I just watched Dragon again a few days ago. Although I know it is a lot of fiction, I still love watching it. There are so many parts in that movie that make me tear up.
lol Dragon, I taped that off cable. Me and another Lee fan laugh about some of the bits in that movie. Like when he's sitting there with all these wires strapped to him and says it's like doing alot if sit ups, just totally removes all the credit the real Bruce did to get in shape.
I wonder why most of it is fictional like, if his wife had a part to play in it you would think she would want the truth to be out there. Like when Bruce went into hospital, wasn't from the fight and the guy kicking him, the true story is Bruce damaged a nerve while weight training. I don't get why Linda would change that? And Brandon as a baby had blond hair, not black.
Call me picky but if I was his wife I would want the real story out there.
ps: Did you notice Shannon Lee as the singer at the party?
This is from a friend and this is his view on Bruce's death (not mine so don't argue with me lol I'm just putting it out there)
[SIZE=2] lol I've never even heard of a chemical report, trying to argue with the evidence and testimonies of the doctors who examined him and did the autopsys is just a waste of time, why would there even be a chemical report to go against such evidence, sounds like some fanboy making up stuff.
He died from an allergic reaction rather than an overdose and it was to some weird compound of cannabis from Nepal, if it was just plain cannabis he'd used in the US he'd have died much sooner. Not sure how much he'd need to take but not much and his almost 0% body fat wouldn't have helped him much.
It's clearly what killed him though, you have video proof with the guy who saw him and and all the other doctors and they all say the same thing, anyone who denies the facts are just looking for a way to not believe them.
They chose to blame the painkillers he'd taken just cuz it would be a loss of chinese face to be associated with the death of someone so famous, same reason why they tossed his dead body along at the hospital like pass the parcel, he was already dead so they passed him along so they wouldn't be associated with any of it.
Davis Miller told me that Betty had told him that when she found him he had "brain matter" leaking out of his nose, so I guess he was dead in the bed before she even called anyone, she is a nutcase though, she thinks the sun is the reincarnation of Bruce Lee and that she and him are buddah's or some crazy story like that, she tried to prevent Davis from leaving who had to basically escape from her apartment LOL, she probably lost her marbles from being under suspicion for so many years.
That and the fact that Linda wouldn't be entitled to the insurance money from his death if he'd died from drugs.
As for the UFC stuff, a once inch punch in a real fight would be as useful as the Karate Kid's crane kick lol, nobodys gonna just stand there while you one inch punch them. He'd have done okay against people his own size, to say he'd have smashed people the size of Ali or Tyson though is just being stupid.
The power a heavyweight boxer can punch at is very powerful, a lightweight boxer wouldn't even be able to absorb the shots, at the end of the day size does matter, all you can do is get a quick kick in to the nads and run for it lol
And a video done for fun someone here might like: it's not meant to be offensive has some funny clips of impersonators in there:
[/SIZE][SIZE=2]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=eqcEEjr6K-w[/SIZE]
Has anyone seen 'Death by misadventure?'
Last edited by Guest; 06-27-2008 at 10:28 PM.
he's give me permission to post these, again I'm just putting it out there, worth a read but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and belief.
http://bruceleedivinewind.com/death.html
http://bruceleedivinewind.com/davismiller.html
This isn't really about his death but it's a good read:
http://bruceleedivinewind.com/georgetan.html
I asked him to come join in the forum but he isn't interested, he said he's had enough of arguing with people about the way Bruce died and doesn't want me to tell him any replies regarding his info.
Last edited by Guest; 06-27-2008 at 11:23 PM.
