Challenger and Other Space Tragedies

[Giada]

I know alan ... I can remember where I was for both the Challenger and Columbia.

Nation in shock.

With Columbia I awoke early made coffee cooked breakfast for family, and decided, (7:30?) to curl up in bed watch the morning news and then shop, clean, etc.

I knew, when I heard the first hesitation on Columbia, it was gone. I felt paralyzed again and I couldn't do anything for an hour or so after I knew Columbia was gone.

Something endemic in our psyche that imprints and for me, I can have death discussions but also I know I have a limit and need diversion.

[Fujicakes]

Thanks for posting the link Fujicakes ... feels like a hundred years since the Challenger. I haven't thought of it but briefly.

The one lone soul who was chastised within the company and lost his position. NASA, during this time, was constantly under pressure to launch.

You are good matey. Reminds me of the chick with the red tattoo in the movie.

No problem, I do what I can

[STsFirstmate]

Spent some time at NASA this year as part of a family vacation. Very, very cool.
They have two tours that you must take if you go.
One is called the "Then & Now" tour. Takes you where the space program started: launchpads, etc. The coolest part was when we went to the Apollo 1 launch pad. I have some cool pics, but they are not cooperating right now to be attached. Damn pics.

The reason I mentioned this is that on this tour, they take you past where the Challenger parts & pieces were buried. They were put into an abandoned silo and then filled with concrete. Our tour guide was saying that after Columbia blew up that NASA wished that they hadn't done that with the Challenger. Something about relevance between disasters.

If you are ever there, please take that tour. Best afternoon spent.

There is an engineering term reliability engineers use for the anticipated frequency at which something can be expected to fail. It is called MTBF, mean time between failures.
The original data from the reliability engineers who worked on the first shuttle design estimated loss off a vehicle per decade, roughly a shuttle eveny 10 years. It has worked out pretty close to that number.
It is always a risk vs benefit analysis in the end. People of good intention on both sides can say that once a decade is too frequent to be acceptable and the other camp and can say the information and technology values outweigh the fiscal and emotional cost of the losses.
I don't have strong feelings one way or the other as long as everyone climbing on that shuttle knows the risk. I don't think that Christa knew and I don't think the civilian Hughes Engineer knew.
They had a right to factor that data into their decision to fly.
Now if you ask me today if I would go up on the last shuttle flight I would be elbowing people out of the way to get on board.
Regards,
Mary

[Jrwzeigle]

Thanks Mary.....I am sure the tour guide wanted to say more, but couldn't.
Thanks for an explanation from an engineer's POV.

[Miho]

I think what got me about Columbia is that we witnessed it breaking up over a period of time knowing that there was nothing that can be done. I don't know the exact numbers, but for how long was it visible in the sky?

[Miho]

• 8:44:09 (EI+000) – Entry Interface (EI), arbitrarily defined as the point at which the Orbiter enters the discernible atmosphere at 400,000 feet (120 km; 76 mi), occurred over the Pacific Ocean.

As Columbia descended from outer space into the atmosphere, the heat produced by air molecules colliding with the Orbiter typically caused wing leading-edge temperatures to rise steadily, reaching an estimated 2,500 °F (1,370 °C) during the next six minutes. (As former Space Shuttle Program Manager Wayne Hale stated in a press briefing, the majority--about 90%--of this heating is the result of compression of the atmospheric gas caused by the orbiter's supersonic flight, rather than the result of friction.)

• 8:48:39 (EI+270) – A sensor on the left wing leading edge spar showed strains higher than those seen on previous Columbia re-entries.

This was recorded only on the Modular Auxiliary Data System, which is similar in concept to a flight data recorder, and was not telemetered to ground controllers or displayed to the crew.

• 8:49:32 (EI+323) – Columbia executed a pre-planned roll to the right. Speed: Mach 24.5.

Columbia began a banking turn to manage lift and therefore limit the Orbiter's rate of descent and heating.

• 8:50:53 (EI+404) – Columbia entered a 10-minute period of peak heating, during which the thermal stresses were at their maximum. Speed: Mach 24.1; altitude: 243,000 feet (74 km; 46 mi).

Columbia at approximately 8:57. Debris is visible coming off from the left wing (bottom).

• 8:52:00 (EI+471) – Columbia was approximately 300 miles (480 km) west of the California coastline.

The wing leading-edge temperatures usually reached 2,650 °F (1,450 °C) at this point.

• 8:53:26 (EI+557) – Columbia crossed the California coast west of Sacramento. Speed: Mach 23; altitude: 231,600 feet (70.6 km; 43.9 mi).

