Nine dead in church shooting in Charleston

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

There's been conceal to carry laws on the books for years. I've not yet heard a story where one of these "heroes" have stopped a massacre. So I'm wondering why the gun lovers continue to scream about there needing to be guns everywhere when it's not a deterrent or a solution. Obviously. I'm all for responsible gun ownership. I'm also for responsible and strict gun laws on the books and those laws being enforced. It should be difficult to get a gun. It's insane for it to be so easy to get these weapons. I'm even fine with conceal to carry to be honest. Just so long as it's difficult to get the license. They should go to responsible adults that are trained and have no police record. Any gun owner should have to go through a vigorous background check, including giving the people checking access to psychiatric and medical records.

And for those of you that think gun control doesn't work just check out what happened in Australia when they finally got strict about guns.

[Bidmor]

Guns are not to blame. Drugs are not to blame. The kids' parents are not to blame. The guy who walked into a church and killed people is to blame. He's the only one to blame. Disagree with this if you want, but if one person in that church had a gun, this little asshole would be dead now and maybe some of the deceased would still be alive. When you create laws against guns, only law abiding citizens will be affected. The killers will still kill people.

That's the situation in a nutshell.

[Mcafgr]

There's been conceal to carry laws on the books for years. I've not yet heard a story where one of these "heroes" have stopped a massacre. So I'm wondering why the gun lovers continue to scream about there needing to be guns everywhere when it's not a deterrent or a solution. Obviously. I'm all for responsible gun ownership. I'm also for responsible and strict gun laws on the books and those laws being enforced. It should be difficult to get a gun. It's insane for it to be so easy to get these weapons. I'm even fine with conceal to carry to be honest. Just so long as it's difficult to get the license. They should go to responsible adults that are trained and have no police record. Any gun owner should have to go through a vigorous background check, including giving the people checking access to psychiatric and medical records.

And for those of you that think gun control doesn't work just check out what happened in Australia when they finally got strict about guns.

I doubt Australia has cities like Detroit, Jacksonville, New York, etc. Mad Max was only a movie. As for concealed weapons stopping crime, I wear shirts that purposely show my bulge.....as it were....so who knows how many crimes concealed weapons have stopped.

As for Australia....

GUN CRIME 'OUT OF CONTROL' DESPITE STRICT AUSTRALIA LAWS


http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...ut-of-control/

Feel obliged to trash the right wing website in your own "adorable Stewie" way.


Oh, as for concealed weapons stopping serious crime ....Here is eight of them for you to peruse.

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-hor...un-owners.html

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

That's the situation in a nutshell.

I disagree. All due respect. Of course the person that did the killing is responsible, but that doesn't alleviate all contributing factors.

I doubt Australia has cities like Detroit, Jacksonville, New York, etc. Mad Max was only a movie. As for concealed weapons stopping crime, I wear shirts that purposely show my bulge.....as it were....so who knows how many crimes concealed weapons have stopped.

As for Australia....

GUN CRIME 'OUT OF CONTROL' DESPITE STRICT AUSTRALIA LAWS


http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...ut-of-control/

Feel obliged to trash the right wing website in your own "adorable Stewie" way.

I won't trash it. I don't need to. It's simply untrue. Why not use a non partisan fact check site to check? Seems more fair than using a right wing blog. Like factcheck for example. I did it for ya.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun...-in-australia/

[Mcafgr]

I disagree. All due respect. Of course the person that did the killing is responsible, but that doesn't alleviate all contributing factors.



I won't trash it. I don't need to. It's simply untrue. Why not use a non partisan fact check site to check? Seems more fair than using a right wing blog. Like factcheck for example. I did it for ya.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun...-in-australia/

Atta boy.

Back on topic.

The cost of that gun, with permits is about 1200 bucks. How the hell did he get the cash for that? Cleanskull is right.

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

Atta boy.

Back on topic.

The cost of that gun, with permits is about 1200 bucks. How the hell did he get the cash for that? Cleanskull is right.

