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Thread: Buddy Holly

  1. #301
    Gary Guest
    I was just going to recommend those same books, Tish.
    Sorry to hear about your husband, too. Cherish every moment!

  2. #302
    Gary Guest
    If anybody is interested, here is a little photo tour of the Surf Ballroom:
    http://www.surfballroom.com/photo_tour.html

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticia53 View Post
    Thanks Kate, it is a hard thing as my husband is my life, I don't let myself think of what the future holds, too depressing for me.

    I do know however that anyone who really loves their spouse wouldn't treat their memory the way "she" does Buddy's. He certainly did deserve better.

    As for books, "Remembering Buddy? by John Goldrosen & John Beecher is the best. ??The Day The Music Died? by Larry Lehmer is also great. DO NOT get Ellis Amburn??s ??Buddy Holly - The Biography" it is pure fictional trash.

    Will do!

    Thanks for the tips!

    And aren't you glad you got to be with this husband of yours?
    My hubby is significantly older than I, and like you I don't think about the future in great detail.

    One of the great challenges in this life is to live in the moment.
    I am going to keep trying!

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    If anybody is interested, here is a little photo tour of the Surf Ballroom:
    http://www.surfballroom.com/photo_tour.html

    How cool, thanks!

    Can you believe we are coming up on 50 years???

  5. #305
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    If anybody is interested, here is a little photo tour of the Surf Ballroom:
    http://www.surfballroom.com/photo_tour.html

    That place is beautiful. I hope I can make it out there one day.

  6. #306
    Gary Guest
    I've been there many times since 1979 and am still in awe of the place. I wonder if it's haunted? I'm going to have to find out!

  7. #307
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    I've been there many times since 1979 and am still in awe of the place. I wonder if it's haunted? I'm going to have to find out!

    That would make it even better!

  8. #308
    Gary Guest
    Well, I did go thru some of my photos I took at last year's Tribute show, and lo and behold, I found four photos with orbs in them, or at least they LOOK like orbs to me. I will post them very soon so hopefully I can get some other opinions on them.

  9. #309
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Well, I did go thru some of my photos I took at last year's Tribute show, and lo and behold, I found four photos with orbs in them, or at least they LOOK like orbs to me. I will post them very soon so hopefully I can get some other opinions on them.
    Hmmm...maybe Buddy, Ritchie, and the Bopper decided to join in on the fun!

  10. #310
    Gary Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee1001 View Post
    Hmmm...maybe Buddy, Ritchie, and the Bopper decided to join in on the fun!

    Okay, you decide!

    Speedo & The Cadillacs. Just above Speedo (middle) and to the right.



    In back by the Buddy Holly posters...LOADED with orbs.



    Just above Flash Cadillac & The Continental Kids



    Just above the colored lights on the curtain is a HUGE one. Belmonts on stage.

  11. #311
    Bee1001 Guest
    Pretty creepy!



    Can I just say how much I love the suits of Speedo & The Cadillacs? Hot damn!

  12. #312
    Gary Guest
    I swear all those black doo-wop groups now wear those suits.......

  13. #313
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    I swear all those black doo-wop groups now wear those suits.......
    Haha, really? I dig that style.

  14. #314
    nancy07 Guest
    I saw a show on tv not long ago about trying to find the spirit of Buddy Holly and along their travels with a psychic they went to the Surf Ballroom. They didn't find Buddy's spirit but they found another spirit who desperately wanted to get on stage and sing. They were convinced it was Ritchie Valens. Can't remember the name of that show now...

