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Thread: Rev. Jim Jones and the People's Temple

  1. #101
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  2. #102
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    Ooh, yes, I love this video! Sadly, when they are showing the piano, I swear all I see is plants.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

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    Powers Boothe was so incredible as Jim Jones. Seeing that movie on tv was the first time I ever heard o fit. I was very young & I didn't really even understand what was going on.

    I can't listen to the recording; I tried but my heart was racing & I was sick to my stomach. I heard the baby in the background & I couldn't do it.

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  4. #104
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    Yep, the little baby screaming from here to Pluto is what gets me too...I can't listen to it after that...

    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    Powers Boothe was so incredible as Jim Jones. Seeing that movie on tv was the first time I ever heard o fit. I was very young & I didn't really even understand what was going on.

    I can't listen to the recording; I tried but my heart was racing & I was sick to my stomach. I heard the baby in the background & I couldn't do it.

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    l just finished listening to the recording.
    the silence at the end is so sad. so sad.
    oh my god.

  6. #106
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    here's an album of some of the victims when they were alive:
    http://www.jones-town.org/modules/ex...p?id=1&start=0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    l just finished listening to the recording.
    the silence at the end is so sad. so sad.
    oh my god.
    I watched the documentary on Youtube, the one that commemorates the 25th anniversary of the tragedy. When the TV interviewer reaches what was the pavillion area, he comments on seeing "common daisies" on the ground. The man leading the party through the jungle witnessed all the action in Jonestown and they were relying on his memories to lead them to the proper location.
    The man tells the interviewer "Don't say that about the daisies." He went on to explain that where the bodies were found, little yellow daisies grew in clumps. Otherwise, the ground was covered with sawgrass and other vegetation. It was a haunting image to see those clumps of yellow flowers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    here's an album of some of the victims when they were alive:
    http://www.jones-town.org/modules/ex...p?id=1&start=0

    Oooh, thank you! I heard that existed, but hadn't located it. There is such a wealth of information on this topic that I almost feel like I'm drowning. I really want to have this presentation done in time for the 30th anniversary in November, so it's almost like a full-time job at this point. You fellow death hags have been SO helpful, thank you all!
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    I watched the documentary on Youtube, the one that commemorates the 25th anniversary of the tragedy. When the TV interviewer reaches what was the pavillion area, he comments on seeing "common daisies" on the ground. The man leading the party through the jungle witnessed all the action in Jonestown and they were relying on his memories to lead them to the proper location.
    The man tells the interviewer "Don't say that about the daisies." He went on to explain that where the bodies were found, little yellow daisies grew in clumps. Otherwise, the ground was covered with sawgrass and other vegetation. It was a haunting image to see those clumps of yellow flowers.
    I watched that again last night, and I was asking my very practical-minded, engineer-type husband what could make it happen that way. He said he thought it was probably superstition, and that the daisies didn't really grow only where the bodies lay. I said I was prepared to accept the statement as truth, but not prepared to accept a supernatural explanation for daisies only growing where the bodies lay. I'm wondering if someone went out and planted them after all the mess was cleaned up. Maybe relatives of some of the victims, as a sort of memorial. When I heard him say they weren't common and only grew where there had been bodies, it made me perk up and take notice. At first I thought there might be something in the body decomposition process that would be friendly to daisies, but I don't know enough about horticulture to even ask the question properly.
    Last edited by Laura Castellano; 08-09-2008 at 10:25 PM. Reason: I'm having a blonde day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Castellano View Post
    I watched that again last night, and I was asking my very practical-minded, engineer-type husband what could make it happen that way. He said he thought it was probably superstition, and that the daisies didn't really grow only where the bodies lay. I said I was prepared to accept the statement as truth, but not prepared to accept a supernatural explanation for daisies only growing where the bodies lay. I'm wondering if someone went out and planted them after all the mess was cleaned up. Maybe relatives of some of the victims, as a sort of memorial. When I heard him say they weren't common and only grew where there had been bodies, it made me perk up and take notice. At first I thought there might be something in the body decomposition process that would be friendly to daisies, but I don't know enough about horticulture to even ask the question properly.
    I wondered about that, too. It makes for a more sensational story and the guy who mentioned the flowers said that people in Guyana are very superstitious. Since I'm no expert in horticulture, I can't prove or disprove the theory about how the flowers got there.

