john mark byers freaks out alot of people, including me too~ & tho my heart breaks because they lost chris, he is real nasty to people on the boards out there in regards to the case~ i have seen him do real nasty horrid things to people who have supported him since day one, even when he switched sides~ they even sent him monies & such~ it is really sad & does nothing but mock christopher's memory~Originally Posted by discod
Senior Death Hag
Hello Goddess
JMB is nasty. And his internet friend Rugs is his second mouth piece. The nasty stuff they have done to people is horrible. JMB did not kill his son, but he is really is making a mockery of his step son's memory. These guys have posted personal things about people on their boards to make fun of peoples hardships, they have called employers trying to get people fired, They have threatened people, mainly women, of bodily harm, they are just horrible nasty people. With supporters like that, its makes you wonder why people must be so mean to get their point across.
HIHello Goddess
JMB is nasty. And his internet friend Rugs is his second mouth piece. The nasty stuff they have done to people is horrible. JMB did not kill his son, but he is really is making a mockery of his step son's memory. These guys have posted personal things about people on their boards to make fun of peoples hardships, they have called employers trying to get people fired, They have threatened people, mainly women, of bodily harm, they are just horrible nasty people. With supporters like that, its makes you wonder why people must be so mean to get their point across.
don't get me started on rugs~ he came all the way from australia to harrass terry hobbs at his wrk, w/ tv cameras rolling & didn't have the balls to say who he was, he portrayed himself as someone else~ he is a dispicable person~
What are the links to the boards?Hello Goddess
JMB is nasty. And his internet friend Rugs is his second mouth piece. The nasty stuff they have done to people is horrible. JMB did not kill his son, but he is really is making a mockery of his step son's memory. These guys have posted personal things about people on their boards to make fun of peoples hardships, they have called employers trying to get people fired, They have threatened people, mainly women, of bodily harm, they are just horrible nasty people. With supporters like that, its makes you wonder why people must be so mean to get their point across.
Senior Death Hag
There are so many boards now LOL
Ok heres the one Goddess and I are on.. http://wm3hoax.downonthefarm.org/board/index.php
This one is a nice neutral board with both supporters and nons. http://therealwestmemphisthree.yuku.com/
Here is Rugs board with JMB: http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/i...e243b39c1bc87&
Here is a new board that just started http://thewm3.yuku.com/
Here are some that I do not know much about LOL:
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/
http://paradiselost3.com/ this one is a new one also.
Thank you!
Senior Death Hag
Your welcome
Death Hag of Legend
I hope your judgement of the WM3 or whatever the fuck theyre called isnt as shallow and baselessly opinionated as the judgement youve decreed uppon people that have come to a different conclusion than you regarding this case. I can see where you are coming from though. I am so sick of these wm3 supporters (who settle for a third of the amount of fame that most people aspire to) mincing and prancing and displaying their foolish nonesense all over the media like Angelyne billboards blighting the 80s LA landscape. They are shameless arent they! What fools! If I see them on TMZ or ET one more time I just might go on a killing spree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnCZx...eature=related
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Ich, I think if you were more familiar with the case you would better understand what he's saying. Not all of the supporters are that way but a great lot of them clearly are.
I would watch where you post MY GOD some forums are just terrible,dont let you voice your opinion and accuse you of being a troll.Just because they support these guys its their way or no way,its disgusting
agreed, i have been banned from every supporter board, except rugs, whose board i'd never join~ i didn't post on them either, so they had nothing to disagree w/ me on, they just banned me straight up for being a non~
Honestly i just wanted to know a few answers and it was 'troll troll troll' i was shocked
Death Hag of Legend
Fair enough. I havent really seen anything since the first hbo documentary or bothered studying the case so I dont really have an informed opinion on their gulit or innocence so I hope no one thinks my response is coming from that angle.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
but the burden of the state is to prove them guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of their *peers*. the burden is not on the accused to prove 100% innocent.
again, i state this saying that i have not come to any opinion on this case other than that there is enough reasonable doubt for a new trial. both sides should bring their A game and see how it lands.
there are so many creeps and so many questions, bring it.
Aw, I think I know where it came from.
