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Thread: Wonderland Murders

  1. #151
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by krossvid View Post
    Yep, he was jailed for contempt a few times. In fact, that's one of the rumors as to where he contracted AIDS...prison. Just a rumor though.

    I have not heard what happened to Lind. Wouldn't surprise me if he had died of an overdose though.
    Neither one of those things would surprise me.

  2. #152
    lisalouver Guest
    Since the house was rented in Joy Miller's name, I'm wondering who cleaned the damn place after the murders?

    There were no bio cleaners in 1981, and the house did not belong to Miller, she was only renting, so I wonder who was left with the task?

  3. #153
    STRAIGHT Guest
    I'm not trying to sidetrack the thread but I do think that Holmes did kill some of those people. He was no good, and thats an understatement.

  4. #154
    GODDESS6 Guest
    i have always thought holmes participated too~
    the video now posted on FAD of the crime scene & scott walking thru the house gave me chills~
    back then they took a pretty good video of the scene, which seems like a rarity regarding crimes from some time ago~

  5. #155
    Lisamarie Guest
    Okay just watched the movie!! Very well done flick!! Loved it.....I think being attacked like that in your sleep would be soo horrible ! I

  6. #156
    GODDESS6 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    Okay just watched the movie!! Very well done flick!! Loved it.....I think being attacked like that in your sleep would be soo horrible ! I
    i liked the movie too, i have to buy the double dvd, since so many said it has actual footage from the crimes~

  7. #157
    PvN73 Guest
    Loved the clip Scott!

    Does anyone know if there are any good books on these murders? Am going to get the DVD but would like to read up on it too.

  8. #158
    GODDESS6 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by PvN73 View Post
    Loved the clip Scott!

    Does anyone know if there are any good books on these murders? Am going to get the DVD but would like to read up on it too.
    i was wondering about any books too~

  9. #159
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by GODDESS6 View Post
    i was wondering about any books too~
    Dawn supposedly wrote a book regarding the event called "The Road Through Wonderland." She talks about it quite a bit on her website www.dawn-schiller.com but I don't think it ever got released. It was supposed to be out in like 2005-2006, but if it is I've never seen it.

  10. #160
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    LOL.

    That's what I always wonder with these places. I mean do people buy them just for what they once were?

    Because the place is not that nice!
    I can't lie...if I had the funds I would probably buy it for what it once was.

  11. #161
    burgtwngrl Guest
    I live in Ohio and you can have a mansion here for that price...I'm sure the house isn't in the greatest of shape can you imagine since it's a rental how many people have moved in and out over the years and as I said before it hasn't changed much other than the carpet taken out and it's been painted...still has the same balcony and it looks like it's never been remodeled since the murders in 1981 so I'm sure it needs some TLC to say the least.
    I learned something new today. I'd have to have one hell of a job making an obscene amount of money to afford to live in California. lol that's ok...I can visit any time.

    Hugs fellow Death Hags!

  12. #162
    burgtwngrl Guest
    Oh I almost forgot...I've also been looking for a good book about these murders. I know the two lead detectives in the case wrote a book called "four on the floor" but I can't find it anywhere. I can't find any books in print about right now. I've looked all over the internet. Anyone have any ideas? any sites that may sell used books out of print? I tried Amazon since they sell used books and No luck.

    Any help appreciated.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgtwngrl View Post
    Oh I almost forgot...I've also been looking for a good book about these murders. I know the two lead detectives in the case wrote a book called "four on the floor" but I can't find it anywhere. I can't find any books in print about right now. I've looked all over the internet. Anyone have any ideas? any sites that may sell used books out of print? I tried Amazon since they sell used books and No luck.

    Any help appreciated.
    They never released that book. I've been looking for it too.

    There is a book out called "Scary Monsters and Super Freaks" by Mike Sager. This book has a chapter about John Holmes and the murders. It's a good book overall with all the other good chapters in it. Here's an outline of it from Amazon:

    This strong collection of Sager's articles over the past 20 years for Rolling Stone and GQ demonstrates his skill as a reporter whose main interest is investigating America's dark and lurid corners. Most of the articles divide roughly into two groups. The first focuses on well-known subjects such as porn star John Holmes's drug-induced decline ("The Devil and John Holmes"), actor Rob Lowe's infamous sex tape ("Rob Lowe's Girl Trouble") and funk-rocker Rick James's obsession with freebase cocaine and violence ("The Rise and Fall of a Super Freak"). The second explores lesser known but often more horrible incidents, such as "The Death of a High School Narc" in Midlothian, Tex. Sager incorporates in all the articles such journalistic devices as scene-by-scene construction, realistic dialogue and third-person point of view, completely capturing everyday details of a subject's life. But two articles are especially compelling. One is an intimate portrait of Janet Cooke (with whom Sager was once involved), the journalist whose Pulitzer Prize-winning, and fake, story about an eight-year-old heroin addict got her fired from the Washington Post; the other is a lengthy, detailed look at the life and death of author Carlos Castaneda.

