and on Conner his "birth" was the result of gases expelling him from her dead body...gases and decomposition caused his "birth"
she was not abducted by cultists or a UFO...she was killed by Scott and disposed of...what were the chances of her body being found where he went fishing? The frigid waters sustained her remains enough that by that time she did wash up there was some soft tissues left...make no mistake...there wasn't a perfect torso...another little known fact is that where he went to observe during the searches of the bay is very close to where she washed up...now I ask you all...if he had NOTHING to do with her disappearance or death...why would he not help search for her but go to watch the searches of all places...the San Francisco Bay where she was found!!! why not stay in Modesto and "watch" searches there? why not drive in to Fresno and watch them? why not drive the opposite direction of San Fran and watch? No...he went THERE because he knew she was THERE...you must all remember there was GPS on his vehicle and they documented his presence at that location more than once during the searches...but not at any of the other search areas...why?
I know one of the jurors and trust me...they had a hard hard time with this case...and no it is not one of the ones who's written a book or plans to...the entire case has disturbed them deeply...it was not easy for them to draw this conclusion..but yes...based on a lot of circumstantial evidence as well as some hard cold FACTS they concluded that he was responsible for her and Conner's deaths...yes the circumstantial did outweigh the hard facts...but fyi...this isn't TV and in most cases the circumstantial usually does outweigh what facts they can prove...there isn't always fingerprints..or blood...or a smoking gun...it's like a game of connect the dots...and in this case all the dots led back to one person Scott Peterson...not a cult...not Amber Frye...not a bushy haired stranger or someone in a van...just Scott...he's exactly where he needs to be
I do not know what was left of the fetus/baby. I do know that what is usually done to determine live birth in a fetus is a lung float test (hydrostatic test) in which the lungs of the baby are placed in a bucket of water. If the lungs float, there is air in them and baby was born alive. If they sink, no air in them, baby was was not able to have taken a breath.
This can not be done in decomposition obviously.
the baby was in remarkable condition as compared to Laci's body...I do believe they did indeed to that test as well and the lungs did not float...I will ask my friend if that was presented...I do know that both sides presented that their was meconium in the airways...the defense stating that the baby was cut out of Laci and murdered immediately and the prosecution sticking with the "coffin birth" scenario....Laci had no head no arms missing both legs just below the knees consistent with her body being weighted at the head and joints and becoming detached because of decomp...none of those parts were ever recovered...there were no signs of trauma to indicated she had been stabbed or shot..there wasn't anything left of her neck to indicate if she had been strangled and toxicology what could be done of it..were for the best part indicated no drugs were in her system but I do know that they samples were very limited and degraded and they had to base the testing on remaining tissues. There were signs of feeding on both bodies but Laci's more than Conners...but the ME concluded that was because he was protected inside of her and wasn't exposed to those elements or animal activity as long as Laci was...that part of that feeding was responsible for his coffin birth as well as the obvious decomposition of her body
the defense tried to make it seem that tape had been wrapped around his neck to choke him...but in fact a lot of debris was clinging to his body from the bay...there was also debris on Laci's body...the tape was loosely around the babies body...not his neck but the defense theory was that it was around his neck when placed in the bay and came loose once in the water for a period of time...again I'm going to check with my friend and see if that test was done...I do know that there are things that were presented that were not made available to the public to scrutinize as closely as say the Amber Tapes etc...there was a lot of activity on Scott's computer that indicated this is something he had planned out for at least 3 months prior to her death...again the circumstantial was very heavy but there were facts that backed those theories up
I'll post what she knows when I get a hold of her...she doesn't like to talk about it but will clarify a few of the facts presented to them...I do know that he was sort of "gelitin-ized" but don't know what condition his organs were in...I'll get a hold of her and see if she can clarify these things
Last edited by Guest; 03-15-2008 at 12:39 PM.
Yeah, but that tape was knotted around the baby's body. How does it get knotted unless someone ties it?
Either way, I believe that there's room for reasonable doubt.
Someone could have easily held the bodies for a length of time, find out where Scott went fishing (it was all over the news), then dumped them at that spot to shift the blame to him.
