Thank you Outlier, for posting that link! Those photos are fabulous! What a step back in time those pictures represent. Many thanks, to you, again!
Renowned Death Hag
Thank you Outlier, for posting that link! Those photos are fabulous! What a step back in time those pictures represent. Many thanks, to you, again!
"So many faces in and out of my life. Some will last, some will just be now and then. Life is a series of Hellos and Goodbyes, I'm afraid it's time for Goodbye again. "
WOW that phone call was rad.its sad that the industry is stupid and that decca didnt even know that they owned brunswick...and buddy was such a gentleman on the phone with them,you guys really need to check it out.
I really enjoyed that phone call, even though that guy was a dick. Buddy had such a sweet speaking voice to go along with that amazing singing voice.
Thanks for the link to that phone call.
Fantastic!
What a dick! He knew Buddy was wanting to turn those songs into hits and he tries to snow him into thinking that he should let him hear the demos and then he'll release the songs! Sure... once he heard them and they were better than the summer session he would have screwed Buddy.
On a lighter note, I loved how Buddy said Okie Dokie a lot!So sweet and he was so respectful. And then he ended the convo with "Thank you not". Made my heart melt for him!
So here is a question. Did Buddy record any of his other conversations? I wonder if there are any more out there somewhere. I am figuring that he recorded the conversation because he wanted to have record of wither or not they were releasing the songs to him. But do you think he had any other reason to record it?
Oh and the operators on the first call.... BITCHES! God they were rude to the Lubbock operator!
I think Buddy was just being very savvy. All he had to do was get the verbal confirmation he was free to re-record the tunes. I think the sound of defeat in Buddy's voice was more of an "oh shit, now we have to tell decca that we've signed with Brunswick who are going to release the re-recording of That'll be the Day". I wouldn't be surprised if Norman Petty but the idea of recording the conversation in Buddys head.
By the way.. he did a great job of recording the conversation didn't he? He would have had a lucrative career with the CIA if he hadn't gone into music
All of this just makes me think how much more fascinating a more realistic bio of Buddy would have been as opposed to THE BUDDY HOLLY STORY.. I really love the movie as it opened up Buddy to a much wider audience and was a fun flick.. I just think that the true story was just as dramatic.
Call me a weirdo but I find Buddy more attractive than Elvis. I can appreciate Elvis good looks but I never looked at him and thought cor!
Whereas Buddy .. there's something about him.
Originally Posted by LadyDay
Not to over analyze your post but I don't think it is Elvis vs. Buddy. Sure you are either attracted to what Elvis looked like or what Buddy looked like, but they are actually very similar in what makes them appealing.
Both were small town southern boys, with southern draws. Both were very respectful when talking to others, both were very giving. They also both were sensitive with a bit of masculine thrown in for good measure. Neither Buddy nor Elvis were considered handsome until they made it big. They both had a "different" look about them. Back in the 50's the beefy uber testosterone guys, just like now, were the ones considered handsome and sought after. Buddy nor Elvis fit into that mindset. Buddy was in a way geeky looking and Elvis had funny hair and big lips. Both were skinny with no muscle to them. But you put a mic and guiter in a guys hands and bam... they become very attractive.
I agree with you that there is something about Buddy. I also have a thing for Elvis and James Dean. Dean also fits into what I said above. I think it is also that we have read books, interviews and personal stories about them. The more you get to know of someone the more attractive they may become.
I think Buddy was just being very savvy. All he had to do was get the verbal confirmation he was free to re-record the tunes. I think the sound of defeat in Buddy's voice was more of an "oh shit, now we have to tell decca that we've signed with Brunswick who are going to release the re-recording of That'll be the Day". I wouldn't be surprised if Norman Petty but the idea of recording the conversation in Buddys head.
By the way.. he did a great job of recording the conversation didn't he? He would have had a lucrative career with the CIA if he hadn't gone into music
All of this just makes me think how much more fascinating a more realistic bio of Buddy would have been as opposed to THE BUDDY HOLLY STORY.. I really love the movie as it opened up Buddy to a much wider audience and was a fun flick.. I just think that the true story was just as dramatic.
