paul and glenn could both perform well.
Paul's a good drummer, and didn't Glenn write/co-wrote most of the songs?
i think glenn played on most of the songs too. i have heard Malcom McClarron was very, well lets just say more of an opportunist and very money greedy more than someone who is in it for the music and the art of it all...
Cherry.....I agree that the thinking with that is twisted. If you go back thru the thread you will see wher I describe some personal run ins with Nancy while in high school in Philadelphia.
Nancy was in a school for emotionally disturbed adolescents. Although I did not know her parents, I had heard that they did care about her, and tried to get her help in every way possible. Her troubles were just so very deep (from birth), and she was living in a time when many of her issues had not yet been recognized.
I can tell you from the run ins I had with her, she was a nasty, vindictive, mean spirited psychotic individual, that was EXTREMELY unpleasant to be around. Whenever my school played theirs in sports, I tried to avoid her at ALL costs, because she would start SERIOUS shit with anybody and everybody, and was extremely violent. So ultimately, and unfortunately it was not a shock to those of us that knew her to have such a sad life, and tragic ending.
Jaz, thank you for bumping this info.
When you first posted this many weeks ago, I was inspired to buy the book And I Don't Want To Live This Life, again. It had been years since I last read it, and it's interesting how my mind changes as I've had children of my own in the meantime. I'll admit, I was very young the first time I read it, and as often happens, I was defensive of Nancy and the whole punk movement. One of those "Parents just don't understand" sorta things.
But now that I've grown older and had children of my own, I have a lot of sympathy for what Nancy's parents went through, with what little resources they had to work with. I might catch some flack for saying that, but oh well . Her parents were not perfect by any means, and certainly had their share of marital problems they have admitted to. Also, Nancy was on a variety of prescription medications that her parents would take her on and off of, literally overnight. This is NOT good with such powerful medications.
I agree with you, Nancy's problems which had been present since birth, could have easily been maintained in today's modern medicine, diagnosis and all. But back then, the best they could offer was a schizophrenia diagnosis, and high doses of lithium as a treatment. Sounds like the dark ages, doesn't it? And yet it was just a few decades ago this all occured in Nancy's life.
Being wiser now than what I was in the 80's, it's painfully obvious that Nancy looked to drugs to numb her pain. In doing so, she found herself hooked on heroin, which is the devil himself in a compact syringe so to speak. If Nancy had lived, I would imagine her diagnosis would have been possibly bi-polar, with more research being done on her brain when deprived of oxtgen at birth. JMO.
Another interesting observation that was made in the Dr. Baden documentary, is that Nancy was probably Sid's "first". Meaning girlfriend, long term relationship. I mean, they were babies when they met, 19 I think. I would imagine Sid being so young, suddenly an international star, and his background being raised by a heroin addicted mother, Nancy was probably the first long term, steady relationship of any type, which would help explain to fans what Sid actally "saw" in her. I've heard that question often
But anyway, just random observations as usual .
Jazbabee, Not sure I know what your saying here, I was just responding to the poor Teena quote! It may have been out of context! I was distracted by the quote and commenting on Teena not Nancy there.
Everything your telling us about Nancy must have been horrible to experience firsthand. I read your post the first time. Any film interviews or footage I saw of her fit you discription perfectly.
Did you think I was defending Nancy? I wasnt a fan so it never occurred to me to do so! She was such a heavy mess I found it hard to empathise with her! I recall it was a shock but no suprise when it all happened!
I was crazy about the Pistols and Nancy not so crazy about
Last edited by cherryghost; 01-20-2008 at 08:55 PM.
Sorry about the confusion here Cherry. I was agreeing that the way someone dresses doesn't mean they were asking for it.
I don't believe that Nancy was necessarily asking for it either - it was more a function of her mental state/condition, and lack of an effective treatment at the time. ( And conversely, at the same time, she DID come off like she was asking for it, and was in many physical altercations due to her mouth, demeanor and nasty disposition) I hope I am making a bit more sense here - it is kind of difficult to describe unless you have seen someone act like this firsthand. Sorry if I confused you
Yes Jazabee,
its hard to express in context, but yeah I think woman like Nancy and others are provacative, they do go for it and press all the buttons, Nancy was out there and very much asking for it, in a deifant act! She seemed to do it publicly tho where cameras were etc, So she didnt get hurt, yes I think she was doing it for a reason and she was very damaged.I didnt think at the time she came off 'like she was asking for it'
As a feminist at the time I felt she was very much 'asking for it' because she could and she just did. I didnt like because of it but I accepted that there were woman like that out there, and these days OMG so many woman get away with it and so much more.Its very much about the time jazabee as I write this I think time has changed so much since since nancy!
