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Thread: Abraham Lincoln

  1. #1
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    Abraham Lincoln

    This is for Scott or anyone who grew up in Michigan...probably the favorite spot to take schoolage kids for fieldtrips is Greenfield Village...located in Dearborn, a suburb of Detroit, and formerly part of the Henry Ford estate...it is a museum located in numerous buildings, and the reason I bring it up is they have the chair Abraham Lincoln was shot in...I think I was in sixth grade the first time I saw it, and it scared me to death...for some reason.

    It has what looks like blood on it...and for a kid...is a real eye opener...

    Any other Michigan kids have a similar experience...many of my friends still talk about the eerie feeling we got from that chair...

    They also have the Kennedy car but it is cleaned up and retrofitted...

  2. #2
    firegilnotguns Guest
    Man, wish they'd kept that chair in Ford's Theatre or in the Smithsonian or something (I'm from the DC metro area and would have liked to have seen it!

  3. #3
    candleinthewind Guest
    I watched a show on about Lincoln's assassination.I think it was History's Lost and Found on the History channel. He died in the bed of a young soldier who continued to sleep on the bloody sheets and pillow. He thought it was an honor. I think some historical society still has the bed.

  4. #4
    Bake Guest
    Oh yea, I remember when I first saw that chair, sitting in his courthouse!! They now have it sealed in a glass case in the Museum. What about Edison's last breathe? I think Scott has a pic of it on FAD somewhere!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bake View Post
    Oh yea, I remember when I first saw that chair, sitting in his courthouse!! They now have it sealed in a glass case in the Museum. What about Edison's last breathe? I think Scott has a pic of it on FAD somewhere!!
    That's right!...Scott did the Christmas thing there last year or the year before...forgot about that...

  6. #6
    Bake Guest

    Lincoln Chair

    I remember when I first saw it and even to this day when I see it, I feel something eerie about it.
    How about Edison's last breathe? They have that there as well!! Def worth a visit if anyone is the Detroit Area!!

  7. #7
    HippieMama Guest
    Check out Springfield, Illinois if you're a Lincoln fan . . . his home, law offices, tons of stuff . . . and TOTALLY haunted, everywhere you go you can feel it, up to and including his outhouse
    I was always fascinated with the story about his poor wife . . .

  8. #8
    firegilnotguns Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by HippieMama View Post
    I was always fascinated with the story about his poor wife . . .
    I had a history professor who said if we ever wanted a really fascinating read, to pick up a bio of Mary Todd Lincoln...

  9. #9
    Suebabe Guest
    I think the bed is at the Chicago Historical Society or still at the Boardinghouse in which he died -- across from Ford's Theatre.

  10. #10
    firegilnotguns Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Suebabe View Post
    I think the bed is at the Chicago Historical Society or still at the Boardinghouse in which he died -- across from Ford's Theatre.
    I just checked and found this:
    "Deathbed Moves to Chicago

    The Petersen House, which is a popular tourist site in Washington, has been restored to its 1865 appearance, but does not contain the original Lincoln deathbed. When William and Anna Petersen died in 1871, their furniture was sold at auction. William H. Boyd purchased some of the furnishings, paying $80 for the deathbed. His son inherited these items and sold them to Charles F. Gunther, a wealthy Chicago candy manufacturer and collector. After Gunther died in 1920, the Chicago Historical Society bought his extraordinary collection, which included the Lincoln deathbed and related furnishings."

  11. #11
    HippieMama Guest
    Did anyone know that Lincoln suffered from manic depression and even attempted to take his own life more than once in his life?
    Mary Todd wasn't quite right, but who would be? Children that died, a society that shunned her . . . she was wrongly institutionalized at the hands of her son after her husband's death where she remained, isolated, until her death. Before marrying Honest Abe, she was considered a great catch in society too.
    And to think, Jackie O was praised for redoing the White House while Mary was overly criticized for doing the same, 100 years earlier.

  12. #12
    jcheeka Guest
    I love the lincoln chair. When I take my daugters class on fields trips the kids always want to see lincolns chair. It is amazing what henry ford bought and put in a museum. They now have rosa parks bus. When they first got the bus they would tell you about how they found the bus and how they restored it. Now you listen to a recording of rosa parks talking about her experince which is amazing but I think they should also tell you how they found the bus

  13. #13
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    Have any of you read the book Possesed Possesions? It's chalk full of haunted objects. John Zaffis has an occult museum that you can see online. Creepy stuff..and I LOVE it!