Death Hag of Legend
Aw, I think I know where it came from.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
I was a kid in Memphis, TN, just across the Mississippi from West Memphis when those murders happened. Talk was that one of the kids stepfather killed those kids. Most the genetic material recovered matches neither the victims or the accused, the stepfather had pulled or pulled all his teeth (bite marks were on bodies) and had a police record. They need to be retried on new genetic evidence. DNA testing was in it's infancy in 1993, they just developed Polymerase chain reaction then and testing is much improved now. Yep, I'm one of those give them a new trial or "Free the West Memphis Three" folks.
I think they're guilty, thats just my gut opinion
I don't know what I think about the guilt or innocence of the defendants, although I am leaning toward guilt.
But I think it's important to remember that the documentaries were heavily slanted. The filmmakers and HBO are looking to get VIEWERS, that's their goal. They don't care about the case, they want to promote THEMSELVES.
What better way to promote themselves and get attention than what they did?
In a similar vein, HBO made a movie about the Lindbergh baby kidnapping. This was a dramatization starring Stephen Rea and Isabella Rossellini. I think it was called "Crime of the Century." Rather than being an old, rehash of the same story, the movie took the position that Bruno Hauptmann was INNOCENT. By the time I finished watching, I was practically crying, because they were going to put Stephen Rea in the electric chair.
So it's important to consider who made the film, and why.
that was a dramatization. the other films are documentaries.
i think that the people that did the documentaries did so b/c they thought they were innocent, which is an opinion that they are entitled to have based on the research they did.
as i have stated, i am on the fence but i think that a new trial would finally put all the speculation to rest and i think there is enough doubt for a new trial. if they are in fact guilty, a new trial with all the new forensics applications that are now available should help to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt---or exonerate them.
Senior Death Hag
I agree, if there's enough new evidence to justify a new trial, they should do it. I'm not sure the outcome would be any more definitive, though.
It reminds me of the Sam Shepherd murder trials. After finding him guility, F Lee Bailey appealed and the verdict was reversed. Dr. Sam later died, but subsequent investigations, books, etc. that tried to clear his name were never able to do so. A later trial to declare him innocent was unsuccessful and, in fact, revealed more evidence that Dr. Sam may have killed his wife after all.
The West Memphis murders are similar in that they were shocking, attracted a lot of media attention, didn't offer much evidence for police to work with. The guilty verdicts were challenged by well funded, high profile attorneys who were able to generate enough confusion about details of the crime to make people question their guilt but not exonerate them completely.
Honestly, I don't think we'll ever know without a shadow of doubt who the killers were.
To New York Doll:
Yes, I understand it was a dramatization, I said that in my post.
My point about the makers of "Paradise Lost" is that they edit the footage so that the viewer will conclude that the defendants are innocent. When I first saw it, I couldn't believe that they had been convicted at all.
As I did independent research, I began to see that the movie deliberately leaves out a great deal of information.
argh, i am out of this thread. it just seems like an argument topic and not discussion.
To New York Doll:
You know what I would like to see? A new trial, with complete, impartial coverage.
So far, the appellate courts have not granted any requests for new trials. I am not sure what would persuade them.
Senior Death Hag
this is something I was reading last nite. Its about Jessie testifying in Damien and Jason's trial. I thought maybe you guys would be interested in reading.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/prefeb22.html
also, what I found very interesting and sad...that i hadnt known about before,
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jury.html
Jurors were getting death threats for sentencing Damien. Wow. I know this doesnt point to guilt or innocence, I just thought how horrible to be a juror and be threatened.
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Found this:
Jello Biafra and other artists will be auctioning selected autographed items to raise funds for the West Memphis Three (www.wm3.org) -- Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley, and Jason Baldwin. Having no physical evidence, the three teenagers were pinpointed, harassed and accused of murdering and mutilating three elementary school children. Damien Echols sits on death row, Jason Baldwin was sentenced to life without parole, and Misskelley got life plus forty. In July 2007 DNA evidence proved these three young men should never have been convicted.
