I think had one or both lived and gotten clean things would have been much different. Nancy may have wound up in and out of institutions and god only knows with sid. I think his sp days were over regardless
I think had one or both lived and gotten clean things would have been much different. Nancy may have wound up in and out of institutions and god only knows with sid. I think his sp days were over regardless
[quote=leeny994;433204]according to some genius 15 year old tourists (I am in NYC) I walked past yesterday--they were in complete Hot Topic head to toe---they saw the Pistols live the other night---apparently Sid was there too....
he performed and was 'the best they have ever seen him'
I wonder where this alleged "show" was and how one purchases tickets....
Wow how many drugs were they on. Pistols (minus Sid obviously lol) are touring again (England and Europe Mainly if my memory serves me right). Either they had no idea about Sids story (posser wanna be) or he was tripping on some great stash lol.
My guess is they were nowhere near a sp show and did no research before telling their tale. They probably thought since they purchased their punk fashions it made them all knowing lol
I don't know if anyone here gets the channel FUSE .. I get it on my satellite, but the movie "Sid and Nancy" is on now ..
I just watched a documentary on E yesterday about Celebrity murders..
Sid and Nancy were like #8... Strange what happened, usually heroin puts a person in a state of non-mobility, and stuns the nervous system to where usually people don't move. Usually people do not become manic and violently murder people while on heroin but...shit crazier things have happened.
There were a lot of people that hated Nancy and wanted her out of the picture because she f'ed up the band, but I'm not saying Sid wasn't capable of doing it. He probably did, I'm just saying that there is room for another explaination of what happened.
I.E. Sid passed out and someone comes in, struggles with Nancy and kills her, Sid wakes up and she's dead. It is possible but no one really knows.
No it is true! His mother gave him the drugs that finally killed him. She has admitted this. Of course she is dead now but just before she died she admitted it. I just watched the documentary about it yesterday.Originally Posted by GODDESS6
I believe that Sid did love Nancy , and it was definitely not returned in the same way on her part. I don't believe she was capable in any way shape or form of that kind of love with anyone or anything. FAR beyond the mental illness and the drug abuse, if you had ever had the misfortune of meeting her and having any dealings with her as I had in high school, you would KNOW beyond a doubt that she literally had no emotion, no soul. When she spoke to you (or I should say through you)and you looked at her, it was as if you were looking into the great black abyss. You know how they say the eyes are the window to the soul ??? I'm telling you....she had NONE. I shuddered the few times I had brief run ins with her - and her poor family - what hell they went through.
roflmfao:d
So you are saying that you knew her and went to grade school with her?????
Really? Because I just watched a documentary on them and it was stated/shown that Sid went to jail after Nancy was found dead, this forced him to go cold turkey while in jail. When he got out, not too long later he was given heroin by his mother and died lying in bed.
When the hell did he have time to get another girlfriend? He was SO depressed by Nancy's death too. So... not sure if you are correct.
Sid did have another girlfriend almost immediately after Nancy---i would not say girlfriend as much as I would say f-friend or drug buddy who happened to be a female and happened to share his bed. But he and everyone else referred to her as his girlfriend.
now remember in the middle of all of the sid and nancy murder stuff he was released on bail and then assaulted Patti Smiths brother at the Mudd Club and was arrested for that--, serving fifty some odd days released, spent some more time at Bellevue somewhere in the middle of this (but i think the bellevue time was as an inmate so it is within the 55 days--all still waiting for trial on nancy's murder--released and then died .
here is a tid bit of info:
Forensic experts subsequently found the heroin was 80 percent pure, as opposed to the 5 percent that was normal for the time and in that area, and because he had not been using since October his tolerance was greatly lowered. On HBO's Autopsy: Post Mortem, Dr. Baden claims Vicious' lungs were filled with fluid and water, which is common for someone who has overdosed on heroin. Ultimately, Vicious drowned in his own fluids.
i have heard the rumor that sid's mom and some friends scaled the grave yard walls and scattered Sid's ashes on Nancy's grave---against the wishes of the Spungeons. But who knows what was true concerning that. Sid's mom was a drug addict and I am almost sure not completely familiar with the truth.
but somehow--someway sid found himself a lady to latch onto.
Renowned Death Hag
I saw an interview with Sid on Michael Badden's, "Autopsy". He was seeing a girl named Michelle when he died. He loved his Nancy, this Michelle chick was just a warm body, if you will.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]peek-a-boo!!
Nancy totally looks like Courtney Love, or vice versa... especially before Courtney had all the crazy plastic surgery done to her face. They look very similar.