  14. #164
    Auntie Vi Guest
    Long time Money and Lots of Cocaine by Rodger Jacobs is one I downloaded from Lulu press, with testimony from David Lind, the getaway car driver, and NOT John Holmes, since he didn't testify, but it was his trial.

    http://8763wonderland.wordpress.com/
    is his home page, he's done extensive work on this case

  15. #165
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Auntie Vi View Post
    Long time Money and Lots of Cocaine by Rodger Jacobs is one I downloaded from Lulu press, with testimony from David Lind, the getaway car driver, and NOT John Holmes, since he didn't testify, but it was his trial.

    http://8763wonderland.wordpress.com/
    is his home page, he's done extensive work on this case
    Yes, I forgot about that one. I believe Dawn has a link to this on her page as well.

  16. #166
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by krossvid View Post
    I can't lie...if I had the funds I would probably buy it for what it once was.
    Me too.

  17. #167
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by krossvid View Post
    Dawn supposedly wrote a book regarding the event called "The Road Through Wonderland." She talks about it quite a bit on her website www.dawn-schiller.com but I don't think it ever got released. It was supposed to be out in like 2005-2006, but if it is I've never seen it.

    You know, I followed Dawn's blog for a while, but it is so strange about the book because she never answers when people ask her when it is coming out.

    It makes me wonder if she really wrote one?

  18. #168
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    You know, I followed Dawn's blog for a while, but it is so strange about the book because she never answers when people ask her when it is coming out.

    It makes me wonder if she really wrote one?
    Good point. As a matter of fact, I don't think she has posted anything at all since January 2008. Her flurry of activity on the site was not too long after the release of the Wonderland movie...perhaps trying to piggyback on it's success.

  19. #169
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    Me too.
    As a matter of fact, I work in real estate and my first name is Jon. We used to always joke that I should start my own company called Jon's Homes. The motto would be "we go the extra length for you." Wonder if anyone would ever get it...lol

  20. #170
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by krossvid View Post
    Good point. As a matter of fact, I don't think she has posted anything at all since January 2008. Her flurry of activity on the site was not too long after the release of the Wonderland movie...perhaps trying to piggyback on it's success.
    Yes, you are correct.

    I wonder about that too. The end of the movie after all did say that Dawn was currently working on a book about her life with John Holmes.

  21. #171
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by krossvid View Post
    As a matter of fact, I work in real estate and my first name is Jon. We used to always joke that I should start my own company called Jon's Homes. The motto would be "we go the extra length for you." Wonder if anyone would ever get it...lol
    Well I know I would!

    What a great catch phrase!

  22. #172
    burgtwngrl Guest
    I've looked for Dawn's Book also and I don't think it exists. I don't think there is one book devoted to just the wonderland murders.

  23. #173
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by burgtwngrl View Post
    I've looked for Dawn's Book also and I don't think it exists. I don't think there is one book devoted to just the wonderland murders.
    Must not be...one in print anyway. I can imagine it being a little harder to write one now with so much time having passed and so many key players dead or unable to be located.

  24. #174
    Filmmaker78 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by GODDESS6 View Post
    back then they took a pretty good video of the scene, which seems like a rarity regarding crimes from some time ago~
    I believe the Wikipedia page on the Wonderland murders mentions that this was the first time video of a crime scene was recorded for use in court. That's a pretty nice piece of crime trivia, if true.

    I personally don't think Holmes actually beat anybody, but between the story from his ex-wife about him showing up covered in blood, and the bloody handprint near one of the victims, I would bet he helped hold down one or more of the victims while they were beaten.

    Holmes strikes me as a spineless loser strung out on coke -- I don't think he had what it takes to beat someone to death, and if he was unwillingly dragged to the house by Nash's men, I doubt they would have given him a weapon. He helps the Wonderland Gang pull off the robbery, and two days later he's helping Nash's henchmen beat them to death? I don't know...
    Last edited by Filmmaker78; 05-21-2008 at 07:57 PM.

  25. #175
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Filmmaker78 View Post
    I believe the Wikipedia page on the Wonderland murders mentions that this was the first time video of the crime scene was recorded for use in court. That's a pretty nice piece of crime trivia, if true.

    I personally don't think Holmes actually beat anybody, but between the story from his ex-wife about him showing up covered in blood, and the bloody handprint near one of the victims, I would bet he hoped hold down one or more of the victims while they were beaten.