Yes, I am a BL Fan far from a "fanboy" though, he/she sounds too me as if they are a Davis Miller "fanboy" though, who btw was discredited a couple years back by James Bishop. i won't get into it though but he/she can ask Miller about it if they want lol. I don't have to make anything up, because you never seen it don't mean it don't exist buddy,he/she certainly have the right to think or disagree as he/she choose, However, one should to do so in a mature way. That said, i stand by my previous statements. Now about this so called "nepal cannabis" I heard Davis Miller mention that before my question, is, where is the medical findings and studies on this "weird Nepal cannabis?..... they don't exist. here's a FACT: the pathologist only found trace amounts of marijuana/cannibis in BL's body he didn't even have sufficient enough cannabis in his system to pass through a gas chromatographic column, that's a fact. another FACT: BL didn't die from no equagesic, he didn't die from any "nepal cannabis" or drugs either. i'll let you ponder... If you believe that he died from "weird nepal cannabis" then you are incorrect and you are certainly entitled to that "opinion" but in this case it's incorrect all the same.
Last edited by Find A Death Fan; 06-27-2008 at 11:24 PM.
At the end of the day, people will believe what they want to believe, so for those that say BL died from aspirin and "hashish" then, i guess, that's what he died from.
Certainly not marijuana. I have little to no knowledge of the equagesic that he ingested. However, I have read that his brain was swollen and that is suspect to me. I think that is what they signed his death out as? There are many things that can cause swelling of the brain.
It was many years ago and it was in another country and that makes it difficult for me to give my professional opinion (I work as a death investigator).
Most (not all) Poisons show up in toxicology.
Do you have an idea as to what he might have been poisoned with?
Have you read the autopsy report?
Certainly poisons AND allergies will cause the brain to swell.
As far as the pot allergy goes. There could have been pesticides or herbicides in it from when it was grown in the field.
I do not for one moment believe Bruce Lee was murdered. Nor does his family.
I would also be interested in your posting the photos and some documentation proving Bleecker did his homework, for I cannot find that new version of the book anywhere. I have since done some investigating and was told by a friend of mine that it is thought that Linda secretly bought the copyrights via a publisher and the update--if there was one--was never released.
Last edited by cindyt; 06-28-2008 at 11:33 AM.
Hello cindyt, really? you read that chapter in the originial version of UM? my originial version ends after the chapter "Parting Thoughts". my version does not contain it. You asked if i have seen Bruce Lee's autospy report? BL's autopsy report appeared in Bruce Lee The Legend doc. As far as TB i said he done his homework on the subject of BL meaning it makes sense from a medical and logical pov he seems to be knowledgeable about his subject. I never stated I believe everything he stated in UM though, for example I don't think BL used steroids among other things. And about murder, im not saying that Bruce Lee was "murder" im sure you have probably heard about marijuana fields being sprayed with pesticides ( paraquat, etc) who's to say that marijuana he ingested on /5/10/73 and 7/20/73 wasn't sprayed with pesticides? That don't mean BL was murder, not intentionally anyway. But if that's the case his death would be the result of indirect poisoning as oppossed to an direct one. i also have read BL's post mortem examination report that was posted years back on another forum by somebody else that agrees BL died this way. BL did not die from natural causes. People are entitled to believe what they want though not trying to change anyone's mind.
All right, I think we are pretty much in agreement, then. And we can agree to disagree about our POV concerning Bleecker.
The bottom line is What does it all matter? Nothing he did or didn't do takes away from the great man he was and still is.
BTW I have unsettled Matters on PDF and Chapter 21 was indeed included, because I remembered reading it and I took another look and it was indeed there. I also looked at the copyright and it was TB, with nothing about any other ownership.
Last edited by Find A Death Fan; 06-28-2008 at 01:23 PM.
I was reading through the second printing of UM, and it does seem that Don Warrener didn't include any of the "medical" documentation on BL such as to what drugs he was taking, but the insurance documentation is in there. It took some tracking but i did found a place that sells the second printing.
Last edited by Find A Death Fan; 06-29-2008 at 12:08 PM.
Guest
The time here is now 12:25 a.m. July 20th 2008, Today marks the 35th anniversary of the untimely death of Martial Arts icon Bruce Lee. RIP Bruce!!!!!!!!!!
Bruce Jun Fan Lee
Novemeber 27th 1940 - July 20th 1973
Last edited by Find A Death Fan; 07-19-2008 at 09:25 PM.
