Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 200 of 307

Thread: Lizzie Borden gave her mother 40 whacks?

  1. #151
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Azusa, California
    Posts
    8,204
    Elsie Borden rocks the Casbah...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mintgiver View Post
    I put this in the Random Pictures thread, but I thought everyone reading here would find this funny. OT- the character of Elsie Borden from the milk cans is married to Elmer the bull from the glue bottles!


  2. #152
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    397
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrocker99 View Post
    I think she did it and believe me I can understand....I have been "menstruating" and wanted to kill many people with a hatchet!
    LOLOLOLOLOLOL...... OMG you just made my day! That was brilliant.
    I know exactly how u feel.... And think about this... They had NO pain relievers back then either... Holy sh** those poor women.
    Last edited by LaynesGirl; 09-27-2008 at 07:05 PM.
    I wish I could just hug you all... But I'm not gonna! Layne Staley (Unplugged and perfect)

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    397
    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine74137 View Post
    Their family seemed very odd, paging VC Andrews.
    YEAH...You are so right! Flowers in the Attic.... Totally. I loved reading VC Andrews.
    I wish I could just hug you all... But I'm not gonna! Layne Staley (Unplugged and perfect)

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    15,117
    Quote Originally Posted by LaynesGirl View Post
    YEAH...You are so right! Flowers in the Attic.... Totally. I loved reading VC Andrews.
    Me too. Loved the Flowers in the Attic series

  5. #155
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX.
    Posts
    3,049
    Quote Originally Posted by theotherlondon View Post
    I always thought her sister Emma killed them and Lizzie
    was covering up for her.
    Me too!!!!

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    806
    Quote Originally Posted by duster View Post
    Wasn't there something about Lizzie and the maid being lesbian lovers? The theory (if I'm remembering this correctly and I may not be) was that they wanted both stepmom and dad out of the way so they could carry on their affair, in the house, without any recriminations AND get the money too!

    On the other hand, if they really did do it, why didn't anyone ever find any bloody clothes?

    She hid the dress inside another dress in her closet.

    Men looked through her things, and would not have thought to inspect UNDER the clothes. They were only looking for blood.

    That's my theory anyway.
    "Fate is like a strange, unpopular restaurant, filled with odd waiters who bring you things you never asked for and don't always like."

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    NoVa
    Posts
    5,181
    She did it.
    .
    .
    "So, what, no fuckin' ziti now?"

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6
    I firmly believe she did it. All the evidence points that way.

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,247
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrocker99 View Post
    I think she did it and believe me I can understand....I have been "menstruating" and wanted to kill many people with a hatchet!
    LOL! OMGEeeee!! That was a good one! And very acceptable!
    My Posse's On Broadway

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    in the lily pads
    Posts
    2,659
    I thought her father was going to divie up his will before he died and her and her sister would get nothing...
    hurt an animal and I will kill you

  11. #161
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,730
    Quote Originally Posted by IrishBabe View Post
    She hid the dress inside another dress in her closet.

    Men looked through her things, and would not have thought to inspect UNDER the clothes. They were only looking for blood.

    That's my theory anyway.
    I thought she burned the bloody clothes?
    At least that is what she did in the movie.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522
    Interesting historical documentation relating to the trial of Lizzie Borden:

    The Indictment

    Prosecution Witness Testimony

    Testimony of Dr. William Dolan in the Trial of Lizzie Borden
    June 12-13, 1893

    I have practiced medicine in Fall River for eleven years; received my education in the medical department of the University of Pennsylvania. I have been in general practice, with probably more surgery than medicine. Have had several cases of fracture of the skull. Have been medical examiner for Bristol County for two years; for one year, when these murders took place. Arrived at the Borden house about 11:45 A.M. Noted the striking of the city hall clock at twelve, and had then been in the house ten to fifteen minutes. Saw Charles Sawyer at the door; Dr Bowen, Bridget, Mr. Morse, Mrs. Churchill, Miss Russell, and several officers.

    Had a brief talk later in the day with Miss Lizzie Borden in her room. Asked her what it was about that note Mrs. Borden was said to have received, and she said Mrs. Borden had received a note to go and see somebody that was sick. Asked her where the note was. She said she didn't know. She said that probably Mrs. Borden had burned it in the kitchen stove. That is all I remember of our talk. When I entered the house, I went into the kitchen and then to the sitting room. The body of Mr. Borden was lying on the sofa. Sofa was against the north wall of the room, running east and west, with the head towards the parlor and the feet towards the kitchen, that is, towards the east. The sofa was against the jamb of the dining-room door. The body was covered with a sheet. Dr Bowen was with me. I found that Mr. Borden's hand was warm; the blood was oozing from his wounds and was bright red in color. The head was resting on a sofa cushion that had a little white tidy on it. The cushion, I think, rested on his coat, which had been doubled up and put under there. And the coat, in turn, rested on an afghan or sofa cover. I made no particular examination of the wounds then; only stayed two or three minutes; went upstairs to see Mrs. Borden. She was lying between the dressing case and the bed. I touched the body, noted the wounds on the back of her head; noted that her blood was coagulated and of a dark color. She was lying with her back exposed; her hands were nearer the wall than her head; they were not clasped. The upper part of her dress, the waist, was bloody. I found an old silk handkerchief there and took it with me. It was nearer the wall than the head. It was not cut, but it was bloodstained. [Witness identifies the handkerchief.] I was there, examining the body, for only two or three minutes. When I saw Mr. Borden I had a clinical thermometer with me, but I did not use it. At Mr. Borden's head, the blood was dripping on the carpet underneath. There were two blood spots on the carpet, about eight or ten inches in diameter.