After listening to it again you are right.... the "Oh shit!" moment is definitely there! Poor Buddy! lol
He did do a good job recording the phone call! I was surprised that he had it on during the exchange between the operators. (Bitches! lol) Maybe Buddy could have fell back on a career in the CIA!
I have always loved The Buddy Holly story with Batshit crazy Gary B.! But I would be the first in line if they ever had a more factual account about his life. Same for Elvis, James Dean, Marilyn, etc. But I don't know if that could ever happen.Producers, writers, and directors seem more interested in making it theatrical instead of factual.
A very interesting response. You're right about the more you read about them. Like you I adore James Dean and fancy him in the same way I like Buddy.Not to over analyze your post but I don't think it is Elvis vs. Buddy. Sure you are either attracted to what Elvis looked like or what Buddy looked like, but they are actually very similar in what makes them appealing.
Both were small town southern boys, with southern draws. Both were very respectful when talking to others, both were very giving. They also both were sensitive with a bit of masculine thrown in for good measure. Neither Buddy nor Elvis were considered handsome until they made it big. They both had a "different" look about them. Back in the 50's the beefy uber testosterone guys, just like now, were the ones considered handsome and sought after. Buddy nor Elvis fit into that mindset. Buddy was in a way geeky looking and Elvis had funny hair and big lips. Both were skinny with no muscle to them. But you put a mic and guiter in a guys hands and bam... they become very attractive.
I agree with you that there is something about Buddy. I also have a thing for Elvis and James Dean. Dean also fits into what I said above. I think it is also that we have read books, interviews and personal stories about them. The more you get to know of someone the more attractive they may become.
Now you mention it, I started fancying Buddy after reading a biography - he seemed like his own man at a very young age - I think I liked that maturity he had - makes him more manly somehow.
Whereas Elvis, although I like him and my heart goes out to him, I didn't like the weakness in his character, ie, not standing up to the colonel etc.
Buddy did indeed seem very sophistcated for his age. He was kind of quiet and meek lookingin the early pics but by late 1957 he was a commanding presence. By mid 1958 he was projecting an amazing confidence an maturity.. startling really compared to the gangliness of a few months previous. The last pics of him with his ascot and thick frames are astounding. I have to stop and remind myself that he was just 22 years old!!
Just think.. Buddy was living in Greenwich Village and was being exposed to so many different things. He was becoming sophisticated beyond his years and it carried through into the music he was making. The adult themes of loss and love in those apartment demos were pretty sharp for 1958-9, almost like what later became the singer-songwriter genre as we know it know.
I am sorry but I did not mention your family and I did not say that anyone who has an accent was illiterate..do not put words in my mouth that I did not say. I was talking about Hollys wife and not you or your family or anyone else for that matter.
There is just something about Buddy I love...he seemed like a really nice guy. He wasn't so bad looking either
Here is a question for Gary... or anyone that may know.
I know that Elvis sent flowers to all of the funerals (or at least that is what I have read) but did Elvis ever say anything publicly about the deaths of Buddy, J.P., and Ritchie?
those pics w/ him and those women in them? i would have looked SOOOOO much better with his arms around ME!
omg his voice. my spine melted like butta. omg.+
i got me some issues w/ this. big time.
I'm finally back!! Actually I've been back but my computer hasn't been....it's been in the shop since I got back from Clear Lake so I will post my recollections of the 50th Anniversary VERY SOON. I promise.
As for Elvis saying anything publicly about the deaths of the three.....there's been nothing I ever heard of, but I am sure I read somewhere that Elvis did telegram the families of the three offering his condolences.
Glad your back and can't wait to hear all of the good stuff!!
Thanks for answering my question. I wonder how much those telegrams would be worth now! Wow!Heaven!
If anybody is interested in the Clear Lake trip you will have to PM me. I tried posting last night but there is a word limit on posts and my message is almost double! (ha ha ha)
You said she barely sounded literate. You show your ignorance and dare I say, touch of racism, in making that statement. I listened to her clip and so did my husband again just now and there was absolutely *nothing* wrong with her grammar or her English. She just happens to have a thick accent.
These were your words, mind you...