As far as coffin birth...there was a 9-month pregnant woman in my area who was killed by her boyfriend, baby died due to maternal death. I didn't hear anything about any "coffin birth" there. Look up Bobby Cutts, Canton, Ohio.
maybe Lisa could shed some more light on the subject of coffin birth
but from what she told me was explained by the ME..the fact that Laci was in the water for a period of time helped to contribute to it..not just the decomp but the sea life feeding on her corpse. I don't recall a complete account of Jessie's remains being released to the media...so it could be possible that a coffin birth could have occurred if more time had passed etc
again there was evidence presented to SP jury that was not as out there as the more sensational things like the Amber tapes..from what I was told the tape was knotted but not around the babies neck..that there was all sorts of debris found on both bodies...yes there was tape on Laci's pants...the theory is that her body picked up this debris..then the coffin birth occurred and as the babies body came loose from Laci's it picked up and got tangled up around the body of the baby...motion of the waves etc moved the body around in such a way that the debris was tangled...not only on the baby but also on Laci...Again when I get a hold of her I will have her explain exactly what was presented to them...from what I understood from her was, it was the defenses theory that the tape had been knotted...but it was shown to the jury that the tape was tangled...and picked up along with other debris in the water.
I will also have her elaborate on the computer evidence that was presented to them...I know she stated there was a lot more than just the bay tide schedules found that indicated he planned this.
yes Conner died due to the fact that Laci died...I know this was proven I just don't know exactly all the forensic tests presented that is why I need to check with my friend...the coffin birth scenario was based on her level of decomposition within the waters of the bay...decomposition as well as the motion of the water and animal activity attributed to the coffin birth...Jessie Davis was left in a field and was found within what was it? a little more than a week of her death...we do not know the exact condition of her body but I would be interested in knowing if she had been left out there longer if coffin birth could have happened...LisaLouver??? can you elaborate on this?
I do know that the condition of Laci's body was very consistent with the time frame of her disappearance and that Conner's body was considered in better condition and it was the defenses theory that he was born alive and kept alive longer than Laci and then both of them were dumped...the defense wanted the jury to believe that this was the case but it was explained to the jury that the reason his body was in better condition was because he as inside of his mothers dead body protected from the elements until her decomp/body being fed on etc released him from her body...we don't know the exact condition of Jessies body or animal activity etc...but I think it would be safe to assume if she had been out there longer these type of things could have occurred again LisaLouver can you clarify this?
You should check out that site though if you haven't already.
My take on it--"reasonable doubt." He could have been framed. I mean, the guy admitted he was in SF Bay that day. The bodies could have been dumped after the fact.
Needless to say, I don't have a lot of faith in our "justice" system nowadays. I personally know of people who were falsely accused of things and imprisoned, or they're having a really hard time and being harassed.
again I will have to check with her
she was there she heard everything that was presented and there is a lot we were not privy too through the media...so I guess yes you could say based on what was reported there would be reasonable doubt...yet whatever was presented to this jury was enough to convict him...and I do know based on what she told me there was a lot of things presented to them that wasn't all over the news...I do know that it was the defense theory that she was later dumped...but the defense could not prove this because the evidence showed her decomp etc was consistent with the 4 month time frame...so the chances that the baby was born alive, she was killed ..kept alive...then choked with tape...then they were both dumped is not consistent with the condition of their bodies...I also know that her uterus was still within her body...and that her cervix was intact which goes against the defense theory that the baby was born first...that the uterus was "torn" towards the top of it and was not "cut" the uterus as well as other organs had signs of animal activity.
from what she explained back then the tape was not knotted around the babies neck..that parts of the tape were tangled and knotted looking...from what she said it was quite a bit of tape found..like it had been balled up at some point
I think they got the right guy...no where does it say you cannot convict on circumstantial evidence it says a preponderance of the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt...they were presented not only circumstantial but also factual evidence and it all pointed to him..I stand by what I said he is exactly where he belongs
The meconium that was referred to is the the first stool a newborn has after birth. Conner still had the meconium in his anus.
my mistake that is what I meant to put...that it wasn't in his airway but was still inside of him and NOT in the airway...by bad
I called her a little while ago and should be hearing back from her this afternoon/this evening...she can clarify a few things
A couple of things here.
Not that this is really releveant, well sort of, but anyhow. I am against the death penalty because of the sheer amount of wrongly accused and convicted there are out there. I volunteer with an Innocence project, so I am with Alexandra there.
That being said, I believe that Scott Peterson is in all liklihood guilty.
Now, on the case of Jessie in Ohio, murdered by her unborn childs father (also a police officer) she was left outside for 6-7 days. It was hot enough for her to decompose at a fairly rapid rate. However, most bodies in water decompse faster than bodies not in water.