  14. #14
    Mrs. Watson Guest
    Greenfield Village has some really freaky haunted stuff there. It's cool, but there is a definate vibe to some of it.

    They have a reception/banquet facility that I've attended some events at (very swanky, la di da puff puff) and it's urban legend that it's haunted. I never got that sort of vibe there, but that could have been the martinis, hiding it.

    Definately worth the trip.

  15. #15
    flyingj Guest

    Lincoln Chair Blood

    "It has what looks like blood on it...and for a kid...is a real eye opener"

    Actually the disgusting part is most of what people think is blood isn't-that's the pomade Lincoln wore in his hair, which I might add was very popular @ the time. That, & Washington's cot are far afield from the rest of the collection. the HF is simply the greatest auto museum in the world-bar none. If you're a gearhead, you must go...the Petersen's great, but that & every single one I've walked into Isn't The Henry Ford. Period. Henry Ford asked for Edison's last breath, & he was this close to getting Independence Hall from Philly when the citizens found out they freaked(he was gonna take it apart & re-assemble it in Dearborn like everything else) so he just built a replica if it for his museum. Back when Cadillac was starting up & Ford was a journeyman, his engine was supposed to power the Caddy-he figured he could get his own car company outta the bankers @ the last minute so he left LaSalle(the Caddy folks) high & dry

  16. #16
    Laurie Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by HippieMama View Post
    Did anyone know that Lincoln suffered from manic depression and even attempted to take his own life more than once in his life?
    Mary Todd wasn't quite right, but who would be? Children that died, a society that shunned her . . . she was wrongly institutionalized at the hands of her son after her husband's death where she remained, isolated, until her death. Before marrying Honest Abe, she was considered a great catch in society too.
    And to think, Jackie O was praised for redoing the White House while Mary was overly criticized for doing the same, 100 years earlier.
    With all due respect, Mary Todd Lincoln was a total headcase. That she was seriously addicted to shopping and spending money she didn't have was just the tip of the iceberg.

    Not even slightly comparable to Jackie O, IMHO.

  17. #17
    ST Moron Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingj View Post
    Ford asked for Edison's last breath
    As soon as I saw that, you know I had to look around to see what the hell you were talking about.

    I immediately had visions of ol' Henry hovering near Edison on his deathbed, anxiously awaiting the Big Kickoff as he stood by with an appropriate something-or-other to shove over Edison's mouth as soon as he could be sure that, yes, this breath was indeed his very last.

    As usual, though, the reality wasn't nearly as much fun as the image I had floating around in (what's left of) my mind.

    Apparently, Ford asked (browbeat?) one of Edison's kids to seal a test tube of air in the room in which Edison died shortly after his death. Which is almost (but not quite) the same thing.

    Presumably, if someone farted in the room (I understand your bowels do tend to relax after death) then those molecules are in that ol' testube as well.

    (I just thought I'd point that out.)

    Incidentally, I wanted to thank you for sharing the bit on Ford's chicanery:

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingj View Post
    Back when Cadillac was starting up & Ford was a journeyman, his engine was supposed to power the Caddy-he figured he could get his own car company outta the bankers @ the last minute so he left LaSalle(the Caddy folks) high & dry
    They do say that behind every great fortune lies a great crime, don't they?
    Last edited by ST Moron; 10-07-2007 at 02:34 AM. Reason: Parenthesis added

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimpuck19 View Post
    This is for Scott or anyone who grew up in Michigan...probably the favorite spot to take schoolage kids for fieldtrips is Greenfield Village...located in Dearborn, a suburb of Detroit, and formerly part of the Henry Ford estate...it is a museum located in numerous buildings, and the reason I bring it up is they have the chair Abraham Lincoln was shot in...I think I was in sixth grade the first time I saw it, and it scared me to death...for some reason.

    It has what looks like blood on it...and for a kid...is a real eye opener...

    Any other Michigan kids have a similar experience...many of my friends still talk about the eerie feeling we got from that chair...

