Vivien Leigh

[qulevergrrl]

Please don't kill me if there already is one, but I searched and searched first...

Anyway, I think the strangest thing about Ms. Leigh is not necessarily how she lived or died, but the roles she chose. Maybe they chose her.

She oddly enough played two southern women who were raped. Both of those films are in AFI's top 20. GWTW of course, and Streetcar Named Desire. I think that is kind of a bizarre coicidence. Or choice. Must have taken a strong constitution for her to get into those characters.

Also, there is a thread on Butterfly McQueen. GWTW was controversial in and of itself. There are people who won't even watch it to this day. She had to buck the tiger in that whole scene too.

Anyone?

[Kathyf]

I loved her. I think she died from TB and was bi-polar.

[Bidmor]

I'm still in awe of her great southern accent in GWTW...no hint of Brit...besides being a babe in her prime.

[leevancleef]

when is she raped in GWTW?

[Zombiegirl]

"Gone with the Wind' is one of my all-time favorites. I never get tired of watching it, no matter how many times I've seen it. Because I am such a huge fan of Vivien Leigh, I rented all the movies I could find with her in it. I don't think she was raped in GWTW. She was attacked in what they referred to as "shanty town", but Big Sam saved her. Also, I could have sworn she played a prostitute in one of her films, but when I went to look on imdb.com I couldn't find it. Maybe it was her roommate in the film that was the prostitute. Has anyone seen this movie, and know the title?

qulevergrrl - I do have a question about your comment regarding Butterfly McQueen. What exactly do you mean by "buck the tiger"?

[MorbidMolly]

when is she raped in GWTW?

I`ve seen that movie a thousand times, and I`ve seen no rape...if your talking about Rhett kicking ass and taking her up those stairs, I wouldn`t call that rape....obviously by her charming southern humming the next day .....have I missed something ????

[kelbons]

"Gone with the Wind' is one of my all-time favorites. I never get tired of watching it, no matter how many times I've seen it.

Mine too! I first read that book when I was in sixth grade and must have seen the movie about seven hundred times. What an epic!!

[Zombiegirl]

I`ve seen that movie a thousand times, and I`ve seen no rape...if your talking about Rhett kicking ass and taking her up those stairs, I wouldn`t call that rape....obviously by her charming southern humming the next day .....have I missed something ????

Those scenes are two of my favorites in the film!

[Bidmor]

I`ve seen that movie a thousand times, and I`ve seen no rape...if your talking about Rhett kicking ass and taking her up those stairs, I wouldn`t call that rape....obviously by her charming southern humming the next day .....have I missed something ????

Scarlet was one happy camper the next morning.

[Zombiegirl]

Mine too! I first read that book when I was in sixth grade and must have seen the movie about seven hundred times. What an epic!!

I remember when the 50th Anniversary Edition came out on VHS quite a few years back. My son saved up his money to buy that for me for Mother's Day. He was only 16 years old and the thing cost eighty bucks. That touched me beyond words. He even went and saw it with me at a local theater here when it was released after it had been restored. He had zero interest in that movie but sat through it because he knew I wanted to see it. What a great kid!

[Zombiegirl]

Scarlet was one happy camper the next morning.

She SURE was! LOL

[Zombiegirl]

I tell ya though....."I" would have been a happy camper too if I got to fuck Clark Gable, LOL

[MorbidMolly]

I tell ya though....."I" would have been a happy camper too if I got to fuck Clark Gable, LOL

True that....

[knothere]

[leevancleef]

True that....

haha, me too i dont care if he had a little one as Carole Lombard said!

[Linnythepooh]

I remember when the 50th Anniversary Edition came out on VHS quite a few years back. My son saved up his money to buy that for me for Mother's Day. He was only 16 years old and the thing cost eighty bucks. That touched me beyond words. He even went and saw it with me at a local theater here when it was released after it had been restored. He had zero interest in that movie but sat through it because he knew I wanted to see it. What a great kid!

That was really sweet of him.

[Linnythepooh]

haha, me too i dont care if he had a little one as Carole Lombard said!

