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Thread: Laquan MacDonald Shooting - Chicago

  1. #1
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    Laquan MacDonald Shooting - Chicago

    This shooting occurred in October 2014 - the police dash cam video is to be released by Wednesday Nov 25 and it reportedly doesn't look good.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/23/us/laq...deo/index.html

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    a perp holding a knife within 20 feet of you is considered an armed weapon to a police officer. Let's see how this washes out.
    To my Father. Even though you have crossed the plane, you will always be with me.
    You were not just my Father, but my hero. My life has been a poor attempt to be like you
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    March 1934-July 2016

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    I'll be very interested to see this video, I'm curious how the boy was acting before he was shot. 16 times sure sounds like overkill. So I didn't get this from the article, I'm going to have to do some research, but is this a closed investigation? We are going through a police shooting here right now, where Black Lives Matter are demanding the release of the video evidence but the state will not because it's an open investigation through the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension and they have also called in the FBI. There are violent protests, blocking freeways (I don't know a ton of people but I know 2 people who had hundreds of dollars in damages to their vehicles because of this group) and BLM has been occupying the Fourth Precinct (North side, predominantly the bad part of town) for days now. This just happened like a week ago though. They said the videos will be released when the investigation is over.

    I know here that even after the BCA investigates this and comes to a conclusion the case will be heard by a grand jury, who will decide if charges should be filed. The main difference in the one here is that IMO it sounds completely justified. The problem is that people came out and saw this kid handcuffed after he was shot and then started the story that he was shot after he was cuffed. No, I don't believe so. Police procedure is to cuff a person after reducing a threat, even if that person has been killed. If the video shows something else I'll be the first to apologize. This was a guy who had beat up his girlfriend, she called the cops, then he fled, and when the ambulance came he came back and was assaulting EMTs and trying to assault his girlfriend more and he was shot.

    So yeah. If this Chicago cop was in the wrong he's an idiot. He knew he had the dashcam going, which I'm thankful for, because now officers who want to be assholes and give every one of them a bad name will be exposed.

    eta: Even if the kid was 20 feet away, if he won't drop the knife when instructed, he is a threat to the public. Also the officer is safe at that distance but doesn't really have a way to safely disarm the kid. It's not always a clear issue. They say shoot to kill, but if you have clearly stopped the threat you don't continue shooting if you didn't kill them. It's kind of confusing, but I guess I'm saying that if the kid was down and had dropped the knife just reflexively after being shot the first time there was no reason to keep shooting. I pray to God I am never in that situation should I be fortunate enough to get a job in LE, but I'd like to think I would not be shooting at a person who is already shot, on the ground and unarmed. This is all so pointless. I know cops can be bad and racist and do the wrong thing, but I also don't understand why people can't just do what the officers say, especially when they are armed and won't drop the weapon. I don't mean to victim blame but seriously how many of these could be avoided if the person had just done what they were told? Not all of them, because there are bad cops, but I'd guess the vast majority of them would be.
    Last edited by atomicbettie; 11-23-2015 at 07:12 PM.


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    the officer has been charged with first degree murder

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0258edb32fd13

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    "The city has already reached a settlement with McDonald's family, agreeing in April to pay $5 million, though the family had not filed a lawsuit."

    The video must be really, really bad, can't think of any other reason why brokeass Chicago would shell out that kind of money without a lawsuit.

    I think they delayed releasing it hoping crappy weather and the holiday would limit the protests.

    6 other men died of gunshots last weekend in Chicago, but they weren't shot by cops, no protests will take place.
    Morgan

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    I agree, there has to be some reason the city doled out that much cash, without the family even asking?

    I'm still curious to find out what was going on behind the scenes, and I can't seem to find the info I'm looking for. Sounds like a lot of people are suspicious that the cop is now charged (and overcharged imo) just because the video is coming out. But when they said they would release the video with a date (tomorrow) was that date because that was after the grand jury was expected to make it's decision? I guess I'm trying to find out what was going on in this last year, and was a grand jury already looking at this, which I assume it was because they are needed for the proc. to press charges.

    A few other things. As I mentioned I think he's being overcharged. That is not because I'm on the cops side, it's because I don't understand how a case where he is claiming self defense, and didn't know the victim beforehand, could he have premeditated it. Now some people are saying they are overcharging because they are hoping to overcome the burden of proof, but I was under the impression that when they charge with 1st the jury can convict on lesser charges.

    I really just can't get over the 16 shots, especially some in the back. I'm very interested to see what the videos show, if he was in fact retreating.


