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Thread: Native American Genocide

  1. #51
    MoonRabbit Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Geronimo was known for his powers.
    I'm not sure if he was a male witch but he definitely had powers.
    Big time!

    Female warrior Lozen did too. She could locate where U.S. troops were
    coming from by turning round and round with her palms upward praying
    the Usen (God) for guidance.
    She would get a tingling sensation at the direction of U.S. troops.
    She was not with Geronimo when he was captured due to helping
    an Apache woman give birth.
    It is said this is why Geronimo was captured.

  2. #52
    michael d Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tarsier View Post
    This will get me slapped down but my family on Mom's side descended from the Navajo and Conquistadors so that would make me Mexican technically although her ancestors are North of that line as opposed to the Hope.
    Sorry I have a REAL problem with these tribes. They came to his country like 6-10 thousand years ago before the Egyptians rose to their glory rought six-thousand yerars back. Well before the Romans and Western European Civilization, before the Mongols; what the hell were they doing with themselves in all that time?
    Stone weapons, clay pots Natives in Africa had Metal tipped spears before the Whites got there the Chinese had working bombs by 700 A.D. and where were the Native Americans 700 years later when Columbus arrived? They faught constantly among themselves yet no one built a better mousetrap so to speak? We, this country had plenty of natural resources which could have been developed defensively.
    My mother eliminated my Hispanic ancestry from my background. Dad dropped an African American brought home as a wife from the Civil War. When asked I say I descended from the Chinese (they did have bombs) rather than being from around here (this country).
    I have this image of my ancestors; "today class, we will learn metal working by making a bracelet..."
    I'm not saying it was right but it was natural selection at work.
    I believe that Navajos and those of Athabaskan culture(including Apache who arrived earlier) have only been in the southwest 1500 years. They are believed to have crossed the Bering Strait as they are linguistically tied to northern tribes and even people in eastern Asia. If you want to get into history lessons... I can.

    Again, to lump Native Americans into one grouping or thought is ignorant. There are over 800 recognized groups. Certainly more diverse than all of Europe. Many did have interactions with each other and there were intricate trade routes that connected them over 1000s miles.

    I won't glorify or mystify indigenous people. I get rather tired of the metaphysical thing. Their societies I do believe were a lot more developed and complex than you might think.
    Last edited by michael d; 01-25-2009 at 10:08 PM.

  3. #53
    Chevyheaven Guest
    Well I for one enjoy bingo.

  4. #54
    Taggerez Guest
    what you wrote here is not only not the point, it is completely ignorant
    You can have your own opinion but not your own facts.

    One of the more laughable things I have read on this forum.
    Apparently you're not just a Sikfuk but a dumb one as well:

    The rise of Christianity brought forth the counter idea of “Just War.” Developed first by St. Augustine and elaborated on by St. Thomas Aquinas, Just War rejected pacifism by recognizing situations that make war necessary such as self-defense. But it also acknowledged that justice required restraints on the tactics and weapons of war. Through this ideal, Christians hoped to contain conflicts that took place between rival elites to protect society from the horrors of battle by leaving it as untouched as possible. Though not always realized, the Just War theory did affect the elites of the time who managed to develop a system of rules and regulations for conflicts based upon the theory of Just War. Dutch jurist Grotius and Christian scholastics such as Francisco Suarez and Francisco Vitoria helped to develop the idea of limited war that kept it among soldiers. It was practiced in some wars so long as both sides adhered to it but fell by the wayside after the Battle of Vendee in the French Revolution.

  5. #55
    MoonRabbit Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by michael d View Post
    Again, to lump Native Americans into one grouping or thought is ignorant. There are over 800 recognized groups. Certainly more diverse than all of Europe. Many did have interactions with each other and there were intricate trade routes that connected them over 1000s miles.
    Is it just my imagination or are whites lumped together as "whites"?
    Just seems like there are many different groups of whites.
    Yet they are also lumped together.

  6. #56
    michael d Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MoonRabbit View Post
    Is it just my imagination or are whites lumped together as "whites"?
    Just seems like there are many different groups of whites.
    Yet they are also lumped together.
    Pan American Indian identity is one that has evolved. Many think of plains Indians when they think of Native Americans. That evolution has taken place out of necessity, from the Indian boarding schools, the rise of the Native American Church, The Red Power movement of the 60s, etc. . .
    If you met someone from a tribe in southern Arizona you might assume they are Hispanic. . .

