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Thread: Thelma Todd

  1. #101
    I Have to also agree, the mob could have used numerous Gambling establishments, what was so special about Thelma's?

    They must have had many many fingers in the pies of the rich and famous from that era,( certainly stars that owned restaurants and the like ) granted many may have been willing or simply tried to turn a blind eye, but i am pretty sure thier must have been many that would not even entertain such shady going on's, i am assuming these people were never murdered or we would be writing about them on this forum

  2. #102
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    I think it was the mob too. Regarding why they felt like they had to have that place at the cafe, there have been many instances where businesses (legal and other) have been pointed to different and better locations, and some pig head said they needed it at THIS location, no matter what.

    What actual date was determined as the death date? I know she was found on the morning of December 16, 1935, did they determine the day before, or early morning hours of the 16? I was born on December 16, 1953.

  3. #103
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    Here's something interesting. I'm re-read Lucky Luciano's semi-autobiography. He told most of his life's story to an author, shortly before he died. There is absolutely no mention, I mean nothing at all, about Thelma Todd. He doesn't even talk about being in California around that time. He certainly doesn't talk about Thelma Todd being his girlfriend. So, it's got me thinking either he never was involved with Thelma Todd, or he conveniently chose not to mention her, because of the implications involved. Which is possible. Luciano swears up and down in this book, that after he was arrested for selling drugs as a teenager, he never sold them again. So, there could be some omissions in his life's story, he chose to leave out.
    I still don't believe Thelma Todd's death was a mob hit. Not their style. If they whacked her, they would've made sure to hide the body. Plus, I'm still convinced that mob men just didn't kill females back then. They may have done some evil things, but they did have a certain "code" to follow, back then.

    "So many faces in and out of my life. Some will last, some will just be now and then. Life is a series of Hellos and Goodbyes, I'm afraid it's time for Goodbye again. "

  4. #104
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    I believe Roland West accidentally killed her. He had an argument with her and hit her then in a fit of rage locked her in the garage. She fell asleep at the wheel and died of carbon monoxide poisoning. West was probably drunk and went upstairs and fell asleep. The next day after he woke up and realized what he had done it was too late. He got away with it but hollywood turned his back on him and he was never the same. I doubt the mob would have bothered.

  5. #105
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    Yesterday, I read in a book the mystery about the death of Thelma. The book describes the story with Lucky Luciano, and the hypothesis of West.
    When God goes to bed every night, he prays to CM Punk.

  6. #106
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    I'm in the middle of reading a Thelma Todd profile on Haunted Hollywood. I believe she was murdered.

  7. #107
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    I agree. I think she was murdered. Seems back in the day was easy to make murders look like accidents.

  8. #108
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    I just read a short history of LA and wowzer LE was corrupt! Can you say bribes?

  9. #109
    The big question I have after seeing the post-mortem photo of Thelma Todd is: Did she fall over when the police opened her car door? If not, the positioning of her body looks strange. If you're committing suicide via closed garage and fumes, you don't die immediately. You become drowsy and then merely go into a deep sleep before dying. Usually you'll instictively move your body to where the most room is, i.e.: the passenger seat. But Todd appears to have fallen over into a much stranger driver-side. But if she was PLACED there, the placement of the body makes sense.

  10. #110
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    My problem with a mob hit was in those days they were still reluctant to kill women nor did they have much need for covering up their hits with little fear of prosecution.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarsier View Post
    My problem with a mob hit was in those days they were still reluctant to kill women nor did they have much need for covering up their hits with little fear of prosecution.

    I think she was murdered by Roland West, in fact I believe he confessed to it on his deathbed

  12. #112
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    hmm... this case fascinates me as well. My instincts go with the Roland West killing her accidentally idea. Frustrating that we'll never know the real cause and tragic that such a talented actress was taken from the world while so young.