"I cannot believe his 'widow" doesn't speak good English?? They say this is buddys widow talking but she barley sounds literate.."
And whether you like it or not, she IS his widow. I find it disgusting how people judge her for things like not grieving the way you think she should, trying to move on with her life, etc. No one is perfect, not her, not Holly's family, not even the people who were there have a straight answer on what went on. Perception and recollection only go so far.
Renowned Death Hag
I think tonight me and my Dad are going to see Buddy's Holly Winter Dance Party show in my hometown! It's an spectacular anniversary celebration show starring Marc Robinson as Buddy Holly, Mike King from In Dreams as Dion, star of Elvis the Musical, Tim Harwood as Ritchie Valens, and Jaymz Dening from Buddy the Musical performing as ‘Big’Bopper. Backed by live music from the ‘Counterfeit Crickets’. Prepare to ‘rock’! It sounds fun, even if I have a broken foot
Last edited by Spooky_Stone; 02-18-2009 at 02:31 AM.
Have fun, Spooky! I hope it's more "true to life" than the WDP that John Mueller does over here.
I'm a big Buddy Holly fan, and I have never seen those particular images before. Thanks to Outlier for finding them and posting the link.
Does anyone know if any photographs have ever surfaced from their last night at Clear Lake? I would really like to see something from that last concert.
Last edited by joS3ph; 02-18-2009 at 05:43 AM.
Yes, several photos have turned up. The most recent ones are EXCELLENT shots taken fairly close. Two of Ritchie, one of Dion & The Belmonts (with Buddy on drums!), a couple of Buddy, one of Frankie Sardo and Dion at the bar drinking Pepsi, and one of Frankie on stage (I believe that was it). I don't believe any were taken of Big Bopper. One of the photos is in the recent Rolling Stone mag with Springsteen on the cover. At this time, they are NOT available for purchase but probably will be in the future. Another guy took pix that night and they are not the best shots and he was trying to sell a set of 6 5x7's for $300 a set!! Nice try, Jack.....not only that, they are COPIES from the photos, not the negs as he got rid of the negs many years back.
I'll try and find a site online that may have the better ones posted.
In the meantime take a look at some great photos of early r&r with some fantastic pix of Buddy, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, and many more.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/illingw...7603227592634/
Last edited by Gary; 02-18-2009 at 04:11 PM. Reason: add text
This is the best I could find right now:
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_arti...storyid=538377
Renowned Death Hag
Oh my god it was amazing! It was a 3 hour show and everyone on stage was totally brilliant! I had front row tickets and being a huge fan of Buddy's music and rock and roll music, this show was heaven for me! I didn't take my camera and phone camera is crap....which is a shame!
Marc Robinson as Buddy Holly was great! He looked like him a bit, he had a good voice and really played the part well. Jaymz Dening played The Big Bopper who was larger than life! He came on the stage in loud clothes and sung Chantilly Lace with great fun in his voice, he was very funny and made me laugh so much during the show. Mike King played Dion, who kept smiling at me and winking at me! Strange man lol. But this man almost had my jumping onto the stage and ripping off his clothes Tim Harwood played Ritchie Valens! Now I know that Ritchie was 17 when he died but his man was in his late 20's and well well well.....his hips made me drool! He couldnt keep still! It was so sexy! He was great as Ritchie. I fancied him!
They did all their hits and other rock and roll numbers. The show was pure class and worth the cash too! They really enjoyed being on stage and it give me and everyone else the idea of how the last concert for those stars might have been!
I also meet them after the show. I shook hands with Buddy, Big Bopper and hugged Ritchie!
I'd go again and again to see this show and have a wonderful night out!
This was the poster from last night!
Death Hag
Had Buddy lived and got Taupe Records off the ground, I'm sure he would have been a great and successful producer. His ideas and vision in music were astounding for a guy so young.
I wonder what it would have been like if he had ever got to work with the Beatles, maybe whipping the Let It Be album in to shape for instance. I'm sure it would be better than what Spector did with it.
I still feel that the world doesn't fully appreciate what a great talent we lost in Buddy.
