Originally Posted by poppie
That's kinda funny. A national emergency and they sent the military home. Oh well, democrats; you know? LOL!
That's kinda funny. A national emergency and they sent the military home. Oh well, democrats; you know? LOL!
Renowned Death Hag
LBJ addresses a sombre Congress on Nov 27/63, two days after the JFK funeral.
http://americanrhetoric.com/speeches/lbjletuscontinue.html
The limo driver did not do the shooting or anybody inside the vehicle for that matter. What people are seeing and I have the DVD that I bought from the TBD that shows it a lot better than what you see on Youtube but what people are seeing is the passenger guys HAIR refelection that looks like a gun. Watch it again slowly and watch the guys hair riding in shotgun execept without the gun of course.
Death Hag Extraordinaire
So I bought a vintage Fendi scarf on E-Bay this weekend, and the item description said that it came from the estate of Durie Appleton of Palm Beach, FL, who died recently at 91. Then it said she was rumored to have been the girlfriend of JFK before his marriage to Jackie. (Whether she was or not, I looked at the other items the auction had and Ms. Appleton had exquisite taste.) So I looked up Durie Appleton on Yahoo and found her obituary:
http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/content/community/durieobit0324.html
and this, also from the Palm Beach Daily News:
"Durie Malcolm Bersbach Desloge Shevlin Appleton spent a lifetime denying she was ever married to John F. Kennedy, a story that outlives Mrs. Appleton, who passed away March 17. (Link: Durie M. Appleton, Linked To JFK, Dies)
Legions of sleuths have tried over the years to find proof of a late-1940s marriage. Seymour Hersh reported in his 1997 book The Dark Side of Camelot that Kennedy friend Charles Spalding said he destroyed all evidence. Both sides always denied the marriage had taken place.
So where??d the story come from?
Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. with sons Joe Jr. and Jack, Palm Beach, 1931.
A Sept. 28, 1962 Time magazine article (Link: An American Genealogy), credits it to the 1957 book The Blauvelt Family Genealogy, which the magazine hilariously nominated for ??any alltime worstseller list.? (The family??s Web site is www.Blauvelt.org) It contained the following:
??(12,427) DURIE (Kerr) MALCOM (sic) (Isabel O. Cooper, 11,304). We have no birth date. She was born Kerr, but took the name of her stepfather. She first married Firmin Desloge, IV. They were divorced. Durie then married F. John Bersbach. They were divorced and she married, third, John F. Kennedy, son of Joseph P. Kennedy, one time Ambassador to England. There were no children of the second or third marriages.?
Time said the author, Louis L. Blauvelt, spent 35 years compiling the book??s 25,000 bios but acknowledged there might be errors in his 1,100 pages. The article pointed out that Blauvelt misspelled Malcolm, ??Malcom,? transposed marriages 1 and 2, and omitted her almost decade-old marriage to Thomas Shevlin.
This one paragraph bombshell found its way into the hands of anti-Kennedy factions, who mass-mailed it around the country. The news then reached the ears of major media organizations, or as Time put it, ??it had gone far beyond crackpots.?
Durie Shevlin told Time in 1962: ??It??s absolutely false and ridiculous. I??m not even sure how the story began. I??ve been married to Mr. Shevlin for 15 or 16 years, and previously I was married for a short time to John Bersbach and them to Firmin Desloge, by whom I had a daughter who??s 20 now. I know the president??s family well and have known him for a long time, and saw him years ago at Palm Beach and once went with him and his family to an Orange Bowl game in Miami. I??ve rarely seen him since.?
That was her story, and she stuck with it. She was 91.
The Smoking Gun has some interesting documents on l??affaire Blauvelt, including a memorandum from FBI director J. Edgar Hoover."
I thought it was a sufficiently intriguing story that I would share it with my hags. If only that scarf could talk!
The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.
- R.H. Sin
What a cool story!
Can I ask how much you paid for the scarf and can you post a picture?
I love vintage!
thats so cool!!
