A 13-year-old student dressed as the Batman villain Two-Face shot himself dead with a hand gun today at an Oklahoma junior high school, just minutes before classes were due to start.
Administrator
A 13-year-old student dressed as the Batman villain Two-Face shot himself dead with a hand gun today at an Oklahoma junior high school, just minutes before classes were due to start.
Renowned Death Hag
I hate to say this, but kids need to toughen up. Life is hard and people are mean. Without coping skills they simply won't make it. No one comes to your rescue when you have a mean boss.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Renowned Death Hag
Miho, under the circumstances it seems a little harsh but I agree. Natural selection works in many ways. I remember being young and not understanding the "big picture" but I made it. Well I did do some fuckin up along the way. I feel for this kid and all the others but people should teach kids to kick some bully ass not run for help. Help is never there unless you make it work. Its a sad situation but its also natural.
I am the king of all things stupid!
Renowned Death Hag
Wow - this is just freakin sad. When my oldest daughter was in 8th Grade, one of her classmates hung/hanged herself. It was terrible - no one "really" knows why - and she did not leave a note or anything. To this day I feel so bad for her Mama, she has a FB page and she is still clueless and battling with "why"...
The school was scared about "copy cat" deaths for a while afterwards...
My Posse's On Broadway
Renowned Death Hag
I had four friends commit suicide in their teens. Two of them were very close friends and it still bothers me to this day. Its always sad when we loose someone but it seems more tragic when its a kid. I'm confident that three of the above friends would have done fine in life had they just been able to hold out a couple years. The other one was crippled and killed himself to escape severe physical pain. I try to always explain to youths that it gets better but I'm not sure it does any good. Its like saying dont smoke or drive drunk. Nobody listens until its too late. A young boy up the road from my house committed suicide last week. I'm not sure why he did it but I wish he would have given it some time. I guess the pain must be too much.
I am the king of all things stupid!
Of course bullying is nothing new, but this suicide is another indication of today's parental child rearing in addition to upside down objectives of schools. The kid is not to blame...it's the culture possibly at home, definitely at school and the world.
One issue that comes to mind are these violent video games which glorify death, on top of movies and tv shows...come to think of it, the pop culture of death.
Last edited by Bidmor; 09-27-2012 at 01:26 PM.
Death Hag
My son was bullied from 1st grade to 4th. I fought and fought with the school about how we could work together to change the way the school dealt with bullies. Finally, realizing the school would do nothing to help my child, I took the initiative. I enrolled him in karate, moved him to another school in the district and made it my mission to change the way the district dealt with bullying. I warned them that if they didn't do something to change the way they handled the many situations of bullying that were being brought to their attention, something terrible would happen. About six months later a 9 yr old boy hung himself in the bathroom of the nurses office at school. It was determined from other students and the parents that bullying was involved and that neither the school or the district had done anything to stop this childs daily torment.
My point is that it really comes down to us as parents. We have to do whatever we can to protect our kids, including giving them the necessary coping skills to deal with people who might bully them. Now my son is almost 14. He is involved in sports, has plenty of friends and comes home from school with a smile every day. Sure, there is still the occasional kid who tries to pick on him, be he lets it roll off his back. He's learned how to deal with that and knows to come straight to me if something ever gets out of hand. The district has implemented new policies to deal with bullying, and I still email them once a month to remind them that it is still a problem for many students. I feel so sorry for these parents.
Renowned Death Hag
I agree. Bullying sucks, but lets be honest. We have ALL been bullied and we have ALL bullied someone at one point in our lives. I hate the young man took his life, but we need to start teaching out kids that life sucks. It's not fair. Not everyone is a winner. We all have battles and we all have our own demons to face, but we can all survive.Originally Posted by Miho
I agree. I've done things I'm not proud of either, but it's best to just tough it out and rise above it. Easier said than done during one's adolescence, but life is what one makes it. I got teased for having good grades and being shy, but I eventually made it. Unfortunately, bullying is reaching an all-time high, but suicide is NOT the answer.
Funny you say we have to rise above, I went to te Rise Above Fest on labor day which was a fundraising concert for the New Hampshire Mental Health Organization. The lead singer of Seether's little brother committed suicide. A lot of the people featured in the video that was played were between 15 and 22 and many of them talked of bullying and survival tactics. Johnny (the lead singer of Seetehr) said he was going to tackle bullying next.