    Turning back to Mrs. Borden's body, I felt of that with my hand; touched her head and hand; it was much colder than that of Mr. Borden. Did not use thermometer. Her blood on the head was matted and practically dry. There was no oozing from it, as in Mr. Borden's. I returned downstairs and made a more careful observation of Mr. Borden's wounds. At that time I counted from eight to ten; I made a more accurate examination later. He was clad in a cardigan-a woolen-jacket, black vest, black trousers and a pair of Congress shoes. He had a watch and pocketbook; the money in the pocketbook amounted to [referring to notes] $81.65-four ten-dollar bills; five fives; one two-dollar bill; eleven ones; and in his pocket, two fifty-cent pieces; three twenty-five cent pieces; six tens; five five-cent pieces; and five copper cents. He wore a ring, I think a gold ring on his left hand. Went upstairs again, and with Dr Bowen's assistance lifted Mrs. Borden's body sufficiently to make a preliminary count of her wounds; then collected from Bridget a sample of the morning's milk and of yesterday's milk; sealed them and later sent them to Professor Wood. Went to the cellar; saw two axes and two hatchets; took the heavy claw-hammered one and put it with the cans of milk. Returned to the house that afternoon and had the rooms and the two bodies photographed.

    I removed the stomachs from both bodies; tying each at both ends, and putting each into a clean jar which was sealed, labeled and, with the two jars of milk, sent by express to Professor Wood.

    Next day I examined with a magnifying glass the two hatchets at the city marshal's office. Found two hairs on one of them; put them on a piece of paper, then in an envelope and delivered them to Professor Wood. There were spots on the axes that looked like blood, or rust. I also delivered hatchets and axes to Professor Wood.

    On August 11, at the Oak Grove Cemetery, we made a thorough autopsy. Present were Dr Francis W. Draper of Boston, and Drs Cone and Leary of Fall River. Examined every organ of Mr. Borden's body; found them in healthy condition.

    The wounds in the head were the cause of death; we made an examination of them.

    A plaster cast of a head, upon which the position of the wounds was marked in blue, was produced and handed to the witness.

    Q. We will take the head of Andrew J. Borden first. Is this the cast that you used to illustrate the wounds on Mr. Borden?
    A. Yes.

    Q. How many wounds did you find on his head?
    A. Ten on the fleshy part.

    Q. And what was the condition, generally speaking, of the skull of Mr. Borden as to being crushed in?
    A. From in front of the ear, commencing about 1 1/2 inches in front of the ear, to probably 1 1/2 inches behind the ear, the bone was all crushed in.

    Q. [Placing cast on its side on the rail in front of the stenographer's table] Now if you will let me rest it here. Now, then, go on and describe in detail the wounds that you found upon his head?

    The witness left the stand and took a position beside counsel to point out the position of the wounds upon the plaster cast.

    A. In taking this wound and counting that No. I-I do not mean to say that that is the first wound that is given, I simply take it to have some commencing point-this wound started in what we call the left nasal bone, that is, the left nose bone, and extended down through the fleshy part of the side of the nose, over the upper lip and the lower lip and chin, and cut slightly into the bone. That wound was 4 inches long.

    Q. And how deep?
    A. Well, cutting slightly into the bone. The other wound started here, at the angle of the eye-this is all the left side -commenced here at the angle of the eye and cut down through the flesh, down past the angle of the mouth and into the chin, and also cut slightly into the bone. That one was 4 1/2 inches long. That wound here over the eye-over the left eye, 2 inches above the left eyebrow-was a glancing wound, starting here and cutting out a piece of bone the size that you see marked there, cutting it right out from the skull. That is the wound there. This next wound ran into that, came down through the eye, and cut the eye completely in half and cut through the cheekbone, severing it, and ended just below the cheekbone. That wound was 4 1/2 inches long.

    The next commenced about 2 1/2 inches above the eyebrow and to the outside of it. That one was 2 inches, cutting into the skull. The next was 1 inch to the left, and 1/2 inch long; it simply left its mark in the bone. The others went through into the brain. The two directly in front of the ear, and separated by about 1/2 inch, were 4 and 4 1/2 inches respectively, or 2 inches. One was 2 inches and the other 4 inches. The last one was 2 inches—that is, directly above the ear.

    There were also some wounds that showed in the skull, but not in the fleshy part, possibly by the hatchet going into the same cuts, but not exactly underneath on the bone. There were no wounds on the body except those on the head.

    Q. Which of them crushed the skull?
    A. Those last four, and this one, of course, cut into the skull in front.

    Q. Did you afterwards remove the skull?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And removed the flesh from the bone?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And you have it in your possession?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. What is the process of removing the flesh from the bone? I will ask you this question. Perhaps my friends will know the reason I ask it in the form I do just now. What is the process of removing the flesh from the bone? Does it in any way affect the integrity of the bone?
    A. No sir.

    Q. What is the thickness of the skull at the point where those four wounds went through into the brain?
    A. About one sixteenth of an inch.

    Q. Is it comparatively speaking a thin skull or not?
    A. It is, yes.

    Q. What is the thickness of that part of the skull in proportion to the rest of the skull?
    A. I think the skull on top is a quarter of an inch.

    Q. Which is the thinnest place on the skull?
    A. Just this region, the temple region.

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Big D, Texas
    Posts
    1,470
    Elizabeth Montgomery did it....

    .

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522
    Testimony continued:

    At the same time, we made an examination of the intestines. The upper part of Mr. Borden's intestines was comparatively empty. In the upper part of Mrs. Borden's intestines was some undigested food. On Mrs. Borden's body there was one wound on the back-at the juncture of the neck with the body, the lower part over the spine, and the upper part running upwards and downwards for 2 1/2 inches. All the other wounds were on the head. There were three contusions on the face: two over the left eye, and one just over the bridge of the nose. The right side of Mrs. Borden's head was crushed in; there was a hole there, 1 1/2 by 5 1/2 inches. There was a scalp wound on the left side of the face; a flap wound, where the flesh was cut off, but not separated from the head; it was 2 inches long by 1 1/2 inch wide. On the left side of the middle line of the head, there were four wounds. Three of them went into the skull, one taking apiece right out of the skull. Two wounds simply left imprints on the head. Many of the wounds crushed through into the brain. They varied from 1/2 inch to 5 inches long. Altogether, eighteen wounds on her head. With Mr. Seaver, I made a memorandum of the blood spots in the house. In the guest room there was one spot on the north wall 9 inches from the window and 2 1/2 inches from the floor. There was one spot 5 inches west of the dressing case and 16 1/2 inches from the floor. There were about fifteen spots on one of the marbles of the dressing table. On the lower part of the dressing table about fifty spots; fifteen spots on the mirror. On the east wall seven spots. Downstairs in the sitting room, there was one, 3 feet 2 inches from the jamb of the dining-room door; the highest on the wall was 6 ft. 1 3/4 inches from the floor. Back of the lounge, in a space 18 by 10 inches, there were eighty-six spots describing the arc of a circle. There were seven spots on the parlor door and three on the parlor-door jamb. There were forty spots on the picture and frame that hung over the lounge.

