You are welcome!Originally Posted by Jod6cindy
I'll see what I can do with Barbara.
You are welcome!
I'll see what I can do with Barbara.
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Last edited by Northern Lights; 01-21-2010 at 01:46 AM. Reason: Deleted empty posts, pictures disappeared.
Some fascinating and touching memories of Barbara Payton here, from Gia Scala's best friend, former male model, William (Bill) Ramage (whose own website is: http://www.williamramage.com/)
http://www.hollywoodstarletbarbarapa...age/page4.html
Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye, The Barbara Payton Story is one of the best biographies I've read.
I think Barbara would be happy how her life story is playing out--and it will continue to as long as her family, friends and fans remember her. Her son has a good life and family. Hopefully, some will learn from her mistakes. And, when her life did not get in the way, she proved that she was an admirable actress--we're still watching and talking about her films today.
Author O'Dowd does not let his ardor with Payton get in the way of telling the truth, no matter how painful. Families and friends usually are reluctant to share their memories and mementos, and their willingness to share with him says a lot.
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What kind of funeral did she have? Where is she buried?
According to Wikipedia, Payton was cremated and is interred in a niche at Cypress View Mausoleum and Crematory in San Diego, California.
I bought Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye just before I went on holiday,a few weeks ago and read it in a few days, great book, well written and researched. Thank you John. I have been fascinated by her ever since reading about her here on Findadeath many moons ago. John O'Dowd presents her as a tragic figure who mainly by bad judgement and many addictions ruined her life and its hard not to agree. Before I read the book I thought that she was a trashy drug riddled nympho. This has now changed, I have much more understanding now of how she really was and when sober she was a truly decent person. The one thing I can't get over is how she treated her son John Lee Payton. He seems to have nothing but great love for his mother but he saw things that any young boy should never see, and the bit that really got me was the state the poor boy was in when Barbara, Tony Provas (her then husband) and young John Lee came back from Mexico. I have a young 9 year old daughter who is my world so I can't understand how you could do this to your own flesh and blood, no wonder she lost custody. Hopefully this will bump Barbara and we will all be talking about her again. Any news on a movie about her.
Renowned Death Hag
I remember seeing a story on her back when TV was actually worth watching. It was on "Mysteries & Scandals" with AJ Benza. Other than that 22 minute show I know very little about her, but I had someone else in my life that always reminded me of Barbara Payton. It does seem she made a lot of horrible choices, and finally dug a hole she couldn't get herself out of. My last GF had a daughter like that. After we split, we still stayed in touch until I learned her daughter had moved in with her. Daughter was extremely bi-polar, and hell-bent on having everything her way, even though she was a crystal meth addict (only sober because she was on probation). She also stole a pricey piece of jewelry from me 2 years prior. I told my ex GF that nothing good was going to come out of her daughter living there, and never talked to her again. I truly feel like I dodged a bullet with this GF, if we had stayed in touch, I just know I would have been dragged into a bunch of drama.
I'm curious to know the story about the young son, what types of things did he see that he shouldn't have? What did she do to him to cause her to lose custody?
By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next.
--William Shakespeare!
Senior Death Hag
Wow, her life really went down the shithole. La Lohan and Spears need to read that story!
Wait a minute ... those two can READ ?
Renowned Death Hag
Can't see that happening to Lohan or Spears, at least turning tricks to survive anyways. OD'ing maybe, seems to be the "in" thing when your life is out of control...
By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next.
--William Shakespeare!
While I don't know for a fact, believe me this girl was most likely molested. Sex for men to love her (early years and she HAD to know she was going to get a bad reputation, I mean, this was the 1950's) in her early years, sex for men to fight over her and then sex for money to live on (not to mention the alcohol). Again, only my opinion. I agree, to an extent, that her story is tragic but a lot of it seems to be brought on by herself. I mean, Gail Neal (Tom Neal's, her former lover, wife was murdered by him) that is a tragedy. I believe the real tragedy here is, even if she wanted help (maybe she did), there was no where for her to go (psychiatry had a HUGE stigma back then). I too would love to see FAD do a story on her.
Me too a FAD story plus a good film would be great. I was talking to my Dad on holiday last October and he saw I was reading "Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye". He remembered Barbara Payton's picture and said "thats Barbara Payton, Hollywood's bad girl, she came to England in the 50's", and went on to talk about the media circus that went on. I'd never heard of her until stumbling upon her FAD's forum. Although you could never say she was a major star, it has to be said her demise was possibly one of the biggest Hollywood scandals.
Renowned Death Hag
Am reading "Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye". This is a gut-wrenching book. I just finished "I Am Not Ashamed". ( Her "AutoBio") Funny thing, I like her ALOT in the Biography. Her autobiography makes her completely unlikeable, in my opinion. What a massive waste of a very worthwhile and talented person. Interesting comment on the back of the book credited to Yevette Vickers..."I just wished she believed that she was a worthwhile person." We all know what happened to Miss Vickers...
