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Thread: Rev. Jim Jones and the People's Temple

  1. #151
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    That recording is so haunting... I just finished reading Seductive Poison by Deborah Layton. Really chilling. My boss had glasses just like Jim Jones and everytime he would speak, it just creeped me out because I kept thinking it was him lol

    Pvezz, I think that the woman who kept insisting that they go to Russia was Christine Miller..thank you Wikipedia.....

    On the death tape, only one Temple member, Christine Miller, openly disagreed with the decision for Temple members to commit what they had long referred to as "revolutionary suicide".[68] Miller argued that the Temple should attempt an alternative airlift to Russia. After several exchanges in which Jones argued that a Soviet exodus would not be possible, along with reactions by other temple members hostile to Miller, Miller backed down. However, Miller may have ceased dissenting when Jones confirmed at one point that "the congressman is dead" after members of his "Red Brigade" squad returned from the airstrip after shooting Ryan.[68]

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    I'm listening to it now. I just can't fathom how one person could convince that many people to kill themselves......
    did you notice how often the tape is stopped?
    gotta wonder what threats were being made, or what shots were being fired, before the recording started again.
    not all those people wanted to die. they were forced.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    I talked to my friend at work today about all this, and he remembered the gorilla. While he remembers that the gorilla wasn't cut up to fit in a body bag, one unlucky 385 lb man was. He said they took a chainsaw to him to get him in one.

    He said the reason why everyone was the same color, was because of the cyanide - the chemicals of the cyanide changes one's skin color to that purplish black color.

    It also makes the teeth fall out too. Some of the bodies they turned over had teeth coming out of their mouths.

    Yeah, it was all pretty gruesome out there. The smell was incredible and most of them wore face masks. He said you could smell the dead 4 miles away - at the landing strip they all fly in on.

    He said they all got on a plane and flew for 15 hours, not knowing where they were going. He was in charge of chemical stuff and they all thought they were going to some manuever somewhere.

    When the plan landed, their leader stood up and said, "Gentlemen, welcome to the New Guyana" and once that was said, they knew where they were and what they were going to have to do - especially once they stepped off the plane and took one whiff of the air.

    He said he's got a bunch of pictures he took of the dead and of around Jonestown. He was offered $25,000 at one point for his pictures, but he turned it down. He felt as if his pictures were worth a lot more than that!

    A couple of us at work have begged him to bring them in, but he said they are just too gruesome. I guess all of us only get to see the backs of the victims - he's got all kinds of pictures of people who's bodies exploded and stuff like that...
    Did the military offer any therapy to the people who did the cleanup?

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellfire View Post
    They had no choice. There were gunman with rifles trainned on anyone that tried to escape and he ordered people to be killed that didn't drink the stuff. What I don't understand is why they didn't turn on Jim. I guess brainwashed means just that.

    From what I've read/seen/looked up about Jonestown, that there were a few surivors that managed to get away for various reasons, I believe that was shown on that documentray, "Jonestown:Lost Paradise" but I'm not postive that's where I saw it. I remember someone said they had to go check for more people in the housing unit or something, and they hid under the house, another one did something similar. One person did pretend to be dead in a ditch, because the gunman were order to kill anyone that tried to leave.

    The other intresting thing I read at one point was that -obviosuly some people think he shot himself, others feel someone else shot him, we know he didn't take the posion- but I read that the gun that was used to kill Jim Jones was found about 20 feet away from him. To me and this is my opinion only, (based on my findings) that someone killed him before he could get away. I think he was going to try and make a get away with all that money that was being left to him.

    Overall it was a very tragic event, and I hope that the world never has to expierence this again.
    Last edited by chickababy8; 08-12-2008 at 10:44 PM. Reason: I wasn't done, accidently pushed enter when I wasn't ready.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickababy8 View Post
    From what I've read/seen/looked up about Jonestown, that there were a few surivors that managed to get away for various reasons, I believe that was shown on that documentray, "Jonestown:Lost Paradise" but I'm not postive that's where I saw it. I remember someone said they had to go check for more people in the housing unit or something, and they hid under the house, another one did something similar.
    There was an elderly woman named Hyacinth Thrash who hid under her bunk and survived. She died in 1995. I found her really impressive, as well as Christine Miller, who at least tried to talk some sense into them all.