    I removed the skull of Mrs. Borden also, and prepared it in the same way, and also without interfering with the integrity of the bone. It is slightly thicker than Mr. Borden's. Where the skull was crushed in, it is not over 1/8 inch thick. The wounds in her skull were made with some sharp cutting instrument, possibly a hatchet. I should say that a hatchet would be consistent with the nature of her wounds.

    Q. In your opinion were the wounds that you found upon the skull of Mr. Borden such as could have been inflicted with a hatchet by a woman of ordinary strength?
    A. Yes sir.

    Taking all circumstances into consideration, including the condition of the blood and the heat of the bodies-everything that came to my attention during the examination on Thursday, the day of the murders-I formed the opinion that Mrs. Borden died first. I should say from 1 1/2 to 2 hours, or from 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours.

    And, further, assuming that these two persons ate at the same time before they were killed, and considering the conditions disclosed in the intestines of both, I conclude that digestion had ceased in Mr. Borden, and was still going on in Mrs. Borden. And, therefore, that she had died first. These conditions support the opinion I have already given.

    CROSS-EXAMINATION

    Q. [By Mr. Adams] I do not understand, Doctor, that you received any message to take you to this house on the day of the tragedy?
    A. No sir.

    Q. But you were driving to your patients and going by this house?
    A. That is it; yes sir.

    Q. And saw something, which led you to get out and go in?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And you fix the time when you got there as near or a trifle before twelve o'clock?
    A. Quarter of twelve, about; yes sir.

    Q. Would you insist on its being exactly fifteen minutes of twelve?
    A. No sir; not exactly, I would not.

    Q. It might be five minutes later?
    A. Possibly it might have been that time.

    Q. Haven't you said that you were calling upon a patient upon Third or Fourth Street, and you got there about 11:40 and stayed three or four minutes, and then drove around?
    A. No sir; not as late as that, I don't think.

    When I went into the guest chamber to view Mrs. Borden's body, the room surely was not dark. The shutter on the north window was open. I did not know then that Patrolman Doherty had lifted the body. I know it now. I did not know that Dr Bowen had pulled out her right hand and felt of the wrist. I know it now. I did not know that Doherty had moved the bed, and I do not know it now. When I later measured the distance between the bed and the dressing table, where the body lay, I found it to be 37 inches. I did not tell you it was 2 feet or 2 feet 10 inches: I said a foot on either side of the body. There was enough room for a person to go between her and the bed.

    MR. ADAMS read from the testimony of Dr Dolan at the preliminary examination, as follows:

    Q. In your opinion, would that hatchet that you saw furnish an adequate cause of these incised wounds?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. The wounds in both cases?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Now did you say that?
    A. I said it if it is there; yes sir.

    Q. Didn't I then have, or didn't you have in front of you, this hatchet with the claw head?
    A. I don't know as to the presence of the hatchet, sir.

    Q. At all events, it referred to that hatchet, didn't it?
    A. Yes sir, it referred to that.

    Q. Do you desire to change that opinion now?
    A. I do; yes sir.

    Q. In what respect?
    A. That is, providing the cutting edge of that axe is a certain distance-a certain length.

    Q. Hadn't you measured it at that time?
    A. No sir, I had not.

    Q. Have you measured it since?
    A. No sir.

    Q. Do you know what it is now?
    A. I should judge about 4 1/2 inches by looking at it; I don't know.

    Q. Were there any injuries upon the heads of either of these people that were more than 4 1/2 inches long?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. On Mr. Borden there was one four and a half plus, wasn't there?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And on Mrs. Borden there was one five inches, wasn't there?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Wouldn't this hatchet then, adequately cause those?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And would the injuries that you found there, other than these two, not have been adequately caused by a cut from this instrument or one like it which did not meet the skull along the whole cutting edge?
    A. State that again, please.

    MR. ADAMS. I will let the stenographer read it; I don't think I can state it just the same again.

    The stenographer read the question.
    The WITNESS. I don't understand the question now.
    The question was read again.

    MR. KNOWLTON. I submit whether the questioner himself understands the question.

    MR. ADAMS. I do. I understood one of yours a little while ago, that you had trouble about understanding yourself.

    Q. Well, do you understand the question now?
    A. If I may be permitted to state what I think the question is?

    Q. Well, go on.
    A. In other words, could the hatchet that made the other wounds on that head produce those two? Is that the substance of it?

    Q. Yes sir.
    A. It could.

    Q. Did you subsequently have authority from the law officers of the state to make the second view, or attempt at an autopsy, or whatever it may be called?
    A. I don't understand what you mean by "attempt at an autopsy."

    Q. Or the completion of the autopsy.
    A. If you mean the autopsy at Oak Grove Cemetery, yes sir.

    Q. That was on the 11th day of August, the day the defendant was arrested, was it not?
    A. I could nt say as to the arrest.

    Q. At all events, it was on the eleventh of August?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And the Oak Grove Cemetery contains the family lot of this family?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Where the bodies had been taken for interment?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. At that time did you remove something from the bodies?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. You removed the skulls, the heads, didn't you?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Did you notify these daughters, or any of them, that you were about to do it?
    A. No sir.

    Q. Did you notify anyone that you were about to do it, or cause that to be done?
    A. No sir.

    Q. When they were interred, did you give any information to them that the interment took place under such circumstances?
    A. I did not.

    Q. This second, or the Oak Grove autopsy, revealed to you some other appearances that you had not discovered in the first one, did it?
    A. Yes sir.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    toronto, canada ( Etobicoke)
    Posts
    4,171
    I just read John Douglas' book THE CASES THAT HAUNT US - he examined this case and came to the conclusion that Lizzie was guilty as hell.