  15. #315
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    Voice of the Shrew

    Sadly a great Buddy Holly site is gone, www.buddyhollyonline.com has closed. If you want to hear the voice of the merry widow shrew MED, you can hear her leaving a phone message to the owner of the site when you go there. I have heard she has a bitter nasty voice, interesting to hear it.
    ~The only difference between a rut and a grave is depth~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~~I should never have switched from Scotch to Martinis.~~ Humphrey Bogart's last words

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by nancy07 View Post
    I saw a show on tv not long ago about trying to find the spirit of Buddy Holly and along their travels with a psychic they went to the Surf Ballroom. They didn't find Buddy's spirit but they found another spirit who desperately wanted to get on stage and sing. They were convinced it was Ritchie Valens. Can't remember the name of that show now...
    Was that the "Dead Famous" show?
    ~The only difference between a rut and a grave is depth~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~~I should never have switched from Scotch to Martinis.~~ Humphrey Bogart's last words

  17. #317
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by morticia53 View Post
    Sadly a great Buddy Holly site is gone, www.buddyhollyonline.com has closed. If you want to hear the voice of the merry widow shrew MED, you can hear her leaving a phone message to the owner of the site when you go there. I have heard she has a bitter nasty voice, interesting to hear it.

    I hate that woman. I went to the link and it says, "The domain name
    buddyhollyonline.com
    has been purchased

    website coming soon"


    No phone message though.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee1001 View Post
    I hate that woman. I went to the link and it says, "The domain name
    buddyhollyonline.com
    has been purchased

    website coming soon"

    No phone message though.
    You can go here and download the mp3 file: www.buddyhollyonline.com/mel.mp3
    ~The only difference between a rut and a grave is depth~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~~I should never have switched from Scotch to Martinis.~~ Humphrey Bogart's last words

  19. #319
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by morticia53 View Post
    You can go here and download the mp3 file: www.buddyhollyonline.com/mel.mp3

    I didn't think it could be possible, but I absolutely hate her more. Buddy has GOT to be turning in his grave right now. If she dies, does that mean Buddy's family can finally take over his name? I hope she doesn't get buried next to Buddy.

  20. #320
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Here is my latest email from Buddy 's niece;
    Dear Judy,

    Just thought I would write and show you some of my latest work on my tile murals. The Tiger picture is the latest. It is called “African Sunset”. I am selling this one for $375.00 + shipping and handling. The red silhouette with the Buddy background is on sell right now for $350.00 + shipping and handling. This one is a limited edition called “Lonesome Tears” #5 of 35. Normally “Lonesome Tears” sells for $450.00 plus shipping and handling. I hope you are doing well. I am sending you 2 different e-mails.

    I am looking forward to going to Clear Lake. I will be singing with John Mueller.



    Take care.



    From Texas,



    Sherry Holley



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  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee1001 View Post
    I didn't think it could be possible, but I absolutely hate her more. Buddy has GOT to be turning in his grave right now. If she dies, does that mean Buddy's family can finally take over his name? I hope she doesn't get buried next to Buddy.
    I agree, from all that is ever said about Buddy, he was a wonderful sweet guy and the $$ wasn't IT for him, it was the music and being remembered. I can't help but believe he would hate what she has done to his name and how she has treated his family & fans. Obviously he knew she was a shrew, he was going to divorce her sorry ass.

    If I understand the legalities correctly, her copyright on Buddy's name ends in Feb 09, 50 years after his death. Her trademark of his name however goes on. I hope this means her cash "well" runs dry then and she has to scrape to pay the taxes on her million dollar townhouse in Dallas!

    I think when her copyright runs out, images, music, photos etc. of Buddy will be public domain and she has no control over their use, nor can she collect $$ from their use. Maybe Gary B can explain all this better, it is all too complicated for me!

    But her daughter has been "groomed" to take over the Buddy business when the witch dies, so unfortunately no, I doubt the Holley family will be able to take over. It is sad, I can only imagine how great Buddy's legacy would be today had the Holley family had control all along. IMO they all got royally screwed by the shrew.
    ~The only difference between a rut and a grave is depth~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~~I should never have switched from Scotch to Martinis.~~ Humphrey Bogart's last words

  22. #322
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    Buddy's Grave

    Quote Originally Posted by Bee1001 View Post
    I hope she doesn't get buried next to Buddy.
    Hell she has never even seen his grave! But she hates Lubbock so much I can't see her being buried there. Plus I think the Holley family owns the grave sites around Buddy and his Mom & Dad are beside him.