    The more I immerse myself in this, the more I try to understand the man and his hold over these people, the more terrifying he becomes. From the distance of years and miles, he seems such a little man, such an obvious buffoon, someone no sane person would take seriously, and yet we know many did. I am reminded of a scripture that says the devil leads us carefully, little-by-little, down a path to hell. Religion aside, that is an excellent analogy for Jim Jones. He knew just how to entice these people into listening to him, then believing in him, then following him, then giving up everything for him. Each time I reach a moment of insight, I realize there are many others yet to be attained. We are all complex people, and I want to know every single nuance of this man's personality.
    Last edited by Laura Castellano; 08-12-2008 at 11:23 PM.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  6. #156
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    Yeah the poor woman always gets me too...then the sounds of the choking and screaming......just the terror she must have felt because she was basically pressured into drinking the juice...I keep thinking after the first swallow how the fear must have just been awful the waiting for the fisrt cramp..or whatever happens and when it starts knowing your body is dying !!! God can you imagine all the people having sezuires and convulsing out in that open field that night!! And then the dead silence.

  7. #157
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    thanks for the links of the pics..I wish the guy who was at the scene would show his pics!!!

  8. #158
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    the way they died was it very painful anyone tell me ??? I mean the type of stuff the used??

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    the way they died was it very painful anyone tell me ??? I mean the type of stuff the used??
    I'm not in the medical profession, but the people had to have suffered due to convulsions at the very least. There was foaming at the mouth, too.

  10. #160
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    Yes, all the time "Father" was standing up there telling them there was no pain involved, that it was just "stepping quietly over to the other side," while the people were having convulsions. So he pussied out and took a bullet instead of drinking the stuff himself.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  11. #161
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    Do you think Jones' nurse shot him and then herself? For all the posturing and fake suicides or insulin shock, etc. incidents, I don't think he had the balls to pull the trigger.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Castellano View Post
    Yes, all the time "Father" was standing up there telling them there was no pain involved, that it was just "stepping quietly over to the other side," while the people were having convulsions. So he pussied out and took a bullet instead of drinking the stuff himself.
    no pain involved, me arse.

    "The lethal dose of potassium or sodium cyanide is 200 to 300 mg and of hydrocyanic acid is 50 mg. Effects begin within seconds of inhalation and within 30 min of ingestion.

    Initial effects of poisoning - include headache, faintness, vertigo, excitement, anxiety, a burning sensation in the mouth and throat, breathing difficulty, increased heart rate, and hypertension. Nausea, vomiting, and sweating are common. A bitter almond odor may be detected on the breath.

    Later effects - include coma, convulsions, paralysis, respiratory depression, pulmonary edema, arrhythmias, bradycardia, and hypotension."

    taken from: http://www.manbir-online.com/diseases/cyanide.htm

  13. #163
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    Originally posted by Alanwench

    Do you think Jones' nurse shot him and then herself? For all the posturing and fake suicides or insulin shock, etc. incidents, I don't think he had the balls to pull the trigger.
    I suspect that's the case, although I haven't seen any writeup that really knows. They say he either shot himself or someone shot him. His wound was consistent with a suicide wound from a left-handed person, only he was right-handed. I imagine by the time the trigger was pulled he was so doped up he was on another planet anyway.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    no pain involved, me arse.

    "The lethal dose of potassium or sodium cyanide is 200 to 300 mg and of hydrocyanic acid is 50 mg. Effects begin within seconds of inhalation and within 30 min of ingestion.

    Initial effects of poisoning - include headache, faintness, vertigo, excitement, anxiety, a burning sensation in the mouth and throat, breathing difficulty, increased heart rate, and hypertension. Nausea, vomiting, and sweating are common. A bitter almond odor may be detected on the breath.