Bruce Lee didn't die of poisoning!! He had a precondition that almost killed him in May or June of 73'. He was getting dizzy during a fight scene while making his last movie "Game of Death" - he went into the bathroom to cool off and passed out. The only thing that saved him from dying that day was someone coming into the bathroom to check on him.
He got checked out at a hospital and according to Bruce himself, he was given a clean bill of health. But years later his Mother was interviewed and she said that Bruce told her that he didn't have long to live because of a problem he had with his brain.....so basically he knew something was up.
I personally don't believe what he took at his mistress' appt killed him. He was already dying when he took that pill - his brain was already swelling and that's why he was complaining of the headache.
It's a rotten shame too - a few weeks after he died "Enter the Dragon" came out and made him the star he always wanted to be. I remember my dad taking me to see that when it came out!! I'm still shocked that they let a 5 year old kid in to see that - back then, it was not only a risque' movie, but very violent as well. I was watching it on TCM a few weeks ago and have to honest - the acting was awful for the most part - still a great movie though.
Don't know who this guy Tom Bleecker is exactly, but this is an interesting interview. Check this out! He seems to think it was poisoning as well.
DW Forum - Thanks Tom for coming here and spending some time with us.
Tom Bleecker - Thanks for having me here DM.
DW Forum - Do you think Bruce saw his death coming?
Tom Bleecker - It appears that he did. Remember, he did tell Linda a few weeks before he died that he "didn't think that he would live as long as she because he couldn't keep this up much longer."
DW Forum - Was Bruce Lee beaten up on July 20th 1973, no way medicine can do that to your face. he was posioned, went to bed, then beaten up, then they put his clothes on and forget about his second show?
Also his body is not really buried in seattle?
Tom Bleecker - I seriously doubt that Bruce as beaten up on July 20th. The swelling of his face is not uncommon. Compare Bruce's face to that of Elvis Presley. The swelling was caused by retention of water, in his face and his brain.
DW Forum - Just before Brandon died he claimed that he has evidence about the real death of his father is this true?Do you know more about it??
Tom Bleecker - I have heard that Brandon had made a public statement that he intended on reopening the investigation of his father's death after he (Brandon) finished filming "The Crow." When I was married to Linda, Brandon often came to the house to sit in what I called "The Bruce Lee Room" and read over his father's files.
DW Forum - Was Bruce given poison by his herbalist and this caused his death?
Tom Bleecker - Certainly a strong possibility.
DW Forum - To ask a expert as yourself only one question is very hard so I put my question like this .Here a rough run down on a few points, can you tell me if I am off track or close ?
Bruce was a legal resident of the County of Los Angeles , state of California at the time of his death ( this is strange but I reading it for a legal document) After his death his estate was valued at 2,797,351.00 $US dollars. Bruce's assets were in Wu Ngan name and after Bruce's passing Wu Ngan recieved a large sum of money from Linda's lawyer to sort this out and quicky disappeared and returned to England. In 1974 two Insurance companys only payed half of the amount on the polices and were unable to obtain a copy of the Autopsy report , not because of what it included but what was missing in the report pointed to something much more ... There was a big row the night before Lee died with Raymond Chow over the business accounts and even after Bruce's passing the were problems over the rights to Enter the Dragon. Bruce is not buried in Seattle. Bruce's body was in an unusual conidition not link to the offical story of his passing. Betty Ting Pei a few years after Lee's passing gave some of Bruce's clothes to a famous Hong Kong comedian. Both the HK police and insurance company invesagated Lee's drug connections and quietly closed the case.
Raymond Chow about to lose the biggest part of his business so he had Bruce poisioned though his drug use (cannabis) unable to prove this , and because of Chow past connections to the Taiwan Grove, something like the C.I.A. , Linda and Marshall closed the book on the case and got as much of the money from the insurance company as they could for Linda and the kids.
Tom Bleecker - I didn't see a question in your post. That said, I do agree with most, or all, of what you posted. Please email me sometime at your convenience, and I can share some things that were not in UM. Incidentally, I would like to purchase a copy of your book if you will give me a link.