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    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...124-story.html

    State's Attorney Anita Alvarez said "the video showed McDonald lying on the ground while shots continued to strike his body and the pavement near him, with puffs of debris kicking up and his arms and body jerking as he was struck. Van Dyke’s partner told authorities there was a brief pause in the shots and he saw Van Dyke reloading, so he told Van Dyke to hold his fire so he could approach and disarm him."

    So the cop emptied a 16 shot clip into him and reloaded to continue shooting him.

    14-15 seconds between the first and last shot, MacDonald was walking away from the officer when the shooting started.

    Yeah, this shit is going to be bad.
    Last edited by TheWrath of MadelineKahn; 11-24-2015 at 01:40 PM.
    Morgan

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    Shot after he was in handcuffs? If that's the case and they have it on video he should absolutely be charged with murder, since he was already disarmed and not a threat. Our case shows the guy in cuffs after he was shot, which is confusing some people, but having video of it the other way around is a whole different case.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWrath of MadelineKahn View Post
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...124-story.html

    State's Attorney Anita Alvarez said "the video showed McDonald lying on the ground while shots continued to strike his body and the pavement near him, with puffs of debris kicking up and his arms and body jerking as he was struck. Van Dyke’s partner told authorities there was a brief pause in the shots and he saw Van Dyke reloading, so he told Van Dyke to hold his fire so he could approach and disarm him."

    So the cop emptied a 16 shot clip into him and reloaded to continue shooting him.

    14-15 seconds between the first and last shot, MacDonald was walking away from the officer when the shooting started.

    Yeah, this shit is going to be bad.
    YUp...his butt is done. I think as long as they prosecute the protests should be minimal. But who knows
    To my Father. Even though you have crossed the plane, you will always be with me.
    You were not just my Father, but my hero. My life has been a poor attempt to be like you
    You taught me music, vocals, and how to fight. I can only hope I am half the man you are
    When I close my eyes I can see you. And finally, Thank you Dad. for everything.
    March 1934-July 2016

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    Last edited by cash; 11-24-2015 at 04:06 PM.

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    I was just coming to post this, don't know if it's the same one, or if any of the driving part was edited out.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix2N6_jLAgA
    You don't see Laquan until just after 5 min. in. I can only distinctly tell 6 or so shots but I know there were 16 and none of them were required after the initial one knocked him down, if even that one. He did look pretty determined and pissed off (made me think of Michael Myers the way he was just walking with that knife) and obviously didn't give a shit that the police were there and wasn't going to do what they said, so I could mayyyyybe see them saying he was a threat to the public, but ONLY for that first shot. If it's true the guy claims he did it because he was in fear for his life? No.


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    Quite frankly, I thought the video would be much worse.

    All the buildup to this through the Chicago media made it sound like the video was more of a close up, that you could see the impact of each of the shots, and multiple sources were saying he was in handcuffs, but he wasn't.

    I don't even see how he was shot in the back more than once, as his body appeared to be facing the shooting officer.
    Last edited by TheWrath of MadelineKahn; 11-24-2015 at 09:39 PM.
    Morgan

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    I read a report where the officer emptied his gun into Laquan and then reloaded, why the hell would you shoot someone already down on the ground that many more times, I hate to say it but this time the officer deserves whatever he is going to get sentenced with, life, death or whatever. , I can see shooting him once in the leg maybe to get him to stop and drop to the ground then put him in cuffs.
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

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    First of all, IMO this cop was wrong. But as for reloading.....there is nothing more useless then an empty gun. Maybe his friends are coming around the corner....who knows. If you carry a gun, you always have a full clip in the grip. That being said...I saw the video. Either this guy was the worst shot on the police force,,,,or he is a 2nd degree murderer at least. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice....not 14x
    To my Father. Even though you have crossed the plane, you will always be with me.
    You were not just my Father, but my hero. My life has been a poor attempt to be like you
    You taught me music, vocals, and how to fight. I can only hope I am half the man you are
    When I close my eyes I can see you. And finally, Thank you Dad. for everything.
    March 1934-July 2016

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    I don't think he'll get life or death, I don't see them convicting him of 1st degree homicide in this case.

    So I've heard the conspiracy theory people saying that they are charging him with 1st degree because they don't believe a jury will convict of that. I agree on the last point. But I thought that when they are charged with a crime such as first degree, the jury is allowed to "decide down" and say it wasn't 1st degree, but it was 2nd or Manslaughter. I thought they had that option in the Casey Anthony case. Am I remembering wrong? I thought they could convict of a lesser charge but not of a higher one than the prosecutor initially puts up.


