Originally Posted by JefeStone
One of the witnesses whose backyard the actual shooting happened in, stated that if they were a scuffle that night, that it took place at a different section in the community from where he actually ending up shot at. When he was shot he was just steps away from his father's home, and was heading in that direction, my guess is he was fleeing with Zimmerman still in pursuit.
I still don't think stealing makes it right to shoot this kid.
to wrongs does not make one right
I don't think Miho is saying that the fact Trayvon allegedly stole means he deserved to get shot, but he is saying that Trayvon might not be as innocent in this situation as his parents and the media would like for us to believe. Like I said, if he was a drug dealer or a thief or even a fucking acrobat, it shouldn't matter. If he was walking home, on the phone, minding his own business and he was shot--that's a problem and nothing excuses it. But--there may be more to the story, and we'll just have to hang tight until we find that out.
Renowned Death Hag
There is no clear cut right or wrong in this case.
IMHO
Zimmerman should not have shot Trayvon, he should have just reported it to the police and let them do their job.
Trayvon should not have beaten Zimmerman to the point that he felt he needed to use his gun.
From what I have read about Trayvon, he was not the sweet angel that the press is portraying him to be. One of his friends had posted on his facebook recently about a beating he (Trayvon) gave a bus driver recently. He had been expelled for 10 days from school for some reason. It is tragic and it should have never happened, but there are two sides to this story.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Renowned Death Hag
SO all of you with kids want them to follow directions from a stranger on the street and go with him willingly? If Zimmerman tried stopping me I would tell him to go fuck himself. If he tried to detain me, he better shoot me because I would put up a fight and I can hit a lot harder than 140 pound Trayvon
Last edited by JefeStone; 03-27-2012 at 01:21 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
And there's the problem. I, myself, me...I haven't put anyone through anything...
Renowned Death Hag
Zimmerman called 911 for a 7-8 yearo old black girl being on the sidewalk. Should we get her school records too? Maybe she was slangin weed too. Maybe she hit her pre school teacher before.
Exactly. GZ was a paranoid delusional, and possibly a racist. And I made a comment earlier that's similar to yours, Jefe--if someone was following me for no reason, I'm always armed to the teeth. I would have given GZ a lot more fucking trouble than he was probably looking for. Wish Tray could have done the same (if that indeed was how the incident happened.)
[QUOTE=shipmatekate;1272794]Right. Like I said, HE doesn't live in that neighborhood.
LOL! Yep--Little Miss began her "gangsta" career in kindergarten--holding the other kids up for their milk and cookies and making them pay her daily for the nap mats.
[QUOTE=Scatter;1273105]Doesn't matter. The majority of children in the US have divorced parents, and thus most likely would be visiting a home that wasn't their permanent residence quite often. It's not like Tray was some thug randomly walking through a neighborhood, he was a teenager on the phone with his young girlfriend on the way back to his father's house. Not threatening, not out of place--unless you're crazy ass George Zimmerman.
[QUOTE=MetalHeadBettie;1273109]Don't get me wrong.........I agree with you on your essential point, as I've stated already. Zimmerman had ZERO business stalking this kid. If he stays at home and just makes his 51st 911 call and goes back to watching People's Court, this never would have happened.
I'm only stating the blatantly obvious point that it's not unreasonable for someone in a high crime area to keep an eye on someone walking around their neighborhood that he doesn't recognize. What IS unreasonable is for wanna-be Marshall Dillon to follow and confront the kid carrying a gun.
If you aggressively court the media, expect your dead child's dirty laundry to be aired. Even if you choose to tell the Reverend windbag and Fox News to fuck off, you still have to know that it's all going to come out. Having the world know your kid fucked up isn't the end of the world and doesn't make his death less tragic. That being said, a thinking person can accept the fact that Trayvon was less than saintly and file it where it belongs; under completely irrelevant.
This guy Zimmerman..... god he bothers me. His whole history (at least what we know), is ten thousand red flags. Never in a million years should he have been able to get his hands on a gun.
Renowned Death Hag
[QUOTE=Scatter;1273105]And that makes it ok to shoot him???
If his father lives in the neighborhood he has most likely been there before this...........
Renowned Death Hag
[QUOTE=MetalHeadBettie;1273109]Just to clarify Scatter said this, not me.
[QUOTE=shipmatekate;1273118]Try reading the rest of my posts and getting some context before responding. Let me help you........
