Lockerbie

[ichabodius]

20th anniversary. One of my highschool classmates dad was on this flight. I didnt like the dude but was tempted to bring it up a few times to piss him off. Glad I didnt. He was an ass though.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/de...erbie-scotland

[cubbiecatz]

Wow, it doesn't seem like it's been 20 years.

And I'm glad you didn't say anything Ich!

[Lout_Rampage]

This case has always facinated me. I didn't realize that the anniversary was coming up. Thanks for the post.

[Nessa]

What a mess that was. I can't believe it's been that long.

[Skeletor]

One of the things that came out at the inquest was that some of the passengers had fallen out of the aircraft still strapped to their seats
near to where the bomb had gone off and the question was asked would they be aware of what was happening to them as they started falling to earth and the answer was that yes they would for a brief period. I hate heights and that sent a shiver down my spine. There were also a number of sick jokes about it at the time as there always seem to be and dare I admit it - one or two of them were quite funny despite the horror of it all.

[deathybrad]

I can't believe this thread hasn't been merged.

My uncle and aunt missed the 727 flight PA103A from Frankfurt to Heathrow to catch PA103 to Kennedy because they spent too much time shopping. We thought they were dead for a day or so.

[Frank 'N' Howie]

20 YEARS!!! Good grief...I remember this so well...I can remember watchin it on the news and wantin to see crash photos...Death haggery started early for me...

[ratkin638]

One of the things that came out at the inquest was that some of the passengers had fallen out of the aircraft still strapped to their seats
near to where the bomb had gone off and the question was asked would they be aware of what was happening to them as they started falling to earth and the answer was that yes they would for a brief period. I hate heights and that sent a shiver down my spine. There were also a number of sick jokes about it at the time as there always seem to be and dare I admit it - one or two of them were quite funny despite the horror of it all.

The whole question of falling to your death from a bombed plane also came up in a semi-successful bombing over the Mediterranean. The bomb was mostly a dud, but it succeeded in blowing out a small section of the plane, including two seats with passengers strapped into them (the plane itself landed). In the inquest it came out that the women were most likely alive when they hit the water. On my personal list of horrible ways to die, that would rank extremely high.

[cubbiecatz]

The whole question of falling to your death from a bombed plane also came up in a semi-successful bombing over the Mediterranean. The bomb was mostly a dud, but it succeeded in blowing out a small section of the plane, including two seats with passengers strapped into them (the plane itself landed). In the inquest it came out that the women were most likely alive when they hit the water. On my personal list of horrible ways to die, that would rank extremely high.

Oh my God, that makes me ill. I can't imagine the thoughts and anguish during that fall.

[Morty]

Thank you for the post Ich. At the cemetery where I worked, a flight attendant and her mother killed in that flight were buried. It was inscribed on their headstone that they were part of the tragedy, and it stuck out in my mind because I saw it'd happened on my 10th birthday. I don't remember seeing the coverage of the attack and subsequent crash, so, again, thank you Ich for easing my curiosity.

[guardmom2008]

I just read in the paper that it was 20 yrs ago, and the one father wrote about receiving blood money each victim's family was to receive about 10 million before taxes, and lawyer fees.
His son was Mark Saunders, he felt that even though the money was tainted, he would do good with it by helping others.
Great story Ich.

[W Axl Rose]

Horrific, from Wikipedia;

Although the passengers would have lost consciousness through lack of oxygen, forensic examiners believe some of them might have regained consciousness as they fell toward oxygen-rich lower altitudes. Forensic pathologist Dr. William G. Eckert, director of the Milton Helpern International Center of Forensic Sciences at Wichita State University, who examined the autopsy evidence, told Scottish police he believed the flight crew, some of the flight attendants, and 147 other passengers survived the bomb blast and depressurization of the aircraft, and may have been alive on impact. None of these passengers showed signs of injury from the explosion itself, or from the decompression and disintegration of the aircraft. The inquest heard that a mother was found holding her baby, two friends were holding hands, and a number of passengers were found clutching crucifixes.

[Nessa]

Crater


An engine


Cockpit


Complete list of victims:
http://www.victimsofpanamflight103.org/victims

OMG Axl that info you posted is unreal.

[ghoulgurl]

A college student from my area was aboard this flight, ugh!

[Glamrock Princess]

My Mum had a dream about a cockpit in a field with a load of people sitting around it a few days before this terrible tragedy happened. She broke into tears when we saw it on the news.

[Lout_Rampage]

Horrific, from Wikipedia;

Although the passengers would have lost consciousness through lack of oxygen, forensic examiners believe some of them might have regained consciousness as they fell toward oxygen-rich lower altitudes. Forensic pathologist Dr. William G. Eckert, director of the Milton Helpern International Center of Forensic Sciences at Wichita State University, who examined the autopsy evidence, told Scottish police he believed the flight crew, some of the flight attendants, and 147 other passengers survived the bomb blast and depressurization of the aircraft, and may have been alive on impact. None of these passengers showed signs of injury from the explosion itself, or from the decompression and disintegration of the aircraft. The inquest heard that a mother was found holding her baby, two friends were holding hands, and a number of passengers were found clutching crucifixes.