    They also have the Kennedy car but it is cleaned up and retrofitted...
    I can understand Kennedy's limo, it was a Lincoln made by Ford Motor Company. But why would the chair that President Lincoln was sitting in when he was shot be in the Henry Ford Museum. Please don't tell me it is because his name was "Lincoln" and he was shot in "Fords" Theater. That would make me wonder about the sanity of the people who are in charge or our history and related items.
    Last edited by John Trim; 10-07-2007 at 06:04 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Many of the items in the collection at GF were privately held and purchased by HF...including the chair...

    Many of the items related to AL's asassination are scattered in various collections, as it was chaos after he was shot.

  20. #20
    Mrs. Watson Guest
    Henry Ford is a fascinating figure, in some ways a genius and in others a complete monster. There are several biographies available about him that I'm sure his descendents are none too pleased about. It seems like they just want to forget he liked hanging out with Nazis, stole ideas, browbeat his workers, the list goes on.

  21. #21
    MPetro108 Guest
    Absolutely fantastic posts! I knew none of this. Thanks!

  22. #22
    erin Guest
    Apiece of trivia: Marilyn Monroe idolized Abe Lincoln, and kept a picture of him in every place she lived. There are even pix of her carrying around a Lincoln biography. Sorry, had to share.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by johntrim040851 View Post
    But why would the chair that President Lincoln was sitting in when he was shot be in the Henry Ford Museum.
    Ford collected everything. He has the Wright Brothers bicycle shop, he has Daniel Webster's office, he has loads of buildings he purchased to create his Greenfield Village.

    He also has Rosa Park's bus, Lindbergh's trailer home, a sign from the very first McDonalds. Ford was an odd duck, but I love that museum.

  24. #24
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    I think it is one of the best museums I have ever been to...only because there are so many items that relate to modern culture and events...

    Definitely a must see for people in the Detroit area...I take my kids there ever few years...every time we go they start laughing and say "dad, is that the chair that kept you up at night when you were our age ?"

    "uh...yea..."

  25. #25
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    Fords collapsed on june 9 1893 the same day edwin booth was buried.they had been keeping files of some sort,and the weight was too much.seems like there were several fatalities.anyway,the chair would have been crushed if it had still been there.

  26. #26
    Bake Guest
    Incase anyone wants to look it over, here's the link to Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village:

    http://www.hfmgv.org/

  27. #27
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    one site says the chair was "restored". whats up with that? somewhat similar is the restoration of the strat jimi set on fire.

  28. #28
    Bake Guest
    I found a picture!! Here's a link:

    http://www.hfmgv.org/museum/wlja/lincolnchair.asp

  29. #29
    onehunglow Guest
    I'm sure the death bed as pee stains as well. Dead people release at the TOD and pee a last time. They aslo are full of acid and food. Farts, burps and even a poop is just a part of leaving. Like the dead say "piss on you!".

  30. #30
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    Every time I go to the HF museum, the Lincoln chair always has the biggest crowd around it. It was always the first place I go when I am there.
    The only thing that amazes me is all that farm equipment that HF collected....reminds of that scene in "Twister" when they are in that barn towards the end of the movie...except without the wind......

  31. #31
    Tugboat25 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by candleinthewind View Post
    I watched a show on about Lincoln's assassination.I think it was History's Lost and Found on the History channel. He died in the bed of a young soldier who continued to sleep on the bloody sheets and pillow. He thought it was an honor. I think some historical society still has the bed.
    That's strange, it was my understanding (from reading a number of books on the assassination) that after the President died, the bed sheets, blanket and pillows were actually unceremoniously thrown outside into the backyard. To this day, the originals have never been seen again.
    Last edited by Tugboat25; 10-13-2007 at 02:38 PM.

  32. #32
    Lobsters Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    With all due respect, Mary Todd Lincoln was a total headcase. That she was seriously addicted to shopping and spending money she didn't have was just the tip of the iceberg.

    Not even slightly comparable to Jackie O, IMHO.
    She was a total headcase even before she hooked up with Lincoln. I'm sure watching her kids die and her hubby get shot didn't help.

    and she was a total loon when Robert had her put in the institution

  33. #33
    SquirrelNutZipper Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingj View Post
    "It has what looks like blood on it...and for a kid...is a real eye opener"

    Actually the disgusting part is most of what people think is blood isn't-that's the pomade Lincoln wore in his hair, which I might add was very popular @ the time.

    I don't doubt what you're saying but after seeing the picture of the chair Lincoln's pomade must have been dripping down his back for it to be located on the chair where it is.