Senior Death Hag
I'm reading Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye right now as well and I thought the same thing when I read Yvette Vickers' comment. I'm loving the book so far. It does present an array of opinions about her which I like. Some people definitely still have a low opinion about her but others describe her as a loving, talented but utterly messed up human being.
I'd love to read I Am Not Ashamed but I've never found it anywhere for a reasonable price. Someone on eBay was selling it at a starting price of $60 (believe it sold for $90). I'm sure it's good but not $90 good! The bits about her writing the book in "Kiss" are already pretty damn depressing as are the photos.
"You live alone, creating your life as you go." - Edie Sedgwick
Renowned Death Hag
"I Am Not Ashamed" is on my Kindle. Just a buck or two. Less than ten anyway. Can't remember. If you have an Ipad or E reader I'd look into it!!I'm reading Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye right now as well and I thought the same thing when I read Yvette Vickers' comment. I'm loving the book so far. It does present an array of opinions about her which I like. Some people definitely still have a low opinion about her but others describe her as a loving, talented but utterly messed up human being.
I'd love to read I Am Not Ashamed but I've never found it anywhere for a reasonable price. Someone on eBay was selling it at a starting price of $60 (believe it sold for $90
Senior Death Hag
Cool, thanks for the tip!
"You live alone, creating your life as you go." - Edie Sedgwick
I was not that fimiliar with Barbara, another eat them up and spit them out of hollywood story...sounds like she had her own demons. Sad Story.
Death Hag
I want to read "Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye" SO badly, but I can't find it for less than $26 bucks, and I just don't have the funds. I can't find a library copy either.
If there was ever a chance of Lindsay Lohan having a successful comeback, it would be to play Barbara. Kind of like Courtney Love playing Althea, she'd be a natural. And I don't mean that in a snarky way. When Lohan is straight, she's still quite lovely, and when she's at her worst, she reminds me exactly of how Barbara looked towards the end.
Last edited by dvz; 04-20-2013 at 11:34 AM.
I'm 2/3 through "Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye", and it is a great read. She had a tragic life. I believe it was self imposed. I don't think she was bi-polar. She liked to degrade herself and stay in trouble. It's a mental illness but not bi-polar. She was a beautiful woman, but she couldn't stand to be happy and comfortable.
You can't put down Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye. Read it and you can form you own opinion why she was self destructive.
Senior Death Hag
^It really is a great read. I've already finished it and re-read it twice. One of her husbands...the third one named Tony I think (too lazy to look it up) just gives me an off vibe. Something about him seems terribly skeevy. The whole "Pate" nickname thing wore thin quickly. I think the men in her life caused her just as much trouble as her own behavior. I don't buy the bi-polar armchair diagnosis either. I think her terrible relationship with her father had a lot to do with how she acted. She definitely had some mental issues and a huge problem with alcohol but most of the things she did, she seemingly did with a clear mind. The entire Tom Neal saga was preventable but she just didn't want to leave that man alone.
"You live alone, creating your life as you go." - Edie Sedgwick
Administrator
I want the book but it's like 22.00 on amazon right now...
Finally read this book. You can't help hoping she'll turn herself around even though you know she doesn't. A very sad story but for whatever reasons she seemed her own worst enemy. It's like she got into Hollywood relatively easily and just turned around and messed it all up and when she was ready to be taken seriously there she had burned her boats and it was quickly downhill for her. I found her Sons memories of her so touching though. She wasn't a bad person at all, just made a lot of bad decisions.
I'm an autograph collector and imagine my surprise when several years ago I bought Rock Hudson's signature on one side of an album leaf and on the other side was Barbara Payton's! She wasn't even mentioned as being part of the purchase. After reading up on her, I actually debated which side of the page to display in a frame: Rock's or Barbara's. Since I had already begun a panel for Hudson, he won out. BUT: Barbara Payton's autograph is far more rare and likely more valuable as a collectable piece [it's so scarce I can't even find a pricing reference in my official Sanders guide but I'm guessing she's worth 3-4 times that of Hudson's].
I didn't know that Barbara's autograph was that rare and valuable. I own quite a few items she autographed, as well as several pieces of fan mail she received when she was at WB. I also have a very brief handwritten note that Franchot Tone sent her while he was staying at NYC's Warwick Hotel in 1951.
That same year, Barbara did a radio interview program in North (or South) Carolina, and I have a 78 rpm recording of that show, too. (Obviously, she doesn't mention the brawl between Tone and Tom Neal. Things like that weren't discussed in those years.)
I would never sell any of these items, however I would like them to be donated after my death to The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences...that is, if the organization wants them. I know how much of the industry feels about Barbara (to this very day). I tried getting her a Star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame some years ago, and was told by several people out there that it will never happen.