On Doctor Badens show tonight he said that there was a sucide note left from sid. He said that he and Nancy had a suicide pact and he had to honor it and at the end it said the his mother admitted to buying and delivering those packets of H to him. She committed suiced in 2004.
I watched as they showed where he died there were 8 packs of smack on the table (DR BAden) After the drug tests came back it showed that the H he used was 80 percent usually it is five percent. The 80 percent is what killed him and in that DR B's show there was NO mention of his mother administering the H to him.
I find all this not being able to help her and being refused help by the shrinks had to swallow. MY last husbands first wife was diagnosed with Skitz in 1968. She was 25. Institutionalized and given meds when that didn't work they did that horrible shock treatments. BUT between that and her meds it helped her. If she skipped the meds she went off the deep end with paranoia. But she is 63 working and living well on her own. So something does not sound right with their version of not being able to get her help and them with holding records from them about what was wrong with her.
~2/2/1979~
~Today is the anniversary of Sid's death ~
~Rest In Peace, Sid ~
In honor of Sid's d-day, here's an interesting article about meeting him & the band by Roger Ebert: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...OPLE/362363802
Last edited by Warmed Over; 02-02-2008 at 01:43 PM.
RIP Sid
almost 30 years have passed, doesn't seem like it~
RIP sidney~
The whole situation of Sid and his addiction and death are very tragic, considering he was practically a baby. I think Nancy's influence had ALOT to do with him getting on heroin.
Id say the fact that his mother was a junkie had a lot more to do with him getting on heroin.The whole situation of Sid and his addiction and death are very tragic, considering he was practically a baby. I think Nancy's influence had ALOT to do with him getting on heroin.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
supposidely he did not use Heroin until he and Nancy got together...
I'm wondering whether I can get any of those crime scene pics from the Autopsy show off my TV now that we have an LCD... Hmm....
but let me rephrase what i said earlier--supposidely he did not use H till he and Nancy got together BUT it still probably has much to do with his mom's problem with H or drugs in general... maybe it was a 2 fold issue/problem
Gotta look back at the fact he left a suicide note, I didnt know that! His mother was not a great influence or role model, but Nancy was his love and he was easily lead at such a young age still,Was there really a suicide note? I think he said he had wanted to die after Nancy's death but was that his despair over her death. Oh its so long ago and these were very young souls fucking with mortality and not realising that life is not a dress rehearsal!
Looked on the web and can't find copy, for anyone who hasnt seen this, here it is. This was in his passport at his Moms house, which is when the author of book first saw it. Make of it what you will. (Sid was fashion aware, even in this note, )
~~ We had a death pact
I have to keep my half of the bargain.
Please bury me next to my baby.
Bury me in my leather jacket, jeans and motorcycle boots
Goodbye ~~
OK, so I was able to get some pics off of the "Autopsy: Post Mortem" show that profiled Sid & Nancy.
I have the knife in the hallway, Nancy - from the video that the police shot - her slumped on the floor and closer shots, Sid's injection site and the stuff that was on his nightstand.
I also got some good Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman shots...
Yes please post!
Unfortunately Sid's suicide note was not found until after he'd been cremated -- it was clear he chose to be buried, not burned.
Many question Sid's mother's honesty, and her story about sneaking into Nancy's cemetary to pour Sid's ashes onto her grave. For example, she tells of having to scale a fence to do so, but researchers found that the cemetary *never* had such a fence as she described.
IMHO, the fact that the heroin that Sid took was so much purer than street fare, gives more credulity to the opinion that Rockets Redglare did indeed seek to kill Sid before Sid could mention the possiblity that RR was also among the suspects who may have killed Nancy -- a likely possibility as Nancy made fast enemies, and there was evidence that they were pretty far in debt to RR. It's not unusual for a terribly upset person to admit to a crime they didn't do -- ask any detective.