The auctions will last for 17 days—from March 31 to April 16th—one day for each year the West Memphis Three have spent behind bars. June 3, 2010 will mark the 17th year anniversary that Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley, and Jason Baldwin have been behind bars for a crime they did not commit.
A guitar used by Michale Graves in the recording of the album Illusions with songs written by Damien Echols including the album art on the guitar, a pressing of Dead Kennedys 2nd album, Plastic Surgery Disasters vinyl signed by Biafra. Boondock Saints' Norman Reedus auctioning off his photography. CDs
All auction proceeds go to the WM3 defense fund via ATA, a tax exempt 501(c)(3) organization.
The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.
- R.H. Sin
Save your money! Donate it to a poor family or your local SPCA. I always appreciate hearing the "no evidence" theory as suggested by West Memphis Three supporters. Bullshit I say. I can read the transcripts and reports ALL BY MYSELF and I know these three's convictions were based on (Are you ready? Get This!): E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E. While I can agree that it wasn't the best damn evidence in the world, people have been convicted ON A LOT LESS.
Makes me wonder what NEW cause the West Memphis Three supporters will involve themselves with when the final appeals are finally exhausted (which is way overdue in my opinion). I hope the State of Arkansas has a "put the child killer to death" raffle. I personally would like to administer the deadly, chemical cocktail to Damien myself. I would offer to do the same for Jason and Jessie at NO expense to the state. Problem solved.
Next thing you know, we're gonna be taking up money to free child molesters. Give me a break...
joS3ph
Last edited by joS3ph; 03-28-2010 at 02:50 PM.
Michael. Stevie & Christopher...
Another day has gone, I'm still all alone
How could this be you're not here with me
You never said goodbye, someone tell me why
Did you have to go and leave my world so cold?
Everyday I sit and ask myself
How did love slip away
Something whispers in my ear and says
That you are not alone, for I am here with you
Though you're far away, I am here to stay
But you are not alone, for I am here with you
Though we're far apart, you're always in my heart
But you are not alone
Just the other night, I thought I heard you cry
Asking me to come and hold you in my arms
I can hear your prayers, your burdens I will bear
But first I need your hand then forever can begin
Everyday I sit and ask myself
How did love slip away
Something whispers in my ear and says
That you are not alone, for I am here with you
Though you're far away, I am here to stay
But you are not alone, for I am here with you
Though we're far apart, you're always in my heart
For you are not alone
Oh whisper three words and I'll come runnin'
And I, and girl you know that I'll be there, I'll be there
You are not alone, for I am here with you
Though you're far away, I am here to stay
You are not alone, for I am here with you
Though we're far apart, you're always in my heart
Never forgotten & may god bless...~
I just got turned onto this case. At this point, I'm still in a fact gathering place. I'm going to be reading everything I can get my hands on and taking everything I read with a grain of salt. I watched the first 20 minutes of Paradise Lost, I was unprepared for video of the victim's bodies. I already feel like the police were unprepared for this type of crime, also they were unprepared for a townful of people wanting an arrest for the person(s) who committed this horrible crime. I think with all that was screwed up from the beginning of this case, they should have a new trial, present old and new evidence in a different county in front of a different judge and maybe the public will feel that the three got a fair trial. I'm trying to remain neutral and unbiased right now. I also dont want to step on any toes, I read this whole thread and I can tell there are some high emotions running through it, so I'm trying to be respectful. I also enjoy a lively, but respectable debate :-)
Senior Death Hag
there is alot of good information out there. The movies were biased. You really do not get the whole picture with the movies. I would just suggest going to http://callahan.8k.com/ the court transcripts are there, and evidence, ect. And good luck
Last edited by BelleRain; 08-04-2010 at 11:34 PM. Reason: correct spelling in web address
you are FABULOUSthere is alot of good information out there. The movies were biased. You really do not get the whole picture with the movies. I would just suggest going to http://callahan.8k.com/ the court transcripts are there, and evidence, ect. And good luck
I'm going to check out the site. I watched the movie. I feel like, just like any case when trying to prove your side, you sift through the evidence and pick the bits that seem to fit whatever story you are trying to tell. I feel like the victim's families wern't questioned very much, you must question the victim's families. To know the killer and the motive, you must know your victim. Also the cops lost, destroyed or failed to collect evidence. The autopsies don't seem that thorough since the wounds on the victim's are now being questioned as to their origin. This is quickly becoming my latest obsession. I'm gathering all the info, now I'm going to go over it to see for myself.