I would pass on that one, not because of Clark Jr. but apparently he had a stinky breath.

[Catherine of Siena]

Speaking of GWTW, it is said that Clark Gable suffered from extreme tinymeat. We find this hard to believe.

[Bidmor]

haha, me too i dont care if he had a little one as Carole Lombard said!

Over in the Gable thread, poppie posted:
"He and Joan Crawford had an on going affair that lasted many years, even thru their marriages. Someone asked her what made Gable so special, after all a man is a man. Crawford replied yes, that is true and that all men are alike. Except, for testicles. All men had them, but when Gable walked, his clacked together."

So who knows...Carole may have made her remark in an attempt to discourage as many other women as possible. Then again Crawford may have been defending Gable's equipment reputation...either remark could easily be total b.s.

[Katie]

I loved GWTW and Vivian. I could watch it a thousand times, and not get tired.

Trivia: There was never a Tara in Atlanta, or out side Atlanta. For a time, a Governor's wife told people her house was Tara, but it was built much later.

[FloridaDeathHag]

She really lost her mind after Streetcar. I'm not sure whether she ever got over playing that character or she was a mental time-bomb waiting to happen anyway. I guess we'll never know.

[MorbidMolly]

She was believed to be bi-polar....Sir Lawrence went through lot with her for many many years.....they eventually split, but when he learned of her death he was devastated....what a couple...

[Jazbabee]

I don't know the dynamics associated with vocal coaches, but I do remember reading on more than one occasion that British and Southern accents are actually very interchangeable. I believe it had to do with rhythm/cadence and that it was fairly easy for a Brit to do a good Southern accent and vice versa.....go figure ????

I'm still in awe of her great southern accent in GWTW...no hint of Brit...besides being a babe in her prime.

[malaki]

Beautiful woman and great flick.....Clark must've not been all that small or he wouldn't have had all these torrid affairs....Someone's bullshit'n...

[MorbidMolly]

Beautiful woman and great flick.....Clark must've not been all that small or he wouldn't have had all these torrid affairs....Someone's bullshit'n...

Here, here....

[qulevergrrl]

when is she raped in GWTW?

"This is one night you won't turn me out, Scarlette." cut to the next day..."...and she trembled with fright at his frown."

All the way up the stairs, she his hitting and fighting him (Rhett). Maybe we all think the little snot deserved it, but she was fighting him nonetheless. No means no, remember. Anyway, I remember the poster in the rape crisis center at school with that scene photo on it with the caption below it. I can't get it out of my mind ever since. She was fighting him and he was saying, "you aren't going to 'turn me out' tonight". Date rape. She was all giggles the next day because he had "taken" her. He had "overcome" her. He had "enraptured" her. Or "rapture". Or "rape". The origin of the word rape is rapture which means to be overcome or overwhelmed or overtaken. I think that scene pretty much hits the nail on the head. That poster is online as one of the first and most popular date rape posters. I can't take credit for it.

As aweful as this sounds...if I truly believe in the symbolism of that scene I should despise it, right? Wrong. I love that film. That is what men did back then. Just like women like Scarlette would slap their servants/slaves, which is sickening to me. But we can't ignore history. I don't revere it, but I do enjoy great period representations, and damned if that isn't one.

As for Butterfly McQueen, what a hero. She told the director that she would only scream if Vivien would NOT slap her. If Vivien truly hit her, she wouldn't let out a peep. IF Vivien pretended to hit her, she would scream her head off. That's what I meant by "bucking the tiger".

Thanks for all the questions!

[MorbidMolly]

"This is one night you won't turn me out, Scarlette." cut to the next day..."...and she trembled with fright at his frown."

Sounds hot to me....

[leevancleef]

As MorbidMolly said she was indeed bi polar and a very depressive person.
ive always felt bad for her, but i cannot blame Olivier for leaving her after all that he went through.. i cant believe that he married Joan Plowright after divorcing Viv, though

[cherryghost]

I have always adored viviene leigh, complicated and intelligent, one of the most beautiful actresses on screen ever! I believe she showed signs of manic depression early on and by the time she was making GWTW she was getting slowly more fragile! Waterloo Bridge is my fav Film of hers!