    The point I am trying to make is that there were several different cultures that had their own languages, history, cosmology, architecture, etc. . . When someone starts relating the whole thing to people hunting during the ice age, Aztec societies, and Navajos all being one in the same, they aren't.

  7. #57
    james1977 Guest
    The 19th Century was a very brutal world.I've seen pictures with murderers and criminals just strung up and townspeople and children just standing there looking at them.A very brutal society.The Indians were and still are a great people.Some of their religions make more sense than the white man's religions.I have read stories of wagon trains of whites where the women and children were slaughtered by the Indians ,the men were gone for some reason and all of the women and children were slaughtered .This is probably due to a white man act of violence on the Indian women and children.But 2 wrongs don't make a right and killing women and children should always be off limits.A brutal time and of course The Indians were shafted by the white man.Even today through Eminent Domain city governments can take any land that they want.I wonder where Eminent Domain came from?.I'm sure it originated back in the 19th Century where white men just take what they want.The Indians were shafted and of course Eminent Domain should be outlawed.

  8. #58
    lilangel54701 Guest
    Ok, I'm going to come off as a huge history geek and teacher here but it's what I do so....here goes.

    In most instances, the settlers and the American government did not just come in and take the land and rip it away from the American Indians. Due to a Supreme Court ruling in 1823?, Johnson vs McIntosh, certain land rights had to be established and recognized before negotiating any huge land sales with the Native Americans. This is why we entered into a treaty making era, establishing what areas and what reparations were to be given to what tribes when selling those lands. And yes, those negotiations were mainly a huge show of how much might and power the government had to sort of bully the tribes into signing. I'm sure that there was land stealing going on before this time frame but it's just another explanation of how the U.S. got land in lump sums that they considered to be legal.

    Michael_d, you're right about the Navajo origins and the Bering Straight theory. No, they are not Mexican. They migrated from the North and ended up in the Southwest. I have a sweet map somewhere showing it.

    In terms of the assimilation and acculturation, the violence was horrible but I think that the boarding schools and education to kill out the "Indian" culture was horrid as well. I remember hearing one story about a girl that went to the boarding school and she was told by a white family that was supporting her that she had to scrub and wash her hands and body as thoroughly as possible so she could be come white. Oh, the craziness....

  9. #59
    lilangel54701 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by michael d View Post
    If you met someone from a tribe in southern Arizona you might assume they are Hispanic. . .
    I live in Wisconsin and get mistaken for being Hispanic all the time. And it's not just the white population. The Hispanic population we have here thinks I am as well. I feel bad when I get asked something in Spanish and say that no, I don't speak Spanish.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taggerez View Post
    You can have your own opinion but not your own facts.



    Apparently you're not just a Sikfuk but a dumb one as well:

    The rise of Christianity brought forth the counter idea of ??Just War.? Developed first by St. Augustine and elaborated on by St. Thomas Aquinas, Just War rejected pacifism by recognizing situations that make war necessary such as self-defense. But it also acknowledged that justice required restraints on the tactics and weapons of war. Through this ideal, Christians hoped to contain conflicts that took place between rival elites to protect society from the horrors of battle by leaving it as untouched as possible. Though not always realized, the Just War theory did affect the elites of the time who managed to develop a system of rules and regulations for conflicts based upon the theory of Just War. Dutch jurist Grotius and Christian scholastics such as Francisco Suarez and Francisco Vitoria helped to develop the idea of limited war that kept it among soldiers. It was practiced in some wars so long as both sides adhered to it but fell by the wayside after the Battle of Vendee in the French Revolution.
    lol bullshit. It's just that the ideal, not the reality. Men may draw lines, but those lines get smeared. Just because a society is "Christian" does not mean they beyond reproach in their dealings with enemies. Duh.

    Name calling is against forum rules and you owe Ima an apology, darling.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael d View Post
    Pan American Indian identity is one that has evolved. Many think of plains Indians when they think of Native Americans. That evolution has taken place out of necessity, from the Indian boarding schools, the rise of the Native American Church, The Red Power movement of the 60s, etc. . .
    If you met someone from a tribe in southern Arizona you might assume they are Hispanic. . .