From the looks of him I'm guessing he did some time on 53rd and 3rd. Anyone that gets that reference before I explain it is officially awesome. The lyrics tell the story. I'm calling him a whore. Lyrics included

[Mcafgr]

From the looks of him I'm guessing he did some time on 53rd and 3rd. Anyone that gets that reference before I explain it is officially awesome. The lyrics tell the story. I'm calling him a whore. Lyrics included

Damn good find!

[Bidmor]

I disagree. All due respect. Of course the person that did the killing is responsible, but that doesn't alleviate all contributing factors.

Indeed, no doubt his drug abuse...one of his acquaintances described him as popping pills all the time...combined with sitting at home (unemployed) playing video games, probably violence filled killing games which are quite realistic especially if the player is zombied-out on mood/mind altering drugs, a routine which is bound to pervert reality. But ultimately the punk is to blame.

[Mcafgr]

Indeed, no doubt his drug abuse...one of his acquaintances described him as popping pills all the time...combined with sitting at home (unemployed) playing video games, probably violence filled killing games which are quite realistic especially if the player is zombied-out on mood/mind altering drugs, a routine which is bound to pervert reality. But ultimately the punk is to blame.

Bid, I take enough pain pills in a day that I sound like a maraca when I walk.....I sit at home disabled and play Doom, Assassins's Creed, Call of duty, etc...I have 6 handguns, 5 rifles, 12 shotguns, including a 10mm Colt Gold cup on my hip right now. The difference? Personal responsibility.

It's the lack of personal responsibility. Kids do not have it....and it is hard to be learned. You are correct....it is the punks fault, and he should be killed....after a jury convicts him. End of story.

[Bidmor]

Agreed, Stewie. Age brings personal life experience in the real world. Many kids don't have any personal responsibility because they have not been taught so.

[endsleigh03]

The problem is the Harris/Klebold's, the James Holmes, the Adam Lanza's and now Dylann Roof.

The whitehats with guns are NEVER there when this crap goes down. And yet, people like that can buy guns all day long, every day.

[Mcafgr]

The problem is the Harris/Klebold's, the James Holmes, the Adam Lanza's and now Dylann Roof.

The whitehats with guns are NEVER there when this crap goes down. And yet, people like that can buy guns all day long, every day.

Sometimes the media doesn't write about it......here are eight white hats.

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-hor...un-owners.html

[endsleigh03]

Sometimes the media doesn't write about it......here are eight white hats.

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/8-hor...un-owners.html

Sorry, still doesn't help. With our lax gun laws, the guns will always end up in the hands of people like the ones I listed. And people, many of them, will die fast. More of them, and much, much faster than when it's done with a knife, or some other weapon.

Oh, and something else, with each mass shooting the US becomes more numb to it. It's almost commonplace now, with the incidents happening on a regular basis.

[Mcafgr]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Drilled into me at Camp Lejeune.

[cindyt]

The reason I wear oversized loud print shirts in the summer is so no one can see what's on the back of my belt. I ignore all those signs that say you can't carry a weapon in. So do the bad guys. Banks and Churches are an exception. Oklahoma is trying to pass a law that businesses can no longer ban a licensed conceal carry patron from having their weapon with them. Plus, Holy sheep dip! How much did this punk get in cash for his birthday? That is not a cheap weapon he is holding.

Reminds me of my mama's boyfriend back in the early 80s. He lived in Dothan, Alabama, but had people living in BTown and he'd pop over and stay with us for weeks at a time. He chewed toothpicks and swallowed them and wore a black revolver on the back of his belt. He called it Sweet Thang and it went wherever he went. He was a nice sort but he would have burnt somebody's grits had they messed with him or his.

I don't support tougher gun laws because only law abiding citizens will obey them.

[Mcafgr]

that hurts the ribs if you sit down.......I use a fag bag,,,,,Fag meaning fast action bag.......kind of like the waist pouches they use to wear in the 80's. Plus it will hold 3 extra clips.

[cindyt]

[cleanskull]

stealing that pic

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

stealing that pic

Why? No one is talking about making guns illegal. Just stricter common sense laws that are enforced. That's one thing that pisses me off. It's not about making guns illegal. I don't want guns illegal. And I don't buy the BS argument that only the law abiding citizens will obey the law so we should just not have any laws. What kind of logic is that? I agree in America it will be extremely difficult to get it under control but since when did America back down from a challenge... especially one meant for the good of innocent people. If good gun control laws were put on the books and enforced it would give law enforcement the ability to confiscate and destroy the guns that the criminals have. It would take time. Years. Decades. But gun numbers would go down and the ratio of good guys with guns to bad guys with guns would bend towards the good guys side. Are kids in the ghetto gonna manufacture their own guns? No. So it's not impossible. Hard, difficult, time consuming. But not impossible.

