Dr. Harold Perelson Murder/Suicide

[Aylen]

Hell I want to open to open the presents

It goes without saying, but that is one of the weirdest things about this story! The unopened presents! Why are they still there? Who are they being kept for? This has been talked about before, but you would assume that after the Perelson family vacated the house that any personal effects would have been cleared out, but no -- at minimum the presents remain! Why?

You know, can you almost understand a situation where someone buys a house and then maybe loses interest. Maybe they had high hopes for remodeling and reselling, or even living there themselves, but due to one thing or another, they were unable to follow through, and the house stands vacant and nothing gets done with it. Except that it seems the current owner has repaired it enough to comply with requests from the city. It makes you wonder if the current owner is purposely leaving it in its current state just to drive people like us nuts! I mean honestly! What other reason could there be after all these years?!

[NOVSTORM]

In the state of Ca they would have to reveal to anyone buying the house about the murder that took place there. Too bad we couldnt go back and find out who sold that house to the present owners family, what realestate agency,

[NOVSTORM]

It goes without saying, but that is one of the weirdest things about this story! The unopened presents! Why are they still there? Who are they being kept for? This has been talked about before, but you would assume that after the Perelson family vacated the house that any personal effects would have been cleared out, but no -- at minimum the presents remain! Why?

You know, can you almost understand a situation where someone buys a house and then maybe loses interest. Maybe they had high hopes for remodeling and reselling, or even living there themselves, but due to one thing or another, they were unable to follow through, and the house stands vacant and nothing gets done with it. Except that it seems the current owner has repaired it enough to comply with requests from the city. It makes you wonder if the current owner is purposely leaving it in its current state just to drive people like us nuts! I mean honestly! What other reason could there be after all these years?!

I believe that whom ever owns that house is related to the family..and some where in some will the house must remain as is for some reason??

A friend of my parents wife dropped dead while doing the wash and the guy never ever changed anything in that house and in his will he left money for up keep and taxes for that house but nothing was ever to be changed. Since my parents are dead I never lerned what happened to that house, if maybe his kid s fought that clause in the will or not..now I wish I knew who to call on that one lol

[Aylen]

I believe that whom ever owns that house is related to the family..and some where in some will the house must remain as is for some reason??

A friend of my parents wife dropped dead while doing the wash and the guy never ever changed anything in that house and in his will he left money for up keep and taxes for that house but nothing was ever to be changed. Since my parents are dead I never lerned what happened to that house, if maybe his kid s fought that clause in the will or not..now I wish I knew who to call on that one lol

You definitely could be onto something in terms of a Will stipulating the house has to remain as is. But why? I must know!

[herekittykitty]

Ooooh, great thought, Nov! I agree with Aylen: that sounds very plausible.

And it could also be that the house was bought but not razed/changed/tampered with/sold to anyone else in order to comply with conditions in someone's will--but whoever carried out those wishes could very well be dead now too. And if that person didn't leave any instruction, then perhaps legally someone's hands are tied.

Also, like Nov points out, here in Japan too any info like suicide/homicide would have to be revealed to potential buyers/renters.

Also, often buildings are left standing here simply because it would cost way too much to raze them. Even if someone wanted to pay for that, the outstanding property taxes make the deal a huge financial drain...

Maaaan, if "arrested for trespassing on private property" didn't look so bad on one's record, I'd love to go poking around in thar...

[Angelina]

It goes without saying, but that is one of the weirdest things about this story! The unopened presents! Why are they still there? Who are they being kept for? This has been talked about before, but you would assume that after the Perelson family vacated the house that any personal effects would have been cleared out, but no -- at minimum the presents remain! Why?

You know, can you almost understand a situation where someone buys a house and then maybe loses interest. Maybe they had high hopes for remodeling and reselling, or even living there themselves, but due to one thing or another, they were unable to follow through, and the house stands vacant and nothing gets done with it. Except that it seems the current owner has repaired it enough to comply with requests from the city. It makes you wonder if the current owner is purposely leaving it in its current state just to drive people like us nuts! I mean honestly! What other reason could there be after all these years?!