    The point I am trying to make is that there were several different cultures that had their own languages, history, cosmology, architecture, etc. . . When someone starts relating the whole thing to people hunting during the ice age, Aztec societies, and Navajos all being one in the same, they aren't.
    Yeah, it's identity theft.
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  12. #62
    Shano Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lilangel54701 View Post

    but I think that the boarding schools and education to kill out the "Indian" culture was horrid as well. I remember hearing one story about a girl that went to the boarding school and she was told by a white family that was supporting her that she had to scrub and wash her hands and body as thoroughly as possible so she could be come white. Oh, the craziness....
    My grandmother was Sioux, we think. Her and her brother and sister grew up in an orphanage in Oklahoma. Her parents both died on the reservation. The government came in (this was in the 1920's) and took them off. She was never adopted, or sponsored. Nor were her siblings. They took away her name, her heritage, everything. Then made her feel she should be ashamed of who she was. When she married my grandfather who was 100% Irish he made her feel even more ashamed. Even going as far as falsifying our family tree. The feelings then transferred to their children. My mother, who claimed to be 100% Irish until the day she died always had a fantastic tan. My sister still has the baby doll that my grandmother received for Christmas one year in the orphanage. That was the only Christmas present she got while in the home.... they wanted them to be a good Christian boys and girls but yet they were not good enough to buy toys for....

    My grandmother very rarely spoke about her heritage. We just always knew, and knew not to bring it up. To think... I could have gone to college for free, lol...

    but whats worse, two generations lived in denial and self loathing.

  13. #63
    lilangel54701 Guest
    It was typical of the boarding schools to do that. They were forced to forget everything that they knew and learned on the reservation and their culture. They had to cut their hair and forget the language. What was even worse was that even though they were taught how to live in the white society, they still weren't accepted. Many returned back to the reservations with their families and couldn't communicate since they lost the Native language. It's very very sad.

  14. #64
    Vamp Guest
    Fascinating, Cindy. I know so little about Native Americans. The diversity of the tribes fascinate me and these are only the ones in the US! I would also like to learn more about the Central American and South American Natives, especially the Mayans. I understand many people in central America are of combined Native and Spanish blood. I wonder why this is common there but there are so many fewer mixed Anglo/Natives. Was this because of the Massacres?

    I understand there were Native American tribes with women leaders and that is also amazing to me. I read a bit about King Phillip's War that happened in New England at the end of the 17th century. I was amazed that many of the Sachem (sp?) leaders of the tribe were women!! Was this common among some tribes?

    My husband and I were in Northern Michigan at a Native Casino and we went to a Native Museum and to a Pow Wow. We saw boys and girls dance traditional dances and music from pounding on drums. (I have no idea what the right names of this music or dances were.) The children were stunning and it is wonderful to know they are following the tradition of their ancestors.
    Last edited by Vamp; 01-26-2009 at 08:25 AM.

  15. #65
    Vamp Guest

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Fascinating, Cindy. I know so little about Native Americans. The diversity of the tribes fascinate me and these are only the ones in the US! I would also like to learn more about the Central American and South American Natives, especially the Mayans. I understand many people in central America are of combined Native and Spanish blood. I wonder why this is common there but there are so many fewer mixed Anglo/Natives. Was this because of the Massacres?

    I understand there were Native American tribes with women leaders and that is also amazing to me. I read a bit about King Phillip's War that happened in New England at the end of the 17th century. I was amazed that many of the Sachem (sp?) leaders of the tribe were women!! Was this common among some tribes?

    My husband and I were in Northern Michigan at a Native Casino and we went to a Native Museum and to a Pow Wow. We saw boys and girls dance traditional dances and music from pounding on drums. (I have no idea what the right names of this music or dances were.) The children were stunning and it is wonderful to know they are following the tradition of their ancestors.
    I don't know a whole lot about the Central and South American Indios, as they are called. I do know that the Spanish invaiders mixed with the Indios, and perhaps they weren't exposed to the British, etc., as much because the real push happened in North America, which of course includes Mexico. I would have to ask hubs what the tribal names are, but their are to this day Indios living in caves there.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Thanks for this, Vamp. King Phillip's war is a perfect example of what happened in the east.