    Later effects - include coma, convulsions, paralysis, respiratory depression, pulmonary edema, arrhythmias, bradycardia, and hypotension."

    taken from: http://www.manbir-online.com/diseases/cyanide.htm
    Yep. Those kids on that tape weren't just screaming because they were scared, although I'm sure there was plenty of that, too. And that nurse, telling them, "They're not crying because they're in pain, it just tastes a little bitter." I'm pretty sure at that point she hadn't tried it!
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  15. #165
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    God it must have been madness those last few hours of death...

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    Do you think Jones' nurse shot him and then herself? For all the posturing and fake suicides or insulin shock, etc. incidents, I don't think he had the balls to pull the trigger.
    My friend who was there, said they found paperwork with detailed written instructions as to what was to happen, who was supposed to shoot who (after everyone else had drank the punch). Apparently a school teacher was the last one on the shooting line. She took her own life after she shot the last one - who had shot someone, and so forth.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    Did the military offer any therapy to the people who did the cleanup?
    I talked to him about that, and he said yes, they did get some - including him, since he had nightmares about it all for about 2 years. He would have dreams that the people were not really dead and were trying to get out of their bodybags, dreams of chasing after the trucks carrying the bodies trying to stop them - stuff like that.

    He said to this day, there is still a faint smell of death over there, since all those fluids that came out of the bodies and seeped into the ground, were "drank" by the trees in the area, so the trees are giving off that "aroma" of death out there.
    Last edited by Aries65; 08-14-2008 at 08:06 AM.

  18. #168
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    I'm glad your friend was able to get some therapy for the living hell he saw. There has been talk about people wanting to rebuild the Jonestown village, kind of like the way Auschwitz and other places are preserved so people don't forget what happened there.
    OMG! I never realized the smell of death would still permeate the Jonestown area. In a way, it's as if the spirits of those who died are still there without being ghosts. They 'haunt' the area with their fluids. That is just too eerie.

  19. #169
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    I was 10 years old, at the time, too. This was my second foray into "Death Haggary". From what I understand that was told in the Jonestown documentary, the people Jim Jones picked to join him in Guyana were mostly people who were receiving financial aid from the US Government. They would turn over their welfare checks to Jim Jones. I think I even heard that some of them still got their welfare checks mailed to them in Guyana.
    Most of these people were either elderly, or were estranged from their families. He especially went after people who he knew had a lack of self esteem. These people all believed that they could better themselves by moving to Guyana.
    I sincerely hope that history has taught America a lesson, by this example. Let's hope that no religious figure or politician can do that to a mass amount of people again. Hopefully, more people realize today that it is only yourself that can make you who you want to be. Do not let somebody else try to brainwash you into thinking that by only following their beliefs, you will be better off than you are now.

    "So many faces in and out of my life. Some will last, some will just be now and then. Life is a series of Hellos and Goodbyes, I'm afraid it's time for Goodbye again. "

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    He said to this day, there is still a faint smell of death over there, since all those fluids that came out of the bodies and seeped into the ground, were "drank" by the trees in the area, so the trees are giving off that "aroma" of death out there.
    one of my best friends and the mother of my godson--her family is originally from Guyana --and they go there maybe once a year or more depending on whatever is going on family wise.

    where they are from is not too far from there and they have said the same thing.

    so sad
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  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    I'm glad your friend was able to get some therapy for the living hell he saw. There has been talk about people wanting to rebuild the Jonestown village, kind of like the way Auschwitz and other places are preserved so people don't forget what happened there.
    I think that would be an excellent idea. I would love to visit Auschwitz. I don't think it's possible to really imagine the magnitude of these things until you stand in the places where they happened. Not for me, anyway. Nothing makes me bawl like a baby more than standing in the middle of the Alamo.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  22. #172
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    Just seeing the ruins of the buildings and those little yellow daisies would get me even before I noticed the smell that's supposed to come from the land and the trees.