    He also said the Ramseys were innocent.

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522
    Testimony continued:

    Q. It revealed among other things, the blow in the back of Mrs. Borden?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Where was the assailant standing, in your opinion, when that blow was given?
    A. In the rear.

    Q. There was a flap cut here? [Indicating on forehead
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. When that blow was given, where in your opinion did the assailant stand?
    A. In front, facing the assaulted.

    Q. That is, the assailant and assaulted faced each other?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Did you entertain the opinion that the bruises and contusions found on the forehead of Mrs. Borden were caused in any other way than by falling?
    A. No sir.

    Q. How many different marks, indicating separate blows, did you find on the head of Mrs. Borden?
    A. Eighteen.

    Q. Did Dr Frank W. Draper, of Boston, assist you in this Oak Grove autopsy?
    A. He did.

    Q. With the wound on the back there would be nineteen cutting injuries, which indicated so many separate blows?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Now when these hatchets were seen by you and some of them were taken by you, did you then from your examination with a magnifying glass express the opinion that there was blood upon them?
    A. No sir.

    Q. You simply said, did you, that there were appearances that looked like blood?
    A. Yes sir. If you will allow me I will make that statement.

    Q. What statement?
    A. About the hatchet. It has been ascribed to me that I swore that that hatchet was covered with blood.

    MR. KNOWLTON. I object to that statement.

    MR. ADAMS. It is your own witness.

    MR. KNOWLTON. I object to the statement.

    MR. ADAMS. [To the witness] You see that the counsel for the Government objects. While I have no objection, I doubt if you can go on.

    Q. Did you at that time, namely, the time when these hatchets were seen by you in the cellar and handled by you, have the opinion that there was human hair on anyone of them?
    A. Not in the cellar.

    Q. Anywhere?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Did you at the marshal's office?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Do you entertain that opinion now?
    A. No sir.

    Q. Did you at that time have any opinion with reference to the condition of the samples of the milk that were obtained?
    A. As to what?

    Q. As to there being any foreign and poisonous substance in them?
    A. I had no opinion on them.

    At 5.00 P.M. the Court adjourned to Tuesday morning, June 13th, at nine o'clock.

    New Bedford, June 13th, 1893.

    CROSS-EXAMINATION, resumed

    Q. Have you an opinion as to where the assailant of Mr. Borden stood, taking into account the spots, which you saw?
    A. I have.

    Q. From the appearance of things, where did the assailant stand?
    A. Stood close behind the head of the lounge, that is, between the parlor door and the head of the lounge.

    Q. You no longer, if you have ever put him there, make him stand in the dining-room door?
    A. I never put him there.

    Q. Did you ever have an opinion that one or more of these blows might have been given by a person reaching around the jamb of the dining-room door and striking the head?
    A. Well, to stand even behind the dining-room door you would not have to reach around.

    Q. You think the assailant swung the instrument from left to right, don't you?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And all those wounds can be fairly accounted for by blows from left to right?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. That is to say, it is a left-handed blow?
    A. In what sense left-handed; delivered by the left hand?

    Q. That it strikes the body in a left-handed direction-from left to right.
    A. Yes sir, to a certain extent. Those that are most markedly from left to right are those that would come down directly as the head lies there now, and give the direction of a left-handed blow.

    Q. And those blows made quite as severe injuries as any?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And the strongest left-handed blow, in your opinion, was the blow upon the eyebrow where that bone was chipped out?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. In your opinion, would a strong and crushing blow not have been necessary to have made that?
    A. No sir.

    Q. A light blow, in your opinion, could have done that?
    A. Not a light blow; no sir.

    Q. A fairly strong blow?
    A. Yes sir.


    Q. Was it a one-handed or a two-handed blow, in your opinion?
    A. I could not tell you.

    Q. Have you any opinion about that?
    A. I think one-handed could do it.

    Q. Assuming that the carotid artery (which is the artery running up through the neck, here, and under the angle of the jaw) had been cut, would there be a large flow of blood?
    A. It depends upon where it was cut, sir.

    Q. Suppose it was the interior one; there are two of them, I believe, or two branches.
    A. Even then it would depend upon where.

    Q. Well, supposing it was cut near the angle of the jaw, would there be a large flow of blood immediately?
    A. There would, immediately; a very large flow of blood.

    Q. And if the assailant, using the instrument, which you have described, or a similar one, had cut that, would not it have been natural that the assailant would have been covered with blood or would have been spattered and sprinkled with blood?
    A. Not necessarily.

    Q. How do you explain that they would not have been?
    A. Because it would not spurt in that direction.

    Q. In what direction?
    A. In the direction of the assailant.


    Q. But when the hatchet goes into the wound, doesn't it get covered with blood, particularly the edge of it?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And when it is covered with blood, which is fresh and warm, isn't it liable to come off in a swinging blow?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And isn't that liable to strike the assailant somewhere as he swings his blow from front to rear and rear to front?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And wouldn't you say it would be probable that the assailant would be covered with blood or have spatters upon him?
    A. He would have spatters; yes sir.

    Q. And in what part of the body, in the case of Mr. Borden, would these spatters come?
    A. The upper part.

    Q. That is, the head, the breast?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Would the hands be liable to be spotted or spattered?
    A. They might.

    Q. Would not it be probable?
    A. Probable.

    After an extended cross-examination as to the position of Mrs. Borden's body, the direction of the blows and the location of the blood spots, the examiner reached this question].

    Q. Now taking the position of Mrs. Borden, the pillow shams, the bed spreads, the spots on the pillow sham, mirror and baseboard, where, in your opinion, did the assailant stand when inflicting this injury?
    A. Astride the body.

    Q. Did you say at the time when you got to the house how long in your opinion Mrs. Borden had been dead?
    A. Did I say so then?

    Q. Yes.
    A. I have no recollection, sir.

    Q. Is your opinion about the time of her death based upon what you saw there on Thursday?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Well, haven't you said that in your opinion she died about an hour and a half before the time you saw her?
    A. I don't know whether I said it that way or whether I said an hour and a half before Mr. Borden. I am not sure, sir.