Scatter said,"Don't get me wrong.........I agree with you on your essential point, as I've stated already. Zimmerman had ZERO business stalking this kid. If he stays at home and just makes his 51st 911 call and goes back to watching People's Court, this never would have happened.
I'm only stating the blatantly obvious point that it's not unreasonable for someone in a high crime area to keep an eye on someone walking around their neighborhood that he doesn't recognize. What IS unreasonable is for wanna-be Marshall Dillon to follow and confront the kid carrying a gun."
See?? Reading is fundamental.
[QUOTE=shipmatekate;1273119]Just to clarify, I did NOT say that. Again, read a bit more carefully. The quote you posted IS NOT from me.The header CLEARLY reads MetalHeadBettie.
Last edited by Scatter; 03-27-2012 at 02:23 PM.
It's all about perception.
Anyone can perceive a threat from anything. If I'd been held up and sexually assaulted by a 4' 80 year old grandmother, I could perceive the next little old lady coming down the block as a threat. Zimmerman clearly thought he was up against a hood, and Trayvon probably thought he was going to be attacked.
The thing is, Zimmerman had the choice to call 911, turn around, go back to the safety of his house and let the professionals deal with the threat. As I understand it he had no real reason to believe he was in imminent physical danger.
Buahahaha. Yes, it is, Scatter. And I see what you're saying as well. Do we know for a fact this was considered a "high crime" neighborhood? I'm not familiar with the area at all. It is not unreasonable for someone in a high crime area to be cautious. But like you said, it is super unreasonable for an insane gun-slinging delusional to appoint himself head of neighborhood watch and nance about in the dark looking for trouble.
And I was not the one responsible for that quote either, read MY posts. I quoted someone else.
Perfectly stated. He certainly wasn't in imminent danger inside his house, where he belonged.
I just quoted the post quoted to me that was quoting you quoting somebody else.
Senior Death Hag
This case is going to be a huge thing no matter the outcome. I hate that race has been brought into this. Zimmerman should have NEVER said "Fucken coons." Right there he turned this into race. It should have NEVER been about race.
If you look at the facts, and not the race, it seems with what reports we have, that both were in the wrong, but, made it so much more worse when he pulled that gun. I would NEVER want my son to go with any tom dick or harry just because he says im a neighborhood watch. I would teach my child to run away, and fight back if he had to. But, if we had a neighborhood watch, I would be involved with it, and the watch people would know who my children were, and who I was. Not saying Trayvon's parents shouldve done that. It is just what I would do. And really this guy was his own neighborhood watch person.
I wonder if this guy had seen this kid before and thought he was a little thug by the way he dressed or whatever, so when he saw him again, he already had that in his mind that this kid had to be some thug causing problems. Not saying Trayvon did cause problems, but some people see young adults, see the way are dressed and assume they are nasty thugs cauing problems.
Our society has gotten so violent. First thing anyone does is pick up a gun now. It scares the shit outta me, as Ive already been shot, I really dont want to go thru it again. But I worry every time I leave in my car, am I gonna piss someone off today and they will come shooting after me? Am I going to be in a store and at the same time it will be robbed? As a woman, if Im walking some where, and some guy is following me, Im going to be uncomfortable because im scared this person is going to hurt me. It could be some white guy, some black guy, some hispanic guy, its just that it is a man, and Im a small woman alone. Kids cant go off by themselves anymore riding bikes for fear of being kidnapped.
I have heard the recording and I personally can clearly hear him say Fuggin punks. I don't hear where it could even be mistaken for "coons".
To each his/her own, but personal opinions can differ greatly and this whole case is going to be one of those cases.
I'm in the unique situation of having one Hispanic child (girl, 17), one white/Hispanic child (boy,11), and one black child (boy,2). I'm white, married a Hispanic woman with a little girl, we had a boy together, and we adopted our foster child who's black,who we've had since he was 3 days old. So I have some anxiety over these issues. But I also realize that we've come a long way too. 50 years ago a family like mine would have been run out of town on a rail or worse. If the Sharptons and Jacksons of this world would just go back to cheating on their wives and bilking the ignorant and keep off the TV, we'd all be better off.
So strange that the media decides what is a racial crime!
Couldn't be racially motivated.... No way! Hell, i didn't even hear about this by the media back then! Wonder why???Wall Photos
FROM OUR "WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE" FILES: Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23 and Chan...non Gail Christian, 21... finished having dinner, minding their own business on January 6th 2007 were...