    Maybe cremated and flushed would be a more fitting end?lol.
    ~The only difference between a rut and a grave is depth~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~~I should never have switched from Scotch to Martinis.~~ Humphrey Bogart's last words

  23. #323
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by morticia53 View Post
    Hell she has never even seen his grave! But she hates Lubbock so much I can't see her being buried there. Plus I think the Holley family owns the grave sites around Buddy and his Mom & Dad are beside him.

    Maybe cremated and flushed would be a more fitting end?lol.

    Way more fitting! I can't believe her daughter stands to take over after she dies! Did this daughter come from the marriage Maria Elena had a year or so after Buddy's death? This whole thing just makes me sad, Buddy's legacy shouldn't be treated this way.

  24. #324
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    Yes, she remarried about 2 years after Buddy died to a guy named Diaz, I think it was Joe. From that marriage she had 3 or 4 kids then divorced Joe and took back the Holly name when she saw the $$ signs after the movie came out.

    It makes anyone who loved Buddy sad and angry that she cares nothing for his legacy, only the $$$$$ his name represents. And, to know he was going to divorce her only makes it worse that she has profited (leeched) so much off his name. I can't even imagine the heartache and pain she has put his family through all these years. They live very modest while she sits in a million dollar penthouse in Dallas.

    If it is true "what comes around, goes around" I would hate to be in her shoes, even if they are Prada!!
    ~The only difference between a rut and a grave is depth~
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~~I should never have switched from Scotch to Martinis.~~ Humphrey Bogart's last words

  25. #325
    Bee1001 Guest
    That's such a shame. I know Buddy wasn't in it for the money, but I would like to see his family well-taken care of from the money made from his name. With our luck, Maria will live to be 100+. I long for the day I can sing "ding dong, the witch is dead".

  26. #326
    nancy07 Guest
    The crazy thing, right after I posted my message did I see that the episode of Dead Famous I was thinking of was being shown on TV. Kinda eerie.

    You were absolutely correct. The show was Dead Famous.

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia53 View Post
    Was that the "Dead Famous" show?

  27. #327
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    I just read in a book last night (Rock & Roll Babylon), that Buddy had a bit of a gambling problem?

  28. #328
    Gary Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    I just read in a book last night (Rock & Roll Babylon), that Buddy had a bit of a gambling problem?
    I don't think it was much of a problem, really. He did like to play cards and dice games but they all did that to kill time on the bus and hotel rooms. There was even some dice found after the crash but those belonged to Big Bopper. When Bo Diddley was up here performing a few years back, a friend of mine mentioned Buddy's name to Bo and Bo said "Buddy still owes me $50!" ha ha ha

  29. #329
    harlequin_clown Guest
    I have been listening to "True Love Ways" over and over. Goosebumps! *sigh* now that's a REAL ballad

  30. #330
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    on my recent trip to lubbock i took a bunch of pictures. i have buddy's grave, his sister patricia, his sister in law maxine and of course, his parents.

    the big murals are painted on a furniture building facing 19th street on the corner of buddy holly avenue across from the buddy holly center. i was going to crop them and make them pretty, but i figured you guys didn't care about that!

    here are the obits for buddy's sister patricia:
    http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories...37761580.shtml

    and his sister in law maxine: http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories...12604069.shtml





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    "I'm not great at the advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?"



  31. #331
    Gary Guest
    Thanks for posting them, Jess! How far apart are the family members plots? I've been to Buddy's grave back in 1980, just wondering where the proximity is of the others.

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Thanks for posting them, Jess! How far apart are the family members plots? I've been to Buddy's grave back in 1980, just wondering where the proximity is of the others.
    his parents are just to the right of him, some guy i don't know is on the left, and his sisters are just across from him, sort of diagonal.
    "I'm not great at the advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?"



  33. #333
    Tebssis Guest
    Great pics, Jessica!! Only thing missing is you!