  23. #173
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    Jim Jones childhood and early years was quite fascinating...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs8L57hWgLs

  24. #174
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    This is the most interesting site that I have found about Jonestown. It offers so much including autopsy reports and personal accounts from survivors including Stephan Jones. I find it amazing that so many politicians backed Jim Jones among them ....whats his name...Milk? He was also killed later in 1978, right? There is a copy of a letter on this site that he wrote defending J J to Pres. Carter if memory serves me right. Also First Lady Carter had lunch with J J at one point.
    http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/

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    okay so Im reading all about this online..he made sexay time with both men and women? And he would have sex with some women in fron of their husbands to keep them from defecting? Whaaattt??? How did his wife cops with all of this my God!

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    okay so Im reading all about this online..he made sexay time with both men and women? And he would have sex with some women in fron of their husbands to keep them from defecting? Whaaattt??? How did his wife cops with all of this my God!
    Lisamarie-Read Stephan Jones account about his mother and father in the above link to get a glimpse.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    thanks for the links of the pics..I wish the guy who was at the scene would show his pics!!!
    I've been working on it, and he might be lending them to me pretty soon. He has them all separated by "gruesome" and "not so gruesome". It's going to be hard for him to go thru them, since he spent some time in therapy because of what he saw and smelled there (the smell was REALLY bad he kept telling me).

    So, we'll see if I get them, and figure out a way to link to them from an album or something, since I know I won't be able to just post them up here - since some of the hags on this forum are a bit on the "squeamish" side...

  28. #178
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    i do not believe Jim ever intended to 'drink the kool aide'. I think he was shot by someone else who figured out he was going to be off and running with lots of stolen cash and was like--"oh no buddy--you're going down too"
    Lou: You know what? You've got spunk.Mary: Well, yes…Lou: I hate spunk.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by baroque1 View Post
    Lisamarie-Read Stephan Jones account about his mother and father in the above link to get a glimpse.
    That's the story I was trying to post. It's a very enlightening glimpse into the Jones family and what it was like to grow up with Jim Jones as a father.

  30. #180
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    Yes, Alan you are right that is the story you were going to post. Very interseting perspective, indeed. Thanks

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    I feel really sorry for hie poor wife ..thanks for that great link!!! Im reading away!

  32. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by baroque1 View Post
    This is the most interesting site that I have found about Jonestown. It offers so much including autopsy reports and personal accounts from survivors including Stephan Jones. I find it amazing that so many politicians backed Jim Jones among them ....whats his name...Milk? He was also killed later in 1978, right? There is a copy of a letter on this site that he wrote defending J J to Pres. Carter if memory serves me right. Also First Lady Carter had lunch with J J at one point.
    http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/
    Politicians will back pretty much anyone who is willing to give them support. Jones commanded a very large congregation in California, therefore he was politically powerful. I might be misremembering here, but I'm pretty sure I read that the lunch with Mrs. Carter was actually a lunch they both attended, not a private meeting between the two of them, although according to Wiki, they met together on several occasions.

    originally posted by lisamarie

    okay so Im reading all about this online..he made sexay time with both men and women? And he would have sex with some women in fron of their husbands to keep them from defecting? Whaaattt??? How did his wife cops with all of this my God!
    His wife also believed he had fathered a child by another woman. The child was with them in Jonestown, and was one of the catalysts for the end, although not the only one. I think the key to understand is to not look for logic. It'll drive you crazy.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  33. #183
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    I keep seeing the one shot of the two with their arm around eachother...so Im thinking they had all that time to understand what was happening to them to hold eachother and try to comfort eacother ...creepy...I keep imaging them all staggering out in the last throws of death coughing and hacking and the moaning with Jim Jones on those creepy loud speakers.....JHC!!!!!!!!! I cant believe this really happened!!!~!

  34. #184
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    What is everyone's feeling about the Guyana Tragedy: The Jim Jones Story with Powers Booth, and James Earl Jones?