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    I know jack about flowers and how they grow.

    I can not imagine anything in decomp that would make a flower grow. As a matter of fact, when we pick up dead bodies outside that are decomposing, everything around the body, underneath it, etc is all dead also! Now granted, I have never went back to any death scenes to check out what grew there after, but still....

    I have to take a look at the pictures again, but to me, it seemed like a lot of them were lying on makeshift platforms of wood or something? Some were on the dirt though. I need to look at the pics again.
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    Nice to see that the "daisies" are making people "think"...

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    This is an interview by Stephan Jones, Jim Jones son:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJURAVi6wpA

  14. #114
    OK, first I must explain why I pop up here then disappear for a while, just plain scheduling Sometimes I don't get to come here for weeks or months.
    Anyways, I know a *little* about horticulture and organic chemistry. A VERY little.
    Decomposition does lead to a healthier soil environment for plants. I mean we do use compost (which is decomposed plant) to make a healthier soil. But although in medical terms the bodies were fairly decomposed, really they werent. They were still in their basic forms as bodies (ie not skeletal with most of the flesh rotted, or decomposed, away). Anytime you have something with weight that blocks out light on top of the soil, nothing will hardly grow. However, once that item is removed, there is a possibility of more prolific growth. I've seen instances where animals were pretty much rotted away (just skeletal remains) and the spot had lush growth. Sorry, I feel I am rambling, I hope yall are following me. When a body decomposes, what it is doing in basic science terms is breaking down into its "ingredients". Results of this breaking down can be things like nitrogen, carbon, etc. Some of this things, like nitrogen, can be very beneficial to soil.
    This all being said, very little of the flesh was decomposed at Jonestown and things don't appear out of nowhere. I mean for those flowers to grow - there had to have come from somewhere to seed there. There is no such thing as spontaneous generation.

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    I agree with you, Southerngothic. That sounds very logical.

    Another thing I wanted to clear up is the Kool-Aid thing. The People's Temple used "Flavor Aid"...and not Kool-Aid. This has pissed the Kool-Aid folks off for many decades now...


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    IMHO, Jim Jones was either mentally unstable, arrogant, egotistical, or just sick. I prefer to think he might have been a bit of all of those. Please bear in mind, I was 10-12 years old when this happened, and remember very little about it, other than it was HUGE at the time it happened. Only things I can compare it to in today's terms would be the Heaven's Gate, Branch Davidians, People's Temple (the one I think is called this in China/Japan?).

    Just sad all the way around, especially with the numbers of children lost. May these souls all rest in peace forevermore. The Jim Jones of the world will answer to whatever higher power for their misdeeds here on earth.
    Last edited by sheri; 08-10-2008 at 05:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheri View Post
    IMHO, Jim Jones was either mentally unstable, arrogant, egotistical, or just sick. I prefer to think he might have been a bit of all of those.
    From what I can tell, you nailed it right there. He started out with enormous arrogance and ego, which grew as it was fed. The man needed to be adored. Plus, for the last few years of his life he was physically ill and hooked on a number of different substances. Oh, and add paranoia to the list. Major paranoia.

    The link a few posts above to the interview with his son, Stephan, is really good. There's another interview with Stephan when he was younger out on youtube that pretty much says the same stuff, only from a younger perspective.
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagorath View Post
    I agree with you, Southerngothic. That sounds very logical.

    Another thing I wanted to clear up is the Kool-Aid thing. The People's Temple used "Flavor Aid"...and not Kool-Aid. This has pissed the Kool-Aid folks off for many decades now...