Finally, Nancy had completed rehab and had been clean for a few months before she got together with Sid. Who turned who on is merely speculation.
I wouldn't trust that movie "Sid and Nancy" as a source though. Witnesses say virtually none of it is true, nor did Cox (the filmmaker) bother to interview ANY of the people close to them -- he relied on hearsay and third-party "reports." Many have come forward to say that movie was pure BS. Shame though, as Gary Oldman and Chloe Webb gave strong performances. People close to them said that one of the few things Alex Cox "got right" was how irritating Nancy could be ...
this is what i believe---or i am inclined to believe:
and what we know
-sid and nancy were in debt to RR
-He was in the hotel the night Nancy died and seen wandering around
BUT i think at the same time sid and nancy had their own 'suicide pact'
and maybe rockets was aware of this and used it to his advantage this possibly killing nancy
the night sid died i believe he did wish to commit suicide whether it be that night or at another time
Sid's mom ordered the heroin, rockets got wind of it and made sure his was 80% pure as opposed to the regular 5%--his own insurance plan so to speak--basically also not knowing of sid's wish to commit suicide.
but we will REALLY never know huh?
Dr. Michael Baden has a cable television show called "Autopsy." He did a "special" regarding the famous cases that he's investigated, including the Sid & Nancy cases. On this television show, they showed Sid's body on the bed. I'm not sure if the DVD is available, or if it will be shown again on HBO, but you could check it out!
It's that the picture with him eating the hot dog with mustard all over his face?
I know which one you are talking about. I have it too. I have these photo books of the famous some of them naked. I can't remember the name of it. Sorry, all my shit is in storage right now!
There's another with him naked? Give my Granny away to see that lol.
In this one he's just dropped trou for some reason and someone is laughing in the background. No mustard and barely any hot dog to be seen.... (I am being mean, I'll stop. I know it's all in the eye of the beholder)
Nancy , aged 12
Did anyone see the Simpons Epi this weekend making fun of SID & Nancy ! it was too funny !!!!
Yeah my kid asked me why they were cooking chocolate in a spoon. Not cool.
Nancy was really a very pretty girl. Funny, how you don't get that under all the makeup and drugs...
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39
Nancy was cute with her dark hair! I LOVED the Simpsons episode with the Sid and Nancy spoof, I was laughing so hard, it was genius
I just finished re-reading "And I don't want to live this life" by Nancy's mom. I read it the first time as soon as the book came out years ago.
I found when I read it this time, as an adult and a parent myself, that............. an AWFUL lot in that book gets blamed on Nancy. About halfway thru the book, I was getting annoyed with it. The blame, I mean.
After a while it seemed like it was "Oh, the sun came up and it was Nancy's fault, thats why our lives are ruined" "Oh, the yard service people were late, it's Nancy's fault, our lives are ruined" "The new toaster burned the toast, it's Nancy's fault, she's whats ruining our lives"
I am being silly of course, thats not exactly what was written, but still....
There were an awful lot of instances where they just let her have her way to keep her quiet, and when they did that, they broke a serious rule of parenting. And the more they did it, the more she learned to get crazier every time to get her way. Kids are a quick study.
Before anyone jumps my azz here, believe me when I say I know the crazy shite the girl did, alot of it was deathly serious, and I also do know that her family lived thru hell. I am not putting down what happened to them in any way. She did seem to be mentally ill.
I think what I am trying to say here, is that I read this book with a new perspective about her early years......
The Sex Pistols were an awesome band. And Sid trully was the apitame of punk IMO.
What happened to him was so sad. I have never had any doubt in my mind just how deeply in love he was with Nancy, but I think it was more about image than love for her. Again IMO.
This really is one story that turned into urban legend after urban legend and because of that Sid will always be remembered for his death more than his life.
I've read the book at least twice. And I think they knew they were impowering Nancy by letting her have her way, but what else could they do to keep the piece. I mean this kid was a monster--sorry, but that's the truth--and they were scared to death of her, of what she might do if she didn't get her way, and who knows what she might have done had they fought her tooth and nail. She needed treatment when there really was no adequat treatment at the time. She should have been institutionalized, and finally was sent to that home. She did not deserve to die like that, and I am not convinced Sid did it.