West Memphis Murders

[RaRaRamona]

because some one is a celebrity they cant have an opinion?

They can all have all the opinions they want but they run the risk of alienating fans.

I get plain sick of hearing their opinions.

[GODDESS6]

they have been wading thru appeals in the past few weeks~ & what the defense is saying now is even more pathetic than before~

the 3 are where they belong~

[RaRaRamona]

I agree

[discod]

Hmmm...not that I'm aware of, discod. I've not heard of that. Do they do it often in trials?

No I dont think it can be used in court same as polygraphs but it always interests me.There is a guy over here in the UK that is used quite a lot on some shows and he is always spot on and explains what catches people out like constantly blinking,crossing the legs,the way ur hands sit while ur talking,the way the body leans and so on
Its fasinating stuff and would love to have a body language experts opinion

[ZoeAnne]

I think there is enough 'doubt' for at least a new trial......after reading the transcripts a few years back.....things seemed rather 'hinky'

[GODDESS6]

I think there is enough 'doubt' for at least a new trial......after reading the transcripts a few years back.....things seemed rather 'hinky'

nah, did ya read them here: http://callahan.8k.com/
the most unbiased site about the case~ i agree to disagree w/ you, the mockumentaries leave alot of questions, but when you delve into the actual case, they have the right 3~

[ZoeAnne]

nah, did ya read them here: http://callahan.8k.com/
the most unbiased site about the case~ i agree to disagree w/ you, the mockumentaries leave alot of questions, but when you delve into the actual case, they have the right 3~

Thanks....I will read when I get home from work.....I just would like to see justice for those little boys. They deserve it!

[Long Gone Day]

DEVIL'S KNOT is not fiction. It has more than 100 pages of copiously annotated endnotes in fact.



Not true. They found fibers that were "microscopically similar" to those on Jason's mother's robe and Damien's shirt, which may sound impressive to an Arkansas jury but really mean nothing. It only meant that they were the same kind of fibers as those found in clothing in almost any home in West Memphis- these are very poor people, their clothes came from Wal-Mart and Dollar General and similar places, the only thing the tests proved was that it was the same kind of material (a synthetic found at all Wal-Marts and Dollar Generals and most other chain stores) and the same color (red-a color found at all Wal-Marts and Dollar Generals and most other chain stores). It was NOT identified as being "from" the robe in question, but as similar to it.

Now, this begs the question: assuming it was from Jason's mom's robe, why in the world would fiber from Jason's mom's robe have been on the murder victims to begin with? She was never accused of having anything to do with the murders, she had an airtight alibi, and it's highly doubtful Jason would have been running around the woods with his mom's bathrobe when he decided, for no apparent reason, to kill three kids, and then takes the time to ditch the alleged black trench coat that you and others claim he got rid of, but puts his mom's bathrobe back into her closet, with absolutely no blood or hair or any other kind of evidence on it. Doesn't hold water at all.

There is no motive (save for some mumbo-jumbo about the occult cooked up by a charlatan with a mail order degree and fraudulent credentials and debunked instantly by real experts on the occult), it did not fit the behavior profiles drawn by the FBI crime labs of any of the boys and the boys did not fit the profile of the hypothetical killer also drawn by the FBI forensics lab, there is no hard evidence connecting the boys to the murder victims, what DNA evidence did exist indicates that the boys were NOT involved, and then there's the whole bizarre incident of BOJANGLES man (3 boys are bloodily murdered in a town where that doesn't happen, a deranged man COVERED IN BLOOD walks into the LADIES ROOM of a Bojangles fried chicken the same night, the police are called but DON'T EVEN COME INSIDE! And when they take blood samples from the blood left all over the ladies bathroom two days later... THEY LOSE THEM! BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION!

It's a gross miscarriage of justice from all sides.

Yup.

[GODDESS6]

Thanks....I will read when I get home from work.....I just would like to see justice for those little boys. They deserve it!

i talk to todd moore quite often, he is michael's father & a wonderful man~ he was recently remarried & i am very happy for him~

[Cat lady in training]

Originally it was said they had all been sexually assaulted due to the fact that their anuses were dilated. This was later revealed to be untrue; the dilation was due to being underwater, there was no evidence of rape or sexual assault of any kind, but one of the boys (the stepson of Byers) had been sexually mutilated (specifically he'd been emasculated; neither of the others had been.)