It made me feel sick the first time I heard that so many people had survived the initial blast.

I also remember hearing that search parties had a hard time locating the children at first. Then they expanded their search and realized that because the children were lighter, the wind had carried them farther than the other passengers.

That made me so sad to think of the children being so far far their families on impact. It's like insult to injury (no pun intended, obviously).

[W Axl Rose]

...the wind had carried them farther than the other passengers.

That made me so sad to think of the children being so far far their families on impact...

Irrelevant really considering the outcome but yeah. Fuck. You hit the nail on the head.

[Lout_Rampage]

Irrelevant really considering the outcome but yeah. Fuck. You hit the nail on the head.

I know. It is irrelevant. It's not like it wouldn't have been sad otherwise. But yeah, you know what I'm saying.

[W Axl Rose]

I know. It is irrelevant. It's not like it wouldn't have been sad otherwise. But yeah, you know what I'm saying.

I meant the outcome was irrelevant. You hit the nail on the head. You know what I'm saying.

"search parties had a hard time locating the children at first. Then they expanded their search and realized that because the children were lighter, the wind had carried them farther than the other passengers"


Fuck.

[MorbidMolly]

The whole question of falling to your death from a bombed plane also came up in a semi-successful bombing over the Mediterranean. The bomb was mostly a dud, but it succeeded in blowing out a small section of the plane, including two seats with passengers strapped into them (the plane itself landed). In the inquest it came out that the women were most likely alive when they hit the water. On my personal list of horrible ways to die, that would rank extremely high.

Yeah.....I`ll add that to my top 5..........jezzly crow

[Linnie]

One of the young college girls killed was from my area. She would have been almost 40 now. Her father had died in his early 40s just a year prior. They are buried together and the mother made sure to have the cause of the daughter's death engraved on the tombstone. The mother had one other child, a son, IIRC, and eventually moved to New York, but appears at annual memorial events, etc.

I never met them, but I noticed, as it's in the same cemetery where some family members are buried. New decorations do appear on the grave from time to time.

At the time, there were several notorious photos of the victims still strapped to their seats. A news video which was later removed from circulation showed recovery team members trying to get a large middle-aged woman out of a seat that dangled from a wrecked building. They made her body (in tight dark clothes and barefooted, I noticed) fall to the ground, thud!!!! NOT a good sight. I recall that the family who recognized their relative successfully demanded that this footage no longer be shown. Well, maybe it's on YouTube these days, but I don't feel up to searching.
Nowadays, CNN or TruTV would have it on an endless loop.

[Lout_Rampage]

One of the young college girls killed was from my area. She would have been almost 40 now. Her father had died in his early 40s just a year prior. They are buried together and the mother made sure to have the cause of the daughter's death engraved on the tombstone. The mother had one other child, a son, IIRC, and eventually moved to New York, but appears at annual memorial events, etc.

I never met them, but I noticed, as it's in the same cemetery where some family members are buried. New decorations do appear on the grave from time to time.

At the time, there were several notorious photos of the victims still strapped to their seats. A news video which was later removed from circulation showed recovery team members trying to get a large middle-aged woman out of a seat that dangled from a wrecked building. They made her body (in tight dark clothes and barefooted, I noticed) fall to the ground, thud!!!! NOT a good sight. I recall that the family who recognized their relative successfully demanded that this footage no longer be shown. Well, maybe it's on YouTube these days, but I don't feel up to searching.
Nowadays, CNN or TruTV would have it on an endless loop.

Ugh. My goodnees. I can't imagine seeing my loved one like that. I don't blame them for demanding it be removed from circulation.

[Lout_Rampage]

"Eckert told Scottish police that distinctive marks on Captain MacQuarrie's thumb suggested he had been hanging onto the yoke of the plane as it descended, and may have been alive when the plane crashed. The captain, first officer, flight engineer, a flight attendant, and a number of first-class passengers were found still strapped to their seats inside the nose section when it crashed in a field by a tiny church in the village of Tundergarth. The inquest heard that the flight attendant was alive when found by a farmer's wife, but died before her rescuer could summon help."

[deathbunny]

"A boy was lying at the bottom of the steps on to the road. A young laddie with brown socks and blue trousers on. Later that evening my son-in-law asked for a blanket to cover him. I didn't know he was dead. I gave him a lamb's wool travelling rug thinking I'd keep him warm. Two more girls were lying dead across the road, one of them bent over garden railings. It was just as though they were sleeping. The boy lay at the bottom of my stairs for days. Every time I came back to my house for clothes he was still there. 'My boy is still there,' I used to tell the waiting policeman. Eventually on Saturday I couldn't take it no more. 'You got to get my boy lifted,' I told the policeman. That night he was moved."

I just can't even imagine what that must have been like...

[babooshka]

I work with someone who was living in lockerbie when the plane came down. He saw the engine came screaming down the road and embed itself in the tarmac.

he says what he saw scarred him for life, he knew the people who died on the ground and he doesnt really talk about it (i get on with him really well) but he did say some horrible things about body parts hanging from houses/gates and streetlamps etc, he also 100% blames the police and army for not getting there in time to save people as he says a lot of people were alive, in seats, etc and thinks they could have been saved.