    Either that or he slumped down straight (which I doubt). My guess is that he slumped over.

    In all reality he probably was bored with the play, slumped down for a snooze and that's how the pomade got on the chair in that place.

    Glad I worked that one out!!

  34. #34
    Tugboat25 Guest
    The president was leaning forward in his chair looking down at the people seated below, when Wilkes Booth shot him.
    The last words Lincoln heard on earth were "You sockdologizing old mantrap!" (that's the real line from the play "Our American Cousin starring Laura Keane). BANG.
    Wilkes Booth purposely waited for that line (he knew the play, being an actor himself) because that's when a big laugh from the audience occurs and he wanted to try to hide the shot within the theatre laughter as best he could.
    Last edited by Tugboat25; 10-14-2007 at 10:09 PM.

  35. #35
    susalu Guest
    One of the best books about Lincoln that I have ever read was Gore Vidal's Lincoln. It's a fictionalized account of his time as president, but much of it is based in fact. VERY readable... It brings the history alive for me! Susan

  36. #36
    Helby Guest
    check this out. scroll down there is a picture shortly after lincolns death of the bed. I remember going through the house and they had a bed in there and a blood stained pillow with a glass case over it. this was 15 years ago or so


    http://members.aol.com/RVSNorton/Lincoln45.html
    Last edited by Helby; 10-22-2007 at 04:38 PM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helby View Post
    check this out. scroll down there is a picture shortly after lincolns death of the bed. I remember going through the house and they had a bed in there and a blood stained pillow with a glass case over it. this was 15 years ago or so


    http://members.aol.com/RVSNorton/Lincoln45.html
    Fascinating. I had forgotten Lincoln's bodyguard had gone for a drink.

  38. #38
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by HippieMama View Post
    Did anyone know that Lincoln suffered from manic depression and even attempted to take his own life more than once in his life?
    Mary Todd wasn't quite right, but who would be? Children that died, a society that shunned her . . . she was wrongly institutionalized at the hands of her son after her husband's death where she remained, isolated, until her death. Before marrying Honest Abe, she was considered a great catch in society too.
    And to think, Jackie O was praised for redoing the White House while Mary was overly criticized for doing the same, 100 years earlier.

    Mary died at her sisters house. SHe only spent 3 months locked up and she never forgave he ahole son.

  39. #39
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurie View Post
    With all due respect, Mary Todd Lincoln was a total headcase. That she was seriously addicted to shopping and spending money she didn't have was just the tip of the iceberg.

    Not even slightly comparable to Jackie O, IMHO.
    I think she suffered from depression. She hired people to let her try to talk to the son that had died. We all spen money we shouldn't and peoplke did yack about Jackie for trying to get new china and things for the white house and they did the same when Nancy tried to clean the dump up too.
    Like Jackie I think that you would never be the same if you sat next to your husband when somoene blew their brains out litterally. Jackie wanted out of the US because "they are killing Kennedys". Mary was fragile at least because of all but one of her kids dying. They went after Mary because she was from the south. Said she was a confederate spy and all kinds of shit. I guess maybe her spending was from all of the pressure.

  40. #40
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    **please refer to the thread 'john wilkes booth' that has been subsequently added to this forum.
    pull the string!

  41. #41
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    the president dreams of his own death

    Three days prior to his assassination, Abraham Lincoln related a dream he had to his wife and a few friends. According to Ward Hill Lamon, one of the friends who was present for the conversation, the president said:



    "About ten days ago, I retired very late. I had been up waiting for important dispatches from the front. I could not have been long in bed when I fell into a slumber, for I was weary. I soon began to dream. There seemed to be a death-like stillness about me. Then I heard subdued sobs, as if a number of people were weeping. I thought I left my bed and wandered downstairs. There the silence was broken by the same pitiful sobbing, but the mourners were invisible. I went from room to room; no living person was in sight, but the same mournful sounds of distress met me as I passed along. I saw light in all the rooms; every object was familiar to me; but where were all the people who were grieving as if their hearts would break? I was puzzled and alarmed. What could be the meaning of all this? Determined to find the cause of a state of things so mysterious and so shocking, I kept on until I arrived at the East Room, which I entered. There I met with a sickening surprise. Before me was a catafalque, on which rested a corpse wrapped in funeral vestments. Around it were stationed soldiers who were acting as guards; and there was a throng of people, gazing mournfully upon the corpse, whose face was covered, others weeping pitifully. 'Who is dead in the White House?' I demanded of one of the soldiers, 'The President,' was his answer; 'he was killed by an assassin.' Then came a loud burst of grief from the crowd, which woke me from my dream. I slept no more that night; and although it was only a dream, I have been strangely annoyed by it ever since."
    pull the string!