What if the owner is a death hag and is getting a real kick out of this thread

[Lisamarie]

I just wonder if there is blood still there and like if you took a luminal light and shined it around what you would see !!! So curiouse!!!! Such a creepy case!

[Aylen]

Anything new from any of our spies...?

[Angelina]

Got all excited then thought someone had managed to sneak a peek

I would if I could but so far away

[navallint]

I read thru these posts a few days ago and became a little obsessed. With all the questions about the family I did a little research.

All information is from public goverment records. Ca birth, marriage, divorce and death indexes. NY & OH birth and death records. Federal Census 1920 & 1930. And city directories.

Dr Harold P. born 2/1/1909 in NY to Henry ( Polish) and Molly ( Russian ) emmigrants.
From US Army enlistment docs:
enlisted 4/27/1942, Fort Jay Governors Island, NY
Branch: warrant officer. Grade: Private. Education: 4 yrs college. civil occupation: Purchasing agent. Height: 65" weight: 149 lbs
SINGLE/NO DEPENDANTS ( when I read this I thought I had the wrong man, as Judith was born in 1941, but the address matches exactly ).

Lillian SILVER Perelson was born in 1914 in Ohio to Benjamin (Austria) and Minnie (NY). In 1920 the family was living in Summit Co., Chyahoga Falls, OH.
She had 2 brothers, Henry and Arnold, and one sister, Anna. Her father was a store manager.

Judith Rachel Perelson was born July 31, 1941 in LA, CA ( from CA birth records, mothers maiden name SILVER )
Sept. 9, 1962 she married Richard W. Udko in LA, CA.
They divorced in May 1970 in LA. ( I found many listing for him up to 2002, nothing for her).

Joel David Perelson was born April 7, 1946 in LA, CA. From 1993 to 97 he lived at N. Poinsettia PL. in LA. He now lives in NY.

Deborah Lynne Perelson born Feb. 16, 1948 in LA, CA. She is married to Donald Gable.
Judiths name is now Handler.
All 3 children are still living.
I have made the assumption that they were taken in by their fathers sister Esther Perelson Kramer who lived in NY, but Judith returned to LA and married Richard Udko, maybe her brother was with her, and the youngest, Deborah, stayed with her aunt. ( I could find no marriage, directories listing her in any state)
I finally goggled her this morning, and happened on this!!
Their cousin, Esthers son, obit.
　
[SIZE=5][SIZE=5]Arthur Robert Kramer [/SIZE]
[SIZE=5][/SIZE][/SIZE]November 04, 1950 - September 16, 2009
Kramer, Arthur Robert, age 58, of Sebastian, FL, formerly of Boynton Beach, FL., was taken from family and friends suddenly on September 16, 2009 at Sebastian River Medical Center, Sebastian, FL. He was born and raised in Queens, NY and moved to North Carolina in 1978, where he worked as a machinist for his Fatherâ??s business. He moved to Boynton Beach, FL in 1983. He was an avid golfer, bowler, and fisherman. His love of golf was the reason he changed careers midlife, working in golf maintenance as a greens keeper. He was preceded in death by father, Jacob Kramer. Cherishing his memory is wife Sheila, daughter Katie, son Christian, and mother Esther (Perelson), cousins Judith Hendler, Joel Perelson, Debbie and Donald Gabel, and Furbie, his cat.
[SIZE=4][SIZE=4]Funeral Information[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE][/SIZE]There will be a gathering of family and friends for a celebration of Arthurâ??s life on October 24, 2009 from 3-6PM at the home of Paul & Jill Welling in Lighthouse Point, FL
[SIZE=2]http://www.yatesfuneralhome.com/obit...p/obitID/76410[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Poor guy, wonder how many Seinfield jokes he had thrown at him [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Shelly[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]

[Aylen]

^Impressive! Thanks for posting!

[herekittykitty]

navallint, excellent!! thanks!

[navallint]

ya'll are very welcome. just wish I had pics of the inside.
doing the research kicked in my vivid imagination..lol
like so many others I think that house is still owned by the Perelson children, on a silent deed.