[Miho]

How could someone tell if a person was still alive until they hit the ground?

[Glamrock Princess]

You guys probably know this but Johnny Rotten missed the flight, and a member from the 70's band Cockney Rebel died on the plane.

[Lout_Rampage]

How could someone tell if a person was still alive until they hit the ground?

The autopsy showed that they were killed by blunt force trauma (i.e. hitting the ground).

[baroque1]

It just freaks me out how terrorists kill innocent people with their bombs - especially the airplanes

[Glamrock Princess]

Makes me less inclined to travel, what with the tube being blown up a few years ago. Its a scary world we live in.

[Miho]

The autopsy showed that they were killed by blunt force trauma (i.e. hitting the ground).

Ahhh gotcha. Wasn't sure if being hit by a bomb would cause the same effects.

[dirk diggler]

Probably all know that David White, aka Larry Tate from the tv series "Bewitched"', son 33 year old Jonathan was killed in the terrorist bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, UK.

[Morty]

Probably all now that David White, aka Larry Tate from the tv series "Bewitched"', son 33 year old Jonathan was killed in the terrorist bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, UK.

This guy???

[dirk diggler]

This guy???

Yep that's him sorry them i should say..

[pattykad]

So refresh my memory....the cockpit was blown came off and the plane
continued to glide for a bit, correct?

Some passengers were thrown out at the time of the explosion
and those are the ones that were found hanging from trees and such?

Wouldn't those in the fuselage have ended up together? Why would so
many passengers have been so scattered if that whole thing
came down in one piece?

[Miho]

Wouldn't those in the fuselage have ended up together? Why would so
many passengers have been so scattered if that whole thing
came down in one piece?

I believe (and don't quote me) that the bomb did blow the fuselage in half, but it was still able to glide for a bit. This would have expelled a lot of the passengers.

[Miho]

Has a great description of how the plane broke apart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103

[lane4]

When we were in the UK for my brother-in-laws wedding we drove up to Scotland and saw the Lockerbie exit. We just took a chance and exited to see if there was a memorial and of course, there is. One of the local guys gave us directions.

It was surreal, very peaceful and quiet. I will never forget seeing all the victims names on the wall.

[theotherlondon]

Ali Mohmed al Megrah may be out of a Scottish prison early
because he has cancer.
This person killed 259 people 180 Americans as
well of 11 people on the ground.
On the Pan Am flight 103 back in Dec. 1988.
Just wondering about the families of the victims.

[RubySlippers]

i heard this...whatever. maybe the Scots are a little nicer than us here Americans. he should be left to rot.

[MaxyMillions]

I can't believe this! I just read The Boy That Fell From the Sky by Ken Dornstein, whose brother David, died on flight 103. Those families had to wait so long for justice. This must be a slap in the face to them. The book was fantastic, btw. I also read Their Darkest Day; a good read and had a lot about the people on the ground in Lockerbie that died as well as the Pan Am passengers.

[cleanskull]

He should die horribly in prison for what he did.

[STsFirstmate]

I live on Long Island and I have seen the memorial that was erected on the shore in the area they went down.
May he rot in jail and die ever so slowly. Compassion my ass.
I am beyond disappointed in the Scots. I guess their Braveheart no quarter days are behind them.
The only thing I would settle for is giving him to the Black Watch for lance and dirk practice. Then make a haggis out of him.
Regards,
Mary

[Nelliebean]

How about pushing him out of an airborn plane so he can feel what it's like to fall.

[ichabodius]

They should drop him off in the town center of Lockerbie.

[pvezz]

They should drop him off in the town center of Lockerbie.

Word.

[Alanwench]

Ugh. My goodnees. I can't imagine seeing my loved one like that. I don't blame them for demanding it be removed from circulation.

Do you know if she was the young woman whose body was found on someone's rosebushes or front porch?

[Alanwench]

Ali Mohmed al Megrah may be out of a Scottish prison early
because he has cancer.
This person killed 259 people 180 Americans as
well of 11 people on the ground.
On the Pan Am flight 103 back in Dec. 1988.
Just wondering about the families of the victims.

Push his ass out of a jet that's flying at the same altitude Pan Am 103 flew. An eye for an eye.

[Fool Moon]

They should drop him off in the town center of Lockerbie.

I like the way you think.

[Perdi]

I live on Long Island and I have seen the memorial that was erected on the shore in the area they went down.
May he rot in jail and die ever so slowly. Compassion my ass.
I am beyond disappointed in the Scots. I guess their Braveheart no quarter days are behind them.
The only thing I would settle for is giving him to the Black Watch for lance and dirk practice. Then make a haggis out of him.
Regards,
Mary

Och awar!!!!!!!!!!!

We are as Braveheart as ever thanks all the same!!! This isn't the decision of the Scottish people - believe you me!! This is a single individual in the Scottish Government who's decision it will be, and isn't yet confirmed.

....and that is one Haggis you have nae chance of getting me to eat!!