    Q. But your opinion which you formed was made up of the appearances which you saw on Thursday?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Didn't you testify about that at the other hearing in Fall River?
    A. In what particulars?

    Q. As to the time of her death.
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Don't you recall that you said there that in your opinion she died about an hour and a half before the time that you saw her body at the house?
    A. As I say, I am not sure of making it that way.

    Q. Let me read to you and see if this is what you said, page 105:

    "From what you saw, and all you saw, did you form any opinion as to how long she had been dead when you found her?" Answer: "I couldn't say exactly how long she had been dead, but it was my impression she was dead anywhere from an hour to an hour and a half when I saw her."

    Q. Did you say that?
    A. I said it if it is there; yes sir.

    Q. And you saw her in the vicinity of twelve o'clock?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. So that the opinion which you formed then was that she died somewhere from half-past ten to eleven o'clock.
    A. According to that statement, yes sir.

    Q. Well, wasn't that statement your opinion?
    A. Yes sir; at that time.

    Q. Didn't you say you formed your opinion from what you saw at that time?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Do you desire to change that opinion now?
    A. I don't know that I desire to change it, except that-since it is there of course I said that, but I hadn't the impression that I said it, just as I told you I hadn't the impression that I said it was from the time I saw her or from the contrasting of the deaths of the two bodies.

    Q. What would you say now?
    A. I will say, taking everything into consideration, what I saw then and what I have learned since by examination, that the difference between the deaths of the two bodies would be from an hour to an hour and a half.

    Q. What other factor comes into your opinion?
    A. The difference in the warmth of the bodies.

    Q. Well, what is the common period of time assigned for the cooling of the body?
    A. Well, anywhere from ten to twenty-four hours.

    Q. Take the body of Mrs. Borden, who was a woman 60 odd years of age, weighing about 200 pounds, how long at that time do you think it would take for her body to cool, to become cold?
    A. I don't know. Of course the external temperature would have something to do with it, but I am not prepared to say how long it would take for her body that particular day. As I say, all normal bodies differ very much in length of time.

    Q. Can you give me any opinion as to the length of time?
    A. I could not; no sir.

    Q. Would there be any difference in the time between her body and Mr. Borden's, assuming both died at the same instant?
    A. There would; yes sir.

    Q. What difference would there be?
    A. The difference would be that hers would be warmer than Mr. Borden's.


    Q. That is to say, hers would be warm longer than his?
    A. Be warm longer than his and warmer than his.

    Q. Was there some other factor, the factor of digestion that came into your opinion?
    A. Yes sir.

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cheesehead Country
    Posts
    2,435
    Lizzy and I share a birthday!
    "Deal with the world like you are shopping at a garage sale- Calmly sift through the crap with a smile! Only buy what you need!" ~ Donnie Wahlberg Words of Wisdom

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522
    Testimony continued:

    Q. And from that condition of body which is followed by summer sickness.
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Under those circumstances would not food naturally pass from the stomach into the upper intestine without being fully digested?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. If the person was in that condition could you safely express any opinion as to the length of time that the meal was taken before you saw the upper intestine?
    A. No sir, not safely.

    Q. That is, you couldn't form an opinion within some half hour or an hour, could you, of the time of the meal?
    A. I hardly think you could.

    Q. In other words, if a person had eaten breakfast at seven o'clock in the morning, and a day or two days before that had been ill and vomited up her food that day, and after breakfast at some time you found her dead with some undigested food in the lower intestine, could you tell from that fact alone, knowing also that they had been ill, how long before that they had eaten their morning meal?
    A. Not accurately, no sir.

    Q. I mean within half an hour or an hour?
    A. I don't think so.

    Q. Well then, isn't the opinion, which you give as to how long before Mr. Borden died, Mrs. Borden died, one of speculation largely?
    A. No sir. You mean, as far as the intestine is concerned?

    Q. Yes.
    A. It is not as marked, of course, as the temperature and the condition of the blood.

    Q. On digestion alone how far will you go as to the difference of time in the death of Mr. and Mrs. Borden?
    A. Well, knowing that they had partaken of the same food, and knowing that both had been ill to a certain extent, and

    Q. I am allowing you to answer, although you put in things that I did not put into my question. Go on.
    A. I have to do that to make up my result.

    Q. Go on.
    A. And finding nothing in the upper bowel of one and something in the upper bowel of the other, I think it makes the thing equal; that is, their having eaten at the same time, and their having both been ill at the same time, I think it takes away considerable of the force of your question: could I tell by the intestines of Mrs. Borden that she had had breakfast within half an hour or an hour, that is, within half an hour or an hour's time. Taking those things into consideration, I think that it is not speculation to say that by her intestines you could say that digestion was still going on.

    Q. I think my question was, within what period of time you would dare to give an opinion based upon the digestive appearances alone?
    A. I misunderstood you. I thought you said was it speculation.

    Q. Well, will you answer that question? I asked you before that about speculation. Will you answer that question?
    A. I wouldn't say within half an hour, no sir.

    Q. Assuming that one had been more ill than the other, that one had had a severer attack than the other, would it make any difference in that digestion?
    A. It would, yes sir.

    Q. And would that interfere with the expression of an opinion with reasonable accuracy as to the length of time?
    A. It would, yes sir.

    Q. Assuming that was the fact would you then fix the limit as more than half an hour?
    A. No sir.

    Q. You would still stick to your opinion that you could determine within half an hour the difference in time?
    A. No sir, I would not.

    Q. And I understand you to have already told me upon the coagulation of blood, you wouldn't dare after fifteen minutes to express an opinion, within fifteen minutes or half an hour as to the difference of time?
    A. No sir, not to swear to it, I wouldn't.

    Q. So that you have nothing left but the temperature of the body?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And that is tested simply by touch?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. I neglected to ask you one question. When I was inquiring about the position of the assailant of Mrs. Borden, you told me, I think, that in your opinion the assailant stood astride of the body and over it. If in that attitude the assailant stood, would there be a general spattering of blood over his body?
    A. I don't know whether there would be a general one over the entire body. I think there would be surely some on the lower part of the body.