    I think the reason why is because from what little I remember from this whole tragic event was that Kool Aid was used...or at least was referenced as being used as per all the media that latched on to the Kool Aid thing back in those days. I don't recall Flavor Aid ever being out at the time, just Kool Aid. Like I said in my prior post, I was all of 10-12 years old at the time this whole thing happened. Just so tragic on so many levels.

    I can understand wanting to believe in something higher than yourself, but to follow a human that is like this Jim Jones guy just creeps me out. I remember when I saw clips of the Heaven's Gate Applewhite guy I thought 'damn, he looks like hes completely wired on something, not a guy I want to have anything to do with' then that tragedy.

    I feel bad for the families that have to contend with this daily. RIP to all those lost to creeps like these fools (Jim Jones, et al).
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheri View Post
    I think the reason why is because from what little I remember from this whole tragic event was that Kool Aid was used...or at least was referenced as being used as per all the media that latched on to the Kool Aid thing back in those days. I don't recall Flavor Aid ever being out at the time, just Kool Aid. Like I said in my prior post, I was all of 10-12 years old at the time this whole thing happened. Just so tragic on so many levels.

    I can understand wanting to believe in something higher than yourself, but to follow a human that is like this Jim Jones guy just creeps me out. I remember when I saw clips of the Heaven's Gate Applewhite guy I thought 'damn, he looks like hes completely wired on something, not a guy I want to have anything to do with' then that tragedy.

    I feel bad for the families that have to contend with this daily. RIP to all those lost to creeps like these fools (Jim Jones, et al).
    I do remember it being Flavor-Aid as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid

    Flavor-Aid was not as well known and as such most people picked up on the brand name of Kool-Aid

    Flavor-Aid was first introduced in 1929

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor_Aid
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    [SIZE=4]"Policing Up the Bodies" by Jeff Brailey [/SIZE]





    (Ed. note: Jeff Brailey was the senior medic of the Joint Humanitarian Task Force sent to Guyana in November 1978 to retrieve the remains of the Peoples Temple members who died there. The following is excerpted from Chapter Eight of the unpublished revision to his book, The Ghosts of November. It tells how the difficult job of the Army mortuary specialists was performed. Warning: This article includes graphic and disturbing descriptions of the condition of the bodies as they were removed from Jonestown.
    (For more of Mr. Brailey’s writings on Peoples Temple, Jonestown and the US response to the deaths of November 18, please visit his blog at http://novemberghosts.blogspot.com . While he is no longer making new posts to the blog, there are several elements of interest, including links to other resources.
    (Mr. Brailey may be reached at wordworks2001@yahoo.com .)
    Although the jungle that surrounded Jonestown was abundant in fauna and rich in exotic flora, the natural beauty of the country was overshadowed by the ugliness and horrible stench that accompanies mass death. Extremely bloated bodies, deformed by so many hours of exposure to the heat of the tropical sun that they sometimes literally burst, depositing copious amounts of their putrid, foul-smelling contents to the ground, have a tendency to strike one blind to anything lovely.
    As soon as the entire GREGG [Graves Registration Group] team was together, all the soldiers working in Jonestown were briefed by Colonel Gordon. The preliminary work of identifying and evacuating the remains commenced. Jonestown was divided into grids and the bodies found in each individually numbered section were catalogued and tagged. Graves registration soldiers were team leaders of three to five man teams, consisting of infantry soldiers from the 193 rd Infantry Brigade in the Canal Zone.
    With teams of soldiers fanning out in all directions from the pavilion where the majority of the bodies lay, the full extent of the carnage became evident. Many who participated in this unique mission thought the identification process alone would be next to impossible. Comparatively few of the 913 bodies bore the homemade ID bracelets many family members attached to their wrists before ingesting the poisonous concoction that killed them, and even fewer had been identified by Odell Rhodes and his team of Jonestown survivor volunteers.
    The condition of the bodies four days after the mass murder/suicide made further visual identification impossible. Jim Jones was one of the few whose features and clothing provided enough proof of identity that the team felt confident when the put his body in the body bag. He was among the first to be catalogued.
    This inability to identify more victims was very disconcerting to the GREGG soldiers whose lives were dedicated to the processing of human remains after catastrophic events and who prided themselves on being able to identify most of the bodies at any mass death site.