[cindyt]

To each his or her own logic and bull shit.

[endsleigh03]

We don't KNOW how much of a dent in crimes stiffer gun laws would make. We need them.

Chest beating while holding up the second amendment as the Holy Grail of rights is helping none of us.

Maybe there would be a little less death in this country, and nobody can argue that it would not help because it hasn't been DONE.

[McCourt]

Bid, I take enough pain pills in a day that I sound like a maraca when I walk.....I sit at home disabled and play Doom, Assassins's Creed, Call of duty, etc...I have 6 handguns, 5 rifles, 12 shotguns, including a 10mm Colt Gold cup on my hip right now. The difference? Personal responsibility.

It's the lack of personal responsibility. Kids do not have it....and it is hard to be learned. You are correct....it is the punks fault, and he should be killed....after a jury convicts him. End of story.

Absolutely! I unfortunately have to take pain meds. Even if the drugs this knucklehead was taking were prescribed, he most likely abused them.

[McCourt]

We don't KNOW how much of a dent in crimes stiffer gun laws would make. We need them.

Chest beating while holding up the second amendment as the Holy Grail of rights is helping none of us.

Maybe there would be a little less death in this country, and nobody can argue that it would not help because it hasn't been DONE.

How about they just start enforcing the ones we already have and stop letting these fuckers out of prison after serving 1/3 of their time?

[cindyt]

Absolutely! I unfortunately have to take pain meds. Even if the drugs this knucklehead was taking were prescribed, he most likely abused them.

Apparently he did abuse them because he was last arrested for drugs. Most of the crimes in the United States are drug related, so they need to quit joking around with the drug war and buckle down on abusers ala life in prison with no possibility of parole.

How about they just start enforcing the ones we already have and stop letting these fuckers out of prison after serving 1/3 of their time?

This, and not only not let them out but put them down like the mad dogs they are. There ain't no parole from hell.

[cleanskull]

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/faith...096056671.html

It looks like they had a very moving service this morning.

[shipmatekate]

Then you clearly did not understand my post. If someone approaches you with a gun and wants to shoot you, the last thing they expect is that you're not going to be able to produce a weapon and PROTECT YOURSELF. They expect you to be a sheep and just allow them to kill you. What's wrong with self defense? Isn't it already painfully obvious that no matter what the law is, the bad guys will do whatever the fuck they want? They don't abide by the law. I think I should be allowed to protect myself but I'll do so within the guidelines of the law, which is guy I'm glad there are concealed handgun laws that allow me to do that.

I f I wanted to live in fear and ignorance and carry a gun tochurch I woulds be in the mid - east

[shipmatekate]

To each his or her own logic and bull shit.

Especially the bullshit

thigh deep with gun frreaks

[Maxster]

And for those of you that think gun control doesn't work just check out what happened in Australia when they finally got strict about guns.

Among other things, it turned many otherwise law-abiding people into criminals, and brought into being a new cottage industry in illegally manufacturing firearms.

Meanwhile, look at the U.K., where firearms laws are much tougher than in Australia. There are millions of illegal firearms circulating, including fully-automatic weapons. It helps in Australia not only that the country has no constitutional rights, but is also geographically isolated and easy to police.

Why? No one is talking about making guns illegal.

They certainly are!

Just stricter common sense laws that are enforced.

That's what they said in Australia and England, once upon a time. Meanwhile, the Charleston shooter, a convicted felon, passed a background check and was able to acquire his weapon without any kind of evasive technique (like buying from a private or strawman seller).

That's one thing that pisses me off. It's not about making guns illegal.

It is about making guns illegal. Everywhere there are legal guns, there are mass shootings. Whether it's in England or Holland or Canada or Germany or Switzerland, occasionally the checks fail. Mere lack of a criminal or psychiatric record doesn't preclude one from mass murder.

