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Thread: George W. Bush

  1. #601
    melmoney Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    Oops; sorry, I posted on top of you guys.

    Mel, you keep saying hindsight is 20/20. Can you not even give Obama the benefit of the doubt? Hindsight is 20/20 is a tad ridiculous when I think about Katrina and the War. He screwed up; oh well, hindsight.
    Of course I would give him benefit of the doubt. But the difference is we are talking about national security vs. financial spending. Spending money is easier to predict than another country's potential threat. If Obama was getting intelligence information saying that the best decision is to spend trillions of dollars for the welfare of our country, than that would be one thing. However, the Stimulus Bill already has large financial risks for us all. There was been more opposition to this than the Iraq War was in the beginning. For reminders, the Iraq War was passed by 70% of Congress, while the Stimulus only about 56%. The CBO is already predicting a bleak financial forecast that would only be further ruined by the trillions of dollars we are already spending.

  2. #602
    pvezz Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by melmoney View Post
    Of course I would give him benefit of the doubt. But the difference is we are talking about national security vs. financial spending. Spending money is easier to predict than another country's potential threat. If Obama was getting intelligence information saying that the best decision is to spend trillions of dollars for the welfare of our country, than that would be one thing. However, the Stimulus Bill already has large financial risks for us all. There was been more opposition to this than the Iraq War was in the beginning. For reminders, the Iraq War was passed by 70% of Congress, while the Stimulus only about 56%. The CBO is already predicting a bleak financial forecast that would only be further ruined by the trillions of dollars we are already spending.
    Do you think, in the end, that Saddam Hussein was a threat to our national security? I personally don't. Al Qaeda is a threat to our national security, and they are still thriving even after the billions of dollars we have spent.

  3. #603
    melmoney Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    Do you think, in the end, that Saddam Hussein was a threat to our national security? I personally don't. Al Qaeda is a threat to our national security, and they are still thriving even after the billions of dollars we have spent.
    It is hard to say what Saddam was capable of. You know, I wish we would have taken out Osama bin Laden before 9/11, but we didn't. Perhaps, if Saddam had been alive today, we would feel the same about him as we do bin Laden.

  4. #604
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by melmoney View Post
    I agree. But I think he was talking about the likelihood that the weapons were moved after decision to go to War. Again, hindsight is 20/20.

    Sorry, I misunderstood.

  5. #605
    endsleigh03 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidMolly View Post
    If all of that is true, riddle me this Batman.....why didn`t they come out and say that when this country was screaming for answers.....odd I`d say

    Thank you for putting that Batman theme song in my head, where it will no doubt swirl for hours.

  6. #606
    Impatience Guest
    i'm going to say what others have said before:

    if we can find sadam in a hole in the desert, we can surely find a 6 foot arab man pulling a dialysis (sp?) machine behind him. surely.

  7. #607
    Impatience Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    Do you think, in the end, that Saddam Hussein was a threat to our national security? I personally don't. Al Qaeda is a threat to our national security, and they are still thriving even after the billions of dollars we have spent.
    not in the perspective that most of the people who were responsible for 9/11 were from saudi arabia. north korea's leader is much, much scarier than s.h. ever was in terms of our national security.

    i posted in the bo thread that my father served in desert storm and with the 7th calv in the second round of iraq. he said that the concensus was that they were there more for payback (some texan wrong being righted) than wmd. even then.

  8. #608
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    Do you think, in the end, that Saddam Hussein was a threat to our national security? I personally don't. Al Qaeda is a threat to our national security, and they are still thriving even after the billions of dollars we have spent.
    This is the problem I have. I don`t care if we spend billions of dollars taking out these insidious fractions, but I want it done where it does the most good. Afgahnistan should have been our main priority, not Iraq. Take care of what we do know for sure, and then look into Iraq. It smacks of deceit in the highest form. I believe they knew there were no WMD`s in Iraq, and I believe they knew before the first shot was fired. And I am more than outraged about it, I am deeply saddened. When every soldier, joins, they know they may called up to defend their country, with perhaps the ultimate sacrifice. And I know many supported GWB, but just as many have been disillusioned. Perhaps that is the way of all wars. All I know, is I think it reeks that this young men and women, not to mention the American civilians, have lost their lives, based on no more than a man trying to please his father, and one big stinking lie.