    RE-DIRECT

    Q. Something has been said, Doctor, about the capacity and different sizes of the hatchets, which inflicted the wounds, in respect to the length of them. You have testified, as I understand it, if I am in error you will correct me that these wounds varied from half an inch to four or more in length?
    A. I have, yes sir.

    Q. Would those lengths of themselves afford any indication, the exterior length of the wounds, afford any indication of the size in respect to the length of the weapon, which inflicted them?
    A. I don't think so, no sir.

    Q. Why not?
    A. Simply that the coming down, taking the particular case, coming down on a hard surface they are liable to slide.

    Q. Is there anything in the length of the wounds, which is inconsistent with their having been inflicted by a weapon, for example, of three and one half inches in length?
    A. There is not, no sir.

    Q. And why so? Explain why. How could a three-and-one-half-inch hatchet make a two-inch wound, for example?
    A. Because the whole cutting edge wouldn't be brought into play at once.

    Q. That is, didn't go through?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. And how can a three-and-one-half-inch hatchet make a four-and-a-half-inch wound?
    A. By sliding and by also going in underneath, that is, crushing into.

    Q. And if it went, not vertically but at an angle, would that also have a tendency to make it?
    A. It would, yes sir.

    Q. You spoke of the food in the intestines as undigested?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. What portion of the food in the intestines of Mrs. Borden was undigested?
    A. I couldn't tell you that, sir.

    Q. Was there anything in the appearance of what you found in the small intestines to indicate that there had been anything abnormal or irregular or showing disease of any kind in the operation of digestion?
    A. No sir.

    Q. So far as that indicated anything at all, did it appear whether or not the digestion had been normal?
    A. It indicated nothing abnormal, no sir.

    Q. Now, you said that there were back of the lounge eighty-six [blood] spots describing the arc of a circle. When was the last time that you saw them?
    A. I couldn't tell you that, sir.

    Q. How long after the homicide?
    A. They were there; I think it was the 13th that I counted them.

    Q. The 13th of what?
    A. August.

    Q. You say [they] formed a sort of arch. Can you tell what, in your opinion, caused that, spattering or spurting?
    A. Spurting.

    Q. Spurting is the force of the heart, of the blood?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Spattering comes from contact of the instrument with the blood?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Or dropping from the hatchet?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. Did you find any other spurts besides those there that in your opinion formed that arch?
    A. I did not.

    RE-CROSS-EXAMINATION

    Q. [By Mr. Adams] From the appearance of an injury having various lengths like one, two, three, four or five inches you are hardly able to determine the length of the cutting edge giving them, are you?
    A. No sir.

    Q. Do the appearances disclosed by examination after death in reference to upper intestine aid you in forming any opinion at all about digestion?
    A. It does, yes sir.

    Q. Do you mean to say that indigestion is indicated by the appearance of the intestine itself?
    A. Of course if the intestine was inflamed.

    Q. Does inflammation indicate that a person has indigestion always?
    A. No sir.

    Q. In other words, one may have indigestion without inflammation of the intestine?
    A. Yes sir.

    Q. So that the appearance of the intestine would not necessarily help you in determining whether or not a person had poor digestion, or indigestion, not normal digestion?
    A. No sir.

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522

    Borden House


    Borden backyard and barn


    New Bedford court room


    Borden Trial Jurors

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522
    Key Figures


    Lizzie and Emma Borden


    Andrew J and Abby Borden

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522

    Bridget Sullivan


    John Morse


    District Attorney Hosea Knowlton

  22. #172
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX.
    Posts
    3,049
    I don't have time to go into all the details, but Emma was questioned about her and Lizzie's relationship with their stepmother Abby. Emma said Lizzie had gotten over the fact that her father had given her a house he formerly promised to the sisters, but she never had. (Even though he paid them it's value in cash.) I think it was their grandfather's house on Ferry St.
    Also when questioned about their "Waterproofs" (rain coats) all were accounted for EXCEPT Emma's!
    Visit my blog to read my memoir "Monster In The Closet".
    I welcome your coments and input.

    http://mymemoirmonsterinthecloset.blogspot.com/

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522

    J. Duthie, “The Village Elms Sunday Morning in New England”-circa 1878
    This is the print that was hung over the sofa in the sitting room of the Borden house



  24. #174
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522
    Various newspaper sketches:





  25. #175
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    522

    Letter to neighbor written by Lizzie Borden


    This old hatchet/axe was sold at fairs after the trial of Lizzie Borden, it was considered memorabilia for the era.
    Hatchet made and sold in 1911, printed on it is Lizzie and Meridian Fair 1911.


    She was a star of the American stage, mentor to the young Lionel and John Barrymore, and allegedly Lizzie Borden's lover.

  26. #176
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    3,251
    In a way a hatchet would be more difficult for a female killer. ranted Lizzie was a big girl but with a hatchet you lose the leverage of the long handle to pry it free quickly. I always like the Maid, Bridget for this crime.

  27. #177
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    "But it's a dry heat" South. California
    Posts
    2,768
    I would love to have that glass hatchet!

  28. #178
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Cornfield, Middle of Nowhere
    Posts
    1,193
    Quote Originally Posted by 1karenhb View Post
    I would love to have that glass hatchet!
    Same here. It would be a great conversational piece.

  29. #179
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    independence,mo
    Posts
    929
    may be the wrong thread for this, but i FINALLY saw miss bewitched herself in "the legend of lizzie borden" what a weird movie. The whole lizzie/andrew thing was a little uncomfortable to watch but overall it wasn't half bad. the ending would've been better if they hadn't actually shown her committing the murders. I guess if i was the director, I would've shown bridget or emma AND lizzie committing the murders that way the REAL verdict of guilt on lizzie was still questionable but that's just me. Hopefully it'll get re-made someday.