DW Forum - Regarding your time spent in Hong Kong for Unsettled Matters, were you able to speak with Betty about July 20th or was she unavailable at the time? She does seem more candid than the rest of the lot there. Perhaps her conscience and love for Bruce,it seems. Although like the others, she spun a few white lies as to her whereabouts on 7/20, a short time later, she seemed to open the door more than anyone else would have been willing to.I still find it hard to believe there are some who refuse to believe that there was a love affair going on between them, no big deal it happens to many,actors and non actors alike. I wonder what she is recollecting on this day in Hong Kong? I would think today,the press is having quite a time with her.
Tom Bleecker - There is no question but that Bruce and Betty had an ongoing love affair, and you're right, it isn't all that uncommon, inside and outside Hollywood. Yes, I have talked with Betty, and I found her to be honest and down to earth. And yes, she did have a great love for Bruce.
DW Forum - Was Lee's grave really filled with cement years later?
Tom Bleecker - I doubt that Linda would have allowed Bruce's grave to be filled with cement. That said, I had a problem in my investigative work with regard to finding a burial certificate in Seattle. By law, the death certificate and burial certificate must follow the body. I didn't get into this in UM, but the suggestion was that Bruce's body was not in the grave in Seattle, but the evidence was, and still is, vague.
DW Forum - Do you know the exact cause of his death and also what are your favorite memories of bruce?and finally what are your future plans? and where do u see yourself in 5-10 years?
Tom Bleecker - My favorite memories of Bruce are many. I loved the laughter, and I especially loved being in his presence when he was a spoiler to so many great masters. He really did have an incredible talent. The cause of death? We can start by dismissing the single pill of Equagesic. Beyond that, my sense is (1) poisoning, or (2) drug abuse of which Bruce was unawares, mainly cortisone and anabolic steriods and diuretics.
DW Forum - Are they legal resons why the Death cert and Autopsy report are hidden ? I thought they would be a matter of public record in Hong Kong. If so can you reveal what is the time of death on the Death cert ( I relised this would have been done by the doctor at the hospital) and whats in or not in the autopsy report that makes it so keep from view. The morgue photo seems to show dents on the forehead and side of the face and something strange with his neck, can you explain ?
Can you tell so what happen to Bruce once they took him to hospital , I understand he was left on the floor for sometime and move from one dept to another before they try in vain to revive him with electric shocks to the heart (?) etc and the autopsy was not done until Monday (he died on friday) ?
Tom Bleecker - There is nothing in the autopsy (cause of death ruled brain edema) and Bruce was DOA at Queen's and had been dead for some time prior to transport.
DW Forum - I can't imagine anyone ever owning up to taking part in a cover up,so what evidence would be needed to open an official investigation into the deaths of Bruce and Brandon ?
Tom Bleecker - The issue of the death of Bruce Lee is closed forever. The reason being that the English Hong Kong police department and British government no longer exists. Hong Kong has now returned to Mainland China. As to Brandon's tragic death, this is still open to new information and evidence.
DW Forum - Thankyou very much for answering the questions Tom. Tom Bleecker - My pleasure
Bruce Lee remembered on 35th anniversary of his death. Includes clips of Brandon and an interview with Linda and Shannon.
http://www.king5.com/video/index.html?nvid=264668&shu=1
that was an excellent post Cindy....... everytime I see Shannon I see Brandon.....sigh..........
RIP Bruce....
trivia.....my hubby is named after Bruce Lee (Richard Lee)
Oh crap that's right......Well...at least I got the May part of it right
And you're right...it is my opinion that he didn't get poisoned because there is too much evidence against it. BUT........stranger stuff has happened and I wouldn't be shocked if it finally came out that that's what killed him.
NOW....you seem you know a lot about this - what's the deal with Bleecker saying that he isn't ...or may not be buried in Seattle??