Death Hag Extraordinaire
With shipping it ended up being $30. I paid $20 for it. At first I was concerned that it wasn't real Fendi because the logo was slightly different. After some research I found out that Fendi did not start using the 'FF' 'zucca' logo until Karl Lagerfeld created it in the 1960's. I cannot find a pre Lagerfeld logo yet, but I am still searching. However, I have no reason to believe it's a replica because everything is exactly as the seller described, down to the faint perfume smell it has. (They had a very high rating, too.) The vintage Fendi bag I bought is from the Lagerfeld 1960's, as it has the distinctive double 'F' logo. There's a picture of it on the 'most recent purchases' thread. I ended up giving $35 total for it. Score.
The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.
- R.H. Sin
Girl that thing is gonna give you or whomever sees it a headache LOL what a busy pattern!
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Yeah, in that picture it looks like it's freaking moving!
The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.
- R.H. Sin
When I was a kid, my Mom worked at a medical clinic in the more "tony" area of Toronto.
She made the acquaintance of, and then befriended an elderly woman by the name of Angel Colvin. Angel was a character- she was on the stage in the early years of silent films- I got to look through her trunk one day, and she had pictures of herself with Tyrone Powers and Douglas Fairbanks among others. She had all her headshots and things. Quite fascinating.
Anyway, she was apparently old friends of the Kennedys...even said if we were ever in Martha's Vineyard she would send us with a letter of introduction etc. As if- we camped a lot in those days cause we were poor.Could just see the rag tag group of us showing up at the Kennedy compound, smelling of burnt wieners and campfire smoke.
I remember her telling us she was at Jack's first wedding. She swore that she was a guest at the wedding, and not to believe what they told us, he was certainly married before Jackie..and they had spent a great deal of money getting out of that marriage for a more politically beneficial one.
She told us the name of the girl he married, but that was a long time ago, and I cannot remember the name of the woman he supposedly married.
She must have been in her 90's then- and this was probably in the late 60's early 70's..after the assassination at any rate. Angel died some months after telling us her stories..
Do I believe it? Maybe- the other information, with pictures certainly were true. I can't remember if she showed us any pics with the Kennedys.
I don't know- that was the first I'd heard of the JFK was married twice story. She also told us he had a mistress while he was in the white house as well..which also was true.
Take it with a grain of salt, believe it or leave it...
JTIS.
Okay- here's the second of my Kennedy stories.
My family and I were on vacation (from Canada) in Buffalo NY.
We had gone to a fire station, I don't know why, and were talking to the firefighters. My brother in law- Fred -looked a lot like Bobby Kennedy at the time. He and the firemen were just chitchattin' about vacations and where to go....when one of them leans over and says to Fred - well, don't go to Dallas - they'll mistake you for Kennedy and kill ya!
I heard it with my own ears.
That was late August 1963. And we all know what happened 3 months later....
chilling, ain't it?
I don't know what the reason was that the fireman said that, I expect there was some kind of dissension in Texas with Kennedy's presidency, but I was never able to find out for sure. Can any of you Texas hags enlighten me?
Ha it does! Congrats though on your finds!Yeah, in that picture it looks like it's freaking moving!
These stories are wonderful. I never heard about the first marriage either. Hmmm...something to think about!
Death Hag Extraordinaire
That is an awesome story! It's a mystery! The Kennedys were such staunch Catholics, I'm sure if JFK was married before Jackie it would have been very hush hush.When I was a kid, my Mom worked at a medical clinic in the more "tony" area of Toronto.
She made the acquaintance of, and then befriended an elderly woman by the name of Angel Colvin. Angel was a character- she was on the stage in the early years of silent films- I got to look through her trunk one day, and she had pictures of herself with Tyrone Powers and Douglas Fairbanks among others. She had all her headshots and things. Quite fascinating.
Anyway, she was apparently old friends of the Kennedys...even said if we were ever in Martha's Vineyard she would send us with a letter of introduction etc. As if- we camped a lot in those days cause we were poor.
I remember her telling us she was at Jack's first wedding. She swore that she was a guest at the wedding, and not to believe what they told us, he was certainly married before Jackie..and they had spent a great deal of money getting out of that marriage for a more politically beneficial one.
She told us the name of the girl he married, but that was a long time ago, and I cannot remember the name of the woman he supposedly married.
She must have been in her 90's then- and this was probably in the late 60's early 70's..after the assassination at any rate. Angel died some months after telling us her stories..