Senior Death Hag
Senior Death Hag
http://www.examiner.com/article/morb...s-it-gets-uglyI always thought her a tramp, mainly because of the lousy way she treated TONE who adored her.
Payton
PAYTON becomes MRS. TONE
1951
PAYTON & TONE
'B' Movie Bruiser TOM NEAL;
Look at the size of him compared to FRANCHOT.
NEAL, btw, was convicted of murdering his
wife GAIL in 1965.
Jod6Cindy:
There are many different criteria that affect the value of a celebrity autograph. Of course, whether the person is living/dead is a factor, the type of piece it is [whether it's a letter, contract, personal check, photo, etc.], the overall condition of the piece, it's written content [contracts or personal correspondance - such as your 1951 piece- fetch the higher prices] and of course: WHAT makes the person "famous" enough to be interesting to a collector.
In Barbara Payton's case, her value is based partially upon it's rarity [since she died so young] and her notorious public/professional life. Another big variable is availability... there just aren't that many autograph's of Barbara Payton that show up on the collector's market. I would estimate Payton's autograph value to be similar to that of Frances Farmer, another troubled Hollywood starlet. Farmer's simple signature sells for around $141 - but a signed picture will fetch almost $1,000 [whereas a signed Rock Hudson pic only sells for around $228 but: he signed thousands of them over several decades]!
BTW: I can understand why you wouldn't part with such treasures. Neither would I!!!
SUGGESTION: one of the reasons I collect autographs is because they clearly reflect the state of a person's mind when they signed them. Handwriting invariably reveals personal stresses and acheivements... as well as the "true" personality as opposed to the public one. Given Barbara Payton's emotional highs/lows, you should see subtle yet compelling variations in her handwriting and you're especially blessed to have pieces of an intimate nature since they can tell the most complete story of her emotional state. Give them another look with these thoughts in mind!
Last edited by GSBLTD; 11-13-2013 at 09:42 PM.
loll, thats very interesting one here to watch i loved it a lot and its really superb to be held for longer time
Death Hag
Her story would be a great subject for an opera.
Renowned Death Hag
That is the tragic part, I really think she was mentally ill, but at the time, all the experts saw was that she was a drunk and a slut. I do think there had to be some kind of sexual abuse for her to have been so promiscuous in her early teens.
I felt bad for her, but I can't blame her husband for suing for custody of their son.
John-o was being left alone for days at the time by age 6, threatened with a knife on separate occasions by two of his Mom's suitors, and was witnessing actual orgies by age 8, I don't care how great of a mother she was, that is not a fit environment for a child. Even if the kid describes everything as just common occurrences in their own little world.
Once Barbara took up with a big game fisherman and was down in Mexico all the time with John-o, I think her ex really feared for the safety and well being of his son. And while it was harsh to move the child to Germany, I can't really blame the ex for thinking maybe a clean break was best for everyone. It doesn't appear that Barbara ever tried to visit her son, and he made no attempt to look her up when he moved back to the US in his teen years.
Some excellent points , and I don't disagree with them. Regarding your last sentence, I think you're probably right: Barbara very likely made no attempt to reconnect with her son in the 1960s. I believe that her alcoholism (and all her other mental and emotional problems) had her feeling totally lost by then. A damn shame.
John O'Dowd
www.john-odowd.com
what a beautiful story to read up.
i feel so sorry for that women now
I totally agree re her Son. He may not have felt it at the time but it was certainly the best decision to get him away from her. So very sad and yes I also think she had some mental illness too but it never got picked up.
I agree with you about the responsibily one has to take for oneself and his/her actions, SheBoss; yet, my opinion is Barbara never actually reached adulthood: she remained and behaved like a little wild girl all her life. Always seeking and giving (only) fun and excitement. That amounted to her irresistible charm and self destruction, poor lovely Barbara.
Renowned Death Hag
It's a shame, because she was very talented. I think the fame and all that came with it ended up being her downfall. Too much too soon. Her life would make one hell of a film, I'm surprised it has not been made into one.
Today you could be standing next to someone who is trying their best not to fall apart. So whatever you do today, do it with kindness.
Renowned Death Hag
It doesn't look like there's anything in the works as far as a movie being made about her, at least as far as I can tell. What's really sad is that she only received $1000 for her biography. It seems as if Hollywood prefers to sweep this story under the rug.
By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next.
--William Shakespeare!
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I watched Scott's latest YouTube video today that contained tidbits about Payton and location footage of where she used to turn tricks. It's crazy that she went through so many horrible stages in her life in such a short time, and then died at the age of 39. She'd lost everything by then, including her son.
I found this copy of a newspaper article published shortly after her death:
Image courtesy of the San Bernardino County Sun, May 11, 1967.
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