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tebssis View Post
    Great pics, Jessica!! Only thing missing is you!
    i posted the picture of me with buddy's grave in the "death hag pics" thread. so if you really wanna see it, you can find it there!
    "I'm not great at the advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?"



  35. #335
    Historia Guest
    Peggy Sue Geron is my cousin. We are not close, but I have lived my whole life hearing all about this. She has had to live with being "the peggy Sue." She would never trash Buddy.

  36. #336
    deathpool Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Historia View Post
    Peggy Sue Geron is my cousin. We are not close, but I have lived my whole life hearing all about this. She has had to live with being "the peggy Sue." She would never trash Buddy.
    Why did he write the song about her?

  37. #337
    harlequin_clown Guest
    Yeah tell us! I'd love to know!!

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathpool View Post
    Why did he write the song about her?
    it originally was written for "cindy lou" his niece, but was renamed "peggy sue" because jerry (crickets band member) was dating peggy at the time.

    you can read more about it here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Sue
    "I'm not great at the advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?"



  39. #339
    deathpool Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by xoxojessicaxoxo View Post
    it originally was written for "cindy lou" his niece, but was renamed "peggy sue" because jerry (crickets band member) was dating peggy at the time.

    you can read more about it here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Sue
    thanks for that, Id love to go and see his grave some day.

  40. #340
    Tebssis Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by xoxojessicaxoxo View Post
    i posted the picture of me with buddy's grave in the "death hag pics" thread. so if you really wanna see it, you can find it there!
    Will do!

  41. #341
    Vintage_Vixen Guest
    I just posted on the Ritchie Valens thread - & thought I'd put this info here as well: I read in one of the books about Buddy & as Gary already posted, MEH lied about being pregnant. Also, before he died, Buddy had seen a lawyer to inquire about divorcing MEH. The pregnancy & miscarriage was a sympathy ploy. I do agree with you, Gary that even if there were tons of press at the '09 surf ballroom event, MEH wouldn't go because she knows what the fans really think of her. Could possibly be an UGLY scene for her!!
    Last edited by Vintage_Vixen; 01-03-2009 at 09:07 AM. Reason: sentance structure fixed

  42. #342
    jz63 Guest
    There is a really cool article about Buddy in today's Independent
    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...y-1501271.html

    The bit about his mother sending the letters is very moving.

  43. #343
    Shano Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by morticia53 View Post
    Sadly a great Buddy Holly site is gone, www.buddyhollyonline.com has closed. If you want to hear the voice of the merry widow shrew MED, you can hear her leaving a phone message to the owner of the site when you go there. I have heard she has a bitter nasty voice, interesting to hear it.


    So I clicked on your link to hear the shrew but instead I found the coolest website about Buddy Holly and the Crickets!!! Check out the pictures from the winter dance party.... amazing!!!

  44. #344
    Gary Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Shano View Post
    So I clicked on your link to hear the shrew but instead I found the coolest website about Buddy Holly and the Crickets!!! Check out the pictures from the winter dance party.... amazing!!!
    The original Buddy Holly Online site was originally run by a friend of mine (Shawn) and was forced to shut down. That site is now up and running and run by Maria and her henchmen. Best part is, ALL the information on that site was the exact same info (pictures and all) that were put up and researched and put together with hard work by Shawn. They put absolutely NO effort to update the site (except the opening video). So in all actuality, they stole all of Shawn's work.

  45. #345
    jz63 Guest
    They left the rather anti-Maria Elana stuff in the FAQ section! excellent!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    The original Buddy Holly Online site was originally run by a friend of mine (Shawn) and was forced to shut down. That site is now up and running and run by Maria and her henchmen. Best part is, ALL the information on that site was the exact same info (pictures and all) that were put up and researched and put together with hard work by Shawn. They put absolutely NO effort to update the site (except the opening video). So in all actuality, they stole all of Shawn's work.

  46. #346
    Shano Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    The original Buddy Holly Online site was originally run by a friend of mine (Shawn) and was forced to shut down. That site is now up and running and run by Maria and her henchmen. Best part is, ALL the information on that site was the exact same info (pictures and all) that were put up and researched and put together with hard work by Shawn. They put absolutely NO effort to update the site (except the opening video). So in all actuality, they stole all of Shawn's work.