Coffin birth is a term rarely used in the ME world. Even more rare is to have a case of one. It would not have happened in Jesse Davis' case because she was not out there long enough and in no way was she decomposed enough for it to happen. Coffin birth is also more likely to happen through an opening in the mothers body from decomposition (or from feeding from animals - water creatures or land animlas) than from the gas buildup from decomposition. Something else should be said here in that "true" coffin birth is the expulsion of a fetus through the birth canal. You will hear some ME's also characterize coffin birth as what I stated above in that the fetus leaves the mothers body through an opening in the abdomen. I wanted to clarify that.
I believe in Laci's case, Connor likely came through a hole in her abdomen that had been opened from decompositon or animals feeding. I caould certainly be wrong and she could have had the true "coffin birth". I thought I read somewhere that Laci's cervix was closed. In any case, there are ME's out there who would still call Laci's case a coffin birth even if the fetus came out through the abdomen.
Dearhart, do you know if Laci's pants were intact on her body and/or was the crotch of her pants intact?
On the knotted tape, I believe that the tape itself was knotted from twisting in the water and it was not knotted around his neck, it was knotted PRIOR to getting on his neck from the torsion of the water.
Last edited by lisalouver; 03-15-2008 at 07:17 PM. Reason: for clarification.
Renowned Death Hag
The SF Bay is FULL of garbage. Every year they have groups of people who pick up trash along the beaches that have washed ashore from the bay.
I don't think whatever is was that was tied around the baby's neck - some video tape was it? Was tightly tied, just wound around it's neck from the churning tide. It's NOT calm water out in the bay.
Sorry, I know that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but for the life of me, I just don't understand how anyone here can think that Scott didn't do do this??
I didn't say he "for sure" didn't do it...I'm just saying that there's room for reasonable doubt.
I am FOR the death penalty btw...based on Genesis 9:6 and Romans 13. If you can FOR SURE prove that someone murdered someone, don't wait, take 'em out back and shoot 'em.
Renowned Death Hag
Room for doubt? How about giving me 1 shred of evidence saying he is guilty, that isnt conjecture. They dont know how she died. They dont know where she died. they could not arrest him till the found the body. After they found the body what did the evidence say? They found the body where he said he was. Months after the fact. Thats it. Thats enough to execute someone?
I know had I been on the jury, I would have said, "That's all you have to go on? No death penalty here!"
Plenty of room for doubt.
Im against the death penalty and being on Death Row is the death penalty I tend to think!
Go towards the guilty verdict with scotty boy but there is always room for doubt Jefe! My 2 cents worth!
This thread is getting very interesting with all the forensic reportage.
Love your work Lisa!
Renowned Death Hag
He very likely did do it, but the prosecution had a weak case.
Cheating husband+pretty preggo wife+estrogen powered jury= death row
Thanks Cherry
You and I think alike on this for sure!!
From the testimony of Dr. Brian Peterson:
PETERSON: There was a portion of khaki colored trousers in place. And inside the waistband of those there was a brand name of Motherhood. On the laundry label there was a size S. I took to mean small. There were panties beneath the trousers. The brand on those was Jockey, and the size was 7. The buttock portion of the panties was missing. Part of the elastic band around each leg was still in place. With respect to further examination of the trousers, there was a button closure in the front that was still fastened. There was a zipper that was still in place. And in the waistband of the trousers there were draw cords. And those were still in place too.
HARRIS: Again, let me go to each, you are talking about these items were in place. Were they in the usual place of wearing?
PETERSON: They were.
HARRIS: That would include the underwear as well?
PETERSON: That's correct.
HARRIS: You can continue.
PETERSON: The crotch portion of the trousers was shredded, and had been basically reduced to a number of tangled fibers. To my eye, within these fibers, were a number of round to oval stony deposits, mineral deposits. These were materials that I also saw on the x-rays. So that was actually within the fibers remaining of the pants. The front of the panties was also intact. As I said, the rear portion was missing. The front was still intact, along with the bands around the legs. And that was basically it in terms of clothing.
And he did not perform a float test.
The evidence points to some form of coffin birth.
Why didn't Scott answer the phone during the interview with Diane Sawyer if he was so concerned through his crocidile tears about Laci? Why did he continue to call Amber Frey and lie about Laci's disappearance, claming he "lost" his wife? Why did he watch the searches, yet not actively participate? Why did he call Amber during the vigil and claim he was in Paris for New Year's Eve? Why did he lie to his co-workers that he was single and put "Horny Bastard" on his name tag?