I'm not too sure where I sit with regard to the guilt or innocence of the WM3, but I find the case very interesting, and I wanted to post what I read in regard to the genital mutilations recently. Apparently the WM3 now have Dr. Micheal Baden (Chief Forensic Pathologist for NY State Police, but I'm sure all you hags know this!) as one of their witnesses on these hearings that began in August. He has testified that the wounds to the genitals were caused by animal predation, and not by knives.
Take that however you will. I think Baden is far more credible than the original pathologist, but this testimony really does nothing to determine who did or didn't do it. It definitely blows holes in the satanic ritual theory though.

[BelleRain]

heres the thing...First they are looking at photos of the victims, which to me, I would think looking at the actual body would be more clearer. This argument has been going on for 15 years. First it was a knife. Then if was bite marks. Then it was turtles. Now its dogs. Nobody can say for sure. Except maybe the man who actually looked at the bodies. I dont know if someone can really make an expert opinion on photos, I could be wrong, but I think it would be better if it was the actual body.

[Miho]

heres the thing...First they are looking at photos of the victims, which to me, I would think looking at the actual body would be more clearer. This argument has been going on for 15 years. First it was a knife. Then if was bite marks. Then it was turtles. Now its dogs. Nobody can say for sure. Except maybe the man who actually looked at the bodies.

Exactly! If you can't determine what caused an injury that is a big factor in your case then how the hell do you get a conviction on three guys?

[SheBoss]

Sorry, Cat-Lady, but here's what I think...

Baden = A-Ha Moment in Spector Trial = complete idiot, expert witness for hire. See also: NO Credibility. You will also find my opinion the same for Henry Lee and Vincent Di Maio.

I want to see the DNA results before I fall off my fence perch. Those results will really determine what side I fall on.

[BelleRain]

I think the Peritti, who actually looked at the bodies, is an expert on this. Alot of ppl will say he didnt know what he was doing. If youlook at his court transcripts, he was very knowledgable, and had other expert come in and see if he missed anything. BUt for these other experts, they are looking at pics. I think they have the right ppl in jail for sure. Im looking over all the trial stuff again, and I really think they have the right ones

[GODDESS6]

I think the Peritti, who actually looked at the bodies, is an expert on this. Alot of ppl will say he didnt know what he was doing. If youlook at his court transcripts, he was very knowledgable, and had other expert come in and see if he missed anything. BUt for these other experts, they are looking at pics. I think they have the right ppl in jail for sure. Im looking over all the trial stuff again, and I really think they have the right ones

i couldn't agree w/ your entire post more~

[SheBoss]

Goddess - I haven't gone through this whole thread in a while, but I could have sworn that you believed in their innocence. Was I mistaken?

[GODDESS6]

Goddess - I haven't gone through this whole thread in a while, but I could have sworn that you believed in their innocence. Was I mistaken?

you must be~ me, believe in their innocence?, NOPE NEVER, i am a non thru & thru & always have been~ all my posts in this thread should reflect just that~

i am a member of the west memphis three hoax board, but trust me, it's a non board, tho supporters are welcome~

http://www.downonthefarm.org/wm3hoax/board/index.php

[SheBoss]

you must be~ me, believe in their innocence?, NOPE NEVER, i am a non thru & thru & always have been~ all my posts in this thread should reflect just that~

I'm sure they do. I just forgot, it's been so long! Are you from around here? W Memphis is about 1:15 from me.

[GODDESS6]

I'm sure they do. I just forgot, it's been so long! Are you from around here? W Memphis is about 1:15 from me.

nope, i'm in omaha~ but have followed the case since it happened in 1993~ i talk w/ tood moore, michael moore's dad on occassion, he is a member of the board i posted & he has become a great friend~

it's just one of those cases it takes one awhile to wrap their head around & i have never been able to get the crime scene footage out of my head~ the story touched me & i have kept up on it all i can~

we have a member of the board who does live in west memphis & was able to go to the evidence room over about a years time & photograph alot of the evidence~

[SheBoss]

So is Damien any closure to his DNA test? Last I heard, he was up in arrears about one.

[GODDESS6]

So is Damien any closure to his DNA test? Last I heard, he was up in arrears about one.

i saw his wife sending out emails trying to round up the funds for one, but i don't think the judge is going to grant one~ so far in the last month, nothing in the courts has gone their way~ they are trying to retry the case by claiming now another person is guilty~ i just don't see any of it flying~

[SheBoss]

What forum are your on about this case? I'd like to read more. I just hate being on the fence about anything. I want a clear answer in my mind.

[GODDESS6]

What forum are your on about this case? I'd like to read more. I just hate being on the fence about anything. I want a clear answer in my mind.

http://www.downonthefarm.org/wm3hoax/board/index.php

[mdespain38]

I'm sure they do. I just forgot, it's been so long! Are you from around here? W Memphis is about 1:15 from me.