And I don't buy the BS argument that only the law abiding citizens will obey the law so we should just not have any laws. What kind of logic is that?

And whose logic is that? Who is clamoring for an end to gun control of any kind, apart from a few fanatics?

Are kids in the ghetto gonna manufacture their own guns? No.

What makes you think they don't? Meanwhile, illegal firearms manufacturing is flourishing in Australia and China, so what's to stop the same from happening in the U.S. come a ban?

Edit:

The reason I blame the parents is because they gave him the high powered firearm that he used to commit murder.

That's the interesting part: they didn't. He bought the weapon in a shop, which meant he passed a background check which he should have failed. This smacks of incompetence on a par with that of the INS inspector who approved Mohammed Atta's posthumous student visa.

[Mcafgr]

If I ever don't have the strength to beat out a response to some posts, thank the good lord we have Maxster.

As for availability of guns?.....Right now, this minute, I can make a phone call and have a 9mm at my door in about 2 hours. Legal no...Illegal...hell yes. But I practice PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Something lost on the millennials.

[Bidmor]

Maxster: well stated, concise, and accurate summary points as usual. Kudos.

[cleanskull]

The more info that comes out the more convoluted the story becomes. Old posts are based on old info. Never had that kind of money at that age as Uncle Sugar didn't pay all that much back then.

[cindyt]

Well said Maxter.

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

God. It's amazing. Maxster didn't post one unpartisan or even partisan proof of his wrong and unfounded opinions and you people eat it up. This is FAUX News in a nutshell. It doesn't matter what facts or truth is. Just preach nonsense with nothing supporting your wrong view and the people that want to believe it will eat it up with a spoon.

I can blast his entire Aussie and England with one solid 100% true fact. Dig it. Homicides By Firearm Per 1 million People:



Who is talking about making guns illegal Maxster? I know most here buy your very strong "Yes they are" supported by so many "facts". Other than maybe ultra left wing radicals who in the policy making position are for making all guns illegal, full stop?

No shit common sense laws and checks doesn't preclude one from mass murder. But it does make it more difficult. Even after all laws and checks people will slip through the cracks. But at least an occasional leak of a nut would beat the FUCK out of the gaping wide open space that is now available.

Who is clamoring for the end of all gun control? Shall I compile a list? You say a few fanatics? Are you fucking serious? Ever heard of a little group called the NRA? So you say an entire side of government wants to make all guns illegal but only a few fanatical freaks want no gun control? You're out of your fucking mind.

So you're seriously asking me why I don't think kids in the ghetto are manufacturing firearms? Can you prove that kids in the ghettos are making their own firearms? Not zip guns. They've been making those since the turn of the century. Better chance of beating someone to death than to hit a target with one of those.

Everything is illegal and flourishing in China. Plus you can't get decent real statistics on that... even if you wanted to. As to Australia... FACT remains they have fewer gun related deaths there since the new laws. Full stop. PERIOD.

I won't expect any cheerleading from the gallery as Maxster receives. As my facts supported by data have no use in this debate that people have already made up their mind on regardless how thoroughly you show them they are wrong.

[cindyt]

No one has to prove anything right or wrong here, Stewart. You're beginning to sound like someone on JFK.

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

No one has to prove anything right or wrong here, Stewart. You're beginning to sound like someone on JFK.

Unfortunately the same can be said for the entire conservative population.

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

It's been awhile since my last post... but speaking of Conservatives and this story here's something interesting...

"The head of a white supremacist group, cited by the suspected gunman who killed nine people at a black South Carolina church last week, has given thousands of dollars to several 2016 Republican presidential candidates. According to the Guardian, Earl Holt III of Texas, leader of the Council of Conservative Citizens, has donated a total of $65,000 to Texas Senator Ted Cruz, former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum and Kentucky Senator Rand Paul."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/...ans/vi-AAbWyPN

[shipmatekate]

It's been awhile since my last post... but speaking of Conservatives and this story here's something interesting...