-Carjacked...
-Kidnapped...
Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23:
-is repeatedly sodomized, girlfriend is forced to watch...
-beaten...
-is set on fire and shot...
Channon Gail Christian, 21:
"Channon's death came only after hours of sexual torture, medical examiner Mileusnic-Polchan testified. Channon suffered horrific injuries to her vagina, anus and mouth.
She was not only raped but savaged with "an object," possibly a broken chair leg, the doctor testified. She was beaten in the head.
Some type of chemical was poured down her throat, and her body, including her bleeding and battered genital area, likely scrubbed with the same solution - all while Channon WAS ALIVE, the forensic expert said.
She was then "hog-tied," with curtains and strips of bedding, her face covered tightly with a small trash bag and her body stashed inside five large trash bags before being placed inside a large trash can and covered with sheets.
Channon died slowly, suffocating, the medical examiner said...
Do your research on this story... and when you find the "snopes" link, pay attention to how it's "sanitized"... and if you're able to grasp the mumble-jumble version of their facts...
http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?s=6023706See More
By: Big City Cops
Death Hag
There was lots of publicity and press coverage about this terrible crime, and I heard a lot of outrage. The coverage wasn't sanitized, either.
I too wonder why you didn't hear about it.
Renowned Death Hag
I saw the story a while back on Dateline or 48 hrs. This has to be one of the most horrific crimes I've EVER heard of. I swear, by the end of the show, I was in tears, and just wondered how people could be so cruel. These people were minding their own business, then all hell broke loose. Oh, and I think I remember them saying that those monsters even stole the engagement ring that the victim was going to give his gf that night. They basically taunted him while doing it... horrible! I, too didn't hear of this story on the news. I had to wait until it came on one of these news programs to hear anything about it.
Last edited by Jenivere2011; 03-27-2012 at 03:20 PM.
This is an excellent case for a cause. Numerous ones actually: Handgun laws, Stand your ground, police procedures.... the list goes on and on.
Unfortunately the only one it shouldn't be about, race, is what it became.
Renowned Death Hag
[QUOTE=Scatter;1273120]
And IS IT a high crime area? Or just another delusion from this sick asshole?
There's a source further up thread that says the neighborhood had issues with break ins.
I too have heard about it as well, and the sick perps in this case, are locked up where they should be. GZ needs to be right beside them...
Renowned Death Hag
I have lived in an area that had "issues with break ins"
Wasn;t a high crime area, just a rash of trouble for a few weeks.
Thanks!
Yeah I wondered about that descriptor too. Were they violent hold ups or were people robbed when they weren't home? Big difference in reaction.
Hes dead, so the AP asked for it an got it:
Also Monday, state Department of Juvenile Justice confirmed that Martin does not have a juvenile offender record. The information came after a public records request by The Associated Press
I didnt link to the site, but you can find it by google
I would do the exact thing you stated here. And my child would never listen to anything a stranger said on the street (shes too young to be alone on the street anyway)
Zimmerman was less than a door shaker. He had no business following anyone.
Okay this just pisses me off:
Despite being told by police dispatchers he did not need to follow Martin, the armed Zimmerman did so; when he confronted him they wrestled and Martin was shot once in the chest, dying at the scene. Zimmerman claimed self-defense under Florida’s “stand your ground” law and that Martin attacked him.
Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee has said Zimmerman was not arrested because there is no probable cause to dispute Zimmerman’s claim of self defense
Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/21/...#ixzz1qMQsLh86
No probable cause? He was told NOT to follow. He didn't listen and HE provoked the altercation. Wtf ever happened to logic?
AND IF THAT WASN'T DUMB ENOUGH:
Another moron heard from.
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2012-03...ust-a-coverup/
Zimmerman is batshit. No offense intended toward bats or shit.
Sorry.
That is how I feel as of right now on that fellow.
Once the New Black Panther Party put out a bounty of sorts on Zimmerman, it made me realize that this whole unfortunate situation with the late Trayvon Martin has become just too political for words.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2012/03....-Who-are-they
Jenivere, the crime you are referring to where the thugs stole the engagement ring is an entirely different crime than Channon and Chris and just as horrific, if not worse. It got swept under the rug and many people have never even heard of it.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/n...ers/index.html
Senior Death Hag
I would like to make some points here. Personally, I don't care if Trayvon smoked weed or listened to Bach or Tupac. These are the relevant points:
1) He was out walking the street that night after getting some snack food from a local store. (Imagine how the relative that requested that of him feels right now).