  9. #609
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Impatience View Post
    not in the perspective that most of the people who were responsible for 9/11 were from saudi arabia. north korea's leader is much, much scarier than s.h. ever was in terms of our national security.

    i posted in the bo thread that my father served in desert storm and with the 7th calv in the second round of iraq. he said that the concensus was that they were there more for payback (some texan wrong being righted) than wmd. even then.

    Korea, Iran, Syria.....much scarier....and if we think we`re gonna bust in there and start firing, we`d better think again

  10. #610
    melmoney Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Impatience View Post
    i'm going to say what others have said before:

    if we can find sadam in a hole in the desert, we can surely find a 6 foot arab man pulling a dialysis (sp?) machine behind him. surely.
    Some think he's been dead for years since the last known verifiable appearance was over seven years ago. This article was interesting: http://spectator.org/archives/2009/0...ama-bin-elvis/

  11. #611
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Inked_Daddy View Post
    Hi Molly
    Wasn't it Farakahn who put those words into liberal mouths? http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=77539

    As far as the war goes I said this in the obama thread...

    Two big things that Bush did that were stupid concerning the war...

    1. The damn Mission accomplished banner
    2. Stating that Sadaam had "Gone after my Dad" as a justifiable reason for the war.

    I do believe taking out Sadaam was the right thing to do..it should have been done years before the first time around. I think Bush was just looking for a reason to invade and the intelligence he was given at the time gave him that.

    We should have gotten the fuck out once Sadaam was gone and bankrolled the action with spoils from the invasion...but America does not fight real wars anymore.

    When we pushed him out of Kuwait we should have done it. I have a buddy that was in the Army and could see Bagdad in the distance and had to turn around. We were there defending an interest. The opportunity was missed.

    Ooopss...aren't we supposed to be talking about Obama?

    HAAAAAAAA...got me on the Farakahn thing !!!!!!!! And I agree with everything you just posted. 100 %

  12. #612
    Impatience Guest
    very interesting read.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by melmoney View Post
    ...continuing from the BO thread.

    Nobody can absolutely prove that there was or was not WMD in Iraq. However, there was strong evidence that the weapons were moved to Syria before the invasion of 2003. In fact, about a year ago the second head of the Iraq Air Force said that Saddam ordered WMD to be moved into Syria by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.
    Okay I take it this information is gleaned from General Sada's book Saddam's Secrets.

    If so, General Sada basically states that two unnamed pilots told him they saw yellow barrels with skulls and crossbones being loaded onto two planes that were bound for Syria.

    This constitutes proof?

    Then a disgruntled Syrian journalist, Nizar Najoef, who admittedly spent years in jail and openly hates the regime there, contacts a Dutch newspaper (Der Telegraaf) tells them an unnamed Syrian intelligence officer has told him of three locations where these supposed WMD's were stored.

    This stuff is credible? Someone told me what they saw and someone else told me what he heard?
    Last edited by Ima Sikfuk; 03-25-2009 at 11:25 AM.
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  14. #614
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ima Sikfuk View Post
    Okay I take it this information is gleaned from General Sada's book Saddam's Secrets.

    If so, General Sada basically states that two unnamed pilots told him they saw yellow barrels with skulls and crossbones being loaded onto two planes that were bound for Syria.

    This constitutes proof?

    Then a disgruntled Syrian journalist, Nizar Najoef, who admittedly spent years in jail and openly hates the regime there, contacts a Dutch newspaper (Der Telegraaf) tells them an unnamed Syrian intelligence officer has told him of three locations where these supposed WMD's were stored.

    This stuff is credible? Someone told me what they saw and someone else to me what he heard?

    Thanks for saving me the research Ima

  15. #615
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Impatience View Post
    i'm going to say what others have said before:

    if we can find sadam in a hole in the desert, we can surely find a 6 foot arab man pulling a dialysis (sp?) machine behind him. surely.


    Okay I just woke up (Im feeling icky today) so Im late for this party as always, but I got a good LOL outta this statement!

  16. #616
    melmoney Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ima Sikfuk View Post

    This stuff is credible? Someone told me what they saw and someone else told me what he heard?
    I think the witness is certainly credible and what he saw and heard was credible as well. I mean, isn't that what a witness is?? In a criminal trial, we have witnesses that come forward and say what they saw or heard. It's up to the jury to decide. In this case, we are the jurors. Some might believe him, some might not.