[Bidmor]

Beautiful woman and great flick.....Clark must've not been all that small or he wouldn't have had all these torrid affairs....Someone's bullshit'n...

I'd lay money the bullshitter was Carole, trying to discourage as many other women as possible.

As far as the film goes, if anyone stole scenes in GWTW it was Hattie McDaniel.

[Katie]

I'd lay money the bullshitter was Carole, trying to discourage as many other women as possible.

As far as the film goes, if anyone stole scenes in GWTW it was Hattie McDaniel.

I agree with you in both cases. It really doesn't matter what the size is, it's what you can do with it, right?

[sassie]

Also, I could have sworn she played a prostitute in one of her films, but when I went to look on imdb.com I couldn't find it. Maybe it was her roommate in the film that was the prostitute. Has anyone seen this movie, and know the title?

Leigh played a prostitute in "Sidewalks of London" ("St. Martin's Lane" in the UK), with Charles Laughton. Her profession was merely hinted at in the film, however.

She was indeed bipolar, and first exhibited symptoms of the condition shortly after her marriage to Olivier in 1940. Over the years, she underwent constant treatment for the condition, including electroshock therapy-which was the accepted treatment back then-many, many times. She first battled tuberculosis successfully in the 1940's, and died from a reoccurence in 1967.

"Streetcar", "The Skin Of Our Teeth" (theatrical play) and "Elephant Walk" (a role she lost to Elizabeth Taylor after she had a breakdown on location) were all roles that seemed to contribute to her manic depression. Olivier was of the opinion that certain roles sparked the manic phase of the disorder, and there is some evidence that he was right.

She was, above all, a gutsy lady. She knew what was wrong with her, and she did all she could to treat the disorder with the medical science available at the time. But, it was never easy, and it cost her a great deal, in her personal and professional lives.

Nobody else will ever play Scarlett as well as Leigh did.

[thescreensiren]

She is probably my most favorite "old Hollywood" actress. Period. Devastatingly beautiful, gutsy, superbly talented, the works.

Anyone know how she was in real life?? I'd love to get my hands on some good bios about her. I do recall reading in that Lena Pepitone book about Marilyn Monroe that both Olivier and Leigh were pretty snotty to Marilyn. (On the other hand, that book is supposed to be a load of garbage, anyway).

[thescreensiren]

Also...

I was in "A Streetcar Named Desire" onstage a few years back, and really read up on the history of making the film. It's very interesting to read about what went on with Leigh and Brando during filming.


Leigh and her daughter, Suzanne

[FloridaDeathHag]

Also...

I was in "A Streetcar Named Desire" onstage a few years back, and really read up on the history of making the film. It's very interesting to read about what went on with Leigh and Brando during filming.


Leigh and her daughter, Suzanne

What kind of stuff went on? Hanky-panky or feud?

[Bidmor]

It really doesn't matter what the size is, it's what you can do with it, right?

I've heard that before...not addressed to me specifically though.

[Katie]

I've heard that before...not addressed to me specifically though.

That's funny. No I did not mean you!!

[cherryghost]

In Waterloo Bridge she was a Ballerina who turned to prositution to survive in London during the blitz. The film has a strong fateful theme! I wont give a synopsis but do see it!

[cherryghost]

She is probably my most favorite "old Hollywood" actress. Period. Devastatingly beautiful, gutsy, superbly talented, the works.

Anyone know how she was in real life?? I'd love to get my hands on some good bios about her. I do recall reading in that Lena Pepitone book about Marilyn Monroe that both Olivier and Leigh were pretty snotty to Marilyn. (On the other hand, that book is supposed to be a load of garbage, anyway).