  42. #42
    Nicki Guest

    Abe Lincoln

    Hoping we have some historians here. What is the real scoop on this man. Coming from a Century where Slaves, Prejudice were plentiful, did Old Abe possess any of these impressions of his own. A cousin of my is saying he did.
    I did find one article entitled The Dark Side of Abraham Lincoln.

    http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws198.htm

    FEBRUARY 6, 2009 1:07PM
    The Real Abe Lincoln----Honest

    Had enough of Abraham Lincoln? Of course you haven't. In the bicentennial year of his birth, Lincoln is more interesting than ever. There are two Lincolns -- the one we studied in school, the one full of myths that we fashioned into the image we wanted him to be, and the other, the real Lincoln, warts and all.Many believe, erroneously, that because Lincoln signed The Emancipation Proclamation, he was always against slavery and an advocate for black people. Many also believe that the Proclamation freed all slaves immediately and forever. These myths are debunked in a new book and TV program ("Looking for Lincoln" airing Feb. 11 on PBS). The book ("Lincoln on Race and Slavery") and the TV documentary are the works of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., who adds to his excellent body of material on race and African-American roots. Far from diminishing Lincoln, the book and film deliver the real Lincoln as a man who struggled, along with his country and culture, over the inherent worth of black people. In short, he becomes fully human, not a mythical figure above the temptations and frailties of average mortals. Lincoln evolved in the best sense of that word. Though like many in his and our time, he wrestled with his inner demons. As Gates writes, "... He seems to have wrestled with his own use of the 'n-word,' which he used publicly until at least 1862, and which most Lincoln scholars today find so surprising and embarrassing that they consistently avoid discussing it ..." Yet, in a letter to Albert G. Hodges on April 4, 1864, Lincoln wrote. "I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not think so, and feel." Is this a contradiction, even hypocritical? Not in Lincoln's mind. At several points, extending into the early 1860s, Lincoln seriously considered a proposal to deport all black people and colonize them in Liberia, the Caribbean and/or Latin America. He was dissuaded primarily by the high cost, not by the immorality of such a venture. Just days before his assassination in April 1865, Lincoln gave a speech in which he advocated the right to vote for "very intelligent negroes" and 200,000 black Civil War veterans. The rest he apparently would allow to remain in sub-citizenship because of a lingering belief that blacks, as a race, were not as gifted or intelligent as whites and the few who were should be regarded as exceptions. It was that speech, writes Gates, "overheard by John Wilkes Booth, by Booth's own admission, that led to his decision to assassinate the president."The great abolitionist, Frederick Douglass, was a constant thorn in Lincoln's side, urging him to do what politically he did not always think he could do. Douglass pushed Lincoln toward dramatic and immediate action to free the slaves. He believed Lincoln was his only hope. Lincoln thought he could not move faster than the majority would tolerate and that in a nation already divided by civil war, he did not want to be the one to make things even worse, were that possible. Douglass may have been the one least taken in by the Lincoln myth. While recognizing Lincoln's immense role in freeing some (but not all) slaves, he saw him first and foremost as devoted "to the welfare of the white race..." And yet, in that same tribute to Lincoln following his death, Douglass could also say without contradiction that Lincoln was "the first black man's president: the first to show any respect for their rights as men." In 1876, Douglass was asked to reflect on Lincoln's legacy. He said, "Though Mr. Lincoln shared the prejudices of his white fellow-countrymen against the negro, it is hardly necessary to say that in his heart of hearts he loathed and hated slavery." Lincoln overcame his prejudices sufficiently to begin moving his country in the right direction, culminating in the election of Barack Obama as president of the United States. Without Lincoln, his struggles and political courage in the face of his own prejudices, civil rights for black people would almost certainly have been further delayed and the election of a black president further denied.

    A Picture of the Dead President and also a brief discription of what happen when some theives attempted to steal his body:
    http://www.monstersandcritics.com/sm...o_miss_Feb._16
    Last edited by Nicki; 02-18-2009 at 11:15 PM.