  17. #617
    fml Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidMolly View Post
    This is the problem I have. I don`t care if we spend billions of dollars taking out these insidious fractions, but I want it done where it does the most good. Afgahnistan should have been our main priority, not Iraq. Take care of what we do know for sure, and then look into Iraq. It smacks of deceit in the highest form. I believe they knew there were no WMD`s in Iraq, and I believe they knew before the first shot was fired. And I am more than outraged about it, I am deeply saddened. When every soldier, joins, they know they may called up to defend their country, with perhaps the ultimate sacrifice. And I know many supported GWB, but just as many have been disillusioned. Perhaps that is the way of all wars. All I know, is I think it reeks that this young men and women, not to mention the American civilians, have lost their lives, based on no more than a man trying to please his father, and one big stinking lie.
    You do know that congress not the Pres gets us into war, right? 77 voted for the use of force. Colin Powel is the liar,if you need to beleive there was one (I don't)

    I supported the decision - were mistaked made, naturally.

    As far as the mission accomplished foolishness, even Bush has stated it was a mistake. To be fair, the "mission" was not the war, it was put up by members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their 10 month mission was accomplished. Bush admits that the banner should have been much more specific.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by melmoney View Post
    I think the witness is certainly credible and what he saw and heard was credible as well. I mean, isn't that what a witness is?? In a criminal trial, we have witnesses that come forward and say what they saw or heard. It's up to the jury to decide. In this case, we are the jurors. Some might believe him, some might not.
    Mel I think the problem is most people were looking for the US to find some James Bond type of underground lair filled with thousands of barrels of mustard gas or something nasty. Even if the Yellow Barrel fella turned out to be legit it doesn't seem to be "enough" to go to war over. Until the James Bond lair is found I think it will be very hard to convince anyone on the WMD argument.

  19. #619
    Impatience Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Inked_Daddy View Post
    Mel I think the problem is most people were looking for the US to find some James Bond type of underground lair filled with thousands of barrels of mustard gas or something nasty. Even if the Yellow Barrel fella turned out to be legit it doesn't seem to be "enough" to go to war over. Until the James Bond lair is found I think it will be very hard to convince anyone on the WMD argument.
    or something along the lines of the batcave at least. and yes, i agree. two yellow barrels should not cost thousands and thousands of lives.

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by fml View Post
    You do know that congress not the Pres gets us into war, right? 77 voted for the use of force. Colin Powel is the liar,if you need to beleive there was one (I don't)

    I supported the decision - were mistakes made, naturally.

    As far as the mission accomplished foolishness, even Bush has stated it was a mistake. To be fair, the "mission" was not the war, it was put up by members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their 10 month mission was accomplished. Bush admits that the banner should have been much more specific.
    Actually the Iraq Resolution authorized President Bush to ""as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq". The resolution also encouraged an supported continued diplomatic efforts. President Bush signed the resolution into law on October 16, 2002, US forces were in Iraq 5 month later. There is plenty of "blame" to go around but those whocontinue to put President Bush or the administration above reproach are disingenuous at best.
    Last edited by Ima Sikfuk; 03-25-2009 at 01:07 PM.
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  21. #621
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ima Sikfuk View Post
    Actually the Iraq Resolution authorized President Bush to ""as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq". The resolution also encouraged an supported continued diplomatic efforts. President Bush signed the resolution into law on October 16, 2002, US forces were in Iraq 5 month later. There is plenty of "blame" to go around but to continue to put President Bush or the administration above reproach is disingenuous at best.

    Well said Ima!

  22. #622
    NaCl Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    Is that good enough info for you to kill 4,000 of our kids and spend billions of our dollars? Its not credible enough for me.
    At least it isn't 50,000 like in Viet Nam.

    I'm not defending the war in Iraq. But we are there now, and I see Obama hasn't ended it in the last 60 day, so I believe we will still be there for several more months.

  23. #623
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Inked_Daddy View Post
    Mel I think the problem is most people were looking for the US to find some James Bond type of underground lair filled with thousands of barrels of mustard gas or something nasty. Even if the Yellow Barrel fella turned out to be legit it doesn't seem to be "enough" to go to war over. Until the James Bond lair is found I think it will be very hard to convince anyone on the WMD argument.

