Its a good think vivien got her own way eh! Trust me ...stick with the book...its worth it!
Waterloo Bridge is such a beautiful film, Its my favorite Film of her's! It was Robert Taylors film and he is her beautiful co star! Its B&W but there is a colourised version which Id tune down to B&W haha! The film is hauntingly beautiful and Viviennes acting is very good!
Shes great in Waterloo Bridge too.
She was such a gorgeous lady, those killer cheekbones!
Theres and anecdote that i love and cracks me up because id never expect those words coming out of Vivien's mouth:When she was working in GWTW, she was quite mad that she couldnt see Olivier for weeks, it was the beggining of their romance and they were crazy for each other. One day , Selznick decided to let her go visit Laurece for a few days who i believe was in the UK during those days. When she came back to the studio , Selznick asked her how did the visit go and Vivien's answer was, literally:
"[SIZE=2]Oh David, I'm so grateful to you." "Larry met me in the hotel lobby, and we went upstairs, and we fucked, and we fucked, and we fucked the whole weekend."
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I live on Hilton Head Island which is an "upscale community" I guess, a couple here have built an exact replica of Tara. Even went so far as get "plans" from the MGM. It cost $25 million, overlooks the ocean, and is a sight to see. They have even called it "Tara".
Some people just have too much money.
Viv did have bi-polar disorder, and it only got worse because she used method acting, in combination with Ralph Greenson's "psychiatry". Method is the technique used in acting that uses your own real feelings. The actors were taught to dredge up bad feeling and memories to make their performance all the more real. That method screwed up alot of mentally fragile people, including Marilyn Monroe. Also, remember that Greenson was also Marilyn's psychiatrist. Obviously, he didn't know what the hell he was doing. He, in essence, killed Marilyn, and he made Vivian go crazy.
Erin you are brilliant ......You need to write a book.I have always blamed Greeson...always.
Vivien Leigh a Method actress? I've never heard that before-where did you get that info? I know I've read that Olivier was very anti-Method, and I would have assumed the same went for Vivien.
And where did you get the info that she was Greenson's patient?
Even if she was his patient, he did not make her crazy. She was never crazy, she was bipolar. There's a difference. And, in the last years of her life, after the divorce from Olivier, she functioned quite well. Jack Merivale attested to that in several books.
I didn't take the book or the movie that way. I took it as he gave her a little action instead of words like Ashley!!! I just honestly would never have dreamed that situation out of that scene-- or consider it rape. OMG I can't believe a rape poster was created out of that scene!
So amazing that scene would be considered a rape scene. I never thought of it being a rape scene and I used to help at the rape crisis center. I still do not consider that to be true. She may have been pounding and fighting all the way up the stairs but that was her nature in the film. She always played hard to get with him. I can't buy that. Sorry
Rape never even entered my mind about that scene until I came across this thread. And I think it is utterly ludicrous to think of it that way.
During the Olympics in 1996, we all had to endure the question "Now, where exactly is Tara?". There was alot of talk about building a Gone with the Wind theme park, prior to the Olympics, but it never materialized. As far as the fictional location of Tara, when Scarlett writes the property tax check, it is made out to the Tax Collector of Clayton County, which is a county just south of Atlanta.
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I know I replying to this quote over 2 months later but I have to ask. Did Carole Lombard really say that?! They were married and totally in love with each other. He went ballistic when her plane crashed - he wanted to go search the wreckage for her. Would she have really have said such a thing about her husband who she, by all accounts, loved?
Vivien was an unusual creature, she loved to play games and how to kill babies sounds like ....um fun!
But Vivian had exhibited signs of mania and depression long before she would have ever encountered Greeson. Her tuberculosis exascerbated the mental distress! Even during the making of GWTW she was showing her illness! Greeson was a quack but Vivian was unwell decades before he was involved. I think he was more of a blight on Marilyn than Vivian! Maybe he preyed on unstable beautiful women!
She was raped by Rhett when she came back from Ms. Melanie's party for Ashley. They argued downstairs and he was drunk. He said, semi quote "You have turned me out while you chased after Ashley Wilkes, while you've dreamed of Ashley Wilkes. Well this is one night you're not turning ME out!" He grabs her and against her will, takes her to the bedroom where they ....apparently do the nasty! lol!
KELT' HOME FOR WAYWARD YOUTH-
Helping Young Men To Turn Around For Over Twenty Years !
KELT' HOME FOR WAYWARD YOUTH-
Helping Young Men To Turn Around For Over Twenty Years !
Wow, I can't imagine saying such a thing about my husband - except possibly to my closest friend and I know it would never go any further than that. But, even then I'm not sure I would - it seems so disloyal....
I mean I would be most unhappy to find out my husband was telling his friends that my tw** was a black hole or something! Sheesh!
But, you are probably right considering that it has come from a variety of different sources. It appears she repeated this comment to more than one person. Hollywood is just a different world, I guess......
That Hamilton Woman was on ABC here in Australia late last night! It was better than I remember it being and the chemistry between Larry and Viv was there. She looked lovely and it was hard to take your eyes off her.
Thats what I like about Vivien Leigh!
There was a discussion about this about the "conjugal rape scene" on tv few years back..and the way those involved had talked it was about power..and him taking it from her and not denying him anymore for ashley..sexually and otherwise ..so he was going to "take it" .. as strong willed as she was..so no matter how happy she was the next day lol...it still was a rape dontcha think.. after all isnt rape more about the power and less about the sex...at least thats what i was always told..( every week on law and order)..ive considered it that from the first time i saw it..i know others dont see it that way..but thats what makes movies fun ..we see things differently and take something different away from it..this is a great thread
She wasn't raped in GWTW. That was the whole point.
Its hard to express in words but I felt it was more of a very primal seduction! I like many are very sensitive to the suggestion or otherwise of rape in film!
She didnt appear like she was raped the next morning in her bed smiling like a cheshire cat and very smitten with Rett!
I guess that scene really answers any doubt as to whether she was raped or not!
Last edited by cherryghost; 07-05-2008 at 06:14 AM.
I disagree. You are viewing that scene post-feminism. Back in our Grandma's time, it wasn't expected that a woman would submit to sex with her husband and would never dream of turning him down. It was a different time and would not have been considered "rape" per se. There was no such thing as rape in marriage until about 20 years ago.
Fast forward and take that scene and put it in today's context using say a Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt and what do you have? No means no, and Angelina is beating the crap out of Brad Pitt who is taking her upstairs for sex. That is a rape scene.
I love how everyone has a different opinion on that scene..shows how so many can watch one movie and see so many different things..makes no one right and no one wrong..love to hear all the takes on it
I saw a bio on Vivien Leigh years ago and perhaps it was rooted more in sensationalism than fact, but it basically made the claim she was severely mentally ill. She would sort of become other people for period of time, sort of like a multiple personality disorder. Laurence Olivier once had to drag her out of a bar where she was dressed like a whore trying to find sailors to sleep with. She claimed a few days later she had no knowledge of the event. One of the most interesting bios I ever saw but I don't remember what it was on.
I never took that as a rape scene. Especially since she was so happy about it the next day. I took it as a seduction. I can see why people, especially now a days, could consider it a rape. Back when it was written-I don't think it was looked at as a rape. Just he'd had enough-his wife had actually been having a mental affair with Ashley for years.
I had no idea that Quack Ralph Greenson was Vivian's Psychiatrist! Yeah he really screwed up Marilyn big time and back then they didn't have the medication they do now to treat Bi Polar disorder.