Do I believe it? Maybe- the other information, with pictures certainly were true. I can't remember if she showed us any pics with the Kennedys.
I don't know- that was the first I'd heard of the JFK was married twice story. She also told us he had a mistress while he was in the white house as well..which also was true.
Take it with a grain of salt, believe it or leave it...
JTIS.
The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.
- R.H. Sin
Could always have it DNA tested... Cant they like, put it under a black-light or something?
I'm related to the Blauvelts on my mom's side! Maybe she's a cousin of mine!
Death Hag Extraordinaire
This keeps getting cooler!
The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.
- R.H. Sin
Well there's a YouTube vid showing that the Time-Life release of the Zapruder film had been altered in major way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0cBxPhLVOg . The most obvious visual of tampering is all the passengers lunging forward in unison twice, as if the limo has stopped. But viewing the film we don't see the limo stop.
Don't believe that hypothesis? Check out these witnesses who saw the limo stop plus Warren Commission defender and conspiracy basher Gerald Posner who inadvertently admits the Zapruder film has been altered: http://itwasjohnson.impiousdigest.com/59wit.html
Last edited by Bidmor; 07-11-2008 at 01:55 PM.
did I hear there were dead JFK phots floating around???
Administrator
There's a thread about JFK here http://www.findadeath.com/forum/show...sasination+JFK
Plus, this is the wrong category, hun.
I was 8 when Jfk was killed, and will never forget it. I grew up some over that weekend, I can say. I've read everything I could about it, all the conspiricy theories, etc. The House Assinations Committee found there were shots fired from the knoll, therefore a conspiracy. Oswald? I'm not sure, but I suspect he was as he claimed "just a patsy." The Secret Service guys weren't drunk, but hung over. They spent much of Thursday night at a club called the Cellar, drinking Everclear- pure alcohol. Some were there until 3 a.m. Their reaction time would be slowed, and can be seen in many still photos taken when the first shots were fired. They stood there looking around, like, duh, what was that? I read an interesting theory that was written by a firearms expert that believes Kennedy was struck with a fragmenting bullet, such as the Secret Service use. Photos show agent George Hinkey brandishing an AK-47 after JFK was shot. Could he have been hit accidently by the agent? I also remember Jackie Kennedy, at one point, told the SS, "If anything happens to me or my kids, I won't let you off as easy as the first time." I wonder if she was referring to Dallas. I doubt LBJ had anything to do with the assination, but I would bet he knew who was, and they kept him in line quite well. Kennedy was going to pull troops out of Vietnam, LBJ escalated the war during his term in office. I feel the whole plot started with the CIA, whom JFK threatened to "splinter into a million pieces." Instead, they got him first. JMO. And, the Lincoln? It was refurbished and used by Richard Nixon during his term. No idea where it is now....
Last edited by Pamebabby; 11-08-2008 at 08:53 AM.
Brief eulogies were delivered inside the rotunda by Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield of Montana, Chief Justice Earl Warren, and Speaker McCormack, representing their respective branches of government.
I was 14 years old when this happen. I don't think anyone is ever going to get a complete truthful account of what happen that day nearly 45 years ago. Thousands of people were there, so you get over a thousand eyewitness discriptions. What one person says they witnessed another see's it differently?? Watching the film one would SWEAR that the fatal bullet came from the front because JFK's head was pushed backwards. Later they said something about nerves causing that reaction. It will always look like it came from the Grassy Knoll to me, but then I'm no scientist.
Last edited by Nicki; 11-08-2008 at 11:16 AM.
I have always thought LBJ knew about or had something to do with the killing of JFK..the wink says it all for me also..my god.. friend or not..this was a horrible occasion to become President..JFK had just been brutally murdered his grieving widow was standing right next to him in shock covered in blood and brain matter..not exactly an occasion for celebration.
According to some books, LBJ "used" Jackie until she finally put a stop to it. He wanted her at his side for ceremonies, etc. Jackie even complained to John's sisters "Lyndon wants me to put on my widow-weeds again." Eventually she ceased having contact with him. He was a character himself. I appreciate this thread, thanks to all who responded....I'm not the only Kennedy nut, I see! Also, a mistake on my earlier post-I was 9 when Kennedy was killed, and watched Oswald being shot live, as it happened. My mom, dad and sister were in the kitchen talking, and I about ran through the wall, and was yelling "they shot him!!" My mom and dad thought I was nuts until they saw the replay. Tragic events, for sure. Very definately a big impact on my way of thinking about fellow humans. Maybe I said I was 8 to appear younger?