    See my issue is, he went out standing by the whole WMD. I have seen Obama on TV at least twice since he took his oath, appologizing, and stating he has made a mistake. I appreciate this. I know Presidents are human, but when they act like smug buttheads while flushing my country down the toliet, that makes me mad. If he wouldve just said my bad there were no WMD but Saddam was a bastard, who needed to die, I would agree with him. But treating all Americans like we cant possibly think for ourselves and he is better and smarter than all of us, makes me want to puke!

  24. #624
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NaCl View Post
    At least it isn't 50,000 like in Viet Nam.

    I'm not defending the war in Iraq. But we are there now, and I see Obama hasn't ended it in the last 60 day, so I believe we will still be there for several more months.

    You obviously do not know anything about wars, or how they work. Its not humanly possibly to bring the amount of troops we have in Iraq, home in 60 days. NOT possibly. Then lets not forget about the gear, and vehicles they have with them.

    Obama has never said he was going to end the Iraq war in 2 months. If you are going to enter a debate, please at least bring some truth to the table.

  25. #625
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    W's "Can't be wrong attitude" probably did more damage to himself and the party than anyone has in 30 years. As a Republican it even bothered me. W was often compared to Regan in the beginning but did not hold a candle. Reagen could strongly disagree with people, argue, but still people personally liked him. Bush failed miserably in that regard.

  26. #626
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Inked_Daddy View Post
    W's "Can't be wrong attitude" probably did more damage to himself and the party than anyone has in 30 years. As a Republican it even bothered me. W was often compared to Regan in the beginning but did not hold a candle. Reagen could strongly disagree with people, argue, but still people personally liked him. Bush failed miserably in that regard.

    Agreed Inked.

  27. #627
    NaCl Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Meli View Post
    You obviously do not know anything about wars, or how they work. Its not humanly possibly to bring the amount of troops we have in Iraq, home in 60 days. NOT possibly. Then lets not forget about the gear, and vehicles they have with them.

    Obama has never said he was going to end the Iraq war in 2 months. If you are going to enter a debate, please at least bring some truth to the table.
    Of course I know that. I just don't believe the majority of people who voted for Obama "to end the war" know that. Reality is sinking in. His numbers are falling. It's going to be a very long 4 years.

  28. #628
    fml Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ima Sikfuk View Post
    Actually the Iraq Resolution authorized President Bush to ""as he determines to be necessary and appropriate" in order to "defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq". The resolution also encouraged an supported continued diplomatic efforts. President Bush signed the resolution into law on October 16, 2002, US forces were in Iraq 5 month later. There is plenty of "blame" to go around but to continue to put President Bush or the administration above reproach is disingenuous at best.
    Since I have not done that I will assume you're just talking in general.

    Just like you might to those who claim he did it all by himself for revenge and he was so smart he got the resloution to pass by fooling those who voted for it.

  29. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by fml View Post
    Since I have not done that I will assume you're just talking in general.

    Just like you might to those who claim he did it all by himself for revenge and he was so smart he got the resloution to pass by fooling those who voted for it.
    I apologize for not making that clear. I did indeed mean in general.
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  30. #630
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    I think shortly after 9/11 everyone in American politics were out for blood, even if just a little bit. I think that has alot to do with how the Resolution was passed.

  31. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by melmoney View Post
    I think the witness is certainly credible and what he saw and heard was credible as well. I mean, isn't that what a witness is?? In a criminal trial, we have witnesses that come forward and say what they saw or heard. It's up to the jury to decide. In this case, we are the jurors. Some might believe him, some might not.
    Sorry for not responding immediately. My point was neither General Sada nor Nizar Najoef actually witnessed anything, they were re-iterating what someone else had told them. I am not a legal scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but I believe in legalese this would be considered heresay, which I believe as a rule is not admissible in court although there are exceptions but again, I am not a legal scholar.
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  32. #632
    Impatience Guest
    I swiped this from my facebook page... it still makes me giggle:

    "The truth of that matter is, if you listen carefully, Saddam would still be in power if he were the president of the United States, and the world would be a lot better off." ~ Dubya, 10.8.2004

  33. #633
    pvezz Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by fml View Post
    Since I have not done that I will assume you're just talking in general.

    Just like you might to those who claim he did it all by himself for revenge and he was so smart he got the resloution to pass by fooling those who voted for it.
    I have nothing to say to this but lol.

  34. #634
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by fml View Post
    You do know that congress not the Pres gets us into war, right? 77 voted for the use of force. Colin Powel is the liar,if you need to beleive there was one (I don't)

    I supported the decision - were mistaked made, naturally.