Adultery does not mean he's a murderer but acting that way and then his wife comes up missing and turns up dead, along with the unborn child he didn't want, well, that's pretty strong circumstancial evidence.
The thing that pushes me totally towards Scott being guilty (besides his actions and the Amber Frey thing) is that the man was fishing in the same area where his wife and unborn child was discovered...what are the chances????
Somehow, Elizabeth, I don't think that was some wild coincidence.
Renowned Death Hag
Well, all I can say, is that Mark Geragos and the rest of Scott's defense team didn't do such a great job of proving he DIDN'T do it...
Administrator
Jefe, I didn't keep up with case, but from what I did read--all the pieces that were just too much to be coincidental--I believe he did it. But you are right about the death penalty being given to someone convicted on circumstantial evidence. The DP should be exclusive to hard evidence.
It is the law in some states that if you kill a pregnant woman whose fetus is so developed that it could live outside the womb, then you are held responsible for it's death.
With all due respect, I just do not get people who think a fetus is not human or is nothing more than an animal or entity or blob until it takes it's first breath. Fetuses are human from conception and deserve the right to live and be born. I used to be pro choice, and in some instances, I still am, but when I became pregnant my baby was as real and human as if I were holding her in my arms. And when I lost her, I mourned her as such. And I have never been able to understand how someone could kill one or murder a pregnant woman.
Yea, where is all the exculpatory evidence?
yes her pants were intact...the opening was at the top of her uterus her cervix was intact and closed
well there's a fabulous point...why tell Amber that he was widowed the previous Christmas and then sakes alive! His actual wife DOES go missing on Christmas...he's either the unluckiest man on this earth (compared to Drew Peterson...wow that name is BAD luck) or he did it...again...all the circumstantial evidence points to him...also the strong evidence (wire taps...computer hard drives...witnesses...receipts etc etc etc) also point to him...you do not always have "hard" evidence like CSI and Law and Order....connect the dots...la la la la
and for those freaking out about the Death Penalty...there are approximately 987 that need to be offed before it's his turn...unless California starts executing at a rapid rate..this douche will die of disease or old age first...Richard Alan Davis the man who murdered Polly Klaas is still breathing our air...so is Richard Rimerez the Night Stalker...he's been sitting there how long now? Roughly 23 years!!!
The jury gave him death and if anything that just insures he's not getting out ever...the argument seems to be that the circumstantial evidence wasn't enough to give him death? but do you think he did it? do you think that he should have gotten life or 2nd degree? do you feel because most of the evidence was circumstantial that he should have the chance to be free again?
I am all for the death penalty...I live in Washington State...there are a few I'd like to see swinging...that won't...like the Green River Killer! he made a deal to spare his life and believe me there was plenty of physical evidence pointing straight to him...and confessions! I feel no sympathy for Scott Peterson getting the death penalty...he saw how the evidence was going against him...he heard all the things he said on the taps...he knew it didn't look good for him that is why he dyed his hair orange and tried to run...at any point he could have said to his lawyer..."hey Mark...this isn't looking so good...I want to cop a plea...make a deal" he didn't do that because he thought he was cute and cocky enough to get away with it? that some idiot convinced his that circumstantial isn't enough to convict? he's hoping for an appeal which I don't see him getting anytime soon. I stand by my own views and that of my girlfriend/and jurors who heard ALL of the evidence there was plenty we never got to see or hear about...he's exactly where he needs to be.
Last edited by Guest; 03-16-2008 at 02:12 PM.
The whole DP issue of it doesn't really figure in for me, because as Dearheart pointed out, they sit on DR in CA for decades.
If he were in TX or FL, then it might be a viable issue.
Death Hag
I don't have anything constructive to add, but I wanted to say Thank You to dearheart and Mrs. Watson for all of the excellent information.
Oh, and I think he totally did it, and deserves to fry for it.
Administrator
Renowned Death Hag
OK, I have a question about this one: Who do you think lived an hour after Sharon Tate died? Her fetus ? If that's who you mean, then I have to disagree. Once her oxygen supply was cut off, then the fetal oxygen supply was no longer feeding the fetus, so it would have died within a few minutes.