Columbia debris (in red, orange, and yellow) detected by National Weather Service radar over Texas and Louisiana.







The Orbiter's wing leading edge typically reached more than 2,800 °F (1,540 °C) at this point.

• 8:53:46 (EI+597) – Signs of debris being shed were sighted by people out to watch. Speed: Mach 22.8; altitude: 230,200 feet (70.2 km; 43.6 mi).

The superheated air surrounding the Orbiter suddenly brightened, causing a streak in the Orbiter's luminescent trail that was quite noticeable in the pre-dawn skies over the West Coast. Observers witnessed another four similar events during the following 23 seconds. Dialogue on some of the amateur footage indicates the observers were aware of the abnormality of what they were filming.

• 8:54:24 (EI+613) – The Maintenance, Mechanical, and Crew Systems (MMACS) officer informed the Flight Director that four hydraulic sensors in the left wing were indicating "off-scale low." In Mission Control, re-entry had been proceeding normally up to this point.

"Off-scale low" is a reading that falls below the minimum capability of the sensor, and it usually indicates that the sensor has failed (stopped functioning, due to internal or external factors), rather than that the quantity it measures is actually below the sensor's minimum response value.The Entry Team continued to discuss the failed indicators.

• 8:54:25 (EI+614) – Columbia crossed from California into Nevada airspace. Speed: Mach 22.5; altitude: 227,400 feet (69.3 km; 43.1 mi).

Witnesses observed a bright flash at this point and 18 similar events in the next four minutes.

• 8:55:00 (EI+651) – Nearly 11 minutes after Columbia re-entered the atmosphere, wing leading-edge temperatures normally reached nearly 3,000 °F (1,650 °C).
• 8:55:32 (EI+683) – Columbia crossed from Nevada into Utah. Speed: Mach 21.8; altitude: 223,400 feet (68.1 km; 42.3 mi).
• 8:55:52 (EI+703) – Columbia crossed from Utah into Arizona.
• 8:56:30 (EI+741) – Columbia initiated a roll reversal, turning from right to left over Arizona.
• 8:56:45 (EI+756) – Columbia crossed from Arizona to New Mexico. Speed: Mach 20.9; altitude: 219,000 feet (67 km; 41 mi).
• 8:57:24 (EI+795) – Columbia crossed just north of Albuquerque.
• 8:58:00 (EI+831) – At this point, wing leading-edge temperatures typically decreased to 2,880 °F (1,580 °C).
• 8:58:20 (EI+851) – Columbia crossed from New Mexico into Texas. Speed: Mach 19.5; altitude: 209,800 feet (63.9 km; 39.7 mi).

At about this time, the Orbiter shed a Thermal Protection System tile, the most westerly piece of debris that has been recovered. Searchers found the tile in a field in Littlefield, Texas, just northwest of Lubbock.

• 8:59:15 (EI+906) – MMACS informed the Flight Director that pressure readings had been lost on both left main landing-gear tires. The Flight Director then told the Capsule Communicator (CAPCOM) to let the crew know that Mission Control saw the messages and was evaluating the indications, and added that the Flight Control Team did not understand the crew's last transmission.
• 8:59:32 (EI+923) – A broken response from the mission commander was recorded: "Roger, uh, bu - [cut off in mid-word] ..." It was the last communication from the crew and the last telemetry signal received in Mission Control.
• 8:59:37 (EI+928) – Hydraulic pressure, which is required to move the flight control surfaces, was lost at approximately GMT 13:59:37. At that time, the Master Alarm would have sounded for the loss of hydraulics and the crew would have become aware of a serious problem.
• 9:00:18 (EI+969) – Videos and eyewitness reports by observers on the ground in and near Dallas, Texas revealed that the Orbiter had disintegrated overhead, continuing to break up into more and smaller pieces, and leaving multiple contrails, as it continued eastward. In Mission Control, while the loss of signal was a cause for concern, there was no sign of any serious problem. Prior to orbiter breakup at GMT 14:00:18, the Columbia cabin pressure was nominal and the crew was capable of conscious actions.[10]
• 9:05 – Residents of north central Texas, particularly near Tyler, reported a loud boom, a small concussion wave, smoke trails and debris in the clear skies above the counties east of Dallas.

[neilmpenny]

Watch the NASA video report, more detailed than anything you will find in this thread

[racingfan]

While I would like to see that live feed, it would be so horrible to watch...knowing that the Challenger seven were aware of what was happening up until the end.

It would be horrible to see, but I'd still look if I could -- curiosity always gets the best of me when it comes to this stuff. I had bought into the story for years that they really didn't know what hit them -- it bothers me to know that they were conscious to the end. Would still like to see the feed though.