    As far as the mission accomplished foolishness, even Bush has stated it was a mistake. To be fair, the "mission" was not the war, it was put up by members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their 10 month mission was accomplished. Bush admits that the banner should have been much more specific.
    Yes, I am well aware of that. My husband has done 2 tours, I am not a imbecile. And who appointed Colin Powell ??? Am I to truly believe that Bush was not informed of everything that transpired ??? Bush admits NOTHING. About ANYTHING . I`ve seen more of Cheney in the last 2 months then in the last 8 years. Even the Republicans want him to go away. If you believe Bush did a good job, and the truth was told about everything, that is your right. No culpabilty, that seems to be the catch phrase, and even though they are out of office, they STILL insist they made NO mistakes. I don`t know about you, but the last time I looked no poilitician was Jesus . The banner meant exactly what it was intended to mean. Even the crew members have stated that. Just another " mistake " that no one wants to own up to. You see, I don`t expect perfection in any President, what I do expect is a decorum of respect for the American people, and the troops that fight for this country. And I saw none of that. All I saw was the rich get richer, and Haliburton stock go through the roof, at the expense of 4,000 lives. I have stated this MANY times, I am neither hard core left, nor hard core right. I DO believe in things that the Republican party USED to stand for, and I also believe in many things the Democratic party stand for. What I DON`T believe is being treated like some 5 year old child that can`t think for themselves. And that`s how I`ve felt for the last 8 years. I am registered Independent, and I will be til the day I die, in more ways than one. I can think for myself, do research, and try and seperate the crap from the truth. Many Independents are just like me. We have made, and broke more than one presidental campaign. We, for the most part, vote for our beliefs, not by some doctrine put down by a party that has no true interest in REALLY changing anything. I believe it`s something my mother used to call, the lesser of 2 evils. And if I`m not mistaken the Congress was Republican in 2003 when the vote was taken to take us to war.

    My husband is Republican, and believe me we have had many discussions on many things political, sometimes heated, but never disrespectful.....here`s a clue as to why Obama won, and why my husband didn`t vote Republican, as many Republicans didn`t....from an article published in 2006

    The Gallup polling organization recorded a 13-percentage-point drop in Republican support for Bush in the past couple of weeks. These usually reliable voters are telling pollsters and lawmakers they are fed up with what they see as out-of-control spending by Washington and, more generally, an abandonment of core conservative principles.

  35. #635
    pvezz Guest
    I love ya, Molls. For the record, I'm a registered Republican, but a disillusionsed, pissed-off and lied to Republican.

    Edited to thank Molly's husband for his service.
    Last edited by pvezz; 03-25-2009 at 07:13 PM.

  36. #636
    fml Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidMolly View Post
    Yes, I am well aware of that. My husband has done 2 tours, I am not a imbecile. And who appointed Colin Powell ??? Am I to truly believe that Bush was not informed of everything that transpired ??? Bush admits NOTHING. About ANYTHING . I`ve seen more of Cheney in the last 2 months then in the last 8 years. Even the Republicans want him to go away. If you believe Bush did a good job, and the truth was told about everything, that is your right. No culpabilty, that seems to be the catch phrase, and even though they are out of office, they STILL insist they made NO mistakes. I don`t know about you, but the last time I looked no poilitician was Jesus . The banner meant exactly what it was intended to mean. Even the crew members have stated that. Just another " mistake " that no one wants to own up to. You see, I don`t expect perfection in any President, what I do expect is a decorum of respect for the American people, and the troops that fight for this country. And I saw none of that. All I saw was the rich get richer, and Haliburton stock go through the roof, at the expense of 4,000 lives. I have stated this MANY times, I am neither hard core left, nor hard core right. I DO believe in things that the Republican party USED to stand for, and I also believe in many things the Democratic party stand for. What I DON`T believe is being treated like some 5 year old child that can`t think for themselves. And that`s how I`ve felt for the last 8 years. I am registered Independent, and I will be til the day I die, in more ways than one. I can think for myself, do research, and try and seperate the crap from the truth. Many Independents are just like me. We have made, and broke more than one presidental campaign. We, for the most part, vote for our beliefs, not by some doctrine put down by a party that has no true interest in REALLY changing anything. I believe it`s something my mother used to call, the lesser of 2 evils. And if I`m not mistaken the Congress was Republican in 2003 when the vote was taken to take us to war.