"The head of a white supremacist group, cited by the suspected gunman who killed nine people at a black South Carolina church last week, has given thousands of dollars to several 2016 Republican presidential candidates. According to the Guardian, Earl Holt III of Texas, leader of the Council of Conservative Citizens, has donated a total of $65,000 to Texas Senator Ted Cruz, former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum and Kentucky Senator Rand Paul."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/...ans/vi-AAbWyPN

No surprise there, he right backs these assholes all the way

[shipmatekate]

God. It's amazing. Maxster didn't post one unpartisan or even partisan proof of his wrong and unfounded opinions and you people eat it up. This is FAUX News in a nutshell. It doesn't matter what facts or truth is. Just preach nonsense with nothing supporting your wrong view and the people that want to believe it will eat it up with a spoon.

I can blast his entire Aussie and England with one solid 100% true fact. Dig it. Homicides By Firearm Per 1 million People:



Who is talking about making guns illegal Maxster? I know most here buy your very strong "Yes they are" supported by so many "facts". Other than maybe ultra left wing radicals who in the policy making position are for making all guns illegal, full stop?

No shit common sense laws and checks doesn't preclude one from mass murder. But it does make it more difficult. Even after all laws and checks people will slip through the cracks. But at least an occasional leak of a nut would beat the FUCK out of the gaping wide open space that is now available.

Who is clamoring for the end of all gun control? Shall I compile a list? You say a few fanatics? Are you fucking serious? Ever heard of a little group called the NRA? So you say an entire side of government wants to make all guns illegal but only a few fanatical freaks want no gun control? You're out of your fucking mind.

So you're seriously asking me why I don't think kids in the ghetto are manufacturing firearms? Can you prove that kids in the ghettos are making their own firearms? Not zip guns. They've been making those since the turn of the century. Better chance of beating someone to death than to hit a target with one of those.

Everything is illegal and flourishing in China. Plus you can't get decent real statistics on that... even if you wanted to. As to Australia... FACT remains they have fewer gun related deaths there since the new laws. Full stop. PERIOD.

I won't expect any cheerleading from the gallery as Maxster receives. As my facts supported by data have no use in this debate that people have already made up their mind on regardless how thoroughly you show them they are wrong.

Facts and truth have historically been ignored by the right, aint gonna change

[atomicbettie]

I don't think his father gave him the gun. From what I've read he received money for his birthday and bought the gun himself. But who knows.

This is what I have read also.

The most abused drugs are now prescription drugs, which they have really buckled down and put controls on, and it's still a bigger problem than ever. People still get them, and the unfortunate thing is that people who really need them have a hard time getting them. My brother needed a root canal and they told him to take Tylenol, would not give him anything stronger, even though he had a verifiable problem and has not been prescribed any controlled meds in the last year, which they can look up. My best friend was in a car accident where she was T-boned, then hit head on by another car. The doctor the ER sent her to gave her 10 Vicodin and told her that was it. She can barely move. Even with regulations people either ignore them or take them to the complete other extreme. So I can only imagine how that will go with gun control regulations. Kids like this are going to just find another way to get a gun. Obviously someone planning a massacre doesn't care about breaking the law.

[McCourt]

I f I wanted to live in fear and ignorance and carry a gun tochurch I woulds be in the mid - east

Well living in denial won't help.

[cindyt]

This is what I have read also.

The most abused drugs are now prescription drugs, which they have really buckled down and put controls on, and it's still a bigger problem than ever. People still get them, and the unfortunate thing is that people who really need them have a hard time getting them. My brother needed a root canal and they told him to take Tylenol, would not give him anything stronger, even though he had a verifiable problem and has not been prescribed any controlled meds in the last year, which they can look up. My best friend was in a car accident where she was T-boned, then hit head on by another car. The doctor the ER sent her to gave her 10 Vicodin and told her that was it. She can barely move. Even with regulations people either ignore them or take them to the complete other extreme. So I can only imagine how that will go with gun control regulations. Kids like this are going to just find another way to get a gun. Obviously someone planning a massacre doesn't care about breaking the law.