[Miho]

Watch the NASA video report, more detailed than anything you will find in this thread

Can I find it on the NASA site?

[Miho]

FOund this

http://www.nasa.gov/columbia/home/CAIB_Vol1.html

[neilmpenny]

Can I find it on the NASA site?

I got it on a NASA anniversary pack. Will hunt it out tonight for you.

[GrinReaper]

There's no way I would ever get on one of those things.

[Miho]

I got it on a NASA anniversary pack. Will hunt it out tonight for you.

Thanks Neil. I found this too. Thought you might enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY1KP...eature=related

[neilmpenny]

Thanks Neil. I found this too. Thought you might enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY1KP...eature=related

Good stuff Miho.

Found the DVD's. It is a five DVD set made by MADACY Entertainment dated 1998, a Canadian company based in Quebec. It is called 'NASA 25 years Triumph and Tragedy'.

Disc five sleeve notes (Challenger accident) state: This tape was prepared by the 51-L Data and Design Analysis Task Force and documents the Task Force's activities and findings. It provides concise, technical explanation of the cause of the Challenger accident.

Not watched it for a couple of years but I do remember I was surprised how many camera angles they had on the shuttle at launch. I think the idea was to document every square inch of the ship as well as provide backup so as to have two views of everything. I remember that every significant event was shown from multiple angles and those directly related to the accident were circled. Follows it up until the O-Ring failure and then attempts to identify all the major flight hardware during and after disintegration including crew cabin, boosters, engines etc etc. Very very comprehensive.

If you cannot find the set or it is unavailable, I am prepared to burn a copy for you matey.

[Miho]

Good stuff Miho.

Found the DVD's. It is a five DVD set made by MADACY Entertainment dated 1998, a Canadian company based in Quebec. It is called 'NASA 25 years Triumph and Tragedy'.

Disc five sleeve notes (Challenger accident) state: This tape was prepared by the 51-L Data and Design Analysis Task Force and documents the Task Force's activities and findings. It provides concise, technical explanation of the cause of the Challenger accident.

Not watched it for a couple of years but I do remember I was surprised how many camera angles they had on the shuttle at launch. I think the idea was to document every square inch of the ship as well as provide backup so as to have two views of everything. I remember that every significant event was shown from multiple angles and those directly related to the accident were circled. Follows it up until the O-Ring failure and then attempts to identify all the major flight hardware during and after disintegration including crew cabin, boosters, engines etc etc. Very very comprehensive.

If you cannot find the set or it is unavailable, I am prepared to burn a copy for you matey.

Thanks! I'm going to poke around and see what I can find.

[neilmpenny]

Thanks! I'm going to poke around and see what I can find.

Poke away!

[Tony Trout]

Good stuff Miho.

Found the DVD's. It is a five DVD set made by MADACY Entertainment dated 1998, a Canadian company based in Quebec. It is called 'NASA 25 years Triumph and Tragedy'.

Disc five sleeve notes (Challenger accident) state: This tape was prepared by the 51-L Data and Design Analysis Task Force and documents the Task Force's activities and findings. It provides concise, technical explanation of the cause of the Challenger accident.

Not watched it for a couple of years but I do remember I was surprised how many camera angles they had on the shuttle at launch. I think the idea was to document every square inch of the ship as well as provide backup so as to have two views of everything. I remember that every significant event was shown from multiple angles and those directly related to the accident were circled. Follows it up until the O-Ring failure and then attempts to identify all the major flight hardware during and after disintegration including crew cabin, boosters, engines etc etc. Very very comprehensive.

If you cannot find the set or it is unavailable, I am prepared to burn a copy for you matey.

Neil,

Would you be so kind as to burn a copy for me, also? Let me know and I'll PM you my mailing address.

Thanks,
Tony T.

[Giada]

Thanks for the post peeps. I plan to watch the full version ...

[gas_chick]

Can't believe it has been 25 years since I watched this play out on television. RIP

[Forever-27]

I remember being in the 10th grade. They forced us to watch the challenger lift off in 1986. None of us gave two shits about it, space is/was boring. I was in science class and the Tv was on in the classroom. As we were all screwing around, one of us turned to the Tv and said holy shit, the attention turned to the Tv set and at that point the ship blew up.
Then I turned my walkman back on and it was business as usual. I think I was listening to the new at the time Iron Maiden album.


My teacher Mrs. Attachson was actually crying.





Then came all the jokes ...

What was NASAs offical drink - 7 UP

What did christa mcculiff say to her family before she went to florida ? You feed the dog ill feed the fish


Geeze I dont remember them all, but there were lots of them.