I never heard of him doing TAUPE RECORDS but I did know he had business cards made up for PRISM RECORDS. He was planning on doing a gospel album, some spanish recordings and of course producing for others including Ritchie Valens, Waylon Jennings, Lou Giordano and others. Would the Beatles (as we have known them) have existed if Buddy lived? Perhaps.....but I just think things may have been a little different, but if things went along AS THEY DID had Buddy lived, I shudder to think what we missed out on.
Death Hag
Yep, it was originally Prism, but he later changed his mind and was gonna call his set up Taupe, after the colour of his car.
Renowned Death Hag
Okay, has anybody bought the 2 new Buddy Holly CD collections yet? One's called The Memorial Collection and the other's called Rarities. These are THE collections, that the big Buddy fan that I am has been waiting for, for at least 20 years! Some really good stuff in both collections. Some unreleased songs and songs Buddy recorded on his Ampex tape recorder in his appartment, shortly before he died. I haven't had a collection like this, for Buddy, since MCA released the Buddy Holly Collection on records, back in the early 80's.
I'm curious if anybody knows the story behind these collection. Who convinced Buddy's witch of widow to part with the master tapes? Gary, do you know anything about this?
"So many faces in and out of my life. Some will last, some will just be now and then. Life is a series of Hellos and Goodbyes, I'm afraid it's time for Goodbye again. "
I'm pretty sure that all of Buddy's recording slipped into public domain this year which is why there is suddenly s much more stuff available.. as well s because of the interest generated by the 50th anniversary.
You are exactly right. The 50 year mark came and the recordings are now public domain. The only thing Maria did was had some say as to what recordings were actually released. What everybody really wants, though, is a complete BOX SET.
I've heard a few of the tracks recorded in his apartment, and I think they're worthy of a release as is, at least to modern sensibilities. I think they're great as is, anyway, though had he lived to work on them further, I know they'd have been fleshed out.
Last edited by Dane; 02-26-2009 at 05:21 PM.
The Crickets agree with you, Dane. They've been asked many times thru the years why they didn't do the overdubs on the Apt. tapes and they said they're fine just the way they are. That's why Norman Petty got the Fireballs to overdub instead because the Crickets refused to and Norman wanted to put some more product out in the 60s but he knew the undubbed recordings weren't "commercial" enough. Since Buddy was under contract with Coral, they felt the recordings were theirs so they got the Jack Hansen Combo instead, so the public was confused as to what recordings to buy because here you had Buddy with the Fireballs on one recording and Buddy with the Jack Hansen Combo on another. I can't say I prefer either because Buddy with just his guitar was great!
Renowned Death Hag
Oh The Fireballs! Can I say how much I dislike their overdubbed backround vocals on songs like "Peggy Sue Got Married"? Those "Do Do Do's" drive me crazy!
Was MCA's "The Complete Buddy Holly", that came out in 1979, ever released on CD's? I've got it on records and I've seen it on cassettes, but not on CD's. To me this is the definitive Buddy Holly collection. It also has a fabulous booklet of liner notes in it, including the actual NTSB report about the plane crash. If it's not already on CD's, I hope that somebody at MCA( now Universal Music) considers re-releasing this collection soon.
"So many faces in and out of my life. Some will last, some will just be now and then. Life is a series of Hellos and Goodbyes, I'm afraid it's time for Goodbye again. "
As much as I like the Fireballs (on their OWN recordings), I agree with you on this. But it was all Norman Petty's idea, and he was the boss so they followed the leader. Nope, the Complete Buddy Holly never made it to CD. Definitely a shame. That was the ultimate, in my book. You have great taste!
Thanks for the information! I had no idea about any of that, and it's fascinating. Which one of the releases is the one with the apartment recordings? I think I'd prefer that to an overview of the hits.
It seems that to me, when people talk about his musical talent, no one seems to mention his voice. I think he had a great voice, not only did it have a wonderful sound and depth to it, but he could do so much with it. Listen to "Everyday" - the boy could sing.But then, that's my favorite of his songs.