As some of my JKD brother said and i've always felt that Tom Bleecker had an axes to grind with Bruce for so many years,even before He'd married Linda (Tom that is).No Bruce was not a saint (and he would tell you) But its just so funny that he would come out the closest with all this info year after the death of Bruce.The part that really cracks me up was when Bruce supposely jumped and helded Dan Inosanto up against the wall at an airport Because he had said something about Bruce's weight lost and Bruce got pissed at him.According to my instructor Bruce wasn't mad or upset and he only demostrated a shouder bump on Dan.Bruce said after that he felt more powerful at 128 lbs than he did at 140lbs then gave Dan that famous smile.
Mike, I'm willing to bet you know more about Bruce Lee than I do. Yeah, Bruce had his faults, as we all do. And all I've ever said was that when someone like Bleecker makes accusations he should back them up with sources; otherwise he is smearing someone who is not here to defend themselves.
Have you heard of John Overall? He is the webmaster of The Bruce Lee Review and is a member of the Bruce and Brandon Lee forum I used to co admin. He interviewed the likes of Bob Wall and some of Brandon's co stars for the forum. I know you know who Bob Wall is, and Bob said right there on our forum that he never saw any indication that Bruce cheated on Linda. That's good enough for me.
At any rate, I think you're right, Bleecker has an ax to grind. In fact I think his problem is that he isn't Bruce Lee. I really believe that.
John Overall does sound familiar to me,I can't place where.
Hey, cindy...
I have been finding this thread facinating, since I have always been a big Bruce and Brandon fan. Can you tell me a little more about this Bleecher guy? How did he come into Linda's life again? Is there bad blood between them now? I know very little about him. Thanks for any info!
Linda hired Tom Bleecker to be the ghost writer of her book Bruce Lee: the Man only I knew. They butted heads over what information to reveal in the book, he says. He wanted a full expose and he says she wanted a white wash. Of course he eventually bent to her will, he says, and somewhere in there they fell in love and married. But divorced about 18 or so months later. I don't know the details. The Lees are very private people and do not air their dirty laundry to the public.
Anyway, so Bleecker wrote his Bruce Lee smear. Linda said it was full of lies and tried to have it squashed, but was not successful. So, yeah, there is bad blood between them. Dis the Lees and you don't exist.
From the interviews and after reading Unsettled Matters, my opinion is that Tom Bleeker wanted to be Bruce Lee. He wanted the fame of being what Bruce was. And I wouldn't doubt this is the reason he woo'd Linda. I don't know, but it makes sense to me.
John Overall interview Bleecker and he said the man was just pure nasty about Bruce. He interviewed Bob Wall and Wall said Bleecker was full of it or something to that effect. Bob Wall was one of Bruce's best friends and was in three of his movies. I would believe Bob Wall above Bleecker any day of the week.
Exactly, Lisa. Actually this piece of info from the Clouse book is not true. I had never heard about this theory before I read the book, and have since found out that Bruce's veins were intact, no indication he had an aneurysm.
The autopsy reports states he died due to brain edema. If it was an allergic reaction to the super asperin then he must have taken one in May when he collapsed in the bathroom at the studio. But some think he was allergic to a chemical in pot or hashish. What do you think about that, Lisa? Who knows what is sucked into the body when smoking pot--actually he ate most of his in cookies and brownies--but eating something loaded with pesticides or heaven knows what could cause an allergic reaction.
Last edited by cindyt; 07-21-2008 at 08:43 PM.
I have never heard of an allergy to hashish or mj, but certainly it is probably out there. I also have never heard of an allergic reaction severe enough to cause death from either of those drugs. Most people who die of anaphylaxis die from shock, pulmonary edema or due to the closing of the throat and restriction of air.
The pesticide thing is interesting. Is there any proof that pesticides were found in anything that Bruce ingested?
And in regards to the super aspirin, is that thing still on the market, even over there? What exactly was in it, do we know?
Last edited by lisalouver; 07-21-2008 at 08:48 PM.
Although rumor has it that Bruce's herbalist poisoned him, there is no evidence that he ate or drank any kind of poison.