    Well, I have to say your friend Shawn does fantastic work!! I have spent hours on the site so far.

    But I am so so sad. You know, when you hear a romantic tragic story like true love lost because the Rock and Roll guy the girl was married/engaged/dated died in a horrible plane crash and then the girl ends up pregnant and then she loses the baby, but there was one last phone call, of love never dying... *sigh* Damn Buddy Holly story, and damn Gary Busy...
    Now I am left wondering how true any of La Bamba was!

  47. #347
    Bee1001 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by harlequin_clown View Post
    I have been listening to "True Love Ways" over and over. Goosebumps! *sigh* now that's a REAL ballad
    That song is one of my favorites. When I get married someday, that is the song I plan to do my first dance to with my husband.

    Quote Originally Posted by xoxojessicaxoxo View Post
    on my recent trip to lubbock i took a bunch of pictures. i have buddy's grave, his sister patricia, his sister in law maxine and of course, his parents.

    the big murals are painted on a furniture building facing 19th street on the corner of buddy holly avenue across from the buddy holly center. i was going to crop them and make them pretty, but i figured you guys didn't care about that!

    here are the obits for buddy's sister patricia: http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories...37761580.shtml
    and his sister in law maxine: http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories...12604069.shtml






    Awesome! Thank you! I'd love to visit Lubbock someday.

  48. #348
    madmravyn Guest
    I'd like to be the one to beg to differ about the common opinion of Maria Elena. She's not such an evil wretch as you'd like to think. She is a kind woman who has been involved in charity fund raising events, for example.

    One thing to consider about Lubbock is that for almost 20 years after Buddy passed, they didn't give a crap about him. People there weren't very kind to her when he took her there because to them she was a "Mexican" and treated her thusly. Lubbock is a small conservative town out the middle of nowhere, at least by my standards. He made the "devil's music" as it was considered back in the day. It wasn't until the tornado in 1970 that hit Lubbock that they realized that they had a major tourist cash cow in their previously snubbed native son. Maria Elena is right to have an iron fist over how Lubbock uses Buddy, simply because of that. They shouldn't be able to profit without restriction. Sometimes a woman has to be a bitch, plain and simple. My husband is going through cancer treatment and believe me, I've had to be a bitch to get people to do what they are supposed to do to keep him getting his disability pay, proper care, etc.

    Look up the Dixie Chick's song, Lubbock or Leave It, by Natalie Maines. She was raised in Lubbock. You can find it on YouTube and lyrics on google. Seems to lend credence to this.

    After thinking about this further, judging her for not going to his grave or going to the funeral is cruel. People handle grief differently. A friend of mine's dad loved his parents but he's never been to the graves. Another friend of mine became a widow and she couldn't go to the funeral...the grief was crushing for her. Still can't bring herself to go out to the grave site because I can imagine it would become too solid and too real for her. To these people, it's not that they don't care, maybe it's that they just handle it differently. Facing the prospect of possibly losing my husband (cancer, heart problems, diabetes) because of the many things going wrong with him...I can tell you I've had nightmares about him being put in the box and putting him in the ground. I don't know if I could face it, myself.

    And hey, they said, she said, he said, man I've heard differing stories by people involved, people who are experts, you name it. Unless we were a fly on the wall, nothing is truly certain. The docent of the museum where the Big Bopper's casket is doubted the story Tommy Allsup's been telling about the coin flip over the plane seat between him and Ritchie Valens for whatever reason. Who really knows. ***Shrug***
    Last edited by madmravyn; 01-24-2009 at 06:46 AM.

  49. #349
    Shano Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by madmravyn View Post
    I'd like to be the one to beg to differ about the common opinion of Maria Elena. She's not such an evil wretch as you'd like to think. She is a kind woman who has been involved in charity fund raising events, for example.