[NOVSTORM]

ya'll are very welcome. just wish I had pics of the inside.
doing the research kicked in my vivid imagination..lol
like so many others I think that house is still owned by the Perelson children, on a silent deed.

I have that feeling too

[pattykad]

Why doesn't someone just contact this guy and ask if you can get in there?

Several years ago, the city of Los Angeles required Rudy Enriquez, the current owner, to replace peeling stucco and walkway walls, and to repaint the place, neighbors say.
"We had major problems," said Jude Margolis, a former neighbor.
"Hookers were coming in. Everybody was bringing guests up there. One night, I was sitting outside and I noticed that people were over there having a picnic in the backyard." After that, the burglar alarm was installed.
Enriquez inherited the mansion when his mother died in 1994. He has been approached many times by potential buyers but has refused to sell.
He hasn't decided what he wants to do with the property, he says.
"I asked him why not lease it, at least. You can't have a house sit empty for 50 years and not expect it to fall apart. It's a tear-down now. It's a shame," Margolis said.
Enriquez, 77, a retired music store manager, remains uncertain about his plans for the estate.
"I don't know that I want to live there or even stay here," he said.
But it has nothing to do with the mansion's violent past.
"I've never looked at it as being haunted," he said. "I still go there often - I was there last night, in fact. I think now I'll be going more often ... The only spooky thing there is me

[Flowergrrl]

Why has the current owner kept the home as it was on Dec. 6, 1959? Will another family ever again bring life to the estate once described in a sales ad as "beautiful" and "delightful"?

Who the fuck cares?! This place should be opened as a museum... I mean this spews of creepiness. To be able to go in there with all the original furniture and placements. Whoa.

[BigBootyJudy]

I wonder if we sent the owner a letter stating we would give a small donation for a personal tour (under the false guise of course that we were interested in the architecture or some such BS) if that would spark some interest on his part to open the place. That is one get together I would NOT miss.

[NOVSTORM]

I wonder if we sent the owner a letter stating we would give a small donation for a personal tour (under the false guise of course that we were interested in the architecture or some such BS) if that would spark some interest on his part to open the place. That is one get together I would NOT miss.

Whyt not just be honest and tell him that we want to see the house that we belong to FAD and this is what they do. Tell them about Scott and ask them if they have ever don e atour..be honest maybe the guy would tell us the story and let one of us in?????????

[Aylen]

I am in favor of whatever excuse (or honest reason) you guys come up with for getting into that house, and I will happily throw in a few dollars towards the donation.

I have a feeling though, that if we're *honest* with the current owner/caretaker about why we want to get in there, they will shut us down. That's just a hunch on my part. Who knows though -- I could be wrong.

[STsFirstmate]

I would consider coming to california for that event! I am a sucker for arrested in time buildings.
A friend who is a transit cop took me to an area under a old school luxury NY hotel which shall remain nameless and showed me an area where the really wealthy parked their private train cars while they were at the hotel. It was wilde. Beautiful old wrought iron kiosts that still had old paper work and items on the desk. An ornate breakroom for the train crews with a goreous parlor stove and furniture. It was so cool!
It has been closed since the early 20s.
This grabs me the same way, christmas gifts and all!~
Good luck!
regards,
Mary

[Linnie]

　
Arthur Robert Kramer November 04, 1950 - September 16, 2009
Kramer, Arthur Robert, age 58, of Sebastian, FL, formerly of Boynton Beach, FL., was taken from family and friends suddenly on September 16, 2009 at Sebastian River Medical Center, Sebastian, FL. He was born and raised in Queens, NY and moved to North Carolina in 1978, where he worked as a machinist for his Fatherâ??s business. He moved to Boynton Beach, FL in 1983. He was an avid golfer, bowler, and fisherman. His love of golf was the reason he changed careers midlife, working in golf maintenance as a greens keeper. He was preceded in death by father, Jacob Kramer. Cherishing his memory is wife Sheila, daughter Katie, son Christian, and mother Esther (Perelson), cousins Judith Hendler, Joel Perelson, Debbie and Donald Gabel, and Furbie, his cat.
http://www.yatesfuneralhome.com/obits/obituaries.php/obitID]

I'll have to keep reading the Guestbook and see if any of the Perelson cousins post a tribute.
That's sad anyway, the mother is outliving her only child.