    My husband is Republican, and believe me we have had many discussions on many things political, sometimes heated, but never disrespectful.....here`s a clue as to why Obama won, and why my husband didn`t vote Republican, as many Republicans didn`t....from an article published in 2006

    The Gallup polling organization recorded a 13-percentage-point drop in Republican support for Bush in the past couple of weeks. These usually reliable voters are telling pollsters and lawmakers they are fed up with what they see as out-of-control spending by Washington and, more generally, an abandonment of core conservative principles.
    Boy you sure get huffy. I never said anyone was perfect, I said I supported the war - as was supported by the majority at the time.

    You imply Powell was a Bush puppet, I don't agree. You state he takes no responsibility again I disagree. He takes all the responsibility and does own up to mistakes being made. To repeat, he admits the banner was a misjudgement. It was not, though, the horrific evil you need to place on it. That he feels many of the actions you think were mistakes were not only means you disagree.

    You jump from the war to the bolded poll - I happen to agree he spent too much and was much more a moderate than a convervative. He also screwed up with daylights savings which made me mad That your husband decided to abandon all conervative hope for this country and vote for a far leaning liberal is a personal matter. You also assume far more about my political leanings than has been posted.

    The silly accusation I hold Bush to some higher standard that I need to be condenscended to is irritating.

  37. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by fml View Post
    Boy you sure get huffy. I never said anyone was perfect, I said I supported the war - as was supported by the majority at the time.

    You imply Powell was a Bush puppet, I don't agree. You state he takes no responsibility again I disagree. He takes all the responsibility and does own up to mistakes being made. To repeat, he admits the banner was a misjudgement. It was not, though, the horrific evil you need to place on it. That he feels many of the actions you think were mistakes were not only means you disagree.

    You jump from the war to the bolded poll - I happen to agree he spent too much and was much more a moderate than a convervative. He also screwed up with daylights savings which made me mad That your husband decided to abandon all conervative hope for this country and vote for a far leaning liberal is a personal matter. You also assume far more about my political leanings than has been posted.

    The silly accusation I hold Bush to some higher standard that I need to be condenscended to is irritating.
    Wow, admitting that a banner was a misjudgment. LOL, good for George!!
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  38. #638
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by NaCl View Post
    Of course I know that. I just don't believe the majority of people who voted for Obama "to end the war" know that. Reality is sinking in. His numbers are falling. It's going to be a very long 4 years.

    Oh so you are saying we (Obama supporters) are stupid Really the people who supported him, still are, the numbers falling are from the repubs who jumped ship and voted for him b/c they were sick of Bush, and McCain was scary as hell.

  39. #639
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Luanne View Post
    Wow, admitting that a banner was a misjudgment. LOL, good for George!!

    Exactly! Woooo give the man a cookie, he owned up to a bad banner... never mind the mess in Louisiana, and DONT get me started on the two wars our troops are fighting, and the over 4000 death of those troops

  40. #640
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MorbidMolly View Post
    Yes, I am well aware of that. My husband has done 2 tours, I am not a imbecile. And who appointed Colin Powell ??? Am I to truly believe that Bush was not informed of everything that transpired ??? Bush admits NOTHING. About ANYTHING . I`ve seen more of Cheney in the last 2 months then in the last 8 years. Even the Republicans want him to go away. If you believe Bush did a good job, and the truth was told about everything, that is your right. No culpabilty, that seems to be the catch phrase, and even though they are out of office, they STILL insist they made NO mistakes. I don`t know about you, but the last time I looked no poilitician was Jesus . The banner meant exactly what it was intended to mean. Even the crew members have stated that. Just another " mistake " that no one wants to own up to. You see, I don`t expect perfection in any President, what I do expect is a decorum of respect for the American people, and the troops that fight for this country. And I saw none of that. All I saw was the rich get richer, and Haliburton stock go through the roof, at the expense of 4,000 lives. I have stated this MANY times, I am neither hard core left, nor hard core right. I DO believe in things that the Republican party USED to stand for, and I also believe in many things the Democratic party stand for. What I DON`T believe is being treated like some 5 year old child that can`t think for themselves. And that`s how I`ve felt for the last 8 years. I am registered Independent, and I will be til the day I die, in more ways than one. I can think for myself, do research, and try and seperate the crap from the truth. Many Independents are just like me. We have made, and broke more than one presidental campaign. We, for the most part, vote for our beliefs, not by some doctrine put down by a party that has no true interest in REALLY changing anything. I believe it`s something my mother used to call, the lesser of 2 evils. And if I`m not mistaken the Congress was Republican in 2003 when the vote was taken to take us to war.