He was not casing the neighborhood. He was walking like any normal person from Point A to Point B.
2) He told his girlfriend on the phone that he felt someone following him.
3) George Zimmerman noticed him. He called the police to report a suspicious person in the neighborhood. While on the phone with the dispatcher, he made a racial remark. He ignored the dispatcher's advice to not follow Trayvon. He did follow him armed with a gun. (At that point, if I were the police I would be more worried about Zimmerman than Trayvon).
4)Trayvon gets shot. The police arrived. Did they rope off the area and do a forensic investigation to see if the physical scene matched Zimmerman's story? To my knowledge, they did not. Did they take Zimmerman to the police station, question him more, taken pictures of his injuries, took his clothing as forensic evidence. To my knowledge, they did not. They had a teenager lying dead in the street. What does it say about the value they placed on Trayvon's life that they did not do a thorough investigation.
This is why I am angry about this story. Zimmerman seems to have instigated this situation and bears some responsibility for what happened. It could be manslaughter or negligient homicide rather than murder. Put yourself in Trayvon's mindset- he's 17, it is dark out with nobody around save for a guy who appears to be following him for no good reason. He has nothing to defend himself with except snack food while the other guy has a gun. The situaiton reeks of tragedy and misguided thinking.
Last edited by sierrarose; 03-27-2012 at 05:07 PM.
Thank you.
White guilt is as bad as overt racism.
Not really. When they were retried it was in the new a little more bc of the lesser charges.
Renowned Death Hag
Hornets nest or not, the objective facts -- based on the 911 tapes -- tell us that Zimmerman pursued this guy. No matter what happened in the intervening moments, it doesn't erase the fact that Zimmerman was looking for something. When you pursue someone -- and you have no authority to do so -- when then that person retaliates against you (if that is what happened here), you have no right to then say that you shot the guy in self defense. If Zimmerman had not been playing vigilante panties, none of this would have ever occurred. For that reason, I believe Zimmerman is responsible for this boys death.
Renowned Death Hag
Those shirts exist. Have you ever been to a gun show? There is always at least one booth selling white supremacist gear and other offensive materials. I am not basing this on hearsay. I've seen it with my own eyes. In fact, when I lived in Louisiana -- New Orleans, of all places -- bumper stickers were popping up in public places that said, "If I'd have known this would happen, I'd have picked my own cotton." Have you seen some of the racist posters featuring Barack Obama? Better yet, have you heard some of the tea party rhetoric?
When it comes to racism and mudslinging, red, yellow, black, and white do it.
Last edited by KCBee; 03-27-2012 at 07:25 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
very well put
Renowned Death Hag
Still wondering what you think of Zimmerman getting out of his car and instigating this................
Renowned Death Hag
I think that is painting with a wide brush. Some minorities, if not most, don't feel the way you describe. That's the same as if I believed all white people were racists. The world would be so much better if we could see and evaluate people as individuals. Reading this thread makes me want to go jump off a bridge!
Death Hag Extraordinaire
From what I see this whole saga is a case of trial by media. As in a court case, the first thing to do is try to discredit the character of the protagonists. This is why the school reports, twitter posts, baggy smelling of weed etc is all being trolled up. It is a smear campaign.
To me, the problem with this whole case is that Zimmerman pursued Trayvon AFTER the alleged altercation. If he had have shot him at the time of the altercation, then it probably would sit better with me. But being assaulted (or whatever actually happened) and then pursuing someone to fatally shoot them doesn't constitute self defense to me, and isn't that the basis of the law?
Last edited by neilmpenny; 03-27-2012 at 06:53 PM.
I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny
Exactly. No matter what, it comes down to the fact that Zimmerman made the choice to follow and escalate the situation. That makes him guilty of causing the death as far as I'm concerned.
Renowned Death Hag
Punks? Huh? I heard it too (many times) and I sure didn't hear THAT. Not even close.
Here it is.....isolated by an audio engineer at CNN.....NO "P" sound, NO "K" sound:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-isola...rtin-911-call/
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Casper, I love you so much baby boy... waking up with you in the house is a blessing every day! Thank you for filling our home and hearts with so much love, joy, laughter and ever so sweet Sammy smiles! We belong together! XOXOX
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