[shipmatekate]

I was in San Francisco, waiting to take a test to work for the USPS.

I can remember it so clearly, it was very upsetting.

[Miho]

So I just noticed that Apollo 1 fire happened on January 27th. Challenger January 28th and Columbia February 1st.

Umm kinda eerie

[Spinknarf]

My dad's step-cousin, Greg Jarvis, was the payload specialist on The Challenger. My great Aunt (Greg was her son from a previous marriage) and great Uncle were in Florida to watch the shuttle lift off, and obviously, they were never quite the same afterwards. Happened on my Dad's birthday too. Pretty miserable day.

[shipmatekate]

My dad's step-cousin, Greg Jarvis, was the payload specialist on The Challenger. My great Aunt (Greg was her son from a previous marriage) and great Uncle were in Florida to watch the shuttle lift off, and obviously, they were never quite the same afterwards. Happened on my Dad's birthday too. Pretty miserable day.

So sorry for your family.

[Giada]

Perspective shifts through living ... we're never quite the same as we were before any tragedy that touches us personally.

Safe Journey ...

[Guest]

one of my teachers was a finalist for the Teacher in Space program and once worked for NASA

I was really into science and the space program back then..I remember telling my mom that morning while watching the news about them having to thaw out the tanks that it wasn't a good idea to send it up..she asked why and I explained the effects of cold then rapid heat on the seals..comparing it to a rubber band being exposed to sever cold then heat and how it will be come brittle and weaken

sitting in class watching the launch then seeing the flame on the side of the tank..I looked at my teacher and he and I locked eyes knowing it wasn't good..then the explosion..some in class started cheering thinking it was supposed to happen..he and I knew better..he excused class and left for the rest of the day..he worked with a couple of those on board and got to know McCullif through the interview and training process

I don't think that man has ever been the same...

my ex husband's birthday is today and he actually thinks it's "cool" that this happened on his birthday..not because it's part of history but he actually thinks its funny that on the day of his birth 7 people died in such a public way..he's sick in the head!

[lisalouver]

Senior year in high school (yeah, I know, I'm OLD, its my 25th reunion this summer) and I remember it so vividly.

I also remember how Reagan sort of became a surrogate father that day to those kids who watched this live on the televison, in his words that evening. I was never a fan of Reagan then or now, but I give him all the credit for what he did that night.

RIP

[suzycreamcheese1]

I didn't know anything about it until I got home. I was taking college placement tests. I had decided to be a teacher.

RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008

[cjw]

My dad's step-cousin, Greg Jarvis, was the payload specialist on The Challenger. My great Aunt (Greg was her son from a previous marriage) and great Uncle were in Florida to watch the shuttle lift off, and obviously, they were never quite the same afterwards. Happened on my Dad's birthday too. Pretty miserable day.

God bless your family. I'm also in Charlotte, well Indian Trail. Howdy neighbor!

[cash]

nice article on Reagan's Challenger speech:


http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/01/27/the-challenger-disaster-and-president-reagans-gift-to-a-grievi/

[Spinknarf]

God bless your family. I'm also in Charlotte, well Indian Trail. Howdy neighbor!

So sorry for your family.

Thanks for the kind words. I just moved here from Orlando three weeks ago. Still getting used to it, but it's nice so far.

I've been honestly wanting to register for this forum since '07, I just never had the proper email requirement until recently. Always had gmail/hotmail, so it's great to finally join the boards!

Can't wait to have the chance to discuss death with some fellow hags!

[Not Fade Away]

I was exactly 6 days old when the Challenger accident occurred. My mother was laying on the sofa with me and was on the phone with her friend who was also watching it. Not that it matters but I always felt it somehow imprinted on me even at 6 days old. Not possible, I know, but still.

[Guest]

I was exactly 6 days old when the Challenger accident occurred. My mother was laying on the sofa with me and was on the phone with her friend who was also watching it. Not that it matters but I always felt it somehow imprinted on me even at 6 days old. Not possible, I know, but still.

my son was exactly 6 days old when 9/11 happened and I was laying on the sofa with him breast feeding when my phone rang and it was my mother screaming we were under attack..my son very much feels the events of that day when he sees the footage even at his tender age of 9..he can empathize with how scary it must have been even for me..to have a newborn baby with something so heinous happening in our world

funny how many details he knows since this happened the week he was born...I can understand how you would feel connected to this event in history.

[SRVFan]

I was in elementary school, kindergarten in fact, but can remember this like it was yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUALwYsXSm8

[gemini33]

Wow, it seems like it's been longer than 25 years. I was in elementary school also. Christa McAuliffe walking down in her space suit smiling and waving away is still fresh in my mind.

[StudioJoe]

How tragic and sad,they can get people to the moon and back and yet they can't save them before orbit.

I think one reason the space program is failing so badly is the goals switched from pure science and technological innovation to making big socio-political statements with the flights like, "Hey, look, we've got a racially, religiously integrated crew and we believe in equality for women too!" NASA became more concerned with currying public favor to get more funding than with fretting over details like cracked o-rings.

[Karma]

I was at my ob's office waiting when he came in the room with tears in his eyes and told me about it. It was on every radio station in the car on the way home. I will never forget it. Kind of like 'where were you when Kennedy was assasinated' thing.

[Mr Chicken]

I was 7 yrs old when the challenger blew up i remember watching it live at home i'm not sure if it was day or night time as i live in england but oh boy did we get a shock even more so when they found parts of one of the astronaughts on my 8th bday.

[Miho]

Space shuttle Columbia part found in East Texas

(CNN) -- Authorities in a Texas city found material from space shuttle Columbia that had fallen into a local lake.
NASA calls the object, which is 4 feet in diameter, a PRSD, or power reactant storage and distribution, said Lisa Malone, a spokeswoman for the agency.
The object is a tank that provides power and water for shuttle missions, she said.
"It's one of ours," Malone said, adding that NASA is trying to develop a plan to recover the item. "We're looking into whether we'll send a team out or local authorities can."
Authorities in the East Texas city of Nacogdoches say the object was found after the drought caused the waters to recede in Lake Nacogdoches, and they notified representatives from NASA on Friday.
Nacogdoches made headlines in 2003 when debris from the shuttle Columbia disaster was found there.
The spacecraft broke up while re-entering Earth's atmosphere near the end of its mission February 1, 2003.
"We want to remind everyone that the rules are the same as they were back in 2003. If this object is indeed a part of the shuttle, it is government property, and it is a criminal offense to tamper with it," said Sgt. Greg Sowell of the Nacogdoches Police Department.
CNN's Dave Alsup contributed to this report.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/02/tex...html?hpt=hp_t2

[theotherlondon]

To this day can remember watching it on CNN and it was
a cold day with icicles on the outside of Challenger.

But Ronald Reagan had to make the State of the Union
that night so it had to go up.

So he could talk about the first teacher in space....sad.

[Miho]

To this day can remember watching it on CNN and it was
a cold day with icicles on the outside of Challenger.

But Ronald Reagan had to make the State of the Union
that night so it had to go up.

So he could talk about the first teacher in space....sad.

A lot of pressure on a lot of people led to bad choices being made that day.

[Giada]

The Challenger failure is one of the best examples of, "Groupthink." The drive to pursue a goal despite contrary information.

[Miho]

Just released video. Thought to be the only amateur footage of the explosion. http://www.country925.com/cc-common/...rticle=9877398

[racingfan]

Hard to believe it's been a decade...RIP Columbia astronauts...

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state...over-texas.ece

[theotherlondon]

I can still remember the day when Challenger disaster
happened.(watched it live on CNN)
The look of Christa McAuliffe's Parents face when they
looked up and thought what is going on up there.
Will never forget.

[WestAussie]

I can still remember the day when Challenger disaster
happened.(watched it live on CNN)
The look of Christa McAuliffe's Parents face when they
looked up and thought what is going on up there.
Will never forget.

I watched this on Youtube last night very sad.

[Alycat32]

My husband works for NASA and was working there during the Columbia accident. This tragedy really touches home for me, not just because my husband works for NASA. At my childrens' elementary school there is an autographed picture of Rick Husband, Columbia's commander. My husband worked with the pilot, Willie McCool. My daughter volunteers at the animal lab at the area science magnet school. Laurel Clark's son, mission specialist, has been there a couple of times and I've seen his dad pick him up. Reminders like seeing the son or the autographed picture, keeps this tragedy alive in my heart.

this is such a very old thread, but my husband was stationed in Guam, so my son attended William C Mccool school on the naval base. I can't recall if he was stationed there himself or was as a child when his father was there but the school is named after him. It's a beautiful school with framed portraits of the astronauts in the hallways. We were there for four years. I miss that school.

[neilmpenny]

lol I'm old, not only do I remember Challenger and Columbia, I remember Apollo 13.

[lulubaines]

lol I'm old, not only do I remember Challenger and Columbia, I remember Apollo 13.

So do I. I only cared about Apollo 13 because the coverage pre-empted Gilligan's Island.

[Alycat32]

So did I read that right? Someone told a previous poster that the control room heard or saw more than any online report said? I might have read that wrong but it sounded like she meant there was more after the "uh oh" and that it didnt just go to dead air