Senior Death Hag
A great book about Bobby's reaction to the assasination is Brothers by David Talbot. He researched Bobby's own private investigation into JFK's death, an investigation that began on Nov. 22. He suspected it was planned by members of the CIA, Mafia and Cuban exile community and possibly the FBI.
People who were with Bobby that day said he began speculating instantly upon hearing the news. His first calls were to Kenny O'Donnell and SS agent Clint Hill who were both in the car behind JFK's, then later to the CIA. He told those who gathered with him that day that "there's so much bitterness I thought they would get one of us, but Jack, after all he'd been through never worried about it."
Another person he spoke to that day was Harry Ruiz Williams, a veteran of the Bay of Pigs who was part of the Cuban exile community in Florida. RFK told him "one of your guys did it" - meaning one of the guys in Kennedy's own anti-Castro operation.
Bobby even secretly sent an emissary to Russia to tell them what he suspected. The Kremlin thought it was planned by hard line national security people in the federal government who didn't like JFK's diplomacy efforts to reach detente with the USSR. He didn't think LBJ was involved. Through his messenger, he told the Soviets he would run for pubic office again, eventually for President, when he would again pursue detente with them.
According to the people interviewed in the book, Bobby and Jackie both thought JFK's assasination was planned by people in US govt, Mafia and the US Cuban community. Bobby did his own investigation, but he and Jackie allowed the Warren Commission to conduct their cover-up to protect themselves and their family.
Its a great book. Makes you realize how some of the same elements are still controlling our government behind the scenes. I don't envy Obama trying to walk into that mess today. JFK had no real control over the FBI, CIA and some areas of the Pentagon. Obama is going to face the same challenge, which really makes me worry for his safety.
Would I not hope for the future of America and humankind ...deeper honesty and accountability?
Thanks for your post Demgirl ...who steps up and acknowledges what truly happened?
Sounds like a terrif book, my mom has a copy ...I think I need to read this one
Senior Death Hag
My heart ached reading that book. We always knew he grieved a very long time after JFK died, but I never realized how much he knew, how much he blamed himself. How difficult it must have been to go on living in the same world with the people responsible for his brother's death. Makes you realize, too, why Teddy was so terrified for so long after that.Would I not hope for the future of America and humankind ...deeper honesty and accountability?
Thanks for your post Demgirl ...who steps up and acknowledges what truly happened?
Sounds like a terrif book, my mom has a copy ...I think I need to read this one
100 years before any of the good stuff can be released ....hiding something for sure.
Cleaning the Lincoln and replacing the windscreen before it can be examined. WHY?
Oswald was a nut yes but I think maybe he was placed into position or just happened to choose the wrong day to try an assignation and became a scapegoat.
The SS is hiding lots but I guess the message is clear " Piss off enough people and eventually you will end up dead".
One thing thats always bugged me is why the hell couldn't someone have found Jackie some clothes to change into instead of leaving her clothed in that suit, blood and guts is not a fashion statement.
Jackie Kennedy was repeatedly asked to change out of her bloody clothes during the trip back to D.C. She refused all offers, saying "No, I want them to see what they have done." She did wipe her face off, which had blood and hair on it, before the pictures taken of LBJ being sworn in. They wanted her to change her clothes before the pics, and since she refused, they shot the pictures in a way her skirt didn't show as much "gore." She finally did bathe and change after she and JFK's body were back at the White House, about 4 a.m.
I often wondered if they would have shot JackieO instead of Jack how different history would be. Someone really had it out for this family - not sure why. Poor Bobby. sigh. Whoever shot Jack had to know how to shoot well and have a decent gun since Jackie and the driver were in close proximity. They got their target, for sure.
Senior Death Hag
Correct, she stayed in those clothes deliberately. Her remark was discussed that night on the news.