    King Philip's War, sometimes called Metacom's War or Metacom's Rebellion,[1] was an armed conflict between Native American inhabitants of present-day southern New England and English colonists and their Native American allies from 1675??1676. Colonial historian Francis Jennings estimated that the War killed nearly 7 of every 8 Native Americans and 6 of every 13 English settlers.[dubious ?? discuss] King Philip's War was proportionately one of the bloodiest and costliest in the history of America.[2] More than half of New England's ninety towns were assaulted by Native American warriors.[3]


    To find out why these Indians attacked click on Vamp's link.
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  18. #68
    MoonRabbit Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lilangel54701 View Post
    It was typical of the boarding schools to do that. They were forced to forget everything that they knew and learned on the reservation and their culture. They had to cut their hair and forget the language. What was even worse was that even though they were taught how to live in the white society, they still weren't accepted. Many returned back to the reservations with their families and couldn't communicate since they lost the Native language. It's very very sad.
    There are historical photos of this transition in books and maybe on line.
    W.S. Prettyman the famous photographer I believe photographed
    this type of history.
    Damn I wish Robert Redford or Kevin Costner would film a movie
    on this man. He was so interesting!
    http://digital.library.okstate.edu/e...s/P/PR010.html

    Brad Pitt as William S. Prettyman!

  19. #69
    MoonRabbit Guest
    No one can say American Indian land was not taken from them.
    Too much proof.

    Prettyman photographed the Oklahoma Land runs.
    He had an associate take the photos from a wooden platform
    as he was in the running himself.
    He traveled extensively throughout Oklahoma and Arkansas
    photographing American Indians.
    He also photographed a tribe of Indians with a very old woman
    (seated in a place of honor) in
    the tribe that remembered Lewis & Clark entering their village when
    she was a small child. (sends chills down my back to think of it)

    http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?p...oto_id=1968513

    http://www.hartwick.edu/images/newsf...prettyman1.jpg



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    Don't quote posts that are offensive to you, and keep it civil. This is not the place for hostility to anyone.
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    John Chivington

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chivington

    Black Kettle, chief of a group of around 800 mostly Southern Cheyennes, reported to Fort Lyon in an effort to declare peace. After having done so, he and his band, along with some Arapahos under the chief Left Hand, camped out at nearby Sand Creek, less than 40 miles north. The Cheyenne Dog Soldiers, who had been responsible for much of the conflict with whites, were not part of this encampment. Assured by the U.S. Government's promises of peace, Black Kettle sent most of his warriors to hunt, leaving only around 60 men in the village, most of them too old or too young to participate in the hunt. An American flag was flown over Black Kettle's lodge as he had been instructed in the past that "as long as he flew the American flag, he and his people would be safe from U.S. soldiers."[1]


    In November, setting out from Fort Lyon, Colonel Chivington and his 800 troops of the First Colorado Cavalry, Third Colorado Cavalry and a company of First New Mexico Volunteers marched to their campsite. On the night of November 28, after positioning themselves around the camp, soldiers and militia drank heavily and celebrated the perceived victory.[1] On the morning of November 29, 1864, Chivington ordered his troops to attack. One officer, Captain Silas Soule, believing the Indians to be peaceful, refused to follow Chivington's order and told his men to hold fire. Other soldiers in Chivington's force, however, immediately attacked the village. Disregarding the American flag, and a white flag that was run up shortly after the soldiers commenced firing, Chivington's soldiers massacred the majority of its mostly-unarmed inhabitants in an attack that became known as the Sand Creek Massacre.


    The U.S. forces lost 15 killed and more than 50 wounded.[2] Between the effects of the heavy drinking and the chaos of the assault, the majority of the American forces casualties were due to friendly fire.[1] Between 150 and 200 Indians were estimated dead, nearly all women and children (in testimony before a Congressional committee, Chivington estimated 500-600 Indians killed, few of them women or children [3]). One source from the Cheyenne said that about 53 men and 110 women and children were killed.[4] Many of the dead were mutilated, and most were women, children, and elderly men. Chivington and his men dressed their weapons, hats and gear with scalps and other body parts, including human fetuses and male and female genitalia. They also publicly displayed these battle trophies in the Apollo Theater and saloons in Denver.


    Chivington declared that his forces had fought a battle with hostile Indians and the action was initially celebrated as a victory, with some soldiers callously displaying Indian body parts as trophies. However, the testimony of Soule and his men forced an investigation into the incident, which concluded that Chivington had acted wrongly.


    Soule and some of the men that he commanded testified against Chivington at his Army court martial. Chivington denounced Soule as a liar, and Soule was later murdered by a soldier who had been under Chivington's command at Sand Creek. Some believed Chivington may have been involved.