    But the remains of the residents of Jonestown posed problems that the GREGG team had never encountered in such huge numbers. Very few of the dead carried wallets or wore jewelry. By Tuesday, the bodies were badly bloated with heads resembling those of severely hydrocephalic children. They were in such an advanced state of decomposition, recognition was impossible. The skin color of almost every victim was a dark blue-black, making it difficult to determine even the ethnicity or race of a corpse.
    The fact that nearly everyone who perished was either Caucasian or African-American and they now shared the same color was a strange irony, because the man they followed to their eternal grave, Jim Jones, remained recognizably Caucasian. It was as if members of the Peoples Temple finally achieved a form of equality in death that the evil pastor who masterfully orchestrated their demise did not share. Jim Jones, who preached racial equality from pulpits in Indianapolis to Ukiah and San Francisco all of his life, in the end became the only person in his flock that did not achieve it.
    Name tags were sewn into most of the clothing worn by the residents of Jonestown. Unfortunately, the communal lifestyle made for the sharing of wardrobes. Many of the dead wore clothing with three or four different names, none of which actually were their own.

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    Has anyone found the video of the shootings at the airstrip where Congressman Leo Ryan was shot and killed? NBC camerman Bob Brown was filming and did catch part of the shootings on film before he too, was shot dead. I saw a screen shot on Wiki, but have not looked for the film of the shootings. Maybe it has never been released?
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    Part 2

    The task of identifying the bodies was more foul than placing the remains into the body bags. During the identification process, bodies had to be individually checked, pockets turned inside-out and any ID bracelets read and recorded. This meant handling and touching each rapidly decomposing remains, many of which already displayed millions of eggs lain by the incredible horde of flies drawn to the scene. Maggots covered the entire area where the Jonestown dead lay.
    One common form of life usually found wherever death occurs in the tropics was conspicuously missing from the skies over Jonestown. One can only speculate about the absence of buzzards or vultures. These scavenger birds are as common in the warmer climes as cardinals in Missouri. Perhaps these birds that feed off carrion and keep the environment clean, realized the men, women and children of Jonestown died from the ingestion of a deadly poison. We may never know what caused the buzzards to stay away from Jonestown, but for me, an old tropical soldier and longtime resident of South Texas where the big birds are common, their absence added to the surreal scene.
    The first attempts to pick up the bodies by grasping their heads and limbs and lifting them into the body bags more often than not caused a limb or two, or even the head, to become disconnected from the bloated liquid-filled torso. When this happened, a foul, thick, serous fluid would stream from the body part being held by a hapless soldier and an even larger amount would flow from the torso as it landed on the ground. Because the bodies were in such close proximity to one another, it wasn’t long before the soil in Jonestown became a muddy mixture of dirt and smelly body fluids.
    In Jonestown there was no escaping the odor. Men and women who a week ago were anticipating a Thanksgiving with family and friends were hard at the job of tagging and bagging bodies where they lay. They then loaded the bags onto the same flatbed trailer used a few days before to carry Peoples Temple assassins to Port Kaituma to kill a congressman and some of his entourage. A tractor then pulled the loaded trailer over 28 miles of dirt road to Matthews Ridge, the only available place to land the helicopters used for the evacuation. The bodies were then placed directly onto the Jolly Green Giants and flown 150 miles to Timehri Airport. They were then put on trucks for a short ride to an area where they would be logged in and – finally – placed in aluminum coffins for transport to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware.

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    Part 3
    Every hour, the U.S. Army communications specialist in Jonestown radioed the number of bodies that had been bagged in that time. Our U.S. Air Force communications station at Matthews Ridge received the tally and kept a running total, relaying the data to task force headquarters in Timehri Airport.
    The first hourly report said fewer than 10 bodies were bagged. A similar count came in for hour number two. Then, when we were expecting the hour three total to come across the radio, Jonestown sent us what we thought was an unusual request.
    “Tell HQ we need snow shovels,” was the curt request. Snow shovels? Guyana is a tropical country that has never seen snow. Now they wanted as many snow shovels as we could provide them. A call for six dozen of the cold weather implements was dutifully relayed to the task force headquarters at Timehri Airport. From there the call went out to the U.S. Air Force Base in Charleston, South Carolina. The first shipment of snow shovels reached Jonestown within six hours of the original request.
    With the arrival of these simple tools, so alien to this region of the world, the process of placing the rotten remains into body bags was streamlined considerably. Usually six or eight soldiers with the shovels – three or four on each side of the very fragile body – lifted it in unison, a foot or so off of the ground. Two other soldiers then slid an open body bag under the suspended corpse, the snow shovels were lowered, and the remains gently deposited into the body bag.
    This procedure sounds simple, but it wasn’t always successful. Body fluids continued to flow freely from orifices and breaks in the skin, creating a gooey, slippery, smelly mess. Sometimes a heavy head, swollen to twice its normal size, slipped from the shovel and fell to the earth with a thud after being severed from the fragile neck.
    After employment of the snow shovels, there was a definite and noticeable increase in the GREGG team’s productivity that was reflected in the numbers. By the end of Day One, nearly 100 bodies were evacuated to Timehri Airport.
    Much speculation has been made by the original discrepancy in the number of dead. The first released numbers took into account the GDF estimate coupled with the fact that only 400 passports were found. Members of the GREGG team, who had hands-on experience in Jonestown learned how that estimate was so wrong.
    It appears the infants and toddlers, who had the poisonous potion forced down their throats by their mothers using needle-less five and ten ml. syringes, represented the biggest uncounted group. Their convulsing bodies were placed on the bottom of a rather large but fairly shallow concave area next to the pavilion. Larger children followed the younger ones in death and lay themselves on top of the little ones. Next came preadolescents and adolescents, making up more layers of victims. Then the teens took their last drink on earth and their place among their friends and siblings who died before them.
    While all the younger residents of Jonestown were dying. Jones encouraged some of the mothers to join their offspring, so the distraught parents began joining the deadly act of communion. The senior citizens were the next group Jim Jones commanded to drink the devil’s brew. These people became part of a pile that was not discerned as a pile because of the concavity of the terrain. The last group to participate in the White Night was the able bodied members of the cult, men who had carried out Jones’ dirty work, those who held weapons on the others while forcing them to drink the deadly Fla-Vor-Aid. Most of their bodies were found on the periphery of the mass of dead in the concave area.
    November 27 marked our last day in Guyana and the official end to the mission that brought more than 200 American servicemen and women to this tropical country that seemed a million miles from home. I stood on the hot tarmac at Timehri Airport, thinking of how this country that I had never heard of before would be remembered by most of my generation. It will always be the place where the Jonestown Massacre happened, at least in my mind.


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    Part 4

    I watched as the last helicopter that left Jonestown touched down. I remained an observer, as extremely tired and thoroughly stressed out young American soldiers began removing the last remains.
    The repetitive robot-like movements of these men and women as they picked up body bags from the helicopter, walked to the tailgate of a nearby truck and deposited their human cargo, was punctuated by their masklike faces, completely devoid of any emotion. Their uniforms were soaked with body fluids and sweat, damaged beyond repair.
    As I gazed upon the scene, Colonel Gordon, the gruff no-nonsense joint task force commander approached. “Brailey,” he barked as he returned my salute, “Did y’all bring a psych tech with you from Panama?”
    “No sir,” I answered. “Why?”
    “They were trying to put that dead go-rilla into a body bag,” he claimed.
    Mr. Muggs was a huge chimpanzee Jones kept in a cage near his cottage. It was rumored that small children were placed in the cage with the old primate as a form of punishment.
    I had seen Mr. Muggs during my first tour of Jonestown a week earlier. He had been shot to death. That dead chimp smelled much worse than any of the human remains.
    Gordon went on, “They kept tryin’ to push that big go-rilla’s shoulders into the body bag, but they just couldn’t get it zipped up. I watched them for a few minutes until one of them graves registration guys was gonna hack its shoulders off with a machete.”
    “Hold it, I commanded,” said Colonel Gordon in a loud voice to replicate the one he used in Jonestown, “Why are you gonna hack that go-rilla up?”
    “Because he won’t fit into the body bag, sir,” came the respectful reply from the ringleader of the practical jokers.
    “But why are you putting him in a body bag anyway?” came the exasperated question of the colonel.
    “Why, sir? Why? Just wait until they open this one in Dover!” was the devilish reply of the leering GREGG soldier.
    Gordon said he looked down at the group and said, “Look, men, I don’t mind you playin’ a joke on them folks up in Dover. But I won’t let you mutilate that poor go-rilla just to fit him into a body bag.”
    Colonel Gordon said he watched the four GREGG soldiers work for several more minutes trying to stuff Mr. Muggs into the bag. Then he walked away, shaking his head and believing Mr. Muggs was left behind in Jonestown.
    (Author’s note: In the first edition of this book, written in 1998, I reported that Mr. Muggs was the only Jonestown resident from the United States who remained in Guyana. I was wrong. The mortuary affairs specialist who opened a body bag at Dover that was occupied by a gorilla told me the truth after he read my book.)

    -30-




  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    Has anyone found the video of the shootings at the airstrip where Congressman Leo Ryan was shot and killed? NBC camerman Bob Brown was filming and did catch part of the shootings on film before he too, was shot dead. I saw a screen shot on Wiki, but have not looked for the film of the shootings. Maybe it has never been released?
    I've read so much that it's kind of a blur, but I think a link to this, or perhaps the film itself is at the jonestown.sdsu.edu website.

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    Thanks A, this is hard reading but it's very good. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    Thanks A, this is hard reading but it's very good. Thank you.
    You're welcome. When I found this, I knew it had to go here. The images are seared into my brain right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    Has anyone found the video of the shootings at the airstrip where Congressman Leo Ryan was shot and killed? NBC camerman Bob Brown was filming and did catch part of the shootings on film before he too, was shot dead. I saw a screen shot on Wiki, but have not looked for the film of the shootings. Maybe it has never been released?
    I know I've seen it, I'm pretty sure it's on youtube.

    And thanks for the article, Alan!
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Castellano View Post
    I know I've seen it, I'm pretty sure it's on youtube.

    And thanks for the article, Alan!
    You're welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    Has anyone found the video of the shootings at the airstrip where Congressman Leo Ryan was shot and killed? NBC camerman Bob Brown was filming and did catch part of the shootings on film before he too, was shot dead. I saw a screen shot on Wiki, but have not looked for the film of the shootings. Maybe it has never been released?
    this video includes the footage of him getting shot while filming.
    you see the gunman turn to him, shoot, then... nothing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=844Hv...eature=related

    l found it really hard to watch the men talking about their loved ones dying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    this video includes the footage of him getting shot while filming.
    you see the gunman turn to him, shoot, then... nothing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=844Hv...eature=related

    l found it really hard to watch the men talking about their loved ones dying.
    I have seen part of this one before, but must have missed the short clip of the shooting.

    "The Congressman is dead"

    I always felt so very sad for Leo Ryan. All he wanted to do was help. That poor man and his camerman.
    Winners are losers...who got up and gave it one more try ~ Dennis Deyoung

  33. #133
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    What's really sad is those people had to hear all of Jim Jone's mad "speeches and proclamations" about the state of the world (via loudspeaker)...Jones was FULL of demons in the end.

  34. #134
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    Jim Jones' son recalls his father.

    This article is from a book-length work-in-progress. Stephan Jones may be reached at moreheart1@comcast.net.
    Dad took me for a little drive one night. In my ten years, he had done that only rarely. I didn't question it. I was out with my Dad, special for the moment. We traveled east on what I now know was California Highway 20, a dark and deserted road after nightfall. I remember nothing of the ride, other than feeling small, tiny. I had always felt little with Dad -- there wasn't room for me; his will and wants took up a lot of space -- but as I replay that night, I am a waif, swallowed by the seat, barely able to see out of the car.


    >I'm standing outside a house I've never seen before, bathed by the light coming through the open front door. Dad is straddling the threshold, beckoning to me, pulling at the cold air between us. He's drawing me toward a woman standing about six feet inside the house. She is facing me, smiling nervously. She is a stranger. His eyes are smiling, his lips are moving; I hear nothing. I know that I'm being introduced to a very special person. Special because she is special to Dad.

  35. #135
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    This story is a must-see. I couldn't the rest of it up here due to my stupidity where computer matters are concerned. Jim Jones' only biological son with his first wife tells an incredible tale of Jim's mind games and drug usage many years before Jonestown was considered.
    The entire story is at Alternate Considerations of Jonestown, just enter the name into Google or another search engine.

  36. #136
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    tape

    What makes me sick is hearing Jim Jones telling everyone to stop the hysterics, die with dignity. You drink the poison, chicken shit. And the pictures of the little children are so heartbreaking.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubbiecatz View Post
    What makes me sick is hearing Jim Jones telling everyone to stop the hysterics, die with dignity. You drink the poison, chicken shit. And the pictures of the little children are so heartbreaking.
    I know! The whole time he's yelling at them, I'm yelling back, "You first, asshole!"
    Just drink lots of Kool-Aid, and take one of these blue pills three times a day.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Castellano View Post
    I know! The whole time he's yelling at them, I'm yelling back, "You first, asshole!"
    According to one of the articles by Jones' son, Jim loved to stage emotional scenes, even faking possible death when the son was quite young. He was building a serious addiction to Quaaludes before his son turned 12.
    I just can't bring myself to listen to the tapes all the way and I sincerely hope that there's a special corner of hell just for Jim Jones.

  39. #139
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    CRS is striking again, I forgot to add a bit from Jones' son's article. In Guyana, a very drugged Jim tells his son he's getting another B-12 injection and his son knew that was bullshit. His father goes on to say something to the effect of, "So what if I fuck better than you? That's what's bothering you, isn't it?" His son wanted to kill him on the spot.

  40. #140
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    "Dad" obviously liked getting tail.

  41. #141
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    Oh, yes, with men and women according to some accounts. He also had to be in control at all times and had to be the 'top dog' in everyone's eyes. There was a time he was pretending to be Lenin and wandered into a swamp. He did sink a few inches, but it wasn't like movie quicksand. His son said Jim suddenly 'came to' and asked what he was doing there. Jones' son was tempted to walk away and leave him, but he helped him out.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    ... He did sink a few inches, but it wasn't like movie quicksand. His son said Jim suddenly 'came to' and asked what he was doing there. Jones' son was tempted to walk away and leave him, but he helped him out.
    ah man!!
    how many lives could have been saved if he had let him sink!!

  43. #143
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    I thought of that, too, but Jones' son said that there was no way his dad would sink more than a couple of inches. They even squared off against each other with guns pointed at the other's head. At least his son seems to be at peace with his past and his dad, although he went through living hell and drug abuse before he got himself together.

  44. #144
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    I wish there were better pictures of the dead bodies...anyone know were there are clearer shots??

  45. #145
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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cubistl...re/1863227548/



    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    I wish there were better pictures of the dead bodies...anyone know were there are clearer shots??

  46. #146
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    has anyone read the Tales of the City Series--and all the talk about ole Jim? when they think he is alive etc.
    Lou: You know what? You've got spunk.Mary: Well, yes…Lou: I hate spunk.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    Part 4

    “They were trying to put that dead gorilla into a body bag,” he claimed.
    Mr. Muggs was a huge chimpanzee Jones kept in a cage near his cottage. It was rumored that small children were placed in the cage with the old primate as a form of punishment.
    I had seen Mr. Muggs during my first tour of Jonestown a week earlier. He had been shot to death. That dead chimp smelled much worse than any of the human remains.
    Gordon went on, “They kept tryin’ to push that big gorilla’s shoulders into the body bag, but they just couldn’t get it zipped up. I watched them for a few minutes until one of them graves registration guys was gonna hack its shoulders off with a machete.”
    “Hold it, I commanded,” said Colonel Gordon in a loud voice to replicate the one he used in Jonestown, “Why are you gonna hack that gorilla up?”
    “Because he won’t fit into the body bag, sir,” came the respectful reply from the ringleader of the practical jokers.
    “But why are you putting him in a body bag anyway?” came the exasperated question of the colonel.
    “Why, sir? Why? Just wait until they open this one in Dover!” was the devilish reply of the leering GREGG soldier.
    Gordon said he looked down at the group and said, “Look, men, I don’t mind you playin’ a joke on them folks up in Dover. But I won’t let you mutilate that poor go-rilla just to fit him into a body bag.”
    Colonel Gordon said he watched the four GREGG soldiers work for several more minutes trying to stuff Mr. Muggs into the bag. Then he walked away, shaking his head and believing Mr. Muggs was left behind in Jonestown.
    (Author’s note: In the first edition of this book, written in 1998, I reported that Mr. Muggs was the only Jonestown resident from the United States who remained in Guyana. I was wrong. The mortuary affairs specialist who opened a body bag at Dover that was occupied by a gorilla told me the truth after he read my book.)

    -30-


    I talked to my friend at work today about all this, and he remembered the gorilla. While he remembers that the gorilla wasn't cut up to fit in a body bag, one unlucky 385 lb man was. He said they took a chainsaw to him to get him in one.

    He said the reason why everyone was the same color, was because of the cyanide - the chemicals of the cyanide changes one's skin color to that purplish black color.

    It also makes the teeth fall out too. Some of the bodies they turned over had teeth coming out of their mouths.

    Yeah, it was all pretty gruesome out there. The smell was incredible and most of them wore face masks. He said you could smell the dead 4 miles away - at the landing strip they all fly in on.

    He said they all got on a plane and flew for 15 hours, not knowing where they were going. He was in charge of chemical stuff and they all thought they were going to some manuever somewhere.

    When the plan landed, their leader stood up and said, "Gentlemen, welcome to the New Guyana" and once that was said, they knew where they were and what they were going to have to do - especially once they stepped off the plane and took one whiff of the air.

    He said he's got a bunch of pictures he took of the dead and of around Jonestown. He was offered $25,000 at one point for his pictures, but he turned it down. He felt as if his pictures were worth a lot more than that!

    A couple of us at work have begged him to bring them in, but he said they are just too gruesome. I guess all of us only get to see the backs of the victims - he's got all kinds of pictures of people who's bodies exploded and stuff like that...

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeny994 View Post
    has anyone read the Tales of the City Series--and all the talk about ole Jim? when they think he is alive etc.
    I've never read the books, but I do have the whole Showtime series on DVD, and a couple of the characters went to Jonestown.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    l just finished listening to the recording.
    the silence at the end is so sad. so sad.
    oh my god.

    I'm listening to it now. I just can't fathom how one person could convince that many people to kill themselves......
    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    The only reason I watched the entire thing was because I was wondering who the middle aged lesbian white woman was in the house full of Armenians. Then I found out it was Bruce Jenner.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    I'm listening to it now. I just can't fathom how one person could convince that many people to kill themselves......
    Who is the woman who keeps suggesting to him that they go to Russia??
    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    The only reason I watched the entire thing was because I was wondering who the middle aged lesbian white woman was in the house full of Armenians. Then I found out it was Bruce Jenner.

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