    One thing to consider about Lubbock is that for almost 20 years after Buddy passed, they didn't give a crap about him. People there weren't very kind to her when he took her there because to them she was a "Mexican" and treated her thusly. Lubbock is a small conservative town out the middle of nowhere, at least by my standards. He made the "devil's music" as it was considered back in the day. It wasn't until the tornado in 1970 that hit Lubbock that they realized that they had a major tourist cash cow in their previously snubbed native son. Maria Elena is right to have an iron fist over how Lubbock uses Buddy, simply because of that. They shouldn't be able to profit without restriction. Sometimes a woman has to be a bitch, plain and simple. My husband is going through cancer treatment and believe me, I've had to be a bitch to get people to do what they are supposed to do to keep him getting his disability pay, proper care, etc.

    Look up the Dixie Chick's song, Lubbock or Leave It, by Natalie Maines. She was raised in Lubbock. You can find it on YouTube and lyrics on google. Seems to lend credence to this.

    After thinking about this further, judging her for not going to his grave or going to the funeral is cruel. People handle grief differently. A friend of mine's dad loved his parents but he's never been to the graves. Another friend of mine became a widow and she couldn't go to the funeral...the grief was crushing for her. Still can't bring herself to go out to the grave site because I can imagine it would become too solid and too real for her. To these people, it's not that they don't care, maybe it's that they just handle it differently. Facing the prospect of possibly losing my husband (cancer, heart problems, diabetes) because of the many things going wrong with him...I can tell you I've had nightmares about him being put in the box and putting him in the ground. I don't know if I could face it, myself.

    And hey, they said, she said, he said, man I've heard differing stories by people involved, people who are experts, you name it. Unless we were a fly on the wall, nothing is truly certain. The docent of the museum where the Big Bopper's casket is doubted the story Tommy Allsup's been telling about the coin flip over the plane seat between him and Ritchie Valens for whatever reason. Who really knows. ***Shrug***

    Good post! Well said! I am not sure who to believe in all of the Holly tragedy. Think about it. How great was it that Buddy married a "Mexican" in the 50's. Especially bringing her home to a small conservative town... wow. And I am sure quite a few on the Winter Dance Party didn't like her either. I mean lets be honest it was the times. Plus it seems all legendary Rock N Roll stories have to have a Yoko in them. Think John Lennon and the Beatles, Elvis and 'Cilla, Kurt and Courtney. Buddy and Maria.....

    Combine that with the fact that it was 50 years ago. Most people can barley remember what happened 10 or 15 years ago during a traumatic time in their lives. But all of the people involved remember point by point of all that happened... I don't know, that seems... not very realistic.

    Waylan Jennings says that Buddy never spoke about Maria being pregnant. So now everyone believes that she lied... I don't know, really, believing one or two people and their somewhat shaky memories is not enough for me to hate someone. BUT if she did lie about being pregnant then the flip side is that you are holding someone to a immature lie from 50 years ago. Now that is some grudge!

    I think that I take issue with Peggy Sue more. The song wasn't even supposed to be about her. It was Cindy Lu. Buddy changed it for his band member so he could get some... lol.... But here she is years later painted on the side of walls, writing books, having her own website. Seems a little money orientated to me. Not that I wouldn't be all about it if a very famous song was written about me... but how can you blame one and not the other about wanting some payback.

    Now before you go blastin me! I am not saying that I totally believe that Maria is guilt free. I am not saying she is the second coming. I don't know the woman. Have never met her. I am just saying that believing all of what you hear and read about someones relationship 50 years ago... I don't know if that is wise. It does however make for good reading and gossip!

  50. #350
    madmravyn Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Shano View Post

    Now before you go blastin me! I am not saying that I totally believe that Maria is guilt free. I am not saying she is the second coming. I don't know the woman. Have never met her. I am just saying that believing all of what you hear and read about someones relationship 50 years ago... I don't know if that is wise. It does however make for good reading and gossip!
    Exactly. No one is a saint here. Nothing when it comes to something so long ago is certain as people are human and have their motives and reasoning and recollections.

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