[RogerV]

What I think might be helpful is someone in the region who can "case" the joint really carefully. I'm not sure if I'd have the nerve to do it myself, but maybe two people, one with a camera, and one with a clipboard, making a big show of taking a pictures then writing a detailed descriptions on the clipboard. It actually WOULD be a detailed descrption, but not the kind that a realtor might be writing down. How close other houses are, and whether they have windows with a view of the house would be noted as well. What would be really impressive is if someone could get their hands on one of those lazer gizmos that you use to estimate distances and dimensions. To really be convincing, our peple would have to show up in a suit and tie or a smart-looking office outfit.

Again, easy for me to make suggestions from all the way up here in Portland...

[imadeathhag]

Man I forgot about this place! I'm with Roger. If someone from the area could really check out the place, it would be awesome. Wish I could help, but I'm all the way over in the East Coast.

[NOVSTORM]

I wonder if we sent the owner a letter stating we would give a small donation for a personal tour (under the false guise of course that we were interested in the architecture or some such BS) if that would spark some interest on his part to open the place. That is one get together I would NOT miss.

I wouild go for this and open up the wallet to contribute.

[pattykad]

I'm in! How much do you think it will take?

[Angelina]

Lets dress in black, get a balaclava and do some ninja moves, on-one will ever notice

[BigBootyJudy]

I have no idea what it would take. I am not surem if the owner could be bought for a measly couple hundred bucks or if he is some bizarre eccentric that would demand thousands. I guess I will look into getting a current address for the owner. Or maybe we can see if we can track down the writer of the newspaper article and see if he has any pull with the guy?

[VeuveClicquotNJ]

Looks like the fabulous Larry Harnisch at the LA Times blog "The Daily Mirror" has dug up some archives on the case:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thed...ec-7-1959.html

Keep scrolling down - there is more than one scan.

VCNJ~

[Dixie Girl]

Awesome find, thank you.

[SomeChick]

Very cool - thanks!

[Angelina]

I don't suppose...........................

[Katrinawitch]

How have I missed this thread, all this time! So creepy and awesome!

This reminds me of the List murders, which happened a few towns over from me in New Jersey. Their house sat abandoned for only a couple of years, though, until it mysteriously burned down. It's been gone for many years, but I would have loved to have checked out that house, too.

[Angelina]

BUMP
Anyone fancy a trip this summer

[GravesEnd]

Funny, after all the years of coming to FAD this is the first time I've noticed this thread. Great thread RogerV. What amazes me is that the place has never been up for sale or that a new home has been built in its place considering the price of real estate property in such an area.

I never cared much for the homes in L.A. I prefer the older 1800's Victorian homes or antebellum mansions back east. I find them to be much creepier and historic.

[GravesEnd]

It reminds me of abandoned homes that have sit unoccupied for decades with personal items still there, even kitchen utensils and food. It was as though the owners just up and left mysteriously.

http://www.mysterymachine.org/mysterymachine_022.htm

[*sarah*]

This is such a great post! It was so interesting to read. There's so many questions though, that will never get answered. I would have a field day just running through that house sifting through all the old things. And I would open every single one of those dang Christmas presents LOL!

[Lisamarie]

Im still all about the luminal testing ...wouldent that be awesome !

[NewYorkDoll]

i never noticed this thread and just read it from start to here (didn't want to say finish b/c i hope it keeps updating). FABULOUS.

[jaylene]

It reminds me of abandoned homes that have sit unoccupied for decades with personal items still there, even kitchen utensils and food. It was as though the owners just up and left mysteriously.

http://www.mysterymachine.org/mysterymachine_022.htm

Very interesting. Don't know if you noticed but there is
an orb in the bottom right picture toward the ceiling.
If anyone believes in that sort of thing. Its weird they
just walked away.

[RogerV]

We managed to dig up a surprising amount of information about this case. We don't know exactly why the doctor finally snapped, though we do know his mental health was bad and that he was in serious financial trouble. We know that he and his wife are buried side by side in a Jewish cemetery. We also know that if any of his children are still living, they do NOT want to be found.