please, please read the site~ you have no idea how much the documentaries were biased~ the site contains the actual court evidence, including photos, damien's medical records...~ it took me a long time to wade thru it all, but i found it all very compelling~
DNA testing results of the West Memphis 3 concluded. Ain't never going to change my mind, I was kid in Memphis then and the chatter was the stepfather did it but that's hearsay. If Arkansas lets them have a new trial and they are found innocent just imagine to money they would get, good reason not to have a new trial. Free the West Memphis 3.
http://laughingsquid.com/dna-evidenc...memphis-three/
have you been to callahan's & read ALL the evidence?~ you can also see the 3 weren't exclusively excluded by the dna, no matter how supporters try & spin the findings~
I read this whole thread a few days ago and have started delving into the case files. I just finished reading the transcripts for Jessie Misskelly's trial. Honestly, if I had been on that jury there is no way I would have voted to convict him.
What is it about the transcripts that made you feel this way? (Just curious.)
The only evidence that put him at the scene was his own confession. No one should ever be convicted on a confession alone. There should be some kind of corraborating evidence and there was none.
Furthermore there is too much evidence that the confession was falsely given. He first said the murders happened at a time that it has been proven the boys were in school. He only changed the time after being led to by the investigators. Also, the boys were tied up with one white and the rest black shoe laces, but Misskelly stated they were tied with brown rope.
Senior Death Hag
While your looking at Jessie's trial transcripts. Look at the testamony and police interviews of Buddy Lucas, Dennis Carter, Fred Revelle. These are friends that at first said there was no wrestling match that nite, and they hadnt seen Jessie at all that day, then recanted it all, said the police that took the police interviews mustve lied, even though He signed the interview notes, and then starts saying that there was a wrestling match that nite. But they end up proving the Wrestling match was the wednsday before. William Jones is another friend who said one thing about Damien, and then recanted it all. I found all those testamonies, and police interviews very interesting. There was another friend that spoke with Jessie the next day and said that Jessie seemed upset, and gave his shoes to this guy to get rid of. There was also a statement by Jessie where he had said he was very upset after the boys murders, upset about what he had done. He drank a bottle of Evan Williams, and threw the bottle under the bridge. The police found that broken bottle and was able to match it to a bottle of Evan WIlliams. No other bottle in the stores matched. Also, Jessie kept confessing. After the trial, and sentencing, he again told police officers he was there, he was involved, and then did an interview, with his lawyers there begging him to shut up. And he said, I want to tell the truth. I want something done. I want to tell everything. And then recounted everything that happened that nite. These are just some of the things that make me believe that the boys that are in prison now, are the right monsters.
Goddess has alot of good information also. If you still believe that the guys in prison are innocent, that is ok. I believe we all can have our own opinions
Senior Death Hag
Also, I just wanted to add,
One thing that is exaggerated, is that Jessie is mentally retarded. I dont believe that is the case. he is not book smart, that is for sure, but he is street smart. He scored borderline. You would have to look at the notes about that, but I know it was only like a 6 point difference from slow to mentally ok. He knew what was going on. He had been involved in a police matter before. He was arrested for punching a girl because she wouldnt have sex with him.
Another file to look at, is Damiens Exhibit 500. Very very interesting. All of his mental records for the 2 years before the murders. Like, one instance he was hospitalized and the parents were scared for their lives. The mother explains how he threatened to kill and eat his father, ect. But now, the mother says she was never afraid for her life around damien. I dont understand, when it is clearly in the notes what his mom said.
I completely agree Belle. Jessie being mentally retarded has most definately been blown way out of proportion. In the interviews that I have seen of him, he is able (IMO) to articulate himself and seems to be able to fully understand the questions the interviewer asks. Granted he is slow, but not to the extent that the WM3 supporters are claiming.