DOWN THE LINE-RARITIES has That's What They Say/What To Do/Peggy Sue Got Married/That Makes It Tough/Crying Waiting Hoping/Learning The Game/Slippin & Slidin (slow and fast)/Wait Till The Sun Shines Nellie/Dearest/Love Is Strange/Smokey Joes Cafe plus other undubbed material thoughout Buddy's career, including a 1949 recording of TWO TIMIN WOMAN before Buddy's voice changed. He was 13 years old.
Gary? You rock.
Aw shucks...thanks Dane! I absolutely love Buddy's version of Love Is Strange. Have you ever seen this homemade video of the dubbed version of DEAREST? As much as I dislike Maria, this is a good video:Gary? You rock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCtBOz-dzfo
Wow, thanks again! I love that song. The direction he seemed to be heading in musically at that time ... it just frustrates me in a way, because as good as the rock and roll was, I think starting with the very first album he never got a chance to release, I would have loved everything he'd done from then on.
His version of Love Is Strange is dead on.
I would LOVE to have that box set on cd. It had some great rare stuff like Waylon Jennings Buddy produced version of Jole Blon and Jerry Allison's version of Real Wild Child. I re-read that booklet so many times.. I want it now!!!
Renowned Death Hag
I am enjoying the DOWN THE LINE-RARITIES collection. It has my favorite Buddy song on it, "Last Night", which before I only had on the MCA collection. On this rarities CD it has "Last Night" as undubbed, which is fabulous! While the other version sounds like a slightly cheesy ballad, the undubbed version sounds like a plaintive plea.
Open up those floodgates! Release more Buddy Holly songs, now that they are in the public domain!
I bet Buddy never thought in his wildest dreams, that 50 years later many people would still be digging his music. He'd only be 72, today. By today's standards, that's not too old. After all, Fats Domino just turned 81, yesterday!
"So many faces in and out of my life. Some will last, some will just be now and then. Life is a series of Hellos and Goodbyes, I'm afraid it's time for Goodbye again. "
LAST NIGHT was written by The Crickets very own Joe B. Mauldin. His previous group (The Four Teens) did it originally but I don't think it was recorded. Buddy heard about the song, liked it, and decided to record it after Joe B. joined the Crickets. The undubbed version is definitely superior to the previously released version.
Thanks Gary for adding the Buddy Holly image links! They are all fantastic photographs! Sorry for the late reply, but I've been making LOTS of flights lately and I have not had much time to browse the board. Thanks again! joS3ph BTW, the Yankees are may favorite team!
That's okay, joS3ph......I forgive you (for being a Crankee fan).
Renowned Death Hag
I live a few blocks away from the Riverside Ballroom in Green Bay WI, where the winter dance party performed the night before they were at the Surf. This is the monument that is outside the building. It was build by the same guy that made the statue that is at the crash site.
BTW sorry for the quality. There is a walking trail right behind my apartment that goes right past the Riverside and i took the pictures with my cellphone while I was out walking.
This is the outside of the building. It is one of the only original ballrooms that is still around. They still hold concerts, and you can have partys and wedding receptions there. How cool would that be?
Great pix, Sassy! I like that memorial better than the one in Clear Lake!
I am a huge Buddy fan and I live in Duluth. I had the opportunity at the time of the 50th anniv. to see the inside of the Duluth Armory, one of the last places Buddy played. After being abandoned and condemned, it was finally decided that it will be renovated into something else (which is yet to be determined). Do you have any information to add, Gary (I see you also live in Duluth)? Anyway, here are some photos (one is from the viewpoint of the stage looking out).
Hi Diana. Thanks for the photos. I haven't been in the Armory in a few years. I was told just a few days beforehand that there was going to be a little something on the 50th Anniversary, but as I stated, I was making my annual trek to Clear Lake.
Anyway, my personal belief is that NOTHING will happen to the Armory. No matter how much money they try to get, there just isn't any real interest in getting something going there. It will just cost too much to renovate. The best thing they can do there is tear it down. Not that I would like to see that but there really is no other option. Each year that passes without anything getting done is just another nail in the coffin.
That is sad, but I understand that the world must forge ahead. Unfortunately those of us whose heads are stuck in other eras feel left behind. Luckily I carped a piece of wood from the stage...
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