Courtney:
Nancy:
See what I mean?
Michelle--- i can't remember her last name though. but yes that was/is her first name
We went to different private schools in the Philadelphia area. I did not know her well, but had a couple run ins with her. The school that she went to (The Devereaux School) was for very troubled adolescents......not a savory bunch. I will try to locate the old thread wher I talked about the couple of incidents that I had with her. Now here is a strange little Death Hag tidbit.......Grace Kelly was an alumna of my school.....so I guess in some kinda bizarre way that puts a couple of degrees of seperation between me, Grace and Nancy !!!!! ROFLMAO !!!!!! (Only from the perspective of a true Death Hag !!!)
Last edited by Jazbabee; 09-21-2008 at 08:52 PM.
Here is a copy and paste from earlier in the thread. Endsleigh had cited it from another thread that I spoke about Nancy on. This stuff with Nancy wasn't in grade school.....I was in 10th grade, and I believe she was probably a Senior. She was one of the most maladjusted, nastiest people I have EVER encountered, and we all tried to stay the hell away from her.....even her own fellow students seemed intimidated, except for maybe the few druggies/flunkies in her circle.....makes me cringe to even think about it to this day......I have never met anyone like her, and hope I never do again !!!!
I always wondered why Debbie Spungeon referred to it as Darlington. Was it legal reasons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by endsleigh03
11-04-2007, 01:28 PM
Jazbabee
Death Hag
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 65
The credit for this goes to Jazbabee! Thank you!
I do have on personal experience with her that really stands out. I went to a private prep school. Nancy attended The Devereaux School, which was a private boarding school for emotionally disturbed adolescents. Most of the area prep schools reluctantly played Dvereaux in sports, because there tended to be a high rate of incidents with their students (antisocial, quick to fight, drug using - they were truly scary) So I knew her from seeing her around. She was on the softball team, or hung with them at one point. She focused in on a member of our team, ended up fighting with her during all of our games. During one game, she walked up to the member of our team and punched her squarely in the face, breaking our team members nose. In retaliation, our team member, ran and got an aluminum baseball bat, ran up behind Nancy, tapped her on the shoulder and cracked her over the head with the bat - Nancy immediately wennt down, everyone was pulled apart and taken for medical help. I know that Nancy was not expelled for the incident, because she went on to graduate from that school. Our team member however, was expelled, that type of behavior was totally unacceptable (and we were all in shock when it happened), and not tolerated under ANY circumstance. I had a couple other incidents/run ins with Nancy, but that was the one that stands out in my mind the most. Whenever I saw her anywhere, I tried my best to steer clear - she was TROUBLE of the worst kind, very disturbed individual.
__________________
[SIZE=4]The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its' limits......[/SIZE]
Nancy was just a nasty piece of work.
Sid deserved better than her imo.
I dealt with deveraux a few years ago. In my social work days. To give an example of the pop they dealt with my client was encopretic and possible schizophrenia. I was pleased with their program. It was the campus nancy attended I believe
I finally got around to reading "And I Don't Want to Live this Life" this weekend. I inadvertently found it at the library, and had no idea it was the anniversary of her death Sunday. I found myself reading and coming across the date in the book and realizing it WAS the date of her death and had one of those heebie jeebie moments.
Mucho heebie jeebies. But I agree...holy shit, she was something else. Her family put up with a LOT.
I just ordered it from abebooks--i really have put off reading this but i do want to...
It is a good read...just a very, very sad story. There's no way I would have put up with the crap her parents put up with out of her. She was pure hell on wheels from the get-go.
Just reading the posts on this, and I noticed the Bi-Polar issue came up regarding Nancy. I have been Bi-Polar all my life, and only sought treatment for it about 2 years ago. Why? I guess I didn't want to be labeled with a "mental illness." I knew something wasn't right, and just thought that's the way I am. Now, to actually having diagnosed, I understand my actions better. Nancy definately could have been Bi-Polar, however I'm leaning towards something in the ego being her problem. Bi-Polar doesn't make you self destructive, as far as I know, and it never made me violent. It affected my thought process. I started down the path of being a junkie, and still have issues with oxycodone, but for the most part I cleaned up and got a degree in nursing. What I'm trying to get across is, I know everyone is different and an illness can affect people differently, but IMO Nancy did a lot of things because she wanted to, not because she was sick. It's obvious she was, but I also think as much was done for her as possible by her family, she made the choice to turn out the way she did. I know it sounds fishy I went into nursing, but I didn't have an addiction then. I don't anymore, but an addiction is never cured, you just learn to control it instead of it controlling you. I never got any pills from my job, but a family member who is still willing to share, that's why I refer to it as a problem in the present tense, not past.