    Chivington was condemned for his part in the massacre, but he had already left the Army and the general post-Civil War amnesty meant that criminal charges could not be filed against him. However, an Army judge publicly stated that Sand Creek was "a cowardly and cold-blooded slaughter, sufficient to cover its perpetrators with indelible infamy, and the face of every American with shame and indignation." Public outrage at the brutality of the massacre, which included the mutilation of corpses, was intense and it may have convinced the U.S. Congress to later reject the idea of a general war against the Indians of the midwest.


    Because of his position as a lay preacher, the United Methodist General Conference expressed regret In 1996 for the Sand Creek massacre and issued an apology for the "actions of a prominent Methodist." [5]
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  22. #72
    Vamp Guest
    Do you all feel that Dances With Wolves portrayed the Indian Culture well? I enjoyed the movie but I was wondering if it was culturally accurate.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Do you all feel that Dances With Wolves portrayed the Indian Culture well? I enjoyed the movie but I was wondering if it was culturally accurate.
    It's been a long time since I've seen the movie and read the book...but several years ago (early 90s) I corresponded with author Janelle Taylor who has written at least 9 books (novels) about the Dakota Sioux. She researched their culture and they adopted her into their tribe. And remember the Dakota Sioux adopted Costner into their tribe...I think the movie was spot on, for the most part, as far as the Dakota branch of the Sioux Nation.

    BTW the Sioux kicked Costner out of the tribe because he refused to give them a cut of the casino which he either built or was going to build in the Black Hills.
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  24. #74
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    The company that I work for is owned by Native Americans; Choctaws.

    They are generous employers.

    I've said this elsewhere here: it is said that the only thing that Adolph Hitler admired about our American goverment was its' treatment of the American Indian.

    He thought that to be brilliant.

    As stated earlier; a more damning indictment, I cannot imagine.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    The company that I work for is owned by Native Americans; Choctaws.

    They are generous employers.

    I've said this elsewhere here: it is said that the only thing that Adolph Hitler admired about our American goverment was its' treatment of the American Indian.

    He thought that to be brilliant.

    As stated earlier; a more damning indictment, I cannot imagine.
    I had forgotten about that. Thanks, Jim.
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  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    The company that I work for is owned by Native Americans; Choctaws.

    They are generous employers.

    I've said this elsewhere here: it is said that the only thing that Adolph Hitler admired about our American goverment was its' treatment of the American Indian.

    He thought that to be brilliant.

    As stated earlier; a more damning indictment, I cannot imagine.
    Wow, that is an extremely sad but accurate point...if he thought it was right...SO much had to have been SO WRONG.
    Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them. ~Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama

  27. #77
    michael d Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    Do you all feel that Dances With Wolves portrayed the Indian Culture well? I enjoyed the movie but I was wondering if it was culturally accurate.
    A movie that you might enjoy with regards to the present, is 'Smoke Signals.' From my experiences it is a close depiction of the reservation. It was written and filmed by Native Americans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael d View Post
    A movie that you might enjoy with regards to the present, is 'Smoke Signals.' From my experiences it is a close depiction of the reservation. It was written and filmed by Native Americans.
    I've never seen that still, I know lots of people who loved it, who grew up on the same reservation I grew up on...from what I hear it is pretty accurate...I'll have to find it and watch it now.
    Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them. ~Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama

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    Late to the discussion, but I'm about 1/8 combined mix of Cherokee, Chickasaw and Iroquis (way back in the late 17th century). My European ancestors were driven from their home countries by religious wars (Palatine Americans). They were usually shipped to the British colony in the US to get them out of the way or to be used as cheap labor. They often ended up stuck in dangerous buffer zones between British settlements and the Native American tribes with little help from either side.

    Not everyone who came to America had a choice, but most of them made the best of the situation choosing to make friends with Native Americans, even marrying and combining families. It was widespread - that's how so many of us ended up with NA ancestry.

    It helps to make the distinction between individuals and governments when trying to understand the problems. Some of our government leaders made decisions that didn't represent the beliefs of our individual ancestors.

    BTW, a great book I've been reading about the early history of NA tribes in America is 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles Mann. Its a fascinating updated review of the history of early civilizations in America. It challenges quite a lot of the original research we've come to accept. Check it out!

    http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelatio...3111238&sr=1-1

  30. #80
    Vamp Guest
    I read something very interesting in Joseph Ellis' latest book. (He is a history professor that specializes in Revolutionary history and won the Pulitzer for Founding Brothers.) Apparently, George Washington and his main advisor on Indian Affairs, Henry Knox had enlightened views on Native Americans and decided to view them as foreign nations and tried to make a treaty with the Crows and hold back the state of Georgia's expansion. Of course, the more enlightened policy did not last more than a few years.