    Holmes strikes me as a spineless loser strung out on coke -- I don't think he had what it takes to beat someone to death, and if he was unwillingly dragged to the house by Nash's men, I doubt they would have given him a weapon. He helps the Wonderland Gang pull off the robbery, and two days later he's helping Nash's henchmen beat them to death? I don't know...
    Exactly my thoughts on Holmes involvement.

  26. #176
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by krossvid View Post
    Exactly my thoughts on Holmes involvement.
    Me too!

  27. #177
    ozzysmom Guest
    ditto!!

  28. #178
    Queen_Death_Hag Guest
    Scott & Filmmaker excellent work!!! I would love to buy that house. I would turn it into a morbid bed & breakfast, of course Scott would be first on the guest list! Thanks guys you're the best!!

  29. #179
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen_Death_Hag View Post
    Scott & Filmmaker excellent work!!! I would love to buy that house. I would turn it into a morbid bed & breakfast, of course Scott would be first on the guest list! Thanks guys you're the best!!
    You're onto something there Queen! I believe some folks bought the old Lizzie Borden house and did just that with it, and it's very successful.

    Aren't murder houses usually on the market dirt cheap, especially notorious murder houses? Hmmmm.....

  30. #180
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    I've heard mostly people in law enforcement, fire depart, ect will buy houses that had murders in them, since they aren't bothered by that sort of thing.

    There are cultures (Asian mostly) who will NOT move in a house someone died in - due to superstitions.

    I just won't based on the karma over the house.

  31. #181
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    I've heard mostly people in law enforcement, fire depart, ect will buy houses that had murders in them, since they aren't bothered by that sort of thing.

    There are cultures (Asian mostly) who will NOT move in a house someone died in - due to superstitions.

    I just won't based on the karma over the house.
    Yea, I guess I would buy it if I had that kind of money to just toss around!

  32. #182
    krossvid Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen_Death_Hag View Post
    Scott & Filmmaker excellent work!!! I would love to buy that house. I would turn it into a morbid bed & breakfast, of course Scott would be first on the guest list! Thanks guys you're the best!!
    I've often thought of that, but you'd have generate a tremendous stream of income to cover the mortgage and other expenses of a property like Wonderland. Not that it can't be done, but it would be tough.

  33. #183
    burgtwngrl Guest
    Wonderland hands down... Autofocus was slow and boring...by today's standards Crane's "issues" are mild...

  34. #184
    burgtwngrl Guest
    John Holmes Contracted AIDS from doing Gay Porn after he was aquitted of the Wonderland murders...He did at least one Gay Porn movie and the man who he had sex with in the movie was HIV positive at the time although it's not known if he knew he was infected.

    From what I've seen in the movie and what I have read Ron Lanius used to humiliate John Holmes... IMO I think John helped Kill Ron. It was above Ron's body that Holmes' bloody palm print was found. John had Rage to him; he beat Sharon and Dawn. Along with his Drug problem he had a sociopathic personality disorder so yes I think he could Kill and really show no remorse which from what I've seen in Read he had no remorse at all.
    Sociopath.

  35. #185
    krossvid Guest
    I thought Wonderland was by far the much better movie.

  36. #186
    burgtwngrl Guest
    Joey Yale was the actor that supposedly infected John Holmes with HIV. Joey Yale died of AIDS in 1986. John also did Gay Porn in Loop films before he made a name for himself in full feature adult films and it's been said he dabbled in Male Prostitution.

    There are stories that while he was in Jail after the wonderland murders that he had a "relationship" with a Prisoner that was HIV positive and there are stories that other prisoners used to bribe Holmes with Beer, Cigarettes, money and contraband to Sodomize other prisoners... essentually he was paid to RAPE other men for the pleasure of other Prisoners to Watch! SOCIOPATH.... NO Remorse.

  37. #187
    krossvid Guest
    John could have contracted HIV from the gay porn, prison, and there is even a theory he got it from needles. Sharon and Dawn said he was terrified of needles...actors and actresses on sets said they saw John with needles and track marks. You can make a strong case for any theory...much like whether or not he participated in the Wonderland murders.

  38. #188
    lisalouver Guest
    I never saw Autofucus.

    I should check it out.

    Wonderland by far is one of my favortie movies of all times. I saw it in the theatre when it came out and got the DVD right away when that came out.

  39. #189
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    If anyone his stills of the bodies from the crime scene walk through, I'd be forever grateful if I could use them on my website. PM them to me if you do!
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    If anyone his stills of the bodies from the crime scene walk through, I'd be forever grateful if I could use them on my website. PM them to me if you do!
    They are either on this thread or the John Holmes one. Someone posted them up a week or so ago...

  41. #191
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    The other day I watched "John Holmes and the Wonderland Murders" which was one of E!'s True Hollywood stories. Pretty good stuff.