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    What I was trying to say is he reloaded and proceeded to shoot him again.
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

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    He didn't shoot any more after he reloaded. From what I understand those gun hold 15 or 16 rounds plus one in the chamber. He was reloading when his partner kicked the knife out of his hand, and called him off from shooting any more. I think what mcafgr was saying is that he could have just been reloading because they are not to have an unloaded gun, it doesn't necessarily mean he was going to shoot the kid more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    What I was trying to say is he reloaded and proceeded to shoot him again.
    Understood. The video I saw is hard to see as to when he reloaded. That being said, this video would not look good for the cop anyway you view it.
    To my Father. Even though you have crossed the plane, you will always be with me.
    You were not just my Father, but my hero. My life has been a poor attempt to be like you
    You taught me music, vocals, and how to fight. I can only hope I am half the man you are
    When I close my eyes I can see you. And finally, Thank you Dad. for everything.
    March 1934-July 2016

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    Bettie, I read it in an article from an eye witness statement, He fired eight times the first time and then proceeded to reload and shoot eight more times.
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

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    Well, just be careful of eyewitness statements, they are notoriously bad. I haven't started my skills training so I'm no expert on the matter yet but I'd say there wasn't any reload time in the video while he was shooting. I heard the only reason he has stopped was because he was reloading and that gave his partner the time to go and kick the knife away, so I'm assuming it was taking him some amount of time.

    WoMK posted a link a few replies up that is also quoted saying it was a 16 round clip and pointed out the whole shooting, all 16 shots lasted about 15 seconds, I don't think that's enough time to reload in there.

    Here's the thing. People hear 16 shots. they think of gun that hold 6 or however many bullets. Then they see (or more likely hear) a shooting and hear 16 shots and they tell someone that and either they, or someone else, says well that's a lot for a gun, he had to have reloaded. Then it turns into that story, and it gets reported. Same with reports that people had heard that he was handcuffed when shot. Just like happened here, they probably handcuffed him after the shooting, as it is police procedure, then witnesses come out of their house after hearing but not seeing what's going on, and then they start reporting a man in handcuffs was shot and extrapolate that into a "fact" in their mind that he was shot WHILE in handcuffs. Eyewitness testimony is rarely very accurate, especially the more detail you are getting into.
    Last edited by atomicbettie; 11-28-2015 at 08:37 AM.


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    Murder, plain and simple.

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    This cop is toast. Another cop stopped him from actually shooting at him again according to the report I read. The man was already down, and no longer posed a threat and THAT is what the prosecution is going to argue (and more than likely be successful). Not looking good for him...
    By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next.
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    Police Chief Garry McCarthy was fired today.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/chicago-...onald-fallout/

    They're also going after the States Attorney, Anita Alvarez but they might have to let her slide.

    I can see the city's point in firing the chief as damage control, but the city council approved the $5 million settlement this spring, there is no way the Mayor can say he didn't know about the case.

    I hadn't heard this before

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ideo-explainer

    "Earlier this year, a district manager for the Burger King chain told a federal grand jury that several police officers had entered a Burger King near the scene of the shooting shortly after the incident and deleted 86 minutes of footage from the restaurant's security cameras."

    Yeah, Chicago, it hasn't changed at all since The Untouchables roamed the streets.
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    cop found guilty of second degree murder.

    https://nypost.com/2018/10/05/jason-...hooting-trial/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcafgr View Post
    First of all, IMO this cop was wrong. But as for reloading.....there is nothing more useless then an empty gun. Maybe his friends are coming around the corner....who knows. If you carry a gun, you always have a full clip in the grip. That being said...I saw the video. Either this guy was the worst shot on the police force,,,,or he is a 2nd degree murderer at least. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice....not 14x
    An empty Gun and a dull Knife are useless. I'm betting there will still be some rioting, free stuff , ya know.
    Some days, you get the Bear, other days the Bear gets you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangitbawb View Post
    This cop is toast. Another cop stopped him from actually shooting at him again according to the report I read. The man was already down, and no longer posed a threat and THAT is what the prosecution is going to argue (and more than likely be successful). Not looking good for him...
    So true, hope the cop spends the rest of his life in Prison.
    In that he knows what he did.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    An empty Gun and a dull Knife are useless. I'm betting there will still be some rioting, free stuff , ya know.
    nope, no rioting just people happy about the cop getting
    what was coming to him.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

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