  30. #180
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX.
    Posts
    3,049
    Quote Originally Posted by Omerta View Post
    Key Figures



    Lizzie and Emma Borden



    Andrew J and Abby Borden
    I've always heard thet Emma Borden NEVER sat for a photograph?
    Visit my blog to read my memoir "Monster In The Closet".
    I welcome your coments and input.

    http://mymemoirmonsterinthecloset.blogspot.com/

  31. #181
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    22,478
    Quote Originally Posted by doyleloyal View Post
    may be the wrong thread for this, but i FINALLY saw miss bewitched herself in "the legend of lizzie borden" what a weird movie. The whole lizzie/andrew thing was a little uncomfortable to watch but overall it wasn't half bad. the ending would've been better if they hadn't actually shown her committing the murders. I guess if i was the director, I would've shown bridget or emma AND lizzie committing the murders that way the REAL verdict of guilt on lizzie was still questionable but that's just me. Hopefully it'll get re-made someday.
    I saw that one when it came out years ago. TV movie, wasn't it?

    *Runs off to look it up.

    Here we go: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0040554/

    Here's one I think you'll like better if you're looking for something with more historical value and other interesting bits. It's even got the Bordenites! (check out the summary for what the heck they're about):http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365452/
    Last edited by SomeChick; 07-08-2010 at 08:09 PM.
    .

    Life goes on.

  32. #182
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,498
    This person has a ton of pictures and trivia about the case (go through several years' worth of archives):

    http://phayemuss.livejournal.com/

  33. #183
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,498
    Interestingly, during the night her mother was in labor with Lizzie, a great meteor fell to earth (breaking up as it did so), memorialized by a famous painting by Frederic Church and a famous poem by Walt Whitman:

    http://lizziebordenwarpsandwefts.com...personalities/

  34. #184
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    independence,mo
    Posts
    929
    I will have to cruise the net and watch ur suggestion one day. I love Lizzie borden stuff it's just so interesting it's like going to one of those murder mystery weekend things and ur the one left to figure it out but SOOO much better! to be a fly on the wall of that house on that day....if i had three wishes that would be one of them.

  35. #185
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    independence,mo
    Posts
    929
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTSLnw4haAU i think this is "hash and rehash" I wish i could see the whole thing this is only 5 mins of it. great suggestion!!

  36. #186
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX.
    Posts
    3,049
    It will never be solved, but the only two people in the house that day who weren't murdered were Lizzie, and Bridgette.
    Just try to imagine what homes were like when there was no air conditioning, no radios, or TVs, no appliance's running, and no toilets flushing. Windows were mostly left open, no cars going up and down the street, even though there were carriages, and horses. Nothing to drown out a sound.
    It was a MUCH quieter world back then, one of them HAD to hear something.
    I think Emma snuck back into town that day, but even then a lady driving a carriage by herself back in those days would have been noticed, surely, unless she dressed as a man.
    Whoever did it Lizzie, or Emma, I think Bridgette was either paid off, or so frightened that she wouldn't tell the truth. I just don't Lizzie was bright enough, or cool headed enough to have committed the murders alone.
    Visit my blog to read my memoir "Monster In The Closet".
    I welcome your coments and input.

    http://mymemoirmonsterinthecloset.blogspot.com/

  37. #187
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    22,478
    Quote Originally Posted by doyleloyal View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTSLnw4haAU i think this is "hash and rehash" I wish i could see the whole thing this is only 5 mins of it. great suggestion!!
    I'm glad you like. It comes around on PBS once in awhile.

    If you have DirecTV or something like it with DVR service, you can run a title search for it to see if it's showing on any channel, up to two weeks in advance. I happened to see a blurb about it online, searched it in my listings and that's how I was able to see it.
    .

    Life goes on.

  38. #188
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    505
    Im so obsessed with this case. I have the movie and a lizzie special from the history channel saved on my computer and i watch it probably 1 or 2 times a week. I need a new hobby huh.

  39. #189
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    independence,mo
    Posts
    929
    I can believe the frustration angle on lizzie's part. You have more money than u know what to do with and still ur not allowed any modern things like toilets or electricity(sp? i don't know i just woke up) and ur unmarried in ur 30's (which at the age in those times u were NEVER getting married) trapped in a house of hate, she had more than enough reason to do them in. I think Emma knew and I think she helped cover it up that's probably why she stayed with liz for so long and Bridget was silenced by fear or payed hush money. Liz was a sociopath, had to be. I'm gonna look up that "hash and rehash" again I so wanna c the whole thing, it's been driving me nuts!!

  40. #190
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX.
    Posts
    3,049
    People are always saying how they wish the "Sharon Tate" house had been left alone and turned into a B&B.
    You know you can stay at the "Lizzie Borden Murder House" it is a Museum/B&B.
    Visit my blog to read my memoir "Monster In The Closet".
    I welcome your coments and input.

    http://mymemoirmonsterinthecloset.blogspot.com/

  41. #191
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cheesehead Country
    Posts
    2,435
    Lizzie and I share a birthday next week!
    Oh and my middle name is Elizabeth, in which Lizzie could be a nickname for..... lol
    Last edited by SassyMonkey719; 07-13-2010 at 11:08 AM.
    "Deal with the world like you are shopping at a garage sale- Calmly sift through the crap with a smile! Only buy what you need!" ~ Donnie Wahlberg Words of Wisdom

  42. #192
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX.
    Posts
    3,049
    Cool!
    Visit my blog to read my memoir "Monster In The Closet".
    I welcome your coments and input.

    http://mymemoirmonsterinthecloset.blogspot.com/

  43. #193
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Middle Midwest
    Posts
    1,890
    I always wondered about this.....isn't it kind of odd that Lizzie's middle name was "Andrew", her father's name? That wasn't at all custom back then, to name a child after their other-sex parent.....

  44. #194
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,247
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth View Post
    I always wondered about this.....isn't it kind of odd that Lizzie's middle name was "Andrew", her father's name? That wasn't at all custom back then, to name a child after their other-sex parent.....

    Hmmmm, that is kinda weird... Maybe she was really a he or born with both (it happens) and that is where all the hate/anger built up. Couldn't talk about such things back then ya know... She was somewhat manly ~ never married ~ and boy she sure had good swing on her...