Sheboss where are you? I'm about 1:30 from West Memphis in Arkansas.

[BelleRain]

SheBoss, check out http://callahan.8k.com/ that will give u all the investigation notes, the trial tanscripts, everything.. It will show all that wasnt in the movies.

[GODDESS6]

SheBoss, check out http://callahan.8k.com/ that will give u all the investigation notes, the trial tanscripts, everything.. It will show all that wasnt in the movies.

fab unbiased site~ i have posted the link here several times~ they update it alot too, whenever something new happens~

[SheBoss]

Sheboss where are you? I'm about 1:30 from West Memphis in Arkansas.

I'm in Tupelo, MS - around 86 miles from Memphis. We're practically neighbors!

[SheBoss]

http://www.downonthefarm.org/wm3hoax/board/index.php

SheBoss, check out http://callahan.8k.com/ that will give u all the investigation notes, the trial tanscripts, everything.. It will show all that wasnt in the movies.

Thanks, Girls! I now have a lot of reading to do. I know the general gist of the crime, trial, sentence, but I don't know the little intricacies like evidence photos and such. This should be very helpful!

[mdespain38]

I'm in Tupelo, MS - around 86 miles from Memphis. We're practically neighbors!

How cool is that?

I worked for a criminal defense attorney in Jonesboro, AR at the time of these murders and my oldest son was the same age as the three little boys that were murdered. This was a tough case for me to follow. At the time I was sure the teens that were arrested and convicted were guilty. But things I've seen over the years have made me second guess that. Now I haven't followed it as closely as some of you on this thread and should do more follow up before I make any statements as to their innocence or guilt. It's a tough one.

[SheBoss]

How cool is that?

I worked for a criminal defense attorney in Jonesboro, AR at the time of these murders and my oldest son was the same age as the three little boys that were murdered. This was a tough case for me to follow. At the time I was sure the teens that were arrested and convicted were guilty. But things I've seen over the years have made me second guess that. Now I haven't followed it as closely as some of you on this thread and should do more follow up before I make any statements as to their innocence or guilt. It's a tough one.

It is indeed a tough one. My heart wants to say they didn't do it, but my head says they did. That's why I'm looking for more info. I just hate to be undecided!

[GODDESS6]

I'm in Tupelo, MS - around 86 miles from Memphis. We're practically neighbors!

Tupelo Honey~ i love that song~

[SheBoss]

Tupelo Honey~ i love that song~

Me, too!

[Mrs Tingles]

I don't believe these guys got a fair trial to begin with. I think a fair re-trial is needed. I do not think there is enough scientific evidence to re-convict these people.

[SheBoss]

So, Goddess or anyone, have you read the book "Devil's Knot"? I just started it tonight, but the author claims this is completely unbiased. This is the only WM3 book I could find for the Kindle. Anywho, what does everyone think of it?

[BelleRain]

I havent read that one. Is that the one by Mara? If it is, she is very much on the side of letting these guys out. But read it, just know that it isnt the whole story. Let me know what u think.

[BelleRain]

Heres a kinda break down of the book. I guess it might be a spoiler thing for ya, so if you wanna read the book first or whatever just warning ya

http://www.downonthefarm.org/wm3hoax...hp?topic=826.0

Its from the forum that Goddess and I are members of.

[GODDESS6]

So, Goddess or anyone, have you read the book "Devil's Knot"? I just started it tonight, but the author claims this is completely unbiased. This is the only WM3 book I could find for the Kindle. Anywho, what does everyone think of it?

yeah, i don't believe a word of it tho~ i got it for a dime somewhere~ damien's book is laughable too~

[SheBoss]

Hmmmm...I'm on Chapter 3 or 4. And I'm definately seeing a lot of Byers popping up. BUT - he does have a criminal record (as does his wife Melissa). So, if I were the cops, I would look harder at him as well. I'm not that far along, but I'll keep reading and see how it pans out.

Thanks for the links, Belle! They were very informative and at least now, I know to keep my eyes open throughout this book. Her forward does emphasize that this is a completely unbiased book, so it took that as true.

[GODDESS6]

Hmmmm...I'm on Chapter 3 or 4. And I'm definately seeing a lot of Byers popping up. BUT - he does have a criminal record (as does his wife Melissa). So, if I were the cops, I would look harder at him as well. I'm not that far along, but I'll keep reading and see how it pans out.