I also recall, conspiracies aside, that it wasn't LBJ who demanded the autopsy be done in DC, but RFK and JFK's advisors. He was adamant none of the evidence be tainted or lost. LBJ was in panic mode that day. I don't think he or "most of SS" knew who was behind it and thought LBJ was the next target. The safest place for the president and veep in those days was the WH - where security is strongest. RFK, LBJ and SS wanted everyone (including JFK) on the plane and back to DC ASAP - standard procedure. News stories at the time told of LBJ freaking out on the plane, thinking they were sitting ducks on the airport tarmac, demanding the windows be covered. He did insist on being sworn in on Texas soil, but was said to be a bowl of quivering jello that day.
I don't think LBJ was behind it, RFK didn't think so either. No sane person would put themselves.their wife and close friends in a presidential motorcade that they knew would be ambushed. There was no love lost between him and JFK, but when it came to the Bay of Pigs, Mafia relations and JFK's Castro/Cuban/Russian strategies, LBJ was NOT in the loop, not privy to most of the inside intel. Note: Clint Hill, Dave Powers and Kenny O'Donnell, all riding in the car behind JFK's that day referred to it as "riding into an ambush". They may have clammed up later, but their initial reaction indicated more than one shooter.
Gotta agree, Demgirl! I never really thought LBJ was behind anything-he may have known who was, but wasn't gonna speak up and risk a bullet himself. He just did what JFK wasn't going to do, escalate the Vietnam war. Most people didn't think much of LBJ's term in office, he was a disappointment after young, handsome JFK. His wife Lady Bird told Jackie "Lyndon didn't even want to be vice-president, and now this." On another note, I have always been amazed Jackie wasn't hit. It looked like it was close, a couple inches down and there would have been 2 dead in that limo.
This thread is very interesting..
i may have skipped it or overlooked it but where is the video of the actual shooting?
never mind, i found it...
Last edited by cynnbox; 11-10-2008 at 02:32 PM.
Jackie Kennedy was an amazing woman. I can't imagine having to live through such an ordeal and then to be so strong in refusing to change and saying "No, I want them to see what they have done".
The one thing that has always bothered me was the lack of respect for the presidents body. Does anyone else remember seeing the clip where someone is carrying JFK over their shoulder and the bodybag is unzipped? To me that was upsetting to see such disrespect and lack of compassion for our President and it was on National television!
Renowned Death Hag
I never saw that.
Would like to; though.
A faulty hypothesis forming:
A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.
Renowned Death Hag
JFK.
Yeah.....I was thinking about that.....I was a wee lass of 11 months
Renowned Death Hag
yep, amazing it has been that long
I wonder if we will ever know the whole story?
Very much doubt it after all these years.
What, who's files had to be kept secret for 100 years?
That's BS!!
I saw an article that says that L.B.J. did it. It can't be proved, but he was a power hungry oilman.
FAD Founder
I still think we should be able to sue and get Jackie's diaries out. Supposedly they are sealed for 50 years after her last kid kicks it.
BTW Mae West died today, 28 years ago too.
All the national archives records concerning the dallas police and the FBI are court sealed until the year 2050 I believe. Therefore nobody who was alive at the time of the murder will be still living. At least thats the idea. I think its a national crime to hold this from the public. I guess they are hoping that all the conspiracy buffs wont care anymore. But there still to this day a demand to know who actually fired the fatal shot that blew kennedys skull apart. I dont think oswald did it.
But the world may never know
Renowned Death Hag
the day always seems to just sneak up on me...
Sorry. JFK was way overrated.
Renowned Death Hag
he may be in terms of effectiveness but not in term of impact. but the purpose of my thread was just to mention how quick this day comes upon you and the 'wow, already again' it hits you with. the killing of any president in your lifetime has to be that kind of moment.
I'm only 30. I've never experienced a killing of a president.
I hope you never do!
I still remember where I was when I heard it.It was a big terrifying moment for 7 year old...
damm, hate when they merge these things ....
We almost lost reagan in 1981.
and yes, for what kennedy did, hes way over rated but he only served 2 and a half years. He didnt have time to do much. Other then being ballsy and calling the russians bluff during the bay of pigs that he got us into in cuba he was more or less a ineffective president. Johnson was 10 times worse.
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