    My husband is Republican, and believe me we have had many discussions on many things political, sometimes heated, but never disrespectful.....here`s a clue as to why Obama won, and why my husband didn`t vote Republican, as many Republicans didn`t....from an article published in 2006

    The Gallup polling organization recorded a 13-percentage-point drop in Republican support for Bush in the past couple of weeks. These usually reliable voters are telling pollsters and lawmakers they are fed up with what they see as out-of-control spending by Washington and, more generally, an abandonment of core conservative principles.

    Have I told you lately that I love you? Well I do Molls, you rock, as does your hubby *kisses*

  41. #641
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,942
    Quote Originally Posted by Meli View Post
    Oh so you are saying we (Obama supporters) are stupid Really the people who supported him, still are, the numbers falling are from the repubs who jumped ship and voted for him b/c they were sick of Bush, and McCain was scary as hell.
    Meli I am curious... did you see this reported in a poll someplace or is that just your take on it? That is interesting...I have not heard anyone state that as the reason for the drop.

  42. #642
    Meli Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Inked_Daddy View Post
    Meli I am curious... did you see this reported in a poll someplace or is that just your take on it? That is interesting...I have not heard anyone state that as the reason for the drop.

    Not a poll, but (I dont trust polls anyways) but every Repub that I know that voted for him are now turning on him (My husband is one of them) I think they hated McCain as he was just like Bush, and honestly knew he didnt have a chance, so they voted for Obama, just to say they gave him a chance and he blew it. (Even though he has only been in office 2 months, I guess some people expected miracles)

  43. #643
    Sam Guest
    In my book George W. Bush ranks right up there with Hitler.
    In fact as a Gay man with a Jewish boyfriend I think I like Hitler more!

  44. #644
    pattykad Guest
    Wow Pvezz....a registered Republican, huh? And a damn wise one.

    And Ima, of course the weapons are in Syria. Sean Hannity said so!

  45. #645
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,165
    There is a whole bunch of excitement/hubbub where I work today. George W. Bush and Bill Clinton are making an appearance at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre today, which is directly across Front St. from the building I work in. The street has been blocked off - which is a big deal. It's a very busy street - metal barricades are up and there are LOTS of tall men in dark suits and sunglasses standing around doing the casual-alert thing. They say the number of portesters could be in the thousands. News trucks are everywhere. We've been told the front and side doors of our building will be locked, so I have to go to the other end of the building to go out for smoke today, which I guess is as good a reason as any to hate George W.

  46. #646
    pvezz Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by duster View Post
    There is a whole bunch of excitement/hubbub where I work today. George W. Bush and Bill Clinton are making an appearance at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre today, which is directly across Front St. from the building I work in. The street has been blocked off - which is a big deal. It's a very busy street - metal barricades are up and there are LOTS of tall men in dark suits and sunglasses standing around doing the casual-alert thing. They say the number of portesters could be in the thousands. News trucks are everywhere. We've been told the front and side doors of our building will be locked, so I have to go to the other end of the building to go out for smoke today, which I guess is as good a reason as any to hate George W.

    lololol - take some pics for us!

  47. #647
    pattykad Guest
    I stayed at the Fairmont two weeks ago. The waittress told me
    that Bill stays there when he is in town and in fact had his
    60th birthday there. I believe her words were, "be still my heart".

  48. #648
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,165
    So I just went downstairs to check out the protests (only b/c I heard that one of the female demonstrators was walking around topless). There are only a couple of hundred, all the usual suspects - anarchists, environmentalists (they're the ones with gray hair, ponytails and Birkenstocks), aboriginals, union types and various people with multi-coloured hair.
    They set up a huge 8x8 plastic picture of Bush and they were lining up to throw shoes at it. I was amazed at the number of people who missed it all together .

  49. #649
    pattykad Guest
    Why couldn't they have done that when I was there?

  50. #650
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,165
    Quote Originally Posted by pattykad View Post
    Why couldn't they have done that when I was there?
    The topless thing?

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