Thanks for the links, Belle! They were very informative and at least now, I know to keep my eyes open throughout this book. Her forward does emphasize that this is a completely unbiased book, so it took that as true.

she mentions byers as a suspect something like 250 times in the book & that stevie was bitten on the face by him~ it's now funny to me, that she is off on her tangent (along w/ others) of it being the other stepfather now & turtles or dogs~ the injuries she speaks of, mara & the like say were made while under water, so what is her dog theory?, that they wore tiny scuba masks to inflict these injuries?~

[BelleRain]

On the callahan site, you should read the transcripts of Jessie trial. all of his witnesses recanted their first statements. All of them all of a sudden come up with, "Oh ya, Now I remember, he was with me talking on the porch." then another one, "No he was with me talking to the police." (which the police never seen him there) then another one, "No he was wrestling with me, and i know for sure cause I paid a fee that day." turned out, that fee that was paid, was done the wednsday before, exactly one week before the murders. These are just some of the reasons for my belief in their guiltyness

[BelleRain]

One supporter belief is that Jessie was interrogated for so long. Jessie's own witness testifies that the time for interrogation was no problem. He would've interrogated him the same amount of time. This witness being a consultant for police officers in interrogation techniques.

[salvatore1989]

These guys are bunch of child killers. Just because a few Hollywood types support them in their B.S. story doesn't mean they should be given a new trial. Axle Rose is a supporter of Charles Manson, do you think Charlie should be released into the general public? Com'on

[BelleRain]

Exactly Sal. That stupid film showed nothing compared to what the trial really was. The film wanted ppl to think they were innocent and were hoping most ppl wouldnt do much of their own investigation.

[GODDESS6]

Exactly Sal. That stupid film showed nothing compared to what the trial really was. The film wanted ppl to think they were innocent and were hoping most ppl wouldnt do much of their own investigation.

i am so glad you brought this up & this has been a common thread in alot of my posts here~ if you just watch the films, it is easy to feel for the WM3, because they are so 1 sided & so much is left out~ for some reason, i am one of the few that wasn't on the fence because of the films, i always felt they were guilty~

i don't try & change anyone's feeling in regards to this case, we all have our own opinions & that is fine~ i do however have a hard time, when people haven't taken the time to actually go to callahan's a read the court documents & sift thru the evidence~ some supporters are still on the "john mark byers" did it schtick, not even knowing, that he was exonorated & has actually jumped ship, into being a supporter of the WM3, now pointing the finger at terry hobbs, stevie branch's stepfather~ & that is sad that jmb, is doing to terry exactly what was done to him all those years of himself being thought of by supporters as the real killer~

it wasn't a witch hunt that convicted these boys & jessie wasn't forced into confessing~ he confessed something like 8 times & after being convicted, confessed to the officers all the way to jail~ jessie may not be the brightest crayon in the box, but he isn't retarded as the defense is trying to portray now~


that being said, here is a link to an album made in dedication to the real victims, michael, stevie & christopher:

Hi Everyone,

Over the past two years, I have been self-producing an independent rock album related to this case. Today, I have finally made it available under the name â??3AM Highways,â?� which is the name of my band and the album. I am really happy with how it came out, and I think some of you will like it a lot, too.

The album is dedicated to Chris, Stevie, and Michael. Ultimately, that should be why we are here - to get justice for those boys and to expose the truth about what happened on May 5, 1993. These themes are present from start to finish in 3AM Highways.

You can listen to a few tracks on my myspace page (which I just set up). You can also buy the full CD (or download all the songs) at www.3amhighways.com. Given your interest in the WM3 case, I think you might find all of the songs interesting.

I owe a lot of thanks to many people from these boards, both â??nonsâ?� and â??supporters.â?� I have explicitly thanked some of you in the liner notes of the album, but there are many people who have contributed to my understanding of this case over the years. Exposing the truth is the right thing to do, and I think there are many people on these boards that have worked hard over the years to help do that.

I will try to post this message at some of the other boards, but if I miss a few please feel free to snag and drag.

Thanks,

Brannon - aka DogIsYourName - aka 3AM Highways
www.3amhighways.com
www.myspace.com/3amhighways

[SheBoss]

Just checking in - I'm still reading "Devil's Knot" and am on Chapter 19 or so. While Mara tries to paint an unbiased picture, it's clear she believes in the WM3's innocence. She's not (yet) pointing fingers at the elder Byers, but she's certainly showing the WM Police as little more than the Keystone Kops.

[SheBoss]

So - why would Vicki Hutchenson recant her story? 15 MORE minutes of fame? What's the general consensus of the nons? And Mark Byers? Why has he now come out and said these boys are innocent? Again, what do the nons say about this?