A foreshadowing of events to come occurred on May 10, 1973 when Lee collapsed in Golden Harvest studios while doing dubbing work for Enter the Dragon. Suffering from full-body seizures and cerebral edema, he was immediately rushed to Hong Kong Baptist Hospital where doctors were able to reduce the swelling through the administration of Mannitol and revive him. These same symptoms that occurred in his first collapse were later repeated on the day of his death.[
Equagesic (pronounced /??kw?'d?i?z?k/) is a combination drug indicated for short-term pain treatment accompanied by tension and/or anxiety in patients with musculoskeletal disease or tension headache.
Composition
It combines[1]
aspirin 325mg (for pain relief) and
meprobamate 200mg (used here as a muscle relaxant).
In some formulations[2] it is also quoted to contain ethoheptazine, an opioid analgesic.
Problems
Equagesic was discontinued in the UK in 2002, possibly because of more adequate drugs available. Specifically, meprobamate is more toxic than benzodiazepines, which are also useful as a muscle relaxant.
Martial artist Bruce Lee died of cerebral edema caused by allergic reaction to Equagesic, according to coroner examination.
Interesting cindy. Meprobamate is similar to the benzo family as stated in what you posted. It used to be used for anxiety also similar to ativan, xanax and valium.
Not that it matters, but was the Equagesic over the counter when Bruce took it or prescription?
I'll admit that this one has me stumped. When Bruce had the first episode in May of 1973, he had not taken anything, that is another perplexing thing. Had he not taken the Equagesic, is it possible that Bruce still would have fallen ill the day of his death?
I have never heard of anybody having an allergy reaction to Marijuana either but keep in mind we are talking about unlaced marijuana only. The main poisons that were tested for at autopsy were mercury and lead, fluoride and phosphorus wasn't tested for. On May 10th 1973 when Bruce nearly died, he ingested marijuana and went into the restroom and immediately collapse and NEARLY died and was rushed to the hospital were he was revived. On July 20th 1973 he ingested marijuana again and DID in fact die from the same thing he was revived from earlier. Coincidence? According to Davis Miller, he knows the man that supplied Bruce with the drugs who nearly died himself from the same thing by using it. Again, Coincidence? Bruce Lee's own brother Robert Lee believes Bruce was murdered, In fact at one point he was writing his own book to tell how the Lee family believe Bruce died.
[quote=lisalouver;33868
Not that it matters, but was the Equagesic over the counter when Bruce took it or prescription?
quote]
Im not sure but I think it was only by prescription drug. Betty Ting had a prescription for it she was planning on writing a book on Bruce at one point supposedly to tell everything that happen between her and Bruce.
I did not know Bruce had a brother!!! Where is he today?
Not sure i think he lives in the Los Angeles area but don't quote me on it
Here is a video of Robert giving an interveiw about his brother Bruce.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYwo0oR0Lv8
Bruce was a habitual hashish user. The Equaquesic was a prescription that Betty Ting Pei used for her own headaches, and there is no evidence that Bruce took any that day in May. Here's some more info:
Dr. Langford, who treated Lee for his first collapse, stated after his death that, "There's not a question in my mind that cannabis should have been named as the presumptive cause of death."[74] He also believed that,
"Equagesic was not at all involved in Bruce's first collapse."[75] Professor R.D. Teare, who had overseen over 100,000 autopsies, was the top expert assigned to the Lee case. Dr. Teare declared that the presence of cannabis was mere coincidence, and added that it would be "irresponsible and irrational" to say that it might have triggered Lee's death. His conclusion was that the death was caused by an acute cerebral edema due to a reaction to compounds present in the prescription pain killing drug Equagesic.[76] Dr. Peter Wu's preliminary opinion was that the cause of death could have been a reaction to cannabis and Equagesic. Dr. Wu would later back off from this position however:
"Professor Teare was a forensic scientist recommended by Scotland Yard; he was brought in as an expert on cannabis and we can't contradict his testimony. The dosage of cannabis is neither precise nor predictable, but I've never known of anyone dying simply from taking it."[77] The exact details of Lee's death are a subject of controversy.
He had more than one brother, I think, and at least two sisters. I don't know what Robert is doing today or if he is even still alive.