Last edited by Pamebabby; 10-15-2008 at 09:19 AM. Reason: forgot something
Everyone tried to help Nancy but she didnt want to listen.
She was quite happy being who she was. Sometimes you just gotta think well she made bed and now she has to lie in it.
It was just such a shame she took Sid down with her.
RIP Sid
I agree that at some point nancy made a decision to continue the behaviors rather than accept the help that was provided for her. I have not read her mom's book yet but I am curious if she was sexually abused at some point. Or some other traumatic experience even her family was not aware of.
This is just my opinion, so please don't bash me for it, but I had a hard time with parts of her mother's explanations as to why they couldn't control her. She got away with a lot, an awful lot, without consequences. Especially as a young teen. What 14 year old gets away with that kind of stuff? Parts of the book made me think she was sent away because they didn't WANT to deal with her, not because they couldn't. For the first half of the book I was really tired of hearing her mother whine about having a screaming child and she couldn't handle it. But the second half was genuinely focused on her rebellion. What I didn't understand however was how as a minor she could live alone, move through school that quickly and get into college, etc. if she was impaired. And her mother's repeated concerns that her behavior was affecting her siblings- well, I think if I was that worried, I wouldn't have allowed her and her shacking-up sessions with boyfriends to happen right under my other kid's noses.
I got the impression that Nancy behaved that way oftentimes because she could.
Last edited by tngirl1967; 10-17-2008 at 08:33 PM.
that is true. my book has not arrived yet so i have not read it lol
i think it is hard---it was a different time so--much of the help and knowledge was not readily available....
i see what you are saying... maybe mom should have pushed for more help.....
she was at Devereaux and I know they are a good place... i mentioned them in another post on this thread...it is so hard to say.... that is why i go back to my theory of a missing link----maybe there was some trauma we do not know about...
It bothered me that Sid, during a visit she documents in the book, seemed like a genuinely good kid--addict maybe, effed up in the head yes, but a well-behaved respectful guy while he was in their house. Shame, what a shame, she took him down with her. The book really is a great read. Let me know what you think about it!!!!!
TNgirl, I adore you right about now. I said as much way back in this thread and was jumped a bit for it.
Glad someone else thinks that theory has some merit.
I have wondered about that alot.
Sorry, I didn't see where anyone else had expressed the opinion, and I'm sorry you took flack for your opinion--I think we are all entitled! That's what makes this place fun is getting other people's takes on things, or at least I like it. It makes me think another way, go hmmmmm.......
I just thought it rather funny they certainly put restrictions on their other two children--and they had consequences if they did wrong--while Nancy didn't get anything but their hands thrown in the air and exasperation. Reading the book I could almost see them turning their heads the other way and sighing. My mother would have killed me before she let me act like that! It just seemed she had no limits set. JMO.
This was the post.
I think they had one uncontrollable kid on their hands (unlike the other two siblings) and didn't know what to do with her. I know she was mentally ill, but I agree the Mom does an awful lot of whining in the book. Some of the things that are written in the book seem awfully self serving. Almost like she was determined to get it out that none of it could possibly have been ANY of her/their fault.
Nancy was really smart, I think, and learned to run them very early. Then went out in the world and kept trying it. Aggressive that one.
What caught my attention was the chapter where her mom starts talking about how Nancy liked the "acid rock"--at ten. WTF?? Naming your cat Aquarius at age six or seven because they let her watch "Hair" repeatedly because it occupied her? Then they wonder why she got into drugs! I just revisited that chapter in the book (I'm turning it back in to the library tomorrow) to recheck myself and make sure I didn't read it wrong. I could be--and probably am wrong, but it sure sounded like they threw money at a problem that a good smack on the butt might have solved. Protesting on the lawn at age ten because she purchased Saran wrap! Gimme a break! Their asses would have been back in the house!
Where is Supernanny when you need her?
i doubt that. sid would have been in protective custody. one cell all alone 23 hour lock down.
I love the story about Sid and the Pistols when they visited Texas and were eating at a diner. A bunch of rednecks started harassing them about "not being tough" and Sid slit open his hand and let the blood drip onto his scrambled eggs. In the rednecks' horror, he then ATE THE EGGS!
plus he also spent a lot of time in the infirmary and was detoxing so I highly doubt that anything like rape happened to Sid at Rikers.
http://nymag.com/arts/popmusic/features/51394/
i just read this... interesting
Good article and a bit of a different angle.