    The book is called:


    American Creation: Triumphs and Tragedies in the Founding of the Republic (Vintage)and it is discussed in the chapter called "Treaty". Worth a look at your local library.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    I read something very interesting in Joseph Ellis' latest book. (He is a history professor that specializes in Revolutionary history and won the Pulitzer for Founding Brothers.) Apparently, George Washington and his main advisor on Indian Affairs, Henry Knox had enlightened views on Native Americans and decided to view them as foreign nations and tried to make a treaty with the Crows and hold back the state of Georgia's expansion. Of course, the more enlightened policy did not last more than a few years.


    The book is called:


    American Creation: Triumphs and Tragedies in the Founding of the Republic (Vintage)and it is discussed in the chapter called "Treaty". Worth a look at your local library.
    I'll have to read the book. I had read about this. It's just another example of the government not wanting to deal fairly with the Indians. They wanted their land and the Indian shoved in the rocky corner. Can you imagine telling a group of meat eaters to grow crops and then pushing them onto a piece of land that was not firtle.
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  32. #82
    Vamp Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    I'll have to read the book. I had read about this. It's just another example of the government not wanting to deal fairly with the Indians. They wanted their land and the Indian shoved in the rocky corner. Can you imagine telling a group of meat eaters to grow crops and then pushing them onto a piece of land that was not firtle.
    I agree Cindy. George Washington was more moderate than other President in that he was willing to try to use troops to prevent whites from occupying agreed upon Native Land. He wanted to "civilize" Natives which is ridiculous but at least he had some sense of the value of Natives as humans unlike so many other Presidents. (MOST other Presidents.) I was interested in Henry Knox because he seemed almost enlightened about Natives. He started out as a Boston bookseller and became a Revolutionary General.

    Here is something from Wikipedia:

    As Secretary of War, Knox was well and responsible for managing the United States' relations with the Indian tribes within its borders, following a 1789 act of Congress. For the previous three years he had had similar responsibilities under the Congress of the Confederation, although the previous position had little actual authority.[2] Knox used his new position to argue that the United States honor the Native Americans' rights. Usual U.S. government policy involved signing treaties with Native American nations that were not intended to be kept, with the goal of seizing as much Indian land as possible. Knox publicly opposed this policy, the first U.S. government official to do so.[3] He believed that the practice violated the republican principles embodied in the American Revolution.[4] Furthermore, Knox feared that a policy of constant provocation would lead to costly frontier wars that would hurt the nation.[5]
    To this end, Knox argued that the United States should treat Native American tribes as sovereign, foreign nations. He envisioned a humane policy of treaties that would not be broken, resulting in a series of Indian enclaves in the West where the United States would forbid its citizens to settle.[6] He urged President Washington to make a priority of reforming the United States' Indian policy.

    Henry Knox. Published 1881 in Young Persons' Cyclopedia of Persons and Places.


    In 1789 Washington had Knox send a bill to congress to purchase Native lands for $25,394. This was a far cheaper price to pay than to once again battle the natives. The bill made it possible for only the federal government to control native lands, rather than the states administering territories. The natives were now considered foreigners, and forced to cooperate or leave. [1]
    The first test of the new policy came from the negotiations between Knox, Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, and Alexander McGillivray, leader of the Creek Nation. The resulting Treaty of New York guaranteed the Creeks a vast stretch of territory, which the U.S. pledged to protect from the encroachments of its citizens. Settlers continued to pour into Creek territory, however, and the federal troops that Knox sent could not secure the border. McGillivray abandoned the alliance with the United States in 1791, turning to Spanish protection in the Treaty of New Orleans. The failure of the Treaty of New York marked the end of Knox's attempt to enact a new Indian policy.[7]
    On January 2, 1795, Knox left the government and returned to his home at Thomaston, Maine to devote himself to caring for his growing family. He was succeeded as Secretary of War by Timothy Pickering.

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    He was enlightened compared to his peers, but to me it's just common sense to treat all people with dignity and fairness.