Viviene leigh by Anne Edwards is probably my favorite bio of Viviene Leigh

[RNovarro]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivien_Leigh

Lauded for her beauty, Leigh felt that it sometimes prevented her from being taken seriously as an actress, but ill health proved to be her greatest obstacle. Affected by bipolar disorder for most of her adult life, she gained a reputation for being a difficult person to work with, and her career went through periods of decline. She was further weakened by recurrent bouts of tuberculosis, with which she was first diagnosed in the mid-1940s. She and Olivier divorced in 1960, and Leigh worked sporadically in film and theatre until her death from tuberculosis.

[hrhdiesel]

Vivien was also a manic depressive. The poor dear had alot of problems & wore poor larry out with her alnight parties. She could cope of little sleep & expected him to as well! He think he was great relieved when peter finch had an affair with her as he got the rest he needed.

That scene on the stairs was the "rape" scene. Rhett was pissed at being ignored by scarlette over Ashley...after drinking numerous amounts, he decided enough was enough & over powered her.
The next morning she was smiling...(remember the kiss in the parlour? she likes men to take control) - Rhett on the other hand was ashamed & decided to move with their toddler away.

Vivien was affected more by the scene in street car named desire as she had played that role numerous occasions on the stage. When she would have one of her break downs -- that was the role she would repeat in her normal life. Alot of people thought that was the role that finally broke her. I also dont think she got over the miscarrage she had while playing cleopatra in anthony & cleopatra.

[midnitelamp]

i have seen GWTW several times,including once in a theater,but have never read the book. for those who have,were there important characters,sub-plots,or anything else that got short shrift or left out of the movie entirely?

[Elizabeth]

i have seen GWTW several times,including once in a theater,but have never read the book. for those who have,were there important characters,sub-plots,or anything else that got short shrift or left out of the movie entirely?

The movie left out completely children Scarlett had with her first two husbands....in Mitchell's book she takes care to describe how neglectful Scarlett was of her son (Wade) and daughter (Ella) while she chases her own dream of being with Ashley.....there are some other little examples, but basically it is follows the book pretty well....

[midnitelamp]

thanks,elizabeth,i will eventually read it.

tcm will air Waterloo Bridge,this monday at 8p.m. est.

[Zombiegirl]

I don't know the dynamics associated with vocal coaches, but I do remember reading on more than one occasion that British and Southern accents are actually very interchangeable. I believe it had to do with rhythm/cadence and that it was fairly easy for a Brit to do a good Southern accent and vice versa.....go figure ????

This is very interesting to know.

[hrhdiesel]

The movie left out completely children Scarlett had with her first two husbands....in Mitchell's book she takes care to describe how neglectful Scarlett was of her son (Wade) and daughter (Ella) while she chases her own dream of being with Ashley.....there are some other little examples, but basically it is follows the book pretty well....

you beat me to it! I loved every minute of reading the book! The film does cover the book very well & you can imagine the actor/tress in their parts while reading it.

[Rebekah]

Vivien and Lee Marvin became good friends during filming of
Ship of Fools. One of his prized possessions was the boot
she hit him with in one of the scenes.

[leevancleef]

This is Suzanne , Vivien's daughter, on the day of her wedding

[Bashterd]

you beat me to it! I loved every minute of reading the book! The film does cover the book very well & you can imagine the actor/tress in their parts while reading it.

I had so much trouble getting into the book I think I only got through the first 50 pages. 4 pages describing the giant oaks at the end of the plantation got to be to much for me. Maybe I should try again and hang in there? Was it really that good??

However the bio of Vivien was great. So true about Larry and Viv's all night parties when she was in a manic state. Must have been very exhausting wow.

[Ruffian]

I had so much trouble getting into the book I think I only got through the first 50 pages. 4 pages describing the giant oaks at the end of the plantation got to be to much for me. Maybe I should try again and hang in there? Was it really that good??

However the bio of Vivien was great. So true about Larry and Viv's all night parties when she was in a manic state. Must have been very exhausting wow.

It took me awhile to get into the novel, but I was glad I stuck with it. (Once I got used to the style.) As I read it, I couldn't imagine anyone BUT Gable and Leigh playing those parts.