Now, about Laci's head. I think that her neck, if it's anything like mine would have been about 12 inches around. If she had been strangled, then the small bones in her neck would have been broken, making it easier to be disarticulated by meandering hungry fish. Same with the fetus. The fish would be more likely to be eating the decomsing flesh of her stomach then trying to make her have a natural delivery. Fish aren't gynocolgists. (you can put that in the stupid statements thread.) Eventually the fetus came loose and floated free. There would of had to have been pressure on her stomach area to push it out through her birth canal.
The thing I never understood is why he did it on Christmas Eve. He could have done it during the following week, and got to open his presents on Christmas morning.
I know this is tragic, and I'm being very death haggy right now... lots of people go missing and are murdered all the time. But, it's only the pretty white girls and women that get this much attention on the news, and that's the really tragic thing.
Conner was not expelled through the birth canal...he was expelled at the top of the uterus through decomposition and the feeding of marine life...her cervix was closed...he was not "born" prior to death...she was killed pregnant and dumped...the motion of the currents...decomp and feeding caused her limbs and head to become detached from her body...the theory is these things are what were weighted..weighted at her neck..arms and both legs
none of these limbs were ever found...based on the medical report there was not enough left of her neck area to determine if she had been strangled or not...or even if her head had been chopped off...in other words there were no signs of tool marks or fractures of the existing bones or tissues
same with her limbs...no sign of tool marks at her joints to indicate she had been dismembered...however every sign that detachment occurred by natural means of decomposition and feeding activity...the torso was not a perfectly intact torso...feeding activity noted not only on the lower organs but the upper organs as well...feeding activity noted on the uterus...the uterus is an extremely tough organ and from what I was told it would take longer for decomposition to destroy this organ...Lisa....please indulge us on this point?
the explanation for the baby being in far better condition..meaning lack of detachments and feeding activities is because he was inside of his dead mother for a number of months prior to her decomp etc being expelled from the top of her uterus..not her birth canal
my friend left me a message on my voice mail and really doesn't want to relive the details of the conditions of the bodies...however she adamantly states that Conner was not born by natural means...that there is no way he was delivered then killed and dumped at a separate time or kept alive then killed and dumped with Laci...that the defense could NOT explain their theory of him being delivered THEN Laci killed...then her body held onto...then Conner kept alive...then eventually killed and dumped at the same time as Laci...her decomp and animal activity was consistent with the prosecution witness...and the location they both were found consistent with tides and currents from the area he was fishing...presented with these FACTS...because those tides schedules are just that...the defense could not contradict any of these things with any of their experts etc
the condition of Conners body was consistent with him being dead inside of his dead mother for a period of time..this was the ME evidence presented
the tape was NOT knotted tightly around his neck....imagine a big balled up wad of tape that isn't squeezed down into a ball...just balled up but left loose...there would be several loops within this ball...what was around his neck was a loose loop of this tape...not knotted...that along with other debris was found with both of their bodies as well as the area they were found in...a lot of things wash up when the tides come in...they had to speculate that he probably became tangled up in water since this was looped around his neck as opposed to this debris getting on him or her by being left behind during high tide...but they couldn't rule that out either
regarding his computer records...there is a lot more than just the tide schedule that he researched...he researched how heavy an anchor would need to be to hold down a specific amount of weight and how long it could be held down under circumstances such as tides and currents...he did not however research rate of decomposition regarding weights and anchors...he also had quite the appetite for online porn and adult dating sites. there are other things but they are very detailed and until I can speak to her and take notes I'm only depending on her voice mail she left regarding specific questions asked
many many experts testified not just ME and personal witnesses but experts on boating..fishing...gps...body language etc
the guy is guilty guilty..why did he do it? She cannot answer for sure why...she feels there are many reasons but mainly because he no longer wanted to be married let alone be tied to a child to support...she does not believe it was so he could "be with Amber" in that sense...but to be able to do as he pleased with whatever woman he wanted...fortunately a jury does not have to agree on his motive just the facts and preponderance of evidence and she insists that ALL of it pointed right back to Scott...that the defense could not plant that seed of doubt to them with their experiments or theories
Forensically speaking, there does not need to be pressure on the abdomen for the fetus to come through the birth canal in a coffin birth. What expels the fetus is buildup of gas from decomposition. Again, it is very rare and in my professional opinion I believe that it is more likely in Laci's case that her abdomen broke free from sea creatures or degredation and that is how Connor broke free.
Laci Peterson was Hispanic and not white, I believe.
Renowned Death Hag
That makes sense, and I stand corrected. She was very pretty though.
I agree with you. She was beautiful and I think that is one reason why she did get so much attention. And I know what you mean about that.
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