Thanks for the link Lenny.
Its nice to know that there are alot of people out there still who think Sid was innocent.
Has there ever been a poll on FAD on this? It would be interesting to see what all us death hags think.
Legs mcneill is very blunt and truthful. I see his side. I see what he is getting at. And yes I could see nancy screaming at sid to stab her. He was that much under her. 'Spell'
Senior Death Hag
After reading this particular article, all the parallels between Nancy and Courtney Love just seem even stronger to me--bright, perceptive (Courtney can be incredibly sharp and insightful--I remember some of her rantings back in the '90s on the evils of the music business, and seeing so many people basically restating the same thing less than 10 years later-- being an outcast among outcasts, gaining a lot of their identity through the men they sleep with, foolishly self-destructive....the parallels just go on & on.
Didn't know about the blood transfusion theory re: Nancy, but Courtney definitely had a troubled childhood--rumor has it that her dad dosed her with LSD as a baby/toddler, for starters. She claimed at one point that her conception was the result of what amounted to a date rape, and that her mother never wanted her to begin with; what makes me think there might be some truth to that was an article--again, from the early '90s--that described her mother's home/office--I'm not sure which--as being filled with photos of all her children and stepchildren except for Courtney. Also, even if your kid is being kind of bratty, what kind of mother--and a psychologist at that--would, on hearing that her 12-year-old daughter had been busted for shoplifting at Woolworth's, basically tell the cops to go ahead and throw her in juvie? Like that's gonna make her any better when she comes out? *sheesh!* Courtney's certainly no angel, and God knows she's stirred plenty of crap up in her time, but if she really was dosed up w/hardcore psychoactive drugs without having the mental & emotional resources to cope with it, and/or raised by a cold, resentful mother to boot, it sure as hell wouldn't have done her psyche any good over the years. All things considered, it's damn near a miracle that Courtney's still alive, and an even bigger one that Frances Bean seems to be a pretty good kid with her head screwed on straight--as much of a mess as Courtney can be, I do believe she loves her daughter very much, and Frances knows that she's loved...it doesn't make all the difference, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt.
(FWIW, I met Courtney a few times during the early '90s, and while she could definitely be abrasive, she was always very sweet to me, with a very dry sense of humor to boot. And, as I've said before, I honestly don't think she had Kurt killed--I don't doubt their marriage was troubled, and there are certainly questions about some of what went on around the time of his death, although my suspicion is that his dealer or some other junkie was the one to steal & use his bank card; God knows junkies have no sense of honor and wouldn't hesitate to rob a corpse if they needed a fix--her grief seemed very genuine to me, and I do think she loved him as much as she's capable of loving anyone. She's a decent actress, but she's not THAT good to be able to fake that degree of grief...)
I think the whole sid and nancy thing could go round and round forever.... i think what has made them so fascinating is the little hint of doubt--that maybe, just maybe sid did not do it.. that nancy herself did it---that someone else may have---just that little hint of "maybe......"
I think the Sid and Nancy thing could be put together and resolved if was desirable and the right people came out and were honest! Somehow I dont think it was advantagious to put the record straight!
Myth and ledgend now rule! The facts are out there!
Senior Death Hag
I saw on the latest Autopsy special a call-in show where the caller got on Nancy, basically calling her stupid, and she replied that her IQ was *high, I forgot the number*, and that she graduated high school at 15 (for the caller's fucking information). Any truth at all to this, does anyone know?
Yup. The nypd has a cold case unit that has done some real great work. This does not seem to be on the agenda. The spungeons are not pushing either. They could.
This is one of the great music mysteries, which in a way has kept Punk alive through the decades. This story has turned many young fans onto Punk music / lifestyle who were not around when this took place (myself included).
Nancy finally got what she wanted, "To be Famous and Remembered". As I have said earlier it was just a shame she took Sid down with her.
I think Sid is innocent only in the sense that Nancy manipulated him to do what he did. I do not think he just stabbed her for the hell of it, I think she used him as her tool for suicide. There's not much evidence to the contrary, and even Sid wrote a letter saying he didn't keep his part of the bargain, which is very much in line of a mutual suicide pact.
You can almot here her willing him to stab her.
As much as I dont like Nancy it would have been a horrible way to go. Painful and lonely.
I wonder if she ever found peace in the end?
how sad. they were toxic for each other but toxic to be apart.
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