  43. #43
    Chevyheaven Guest
    Yes I do agree about Abe. He was at his best when he was on Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure! It really made me see that he was a man way before his time.

  44. #44
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    Booth of course shot the President over the proposed suffrage for black veterans and others.

    but universal suffrage was a long ways off. women of any sort could not vote till 1920. i think only the head of household,if he was a land owner and his eldest son could only vote in Rhode Island till 1839. there were many other states that held only land owners could vote.

    we should not judge the past by our times,which will look barbaric in 2158.
    Knowlege Comes With Deaths release

    Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell

    "If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra

  45. #45
    STORMIE Guest
    I watched this History Channel's doc about the theft of Lincoln's body. I found it extremely interesting. His body was moved no less than ten times and for a few years was buried in a dank dirty basement to keep bodysnatchers at bay.

  46. #46
    Sam Guest
    I've always thought this was interesting.

    http://www.gayheroes.com/abe.htm

  47. #47
    Shano Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by STORMIE View Post
    I watched this History Channel's doc about the theft of Lincoln's body. I found it extremely interesting. His body was moved no less than ten times and for a few years was buried in a dank dirty basement to keep bodysnatchers at bay.

    I watched this special too. I thought it was very well done and interesting. I had no idea that they had to move him so many times!

    As for Lincoln as a man. I have read many accounts of his life. Some are so glorifying that they are hard to read. This was a man. Just as other men of his time. He was torn with slavery, African American rights, or lack of, women's rights, human rights. He of course used the n__ word. It was not shameful at that time in our history, but remember this was the same time in history it was legal to beat your wife until she almost died.

    He also battled depression. He was human, but since his assassination he has been raised to the level of a God. I admire Lincoln for his stance on slavery, I think he was one of the better Presidents this country has seen. I just wish he was not thought of as such a higher being, but as a man with faults and a good President.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shano View Post
    I watched this special too. I thought it was very well done and interesting. I had no idea that they had to move him so many times!

    As for Lincoln as a man. I have read many accounts of his life. Some are so glorifying that they are hard to read. This was a man. Just as other men of his time. He was torn with slavery, African American rights, or lack of, women's rights, human rights. He of course used the n__ word. It was not shameful at that time in our history, but remember this was the same time in history it was legal to beat your wife until she almost died.

    He also battled depression. He was human, but since his assassination he has been raised to the level of a God. I admire Lincoln for his stance on slavery, I think he was one of the better Presidents this country has seen. I just wish he was not thought of as such a higher being, but as a man with faults and a good President.
    Spot on.
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  49. #49
    Taggerez Guest
    Lincoln has been enshrined as a holy figure by people who ignore actual American history. Many do this because their agenda is not only the deification of Lincoln, but the worship of executive power and nationalism. Mainstream liberals like Doris Kearns-Goodwin have found the false legend of Abraham Lincoln to be useful to their political agenda.

    The real Lincoln is a bit of a problem. For one, Lincoln was a white supremacist all his life as were most white people of his era. The most prominent abolitionists vigorously denounced him as a phony and a fake with regard to his pronouncements about human freedom. The great libertarian/abolitionist from Massachusetts, Lysander Spooner was one of the better critics. The real Lincoln favored the old Hamilton/Clay mercantilist agenda of protectionist tariffs, corporate welfare, central banking, the creation of a giant political patronage machine, and the pursuit of an empire that would rival the British empire. The real Lincoln trampled on individual rights through the suspension of habeas corpus, his imprisonment of thousands of Northern war dissenters, his shutting down of hundreds of opposition newspapers and in other ways.

    Most of us were not taught the actual details of Lincoln's presidentcy nor did our teachers go into Lincoln's personal views.

  50. #50
    MoonRabbit Guest
    People today tend to judge people in the past by today's cultural standards.
    That is impossible in regard to judgment because the culture of those days was totally different from today's cultural standards.
    What was acceptable back then is not acceptable today.

    The majority of the people back then would probably be considered racist by
    today's standards.
    Yet their upbringing since childhood was considered appropriate.


    As Gates writes, "... He (Lincoln) seems to have wrestled with his own use of the 'n-word,' which he used publicly until at least 1862, and which most Lincoln scholars today find so surprising and embarrassing that they consistently avoid discussing it ..

    See what I mean? Lincoln was probably bought up with that ugly word as the norm.

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