    RIP Thelma

  13. #113
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    Uh Huh on Mr.West.RIP "HT". :/

  14. #114
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    Found a couple interesting blogs, this one shows a picture of her shoes, which were scuffed rather than pristine.

    http://thesilentmovieblog.wordpress....f-thelma-todd/

    In this one, this author determined Thelma's funeral service was at Pierce Brother's mortuary, which is now a Korean Church, and decided to take a stroll in try and find the viewing room.

    http://losangelescoldcasecrimes.blog...s-blog_27.html

    It does pose the question if she was really in the car from early Sunday AM until being found Monday AM why was she not in rigor mortis?
    Morgan

  15. #115
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    A clearer picture of her in the morgue..

    http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNj...U8ffC/$_57.JPG
    Last edited by cindyt; 08-29-2015 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Fixed link

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by shipmatekate View Post
    I think she was murdered by Roland West, in fact I believe he confessed to it on his deathbed
    Yes, I know that is true.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  17. #117
    If you follow Thelma in "Horsefeathers", with the Marx Brothers, she was really a vivacious and beautiful woman, with a sexy smile and laugh. This was real loss, and certainly not an accident.

  18. #118
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    I also think she was murdered. too bad back in that day, i bet alot of money changed hands or friend of a friend helped that asshole out.

  19. #119
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    ............................

  20. #120
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    This is a new one: Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy,
    may of killed Thelma Todd.(crazy but true)
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by theotherlondon View Post
    This is a new one: Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy,
    may of killed Thelma Todd.(crazy but true)
    Stan Laurel ! Then I found this, crazy but true is right ! http://www.foxella.com/everyone-susp...c-that-did-it/
    To really know people is to be able to read between the lines on their faces.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mansfield67 View Post
    Stan Laurel ! Then I found this, crazy but true is right ! http://www.foxella.com/everyone-susp...c-that-did-it/
    Take that with a huge grain of salt. It originally came from Crazy Days and Nights, and their blind items have been a little, may we say, erratic, the last few months.

    They also insist James Dean faked his death lived in obscurity in Canada until dying in a car crash late last year.
    Morgan

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mansfield67 View Post
    Stan Laurel ! Then I found this, crazy but true is right ! http://www.foxella.com/everyone-susp...c-that-did-it/
    Good find.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by theotherlondon View Post
    This is a new one: Stan Laurel of Laurel and Hardy,
    may of killed Thelma Todd.(crazy but true)
    I've always figured it was him - been saying it for years right here on this board.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheWrath of MadelineKahn View Post
    T
    They also insist James Dean faked his death lived in obscurity in Canada until dying in a car crash late last year.
    Sounds reasonable, although I've always heard it was Greenland.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiggyTx View Post
    I also think she was murdered. too bad back in that day, i bet alot of money changed hands or friend of a friend helped that asshole out.
    So true, as many people have already figured out
    that asshole who murdered her was Stan Laurel.
    (Sad but it is the truth)
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  26. #126
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    Typical of Hollywood, it's better to hide the truth than solve a crime. So many deaths surrounded in mystery to save careers and keep the money flowing. The best about Thelma that we know was her ex was the reason for her death. Whether accidental or not, it seems he locked her in the garage to "teach her a lesson". Thelma was drinking but was also bruised and beaten. The running car was her doom. Whatever the truth, Hollywood feels profits are more important.

  27. #127
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    Mob Hit, Not Stan.
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

  28. #128
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    Wow - now it's all starting to make sense.

    I'd heard that Stan had a gambling problem.
    And that at various times he had gotten in pretty deep with some bookies and mobsters.

    Now, putting 2 & 2 together:
    Knowing that Stan had gambling debts with the mob, and he had personal access to Thelma, and the mob wanted Thelma's place as a front for illegal gambling; it's pretty obvious that he might easily have been pressured to try to "reason" with her.

    I'm guessing that things just went badly and Thelma wound up dead.

    Wow, I just never made that connection before now; and it's just so obvious.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  29. #129
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    Jim where are you getting these "facts" I am sorry but I dont buy it.
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    Jim where are you getting these "facts" I am sorry but I dont buy it.
    Bob's Big Book O' Facts.
    It's the "All True For 2019 (At Time Of Publication)" edition.

    Book.jpg
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  31. #131
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    bwwwaaahhhh that would be like me throwing out I got my facts from Hollywood Babylon
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    bwwwaaahhhh that would be like me throwing out I got my facts from Hollywood Babylon
    Is that Hollywood Babylon source of yours recently updated?

    Bob's Big Book O' Facts is regularly updated with fresh facts as they become true. The older, no longer true stuff is removed and replaced with a citation.
    She publishes a book of former facts but I don't have that. I figure what's the point in reading stuff that's not true anymore, unless maybe you're interested in rumor-mongering or making stuff up and being able to cite a source for it. I don't know how she keeps up with all of it, but she somehow does. Her bio says that she pretty much never goes anywhere anymore; she's just constantly updating and getting new copies printed; and ordering take out.