Damiens Exhibit 500 does show Damiens history of violence and (again IMO) a disturbed mind. I'm with you about the mom denying the fear she had of her son. I suppose it has a lot to do with a mother's love and willingness to do anything to save her son, despite the pain he has caused. I'm not a mom so I don't know what the love of your child would push you to do.
I also wanted to say that the things I post are just my own opinion and thoughts. I don't judge anyone here that disagrees with me. We are all entitled to our own opinions. Agree or disagree with me, it's your right. I'm not trying to start any arguments or 'call out' anyone that supports the belief that these three men are innocent. I simply do not believe that they are. I have done a lot of research and owe a debt of gratitude to GODDESS for all her help in providing me with places to go to learn more about this case.
I'm neither for or against either side. I haven't read enough to form an opinion of guilt or innocence yet.
I am a criminal justice student so my opinions are heavily based on that background. Jessie Misskelly could be as guilty as the day is long, but quite frankly the prosection did not prove him guilty in my opinion.
I hope I haven't upset anyone. I like a good debate, but not a fight.
I can only speak for myself, but I feel safe in saying that I don't think you've upset anyone. Not everyone here is going to agree on certain issues. I for one enjoy people posting that have different opinions than I do because I usually end up learning something. I enjoyed your post about Misskelly, I may not agree with you but it was a different perspective than my own and it made me think.
There are many cases of people who looked guilty as sin being proven innocent after spending years in prison. Including people who gave detailed confessions. That is why one shouldn't be convicted on a confession alone.
This was a case where the local police were in over their heads. They should have called more experienced investigators in to help. Then Miskelly's confession might have impressed me more. As it stands there are just too many holes in it. They didn't recored the first part of their interview with him so it is his word against theirs on what really happened during that time. They didn't record the time every time they stopped and restarted the tape. The time discrepancy. The discrepancy on what the boys were tied up with. The only things that rang true were that Miskelly could tell them that the Byers boy had been castrated and another was cut on the face. He could have been coached on both of those while the tape was turned off. Afterall didn't they admit they showed him a picture of the Byers boy's body? Also the information of injuries had been leaked to the public just not which injuries had been done to whom. It would have been very easy for the investigators to plant that information in Misskelly's head.
There are also known cases of people giving false confessions repeatedly without coersion from police out of a false sense of guilt.
Senior Death Hag
I agree. Mistakes were made.
When Jessie was shown a picture of one of the boys dead in the morgue, they say he kinda looked at it, and then they played a tape, that said, "No one knows what happened but me." and that was in a little boys voice. After those two things, he confessed. jessie also stated Stevie branch was the boy with the cut up face. That was true. He also, like u said, pointed out Christopher Byers as the one partially casterated. He also said he chased Michael Moore down, brought the young boy back to the group, and held on to him. That he wasnt as beaten as the others, and that was also shown to be true.
I also think its great we all have different opinions. Its makes it a great discussion. Without having to belittle others for having different opinions
I also think its great we all have different opinions. Its makes it a great discussion. Without having to belittle others for having different opinions
We all use our different backgrounds and experiences to interpret the information we read, so seldom will everyone agree. You read the information and see a guilty man. I read the information and see what could be either a guilty man or a man who has for one reason or another given a false confession. There is just too much reasonable doubt for me.
I love a good discussion like this where everyone can agree to disagree. Afterall, we all have a right to our own opinion.
Renowned Death Hag
Ooooh! Me! Me! I want in on this discussion!
I've painstakingly read every last thing on the Callahan site as well as numerous books and articles both for and against and have about 28 pages of notes to prove it. AND I still can't decide on guilt or innocence. The only thing I know for certain in my mind is that there was indeed jury tampering; therefore, the 3 deserve a new trial.
I listed out my pros and cons on the websleuths site. I'll see if I can go back and copy/paste here. Maybe we could discuss those? I'm not a fan of arguing either. I just want to know the truth.
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39
Renowned Death Hag
Well, it seems there has been some heated discussion in my absence from the WMIII forum at Websleuths. Many threads have been deleted and many people banned. Dang - I'll have to think up the reasons all on my own again!
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39
What is this jury tampering you speak of?
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