    What happened to Lizzie's real Mother?
    My Posse's On Broadway

  45. #195
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX.
    Posts
    3,049
    I don't know why, but my grandfather was born in 1907 and his name was Sam Ophelia Fowler.
    Visit my blog to read my memoir "Monster In The Closet".
    I welcome your coments and input.

    http://mymemoirmonsterinthecloset.blogspot.com/

  46. #196
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    independence,mo
    Posts
    929
    The victorian era was not all a great era for names. There's a few in my family that's like "really? really?!"

  47. #197
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    517
    always been so fascinated with Lizzie. probably because of watching the Elizabeth Montgomery movie so often in my younger years. Would love to stay at the B&B one of these days.


    From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. ~Edvard Munch

  48. #198
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cheesehead Country
    Posts
    2,435
    Happy Birthday Lizzie!!! She would have been 140 years old today!
    "Deal with the world like you are shopping at a garage sale- Calmly sift through the crap with a smile! Only buy what you need!" ~ Donnie Wahlberg Words of Wisdom

  49. #199
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,730
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I don't know why, but my grandfather was born in 1907 and his name was Sam Ophelia Fowler.
    1902

    Gladys Oma L.

    Man, I wish I had more time to read this entire thread.
    Last edited by lab_rat; 07-19-2010 at 05:34 PM.

  50. #200
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    independence,mo
    Posts
    929
    Lizzie's zodiac sign happy bday!

    [SIZE=5]Cancer! About your sign...[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=2]The Cancerian character is the least clear-cut of all those associated with the signs of the zodiac. It can range from the timid, dull, shy and withdrawn to the most brilliant, and famous Cancerians are to be found through the whole range of human activity. It is a fundamentally conservative and home-loving nature, appreciating the nest like quality of a secure base to which the male can retire when he needs a respite from the stresses of life, and in which the Cancerian woman can exercise her strong maternal instincts. The latter tends to like and to have a large family. `Nest like' is an appropriate adjective for the Cancerian home, for its inhabitants tend to favor the dark, mysterious but comfortable type of house which has something of the air of a den about it, a place which belongs to the family rather than existing as a showcase to impress visitors.
    That is not to say that the Cancerian is unsociable, just that for them there is a time to socialize and a time to be solitary, and this is part of the apparent contradiction in their nature. Outwardly they can appear formidable - thick-skinned, unemotional, uncompromising, obstinately tenacious, purposeful, energetic, shrewd, intuitive and wise, sometimes with a philosophical profundity of thought verging on inspiration. Their intimates, however, may see a very different character, one with a sympathetic and kindly sensitivity to other people, especially those they love. They are able to identify with the situations of others because of the keenness of their imaginations. They are often over-imaginative and prone to fantasy, sometimes trying to shape their lives to fit some romantic ideal. They are appreciative of art and literature, and especially of drama, where the spectacle and ebb and flow of action and feeling particularly excite them. They may themselves possess considerable literary, artistic or oratorical talent. Their sharp ears and talent for mimicry can sometimes give them success on the stage, though their tendency to be emotional may make them overact. Interestingly - because they give the impression of being down-to-earth - they are often fascinated by the occult and are more open to psychic influence than the average. If they can reconcile the personal conflict of their urge to be outgoing with the reserve that causes them to withdraw into themselves, then at best they can inspire a generation, especially the youthful part of it, by their idealism. A job in which they can express this, and in which they can do well, would be as a leader in a youth organization.
    [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=2]In their personal relationships they are mentally a mixture of toughness and softness, often emotional and romantic to the point of sentimentality in their fantasies; but in real life and in marriage, their loving is not so sentimental but tenaciously loyal. Even if they have affairs (and they may do so, for the male in particular is open to sensual stimulation), their first loyalty remains to spouse and family, of whom they regard themselves as the protector. Both the Cancerian man and woman love unreservedly, giving much and asking little in return - in fact, one of the most important lessons they have to learn is how to receive gracefully. They are too easily influenced by those they love and admire, and swayed by the emotion of the moment. They are also loyal friends, the negative side of their faithfulness being clannishness, the narrow patriotism of "my country right or wrong"; and closing ranks in suspicion and coldness toward outsiders.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=2]Cancerians have a retentive memory, particularly for emotionally laden events which they can recall in detail for years afterwards. they are strongly governed by childhood memories and since they live intensely in the past in memory and in the future in imagination, a chance meeting with someone for whom they had an unrequited love, even if they thought they had conquered the feeling, will easily rouse the emotion all over again.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=2]The Cancerian has many potential faults. They can be untidy, sulky, devious, moody, inclined to self-pity because of an inferiority complex, brood on insults (very often imagined), yet are easily flattered. They can be tactless and difficult yet, because they are normally ambitious, they will curry favor by floating with majority opinions, outlooks and fashions of the day. As a result they often change their opinions and loyalties and, indeed, their occupations, and lack stability. They are easily corrupted and, because they are convincing romanticizers, can make successful confidence tricksters. Their romanticism in another sense make them ardent supporters of causes, for example a football team with whose heroes they can identify in a world of fantasy.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=2]Their abilities fit the Cancerian for a wide range of occupations. As they are interested in what people are thinking and able to judge what they can safely be told, they can be good journalists, writers or politicians, though in this last capacity they are more likely to remain in the background rather than attain prominent positions of power. They may, indeed, change their party affiliations. They can serve in other departments of public affairs, especially those which involve looking after others, for example in any kind of service from welfare and nursing to catering - their own love of comfort and good living makes the Cancerian an excellent chef or housekeeper. They sometimes have a penchant for trade or business and are often successful as a captain of industry. This is because they are excellent organizers with a good sense of value and economy which they may combine with a flair for inventiveness and originality. The romantic side of their natures make them enjoy grubbing about in places where exciting discoveries may be made (old stamp collections in attics, etc.), and if they can do this professionally as a secondhand dealer or specialist in antiques, they will be happy. More common occupations which suit some subjects of Cancer are real estate broker, gardener and sailor.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=2]Physically they are average to below average in height, with a fleshy body and short legs in comparison with the rest of them. Their hair is usually brown, their faces round, their complexions pale, their foreheads prominent, their eyes small and blue or gray in color, their noses short, perhaps upturned, and their mouths full. They sometimes walk clumsily.[/SIZE]


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •