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Thread: The Black Dahlia

  1. #451
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    This is my favorite era of California history. People had huge dreams to make it big and become a star, L.A. was still in its infancy, it wasn't a huge urban sprawl like it is today. Movie, tv and media portrays it as having an unsettling sleepiness to it.

  2. #452
    deathhagmom Guest

    The Black Dahlia

    Hi all, this is my first time posting and I don't know all the ins and outs yet. Anybody have any theories of who killed her? Did she actually become an actress at all? Sorry if this post sounds idiotic

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathhagmom View Post
    Hi all, this is my first time posting and I don't know all the ins and outs yet. Anybody have any theories of who killed her? Did she actually become an actress at all? Sorry if this post sounds idiotic
    Welcome to the forum, deathhagmom! To learn the ins and outs you should read the rules as explained in FAQ, located at the top left of any page, as you were instructed to do before you registered--remember that yellow box? In this case here, please do a search before starting a new thread.
    GOD IS NOT DEAD





  4. #454
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    http://callmeredtelephone.blogspot.c...-phillips.html Michelle Philips connection ???
    The Black Dahlia Heritage

    Tamar Hodel was one of six childrenâ??by three different womenâ??of the most pathologically decadent man in Los Angeles: Dr. George Hodel, the cityâ??s venereal-disease czar and a fixture in its A-list demimonde. Sheâ??d grown up in her fatherâ??s Hollywood house, which resembled a Mayan temple, was designed by Frank Lloyd Wrightâ??s son, and was the site of wild parties, in which Hodel was sometimes joined by director John Huston and photographer Man Ray. George Hodel shared with Man Ray a love for the work of the Marquis de Sade and the belief that the pursuit of personal liberty was worth everythingâ??possibly even, for Hodel, gratuitous murder. What has recently come to light, by way of two startling investigative books (2003â??s Black Dahlia Avenger, by Hodelâ??s exâ??L.A.P.D. homicide-detective son, Steve Hodel, andâ??building upon itâ??Exquisite Corpse, 2006, by art writers Mark Nelson and Sarah Hudson Bayliss), is that George Hodel was a prime suspect in the notorious Black Dahlia murder. (According to Black Dahlia Avenger, Hodel was the killer, and the Los Angeles District Attorneyâ??s office conducted extensive surveillance of him. There were numerous arrests, but no one was ever charged with the murder.) A striking, graphic array of evidence in the two books strongly suggests that it was Hodel who, on January 15, 1947, killed actress Elizabeth Short, then surgically cut her in two and transported the halved, nude, exsanguinated corpseâ??the internal organs kept painstakingly intactâ??to a vacant lot, where he laid the pieces out as if in imitation of certain Surrealist artworks by Man Ray.

  5. #455
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    I don't believe George Hodel killed her, the pictures that he had of what was thought to be Beth Short, were ruled out as not being her, I just read the Black Dahlia files and it does have some strong evidence of it being some other guy. I wish that the case would be solved. Would love to get my hands on all the case files the LAPD has of this.

  6. #456
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    Suicide ruled out?............................

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEM View Post
    Suicide ruled out?............................
    Haha.
    I am the king of all things stupid!

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEM View Post
    Suicide ruled out?............................

    Haha good one

  9. #459
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    Tamar Hodel, the daughter of former BD suspect Dr George Hodel, is in hospice care. He might not have killed Elizabeth Short, but he damned near destroyed Tamar.

    http://dujour.com/news/uncovering-th...-dahlia-murder


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  10. #460
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    I would love to see this one solved. I wonder how valid Janice Knowlton's claims are about her father, George Knowlton as killer? I'm not one to discredit recovered memories, but I don't think we will ever know.
    "Tequila may not be the answer, but it's worth a shot."

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  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaBrown View Post
    I would love to see this one solved. I wonder how valid Janice Knowlton's claims are about her father, George Knowlton as killer? I'm not one to discredit recovered memories, but I don't think we will ever know.
    I think Janice Knowlton was a very troubled woman....


  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcinea View Post
    I think Janice Knowlton was a very troubled woman....
    She was, but then again years of sexual and physical abuse will do that to a person. I feel sorry for her soul.
    "Tequila may not be the answer, but it's worth a shot."

    "I just go here!"

    "I am not psychic. I AM psychotic. BIG difference."


  13. #463
    qulevergrrl Guest
    The crazy thing is that they can do all of these forensic studies that go back hundreds of years, but they can't solve the Black Dahlia. Sorry, that sounds so crass.

  14. #464
    meclaudius Guest
    Well, without a body to re-examine and a crime scene to examine, it's difficult for anyone to figure it out. So, we can have all of the forensic knowledge that we want. But we still need something to go on.

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    I remember seeing a Cold Case Files show about the Black Dahlia hosted by Bill Curtis where he said that the original case files disappeared when the LAPD Detective in charge of the case retired. I bet that happened a lot back in the pre FOIA days.

    ETA: Man, you can't Google Black Dahlia without getting multiple hits for Steve and George Hodel. I still don't buy the pictures Hodel found in the scrapbook are her, but he's done an excellent job getting everyone to consider his dad to be the #1 suspect.
    Last edited by TheWrath of MadelineKahn; 07-14-2015 at 09:09 AM.
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    What a looker. Damn shame.

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    That looks like my old high school in the background.
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  19. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWrath of MadelineKahn View Post
    I remember seeing a Cold Case Files show about the Black Dahlia hosted by Bill Curtis where he said that the original case files disappeared when the LAPD Detective in charge of the case retired. I bet that happened a lot back in the pre FOIA days.

    ETA: Man, you can't Google Black Dahlia without getting multiple hits for Steve and George Hodel. I still don't buy the pictures Hodel found in the scrapbook are her, but he's done an excellent job getting everyone to consider his dad to be the #1 suspect.

    I don't believe Hodel killed her. I just don't.
    "Tequila may not be the answer, but it's worth a shot."

    "I just go here!"

    "I am not psychic. I AM psychotic. BIG difference."


  20. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaBrown View Post
    I don't believe Hodel killed her. I just don't.
    I don't either. I think it was a serial killer.
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  21. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    I don't either. I think it was a serial killer.
    In that regard, I found this rather interesting, though the author cites a "fact" that turned out not to be true (Elizabeth Short and Georgia Bauerdorf could never have met-- Elizabeth did not arrive in LA until 2 years after Georgia's murder and the latter's killing was more "conventional" if one could call it that) and an allegation that Ms. Short visited Chicago claiming to be a reporter covering the Suzanne Degnan case. The possibility of a connection between the Cleveland Torso Murders and the Black Dahlia case, indeed a seeming rash of similar murders in the late 1940s, vis-a-vis the travels of the late Jack Anderson Wilson, may rest on firmer ground. Possibly, perhaps.

    (Akin to relating all those mysterious axe murders of the early 1910s.)

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    Last edited by Linnie; 05-23-2016 at 04:55 PM.

  22. #472
    Dr. John Watson Guest
    Does anyone know whether the official autopsy report on Elizabeth Short has ever been released to the public? Over the years, many writers and true crime researchers have requested a copy, but the Los Angeles Police Department has always denied these requests stating the case is still open! Surely by now, the killer is long dead and no harm could possibly be caused by its release.

  23. #473
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    I couldn't find anything on it. However, the so-called non-fiction book Severed by John Gilmore supposedly goes into the report, but you've probably already read it.
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  24. #474
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    There IS one autopsy PHOTO, though not the autopsy report itself. There are tons of crime scene photos that everyone has seen, though.

    http://www.franksreelreviews.com/sho...ath-photos.htm
    "Tequila may not be the answer, but it's worth a shot."

    "I just go here!"

    "I am not psychic. I AM psychotic. BIG difference."


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    Last edited by cindyt; 11-03-2016 at 12:07 AM.
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  27. #477
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    Today (1-15-17) is the 70th anniversary of Elizabeth Short's death. Any new theories out there? RIP Betty.
    Wanna see my grandkids?

  28. #478
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    Rest in peace Betty, Hope one day we will know who killed you.

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    Rest in Peace

  30. #480
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    I searched this whole thread and can't believe no one posted a pic of her grave after all of these years. I guess I get to be the first. I was just out there last week. I put the gardenia on her grave (along with the sticker, of course!)



    Then a friend and I went back to the gravesite a few days later and had a picnic near her grave and this is what it looked like then (this was 3 days later!)

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    Last edited by Aries65; 03-26-2017 at 09:40 PM.

  31. #481
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    Thanks for sharing.
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  32. #482
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    Did you get the legs and breasts bucket?
    Stay in Drugs. Eat your School. Don't do Vegetables.

  33. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    Did you get the legs and breasts bucket?
    We ate legs and thighs! LOL

  34. #484
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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-new-book.html

    An interesting read. Definitely looking into it more. I’ve never seen those post mortem face shots before.
    What do ya’ll think?

  35. #485
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    Never seen those pics either. Wonder if they're fake.
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  36. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Never seen those pics either. Wonder if they're fake.
    Her hair looks really short in the new pics. Weird.

    It's an interesting theory.

    In the article it says Mark Hansen's name was on the cover of her address book. This same book, IIRC, had several pages cut out.
    What are the odds it would have been sent to the Police with Hansen's name on it, if he was involved with her killing?
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  37. #487
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    I don't think that's her. I've seen the pics of her on the autopsy table and her face wasn't that battered.
    "Tequila may not be the answer, but it's worth a shot."

    "I just go here!"

    "I am not psychic. I AM psychotic. BIG difference."


  38. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaBrown View Post
    I don't think that's her. I've seen the pics of her on the autopsy table and her face wasn't that battered.
    It does not look like her. I don't think it would be Mia Kirshner from the 2006 film, I'll have to get it out and check.
    Today you could be standing next to someone who is trying their best not to fall apart. So whatever you do today, do it with kindness.

  39. #489
    navallint Guest
    Did anyone else know about the bloody motel room? Never heard about it.

  40. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiaBrown View Post
    I don't think that's her. I've seen the pics of her on the autopsy table and her face wasn't that battered.
    I agree Ria.

    It is good reading soaring_butterfly. I don't think I have seen that swimsuit type photo of her before.

  41. #491
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    IIRC the bloody hotel room was in Severed by John Gilmore. I have always believed she was the victim of a serial killer.
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  42. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mansfield67 View Post
    It does not look like her. I don't think it would be Mia Kirshner from the 2006 film, I'll have to get it out and check.
    IIRC, her eyes were partially open as well and the cut across her mouth was more severe than in the pictures shown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shellc View Post
    IIRC, her eyes were partially open as well and the cut across her mouth was more severe than in the pictures shown.
    To me, the new pics appear to be after some suturing on the face. But would that have been done by a medical examiner either in the 1940s or now?
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  44. #494
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    They are not from the film, so I will say they are fake. The torso that was used in the film sold for $3000 in 2009. Creepy ! http://www.icollector.com/Screen-use...ahlia_i8632867
    Today you could be standing next to someone who is trying their best not to fall apart. So whatever you do today, do it with kindness.

  45. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by shellc View Post
    IIRC, her eyes were partially open as well and the cut across her mouth was more severe than in the pictures shown.
    You are right.
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  46. #496
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    You can google her morgue photo, Those photos in the post could be after they cleaned her up, washed her hair and did some work on her face, but who know, they could also be fake.
    Last edited by pkstracy; 10-31-2017 at 10:53 AM.

  47. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mansfield67 View Post
    They are not from the film, so I will say they are fake. The torso that was used in the film sold for $3000 in 2009. Creepy ! http://www.icollector.com/Screen-use...ahlia_i8632867
    Whoa - the things you could do with that torso!
    Happy Halloween, y'all.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  48. #498
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    If you all haven't read The Black Dahlia Files, pretty convincing of who killed her, I believe that one over any book I have ever read, The author has files from the FBI that he got to look at, and he knew a lot of the people, both he and John Gilmore touched on one of the killers, the author of The Black Dahlia files does a pretty good job of tying it all on Bugsy Siegel and a few of his men, also states that He believes Elizabeth Short was pregnant, and that someone was Norman Chandler, who was an acquantice of Bugsy, he feels Norman had her killed when she refused or didn't go through the abortion, and he was worried she would come out and spill the beans or try to blackmail him for money, there is a control question in the autopsy that hasn't been released people for years thought it was because her genitals weren't fully developed, but in the book the person that stated that, later came out and said he only said it to throw people off and for shock value, no one knows what the control question is to this day as her autopsy is sealed and won't be released to the public. She had a bunch of names of illegal abortionist, and there is record of her going into a doctor's office looking for the one doctor that was a known one.




    Last edited by pkstracy; 11-07-2017 at 11:15 PM.

  49. #499
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    Interesting.

    If Siegel "had it done"; then I wonder why the brutality.
    Seems like the mob-style guys would have been more prone to just shoot her and dump her; just speculating.

    I love those two street photos - I guess the folks living there today can't help but know what happened there.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.



  50. #500
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    Jim, Bugsy was known to slash his victims with a knife, and the lot that she was dumped near was very close to where a mobster name Dragna lived, he and Bugsy were rivals, the author of The Black Dahlia files thinks that Maurice Clemments(Sp) was the man that would come pay Elizabeth's rent, and picked her up a few times, he also feels that he was the man that was seen by the boy near the lot hours before Beth's body was dumped, Maurice was known to be part of Bugsy's gang, he feels that Maurice picked up Elizabeth from the Hotel where she was last seen and driven to the place she was killed, she was beaten, tortured for hours, the author claims that two cops were called to the scene, and walked in and saw blood, they said they saw Bugsy, Maurice, another guy and one of the known abortionist, they were handed a police courtesy card with their higher ups number on the back when one of them called it they were told to walk away and leave it alone.

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