    "Hollywood Babylon" doesn't even have the word "facts" in the title; I'm not so sure I'd trust it as being factual, not 100% anyway.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  33. #133
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    I've been thinking about this.

    Rereading some of the posts concerning the various ideas about Thelma's death - and Stan's involvement - led me to revisit some of the published stuff about it.
    Even though I was initially a bit dismissive of PK's "Hollywood Babylon" reference work, I find that it does have some interesting information, so I see now why she cites it as an authoritative source; even though I suspect it's a little inaccurate concerning Thelma and Stan.

    But what it all boils down to is this:

    I no longer believe that Stan killed Thelma.

    In fact, I no longer believe that anyone killed Thelma.

    Further research leaves me inclined to think that what happened is probably one of two scenarios, with the second being the most probable.

    1. She faked her own death.
    Obviously, a lot of people think that she faked her own death and "disappeared" to escape the craziness of Hollywood and to get away from all of the unsavory characters that were dogging her for a lot of different reasons, some with bad intentions. It's commonly said that she accomplished this considerable, complex feat with the help of none other than Fred Noonan; who although not recognized at that time as the "go-to" guy for such endeavors, certainly became so shortly after the whole Thelma situation.

    I discount this idea mainly because I believe that at the time, Fred would have been far too occupied with the planning and preparations necessary for his much more complex and highly scrutinized hallmark event that took place barely a year and a half later.

    I think he just didn't have the time to help her like that even though the idea is otherwise plausible.

    That brings us to the more likely scenario:

    2. Suicide or accidental death.
    Suicide is naturally a real possibility, Hollywood types do it all the time. But when you consider the fact that she left no note, wasn't known to be depressed, not in financial trouble, etc.; then I'd have to think it improbable.

    Consequently, I now believe that she was locked out of the house, probably because she was being really bitchy or whiny or needy or something like that. She was maybe a bit tipsy and decided to just sleep it off in the car for a couple of hours. She started the engine - maybe to run the heater, maybe to listen to Dick Clark on the radio; and with the garage closed up tight, the predictable happened.

    She dozed off and never awakened again.

    So it wasn't Stan Laurel after all in spite of the damning evidence, and it wasn't any of those other guys who have been considered possible agents of her demise over all these years - it was Thelma herself; either by accident or intent.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  34. #134
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    I didnt use Hollywood Babylon I said your book is like hollywood babylon , good that you are off the Stan idea so she beat herself up?
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    I didnt use Hollywood Babylon I said your book is like hollywood babylon , good that you are off the Stan idea so she beat herself up?
    No, of course she didn't.
    You really think that?

    Stan beat her up, but he didn't kill her.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  36. #136
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    He wasn't even with her that night, no Jim I was being sarcastic however it would seem you would say she did.
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    He wasn't even with her that night, no Jim I was being sarcastic however it would seem you would say she did.
    No, that would be kind of crazy.
    That's not the sort of thing that I would ever say on a weekday.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  38. #138
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    Still no evidence concerning Stan Laurel killing Thelma Todd. Just saying so in a book doesn't mean it's fact. Evidence is needed. Using that crazy logic Joseph Stalin or Adolf Hitler could have done it.

  39. #139
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    Thank you bullet ,I have done extensive research even had a friend go through old police files in the archives and no where does it say Stan was even a suspect I wish i could get copies and show them but she wasntallowed to copy anything
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletnose View Post
    Still no evidence concerning Stan Laurel killing Thelma Todd. Just saying so in a book doesn't mean it's fact. Evidence is needed. Using that crazy logic Joseph Stalin or Adolf Hitler could have done it.
    Not really.
    Stalin and Hitler both would have faced significant logistical issues getting to her.
    Double the issues if they had traveled separately.
    Unlike someone like, say... Stan Laurel.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  41. #141
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    Crazy Days and Nights aka Cdan, the original source of the Stan Laurel killed Thelma theory, posted a blind item today saying that Thelma's ex-husband killed her.

    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2...od-harvey.html

    Contradictory, you bet.
    Morgan

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWrath of MadelineKahn View Post
    Crazy Days and Nights aka Cdan, the original source of the Stan Laurel killed Thelma theory, posted a blind item today saying that Thelma's ex-husband killed her.

    https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2...od-harvey.html

    Contradictory, you bet.
    So there were two killers?
    Suddenly, that assertion by Bulletnose that Hitler and Stalin did it doesn't seem quite so far fetched.