    From the breaking of the Treaty of New York and others there after, I do not think anything could be done and the Indian was doomed. Those folks were land hungry--no, greedy is a better word, and they didn't care if they took land that was forbidden.
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  34. #84
    halogirl5 Guest
    This is something I definitely want to know more about. There are a troupe of Native Americans who perform music and dancing in our city centre once every couple of months. there is one guy and he has the most calming, wise face I have ever seen. I could look at it all day...he always wears a real wolf head dress with the ears, I always want to pluck up the courage to ask him to let me look at it. Would he take that as being disrespectful? Im a bit too shy to approach him. I have also seen him buying very fine single malt whisky in a local wine shop. I love the stories I've read where they call animals 'brother bear' etc, they don't see themselves as superior to the animals, and am I right in thinking they thanked the animals when they hunted, for giving their life so the family could eat? I'd love to know more. One thing I always do is apologise to an animal and tell it it's soul is free if I've been in any way responsible for it's death. I think that's a Native American thing I have picked up on a book somewhere, or similar. As I say I love Native American faces; they are like beautiful sculptures. I would love to sit down with an elder and have him or her tell me stories over a fire.

  35. #85
    Vamp Guest
    My hubby and I went to a Native Pow Wow and I know how you feel, Halogirl. We both kept our distance and didn't ask any questions for fear of offending anyone.

    The Native little girls were dancing and they were some of the prettiest children I have ever seen.

  36. #86
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    Hey, I understand both your feelings. I'm only 1/4 and even though I'm technically enrolled and "one of them" I never feel that way. I get strange looks because I'm pretty fair skinned and all...I've never felt comfortable at pow wows or traditional anything really.
    Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them. ~Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama

  37. #87
    kimba Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by halogirl5 View Post
    This is something I definitely want to know more about. There are a troupe of Native Americans who perform music and dancing in our city centre once every couple of months. there is one guy and he has the most calming, wise face I have ever seen. I could look at it all day...he always wears a real wolf head dress with the ears, I always want to pluck up the courage to ask him to let me look at it. Would he take that as being disrespectful? Im a bit too shy to approach him. I have also seen him buying very fine single malt whisky in a local wine shop. I love the stories I've read where they call animals 'brother bear' etc, they don't see themselves as superior to the animals, and am I right in thinking they thanked the animals when they hunted, for giving their life so the family could eat? I'd love to know more. One thing I always do is apologise to an animal and tell it it's soul is free if I've been in any way responsible for it's death. I think that's a Native American thing I have picked up on a book somewhere, or similar. As I say I love Native American faces; they are like beautiful sculptures. I would love to sit down with an elder and have him or her tell me stories over a fire.
    Don't feel uncomfortable, that is what a pow wow is, a time to share culture.
    from Wikipedia:
    (just in case you don't believe me...)
    A modern pow-wow is a specific type of event where both Native American and non-Native American people meet to dance, sing, socialize, and honor American Indian culture. There is generally a dancing competition, often with significant prize money awarded. Pow-wows vary in length from one day session of 5 to 6 hours to three days. Major pow-wows or pow-wows called for a special occasion can be up to one week long.

  38. #88
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    And we wonder how anyone can sit out the national anthem. My white blood is ashamed and my Cherokee blood is furious. http://www.ecowatch.com/leonardo-dic...891129155.html
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    I might get flamed for this, but they're the only true, 'native' Americans! The rest of us are transplants from somewhere.
    Oxford's definition of transplant: A person or thing that has been moved to a new place or situation. That obviously doesn't apply to those of us who were born here.
    Last edited by Maxster; 09-04-2016 at 03:04 PM.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxster View Post
    Oxford's definition of transplant: A person or thing that has been moved to a new place or situation.

    The First Nations make out like they've been in Canada forever, but in fact it's just a few thousand years, since the end of the last glacial.
    And our tribes came across the ice bridge that stretched across the Bering Strait. I am sure there were others here when they came over.
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  41. #91
    PurrPurr Guest
    Deep conditioning my hair

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurrPurr View Post
    Deep conditioning my hair
    You missed a turn back there, Purr. Sorry, but Ahahahaha
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  43. #93
    PurrPurr Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    You missed a turn back there, Purr. Sorry, but Ahahahaha

    I really need to stay off boards when I'm tired. LMAO.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by PurrPurr View Post
    I really need to stay off boards when I'm tired. LMAO.
    Don't feel bad. I got laughed at on AW yesterday in the perpetual song game for writing "Another One Bides the Dust" instead of "Another One Bites the Dust."
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  45. #95
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    I"m glad to see the statue of Christopher Columbus
    had it's head cut off in Boston.
    (He was a racist person)
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

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