[GODDESS6]

So - why would Vicki Hutchenson recant her story? 15 MORE minutes of fame? What's the general consensus of the nons? And Mark Byers? Why has he now come out and said these boys are innocent? Again, what do the nons say about this?

the nons know that byers change of heart, has nothing to do w/ his stepson's murder anymore, but about money & staying in the media & being on tv~ he is still convinced & has said so, that hollywood is going to make a movie about him & brad pitt is going to play him~ that is a little insight into how the mind of john mark byers works~ did you know that shops around town had set a fund for the parents & john mark byers went around town clearing the monies out?~ no one else got anything from the donations~

& here is how todd moore feels about vicky:

awe she decided not to testify...she is soooooo full of shit it makes ones head spin. Come on Vicky what are you scared of??? if you were treated the way you say by the WMPD surely you are willing to do the "right thing" today or is this just more of your attention whore BS that sounds good until you find out you can be in some serious legal problems if you keep talking your BS that supporters lap up as they do with that idiot byers as if he has a clue what the hell he is talking about (don't get me started on his expertise about the wildlife in or around a neighborhood I grew up in) I am simply amazed the defense is SOOOOOO fucking desperate that they would call that idiot to the stand as if he had any idea what the hell he is talking about but then again this is all about him being an attention whore who wants to feel important and get his 15 minutes of fame cause he knows idiot supporters like his lap dog rugs will hang on every word as if Gospel. I just don't know why vicky who talks such a big game about how she was "forced" to say things she did back then by the WMPD that she NOW is not willing to back up her BS on the stand.... maybe she should rethink just how committed she is to these 3 murdering bastards release to be willing to what she claims is the "right thing to do" or maybe she should just shut the fuck up and admit how she fucked up raising her children and putting them in the middle of this just to get her ass out of some hot checks...shameful, very shameful. Seriously who in the hell takes her word for anything these days she is about as silly as byers is and we all know how he is laughed at every time he opens his mouth, his post do not pass for what a 3rd grader would post can he really be that illiterate, you would think jackie would type everything for him... one questions is he just stoned or stupid?
We are still waiting on that F-5.... let me guess the defense is still waiting on federal court? awe man that is funny are you guys really that stupid??? YEP! you are.

[SheBoss]

Not to be ugly, Goddess, but who is Todd Moore again? And why is he desparaging Byers as illiterate when I had to read his post 3 times to figure out what he was saying? Pot, meet Kettle.

FYI to you and Belle - I'm not falling off the fence, but these are questions I'm coming up against when reading the book and researching different sites. I'm on y'alls forum now reading some posts (it seems to be one of a very few that is not WM3 supporters), but you know how forums are. When you are looking for info, sometimes you have to wade through a lot of stuff you don't know about yet to get to the answers you need. It can get very confusing! Especially since this is "ongoing" and not a case closed type of thing - what with appeals, DNA, people recanting after 16 years and the like.

[GODDESS6]

Not to be ugly, Goddess, but who is Todd Moore again? And why is he desparaging Byers as illiterate when I had to read his post 3 times to figure out what he was saying? Pot, meet Kettle.

FYI to you and Belle - I'm not falling off the fence, but these are questions I'm coming up against when reading the book and researching different sites. I'm on y'alls forum now reading some posts (it seems to be one of a very few that is not WM3 supporters), but you know how forums are. When you are looking for info, sometimes you have to wade through a lot of stuff you don't know about yet to get to the answers you need. It can get very confusing! Especially since this is "ongoing" and not a case closed type of thing - what with appeals, DNA, people recanting after 16 years and the like.

he is michael moore's father, one of the 3 young boys murdered, he knows & has dealt w/ byers personally as you would imagine seeing as their kids were murdered together~ & yes our site is one of the few non sites out there, but everyone w/ an opinion is welcomed & not attacked as i have been when trying to ask questions on supporter sites~

reading devil's knot gave me questions too, which i found the answers looking at callahan's, but seeing as mara herself, has went another direction now, in thinking whose guilty, i wonder if she'll pen another book, pointing the finger at terry hoobs now?, since that is what she is saying now~

[SheBoss]

I'm so freaking confused. People are changing their minds left and right and I truly believe all these people from WM must be related somehow - I'm finding many of them have the same last names so it's really hard to keep all the "characters" straight. So now, Mara has changed her mind and believes Terry Hobbs is guilty? And Byers thinks Terry Hobbs is guilty? And Damien, Jason and Jessie still think they are all innocent? Lord, help...

I've found a thread (you posted on it) from your other forum entitled "A Question for the Supporters" asking why they think Damien is guilty. So far, all I can see is the nons talking about Damien being a "fag". I'll keep reading, but I'm not seeing a good answer to that question yet.