They harvested veins out of my right leg to use for the bypass. I had a wound in the side bend of my knee and another one on the side of my heel. And I had more and longer problems with that leg than with the operation. Not pain wise, of course, but it felt like a peg leg, and just touching it made me cry out in pain. And the nerves in my foot were damaged, and it would spasm and twitch toward the left foot at night. The pain meds killed it for the three months they allowed a prescription (for sternum pain) and then that was it. My heart doctor refused to give me anything because "they're habit forming." I guess it was okay for me to be in agony. I did go into the hospital twice and they gave me loratabs and sent me home with a script for a few each time. After about ten months my pain stopped. But I know there are people who are in constant pain all the time and have been for years and their doctors will not give them enough to make them comfortable.

[Upset]

An Australian perspective on guns in the US:

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

Padlock Monthly lmao Love Jim Jeffries.

Maxster should really watch the bit towards the end about the black market... no way he makes it that far lol

[Mcafgr]

His musket joke is priceless. LMAO.

[findadeathaddict]

Loved it thanks for sharing!! Loved his immigrant comment too.

[Bidmor]

This Jefferies guy is new to me. Funny, especially his joke about homicides in his country really didn't change much after the massacre. Oh wait, he didn't have a line about that. Well anyway.

But his joke about robberies, that was good. What? Robberies in Oz increased after the massacre law? Really? Huh. Jefferies must have been high during that one. Oh well.

Well at least the suicide joke was spot on. Hmmm? Suicides have been on the decrease in the US? Since when? 1986?! Well I guess you can't win them all.

Here's a little paper I was going to discuss but got to laughing so hard at Jeffreries...put out by The Fraser Institute in Vancouver. More comedy in it..a pdf BTW.
http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/fai...erimentRev.pdf

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

Off the subject but this is my favorite Jim Jeffries joke. Well this one and the one about taking his dad to the world cup. I'll post both. They're short :P



They didn't have the full World Cup joke on youtube but here's a link to it. Funny shit

http://www.videobash.com/video_show/...rld-cup-261217

[findadeathaddict]

Too funny Stewie!

Back on topic: What do you all think about the Confederate flag still flying over the SC state capitol?

[StewartGilliganGriffin]

Too funny Stewie!

Back on topic: What do you all think about the Confederate flag still flying over the SC state capitol?

Funny shit right!!!? .... "sniff.... 'I only want coke'.... wipe tears from eyes". I think there is no reason for any Confederate flag to be flown... especially at State Capitals and the like. The Confederacy lost. They were traitors to the United States of America. The Confederacy stood for slavery. People can try to sugar coat it that it was about states rights... blah blah blah. Yeah. A states right to own fucking slaves!!!! It's a symbol that people should be ashamed of. It represents an unwashable stain on this country. Much like Naziism stains Germany. You don't see fucking swastikas flying at German capital buildings. People try to make this a left or right issue. For me it's a very simple right or wrong issue. If a person is fighting for the confederate flag they should be stripped of their American citizenship and deported to whatever country they want to go to that will have them.

[Dulcinea]

Too funny Stewie!

Back on topic: What do you all think about the Confederate flag still flying over the SC state capitol?

I'm a genteel Southern Belle (from Virginia) and love VA and my/our history from the roots of my hair to the tips of my (pink) toes. I volunteer at a Confederate Cemetery and live about 20 miles from Appomattox. I was raised steeped in history (not just of the Confederate kind, either). That being said, I do not think the Battle Flag of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia (what we generally consider as the 'stars and bars' is NOT the Confederate Flag) should be flown, and certainly not on the grounds of the state capitol. (If VA isn't flying it, why is SC?).

Today, our governor (Terry McAuliffe) said he was committed to also removing the flag from VA license plates. You can get a specialty plate for the "Sons of Confederate Veterans" that feature the flag. I'm sort of torn on this, however. Since anyone can purchase the plate, I think it needs to go, though I don't see a problem with someone who is an actual ancestor of a Confederate Veteran and who is interested in the ACTUAL heritage and history of their family using it. The problem is people who are ignorant who have NO idea if they had a Confederate ancestor or not and could care less about the history of their area and family during the Civil War. For that reason I think it needs to be separated from all State and City governments.

Wal-mart has also said they will stop selling merchandise with the flag on it. That is fine with me, too. Anyone who is actually flying it or using it as a symbol of their family or Civil War history is going to do so tastefully and not run around with a camo confederate flag tee shirt and matching hat...