I think that the real mystery now is why the house was purchased from the estate and then allowed to just sit all these years. We've been unsuccessful in establishing a link between the two families, though that's not to say there isn't one there somewhere.

If we could somehow wrangle a tour of the place I think I'd seriously consider flying down from Portland to join it!

[*sarah*]

Im still all about the luminal testing ...wouldent that be awesome !

YES!! I forgot to type that. That would be great to see.

[GravesEnd]

Very interesting. Don't know if you noticed but there is
an orb in the bottom right picture toward the ceiling.
If anyone believes in that sort of thing. Its weird they
just walked away.

I don't put much stock in orbs. It could be anything, speck of dust, moisture, refraction, etc. The only ones I've seen that were interesting were very bright with energy and moving. It is intriguing to go through a home like that and turn things over. It is like a time capsule. That particular home sure had some ugly interior decor, yikes!

[Heavenly Tiger]

It goes without saying, but that is one of the weirdest things about this story! The unopened presents! Why are they still there? Who are they being kept for? This has been talked about before, but you would assume that after the Perelson family vacated the house that any personal effects would have been cleared out, but no -- at minimum the presents remain! Why?

You know, can you almost understand a situation where someone buys a house and then maybe loses interest. Maybe they had high hopes for remodeling and reselling, or even living there themselves, but due to one thing or another, they were unable to follow through, and the house stands vacant and nothing gets done with it. Except that it seems the current owner has repaired it enough to comply with requests from the city. It makes you wonder if the current owner is purposely leaving it in its current state just to drive people like us nuts! I mean honestly! What other reason could there be after all these years?!

I wonder why the presents are even there. If I understand right the Perelsons were Jewish. Jewish people do not celebrate Christmas or at least my friend's family doesn't. Wondering if they were put there afterward by someone else and why leave them for so long

[gemini33]

Last December I was sooo close to this house. Our GPS told us to turn left instead of right, then we had someone get behind us after we turned around, so we decided to leave and try to go back later, but we didn't have the time to go back.

[BelleRain]

http://www.mysterymachine.org/mysterymachine_022.htm

AWESOME site. Those pics were great. Esp the house that had writing on the wall from the 1900's. Making me wanna go look for empty houses like that.

[jaylene]

I don't put much stock in orbs. It could be anything, speck of dust, moisture, refraction, etc. The only ones I've seen that were interesting were very bright with energy and moving. It is intriguing to go through a home like that and turn things over. It is like a time capsule. That particular home sure had some ugly interior decor, yikes!

I'm not one for orbs either but just saw it and thought I would mention it.
Did you see that frig? But going thru that house would have been so neat.
and your right the decor sucks but not as bad as the Amityville house back in its murder day.

[GravesEnd]

I'm not one for orbs either but just saw it and thought I would mention it.
Did you see that frig? But going thru that house would have been so neat.
and your right the decor sucks but not as bad as the Amityville house back in its murder day.

I wonder how long that food has been in that frig? LOL. Yes, I have seen the murder photos inside the Amityville house. That decor I assume from the 70's was awful. It had some of the ugliest colors, ie. drapes and carpet.

[GravesEnd]

http://www.mysterymachine.org/mysterymachine_022.htm

AWESOME site. Those pics were great. Esp the house that had writing on the wall from the 1900's. Making me wanna go look for empty houses like that.

I agree. The one with the early 1900's writing on the wall was one of my favorites. I always have this curiosity about what it is like inside old abandoned homes, the people who resided there, its history, and what was left behind.

[slw]

I've just read this thread all the way through and STILL no one has got any pictures!!

[james1977]

http://www.mysterymachine.org/mysterymachine_022.htm

AWESOME site. Those pics were great. Esp the house that had writing on the wall from the 1900's. Making me wanna go look for empty houses like that.

I wanna go into all of these houses. Imagine a ghost yelling , " Get Out " and you look and no one is there. What a trip. Someone should go into the Los Angeles house and take some pics.