    This is starting to look like a full-blown conspiracy.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  43. #143
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    Just rolls my eyes
    "My Darling Girl ,when are you going to realize that being normal is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage." ~Aunt Frances~ #METOO grandpa Jan 8,1927-March 9, 2006 Grandma Nov 6, 1926-June 28, 2018. Forever loved and missed always in my heart.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    So there were two killers?
    Suddenly, that assertion by Bulletnose that Hitler and Stalin did it doesn't seem quite so far fetched.

    This is starting to look like a full-blown conspiracy.
    Good point, maybe is true.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by theotherlondon View Post
    Good point, maybe is true.
    It's possible but I'm just a little skeptical.
    With all due respect to our friend Bulletnose and that Hitler-Stalin-Todd conspiracy theory, I just don't see anything credible to support it.
    I'd even say that most conspiracy theories not related to JFK, 9/11, moon landing hoaxes, UFO\Alien contact cover-ups by governments world wide, chemtrails, black helicopters and FEMA death camps; are somewhat lacking in credibility; and that's enough to make you question whether or not they might be partially false.

    The more I think about it, I really don't think that there were two murderers.
    Even if there were, I doubt it was Hitler and Stalin.

    I'll bet you this though - if she was in fact murdered; someone was very likely responsible.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  46. #146
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    [QUOTE=JimC;1551803]It's possible but I'm just a little skeptical.
    With all due respect to our friend Bulletnose and that Hitler-Stalin-Todd conspiracy theory, I just don't see anything credible to support it.
    I'd even say that most conspiracy theories not related to JFK, 9/11, moon landing hoaxes, UFO\Alien contact cover-ups by governments world wide, chemtrails, black helicopters and FEMA death camps; are somewhat lacking in credibility; and that's enough to make you question whether or not they might be partially false.

    The more I think about it, I really don't think that there were two murderers.
    Even if there were, I doubt it was Hitler and Stalin.

    I'll bet you this though - if she was in fact murdered; someone was very likely responsible.[/QUOTE
    One thing I agree with you about conspiracy theories is about 9/11
    was all down to Vice President Dick Cheney(to blame people in the middle east and start a war)
    Because as we all know George W Bush was/is a moron.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    I didnt use Hollywood Babylon I said your book is like hollywood babylon , good that you are off the Stan idea so she beat herself up?
    I so enjoyed the Hollywood Babylon books.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

  48. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by theotherlondon View Post
    I so enjoyed the Hollywood Babylon books.
    There is a blind on the Crazy Day and Nights site. Inferring she had an affair with Roland West and hooking up with Stan Laurel. According to what I read: Thelma
    drove to the home of Roland West. She tried to enter to no avail. An hour later Stan Laurel showed up snuck in through a side door of the garage strangled her to death with a pair of nylons, turned the engine on, walked out.

    https://www.crazydaysanights.net/sea...&max-results=8
    Last edited by chrisdr; 12-26-2018 at 10:22 AM. Reason: with

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdr View Post
    There is a blind on the Crazy Day and Nights site. Inferring she had an affair with Roland West and hooking up with Stan Laurel. According to what I read: Thelma
    drove to the home of Roland West. She tried to enter to no avail. An hour later Stan Laurel showed up snuck in through a side door of the garage strangled her to death with a pair of nylons, turned the engine on, walked out.

    https://www.crazydaysanights.net/sea...&max-results=8
    Yeah.
    There's been some discussion of that here and in the Stan Laurel thread too.
    The case for Stan being the killer is pretty strong, but I've come to doubt it for one simple reason:
    What the hell would Stan have been doing walking around with a pair of nylons, especially considering that actual nylon stockings didn't debut until 1939?

    I have little doubt that he snuck into the garage, or that he slapped her around a bit, but he didn't kill her.
    Not with nylons anyway.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Yeah.
    There's been some discussion of that here and in the Stan Laurel thread too.
    The case for Stan being the killer is pretty strong, but I've come to doubt it for one simple reason:
    What the hell would Stan have been doing walking around with a pair of nylons, especially considering that actual nylon stockings didn't debut until 1939?

    I have little doubt that he snuck into the garage, or that he slapped her around a bit, but he didn't kill her.
    Not with nylons anyway.

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