    I find it interesting how Liberace's ex-boyfriend , Scott Thorson was involved in it all. Apparently he was a big time crackhead and hung out at Eddie's house a lot. He testified about being there the night John was confronted about the robbery and heard Eddie and his guys roughing him up in another room.

    Scott was still there after they came back from killing all those people and remembered seeing John covered in blood.

  42. #192
    Chevyheaven Guest
    Autofocus was like really bad and like I am soo into like you know not giving like any thumbs because you know its like just not you know worth it, you know?

  43. #193
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    The other day I watched "John Holmes and the Wonderland Murders" which was one of E!'s True Hollywood stories. Pretty good stuff.

    I find it interesting how Liberace's ex-boyfriend , Scott Thorson was involved in it all. Apparently he was a big time crackhead and hung out at Eddie's house a lot. He testified about being there the night John was confronted about the robbery and heard Eddie and his guys roughing him up in another room.

    Scott was still there after they came back from killing all those people and remembered seeing John covered in blood.
    I don't think I saw that one Aries, cool!

    I also did not know about Thorson, but that must have been where they got the idea in the film where John is tied in the chair and they are roughing him up and Eddie has John's phone book and threatens to hurt his family (sharon and dawn).

  44. #194
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    Great video Scott & fm78! I could not stop thinking about this whole case last night at work. I wish I still lived in Los Angeles, I would totally rent that house. $2500 is soooo cheap! I had a 1BR 1Bath apt in Studio City that I paid $1200 a month for.

  45. #195
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    I really like "Wonderland". I fell asleep watching "Autofocus"

  46. #196
    Sam Guest
    With all the talk about "Wonderland" I went to rent it at Blockbuster yesterday. I couldn't find it so I finally asked the kid behind the counter. He asked "Is that the one with Val Kilmer?" He looked it up and they had one copy for sale at $9.99. He couldn't find it either, but finally remembered it was under the counter marked $7.99 waiting to be marked up to $9.99.
    My boyfriend was out in the car and tried to call me to see what was taking so long and my phone rang in the center console.
    I bought the movie and and came home and watched it. I found it a little boring and he found it a LOT boring.
    After that I don't think I'll bother with "Autofocus".

  47. #197
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    With all the talk about "Wonderland" I went to rent it at Blockbuster yesterday. I couldn't find it so I finally asked the kid behind the counter. He asked "Is that the one with Val Kilmer?" He looked it up and they had one copy for sale at $9.99. He couldn't find it either, but finally remembered it was under the counter marked $7.99 waiting to be marked up to $9.99.
    My boyfriend was out in the car and tried to call me to see what was taking so long and my phone rang in the center console.
    I bought the movie and and came home and watched it. I found it a little boring and he found it a LOT boring.
    After that I don't think I'll bother with "Autofocus".
    After reading this thread, I will not bother with Autofocus.

    You are the first person that I have heard who did not like Wonderland.

    Val Kilmer's acting was brilliant, I thought.

    I also thought Lisa Kudrow did a great job of making me forget she was Pheobe.

    I am a huge Kilmer fan though and have been interested in the Wonderland case for years though, so I am a but biased.

  48. #198
    tarsier Guest
    I long ago concluded true crime makes boring drama great to read dull to watch. rue unsolved crime is the worst of all; anyoen see Wolfcreek? Talk about a lost eighy minutes of life!

  49. #199
    Sam Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    After reading this thread, I will not bother with Autofocus.

    You are the first person that I have heard who did not like Wonderland.

    Val Kilmer's acting was brilliant, I thought.

    I also thought Lisa Kudrow did a great job of making me forget she was Pheobe.

    I am a huge Kilmer fan though and have been interested in the Wonderland case for years though, so I am a but biased.
    I'm sure I found it more interesting than he did just because of this web site, so if it hadn't been for his complaining maybe I would have actually enjoyed it?
    He's also one of those people who talks all through a movie asking, "Why is he doing that? Where is she going? Who are those people?"
    I tell him, "Why don't you be quiet and we'll find out together?"

    I felt bad for Lisa because I remember her from " Michelle and Romi's High School Reunion" she did a fine job as an actress, but it made me want to get a neck lift.
    Which I DO need!

  50. #200
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I'm sure I found it more interesting than he did just because of this web site, so if it hadn't been for his complaining maybe I would have actually enjoyed it?
    He's also one of those people who talks all through a movie asking, "Why is he doing that? Where is she going? Who are those people?"
    I tell him, "Why don't you be quiet and we'll find out together?"

    I felt bad for Lisa because I remember her from " Michelle and Romi's High School Reunion" she did a fine job as an actress, but it made me want to get a neck lift.
    Which I DO need!
    LOL on both your bf talking and asking questions (that bugs the hell out of me!) and I agree on Lisa. She was fantastic in Romy and Michelle and yes, her neck is bothersome.

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