    What a great movie, and Powers was excellent as Jones. He's one of my favorite actors.

  35. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    What is everyone's feeling about the Guyana Tragedy: The Jim Jones Story with Powers Booth, and James Earl Jones?

    What a great movie, and Powers was excellent as Jones. He's one of my favorite actors.
    I love this movie and I bought it. Powers Booth is amazing as Jones!

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by baroque1 View Post
    This is the most interesting site that I have found about Jonestown. It offers so much including autopsy reports and personal accounts from survivors including Stephan Jones. I find it amazing that so many politicians backed Jim Jones among them ....whats his name...Milk? He was also killed later in 1978, right? There is a copy of a letter on this site that he wrote defending J J to Pres. Carter if memory serves me right. Also First Lady Carter had lunch with J J at one point.
    http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/
    that is a really great site. thank-you!
    l was going down the list of victims, but it got way too depressing. especially looking at the pictures of the wee ones.

    l like the section with writings by survivors or surviving family members.
    really, really interesting perspectives.

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    I'm going to have to go to blockbuster and look for it.... I've never seen it

  38. #188
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    Here's a sneak peak...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRfDE9bndfg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EACO6UUOyo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Rabbit View Post
    I'm going to have to go to blockbuster and look for it.... I've never seen it

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    I wished I would have bought the movie on VHS because the DVD quality/sound is kind of crappy. Nonetheless it is still a great interpretation. I believe Powers Boothe won an Emmy for his performance.

  40. #190
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    wow...... I watched both of those clips (and a dozen others on Jim Jones)............... I wish I had the dvd now................ Powers was spooky as Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Rabbit View Post
    wow...... I watched both of those clips (and a dozen others on Jim Jones)............... I wish I had the dvd now................ Powers was spooky as Jim
    You can get it on Amazon for less than $5!

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    thanks for the heads up.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Rabbit View Post
    wow...... I watched both of those clips (and a dozen others on Jim Jones)............... I wish I had the dvd now................ Powers was spooky as Jim
    My God, Powers' portrayal of Jones was spot-on! It chilled me to the bone. My only critique is that they should've portrayed the real effects of Cyanide, etc. on those who ingested it either voluntarily or were murdered. No convulsions or pain and we now know that wasn't the case.
    Did Powers have access to the suicide tape made by Jones?

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    pretty sure he would get them so he could be spot on............. and he was from what I saw

  45. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica Rabbit View Post
    pretty sure he would get them so he could be spot on............. and he was from what I saw
    I just rented this from Amazon.com. The film is stored in my computer for one month and it was $2.99. Now I'll probably have nightmares from watching this, but the Death Hag in me doesn't want to wait until morning.

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    There's also another movie out there, "Guyana: Crime of of the Century, Cult of the Damned". They changed the names , but the story is the same and the cyanide part is pretty intense in this one!

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    Thanks, Aries. Much to my dismay, the download I rented from Amazon isn't complete. The film cuts off before the group gets to Guyana. Does anyone know where I can find the scenes of the group and Jim building Jonestown, etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    Thanks, Aries. Much to my dismay, the download I rented from Amazon isn't complete. The film cuts off before the group gets to Guyana. Does anyone know where I can find the scenes of the group and Jim building Jonestown, etc?
    Sounds as if you only got half the movie. It's about 3 hours (184 minutes) long! I'd just go ahead and buy the DVD from Amazon - but buy it used - since it's cheaper!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    Sounds as if you only got half the movie. It's about 3 hours (184 minutes) long! I'd just go ahead and buy the DVD from Amazon - but buy it used - since it's cheaper!
    Good idea, Aries, thanks. BTW, I love your Avatar. I have the Patsy Cline Collection of CDs and have always favored that particular portrait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    Good idea, Aries, thanks. BTW, I love your Avatar. I have the Patsy Cline Collection of CDs and have always favored that particular portrait.
    I got everything she ever recorded. I thought she looked pretty sexy in her cowgirl outfits!

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