Renowned Death Hag
We now live in a society where we don't keep score at Little League Games because we may hurt someone's feelings. Everyone gets a trophy. Well you know what? Not everyone is always a winner and just because you exist doesn't make you super special or great. When we raise our kids to think the world revolves around them we are doing them a disjustice.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Administrator
Okay my mom is saying this not me, I was bullied in school. I am going to be forty it was so bad that I thought of killing myself. I went to the principal, to whomever I could go to for help, they suspended the kids for two days and when they came back I was bullied more for being a snitch. I didn't tell myparents about the bullying as I was too embarrassed and ashamed, I did go for help I did try to fight back, but when you have a lot of them gang up on you it makes it bad. I still remember all the things I had to endure, from those bullies, I had to go to therapy because of them, sometimes the feelings come back of how I felt when they were bullying me. This needs to stop, Kids today have no guidance , they have no discipline, everything is handed to them and when mom and dad don't want to deal with them , they buy them the newest video game or electronic to babysit them. When I was growing up when I went out, I was asked, Where are you going? With Whom are you going? Will there be parents there? What is the phone number of the place you are going? I need to call and talk to their parents first? I want you home at this time, if I wasn't home at said time I was grounded, My parents were calling there after ten mins of me arriving to find out if I made it there or not. It may piss your children off, but please, always ask, what, where, how, when, why, who. get numbers and talk to your kids about bullying. My best friend did take his life after kids bullied him this was in the 80s-90s, I still miss him. Please talk to your kids about bullying this needs to stop . Sorry for the long rant
Thanks
Pks mom
Last edited by pkstracy; 09-27-2012 at 01:08 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
^^^ Like
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Renowned Death Hag
I agree 100%. I see it in my job every day.
I don't believe it is the bullies or video games or comics or movies or heavy metal music that are to blame. It is the inability of parents who refuse to take responsibility and a society that does not take mental health care seriously that are at the root of the problem. Like Miho said, parents and teachers just don't want to have "unhappy" kids so everyone is a winner. BS.
There are always going to be ugly people and situations in this world and the most we can do is learn how deal with them. We cannot control others but we can learn to control how we deal with them and how to deal with our own frailties in a constructive manner.
It is a very sad case and it may seem like there are more teen suicides than ever but I don't think there are. I just think every story gets sensationalized and for the wrong reason. Money.
Renowned Death Hag
Cue the older generation to start saying kids are coddled too much and a bunch of wimps.
I wonder how I'll insult the generation that comes after mine.... It's something we all do I guess.
"Death has come to your little town, Sheriff." -Dr. Loomis
Then there's the now almost universal way of handling rambunctious kids...put them on Ritalin...drug 'em.
Senior Death Hag
Everyone above me has pretty much stated my exact feelings on this subject. And I totally agree with just about everything that's been posted (my only disagreement is with regards to video games and movies being the problem). I've posted my thoughts on the whole video game thing on numerous threads throughout the 'net. It absolutely can be a factor, but it is not the only reason. IMO, it's this the new version of the "Twinkie Defense".
My husband and I are actively trying to have a child, and I worry a lot sometimes. I can't stand the way children are growing up lately. I worry that my "old school" upbringing will land me in jail one day. Kids get away with so much these days and it's so hard to put them in line when a simple swat on the butt can be looked upon as child abuse. I'm sure many of us were close personal friends with the paddle or the belt when we were kids. I'm pretty sure I still grew up "normal".
I'm not even saying physical discipline is the answer, but kids today don't respect others. My niece for example...she doesn't listen to a damn thing her mom says. But you can be sure she'll listen to me or my mom. Her mom (my sister) is soft, and therefore she has no respect for her.
"I was 12 going on 13 the first time I saw a dead human being" --Stand by Me
Renowned Death Hag
I'm in my early 30's and I agree kids are babied too much. I work in a profession where I see it every day. Everyone has to be a winner, there can be no losers. Ice cream and trophies for everyone after the game...
I am pretty aware that as we get older we scoff at the younger generation but in this case I think there is truth in the fact as boomers we generally did a terrible job of raising kids. I don't know why because the generation that gave birth to us has been touted as the "Greatest Generation". The kids today learned from a generation who were indulged and catered to.
I know is that many studies have shown that a lot parents have given up responsibility in raising their kids. Every one of us know a parent who wants to be their kids' "best friend". They want to dress like their kids. They want to talk like their kids. Share the same culture as their kids. Kids have their own best friends. Discipline? Uh, what's that?
On the other hand there are the parents who spend about a half hour a week interacting with their children and feel all warm and fuzzy for it.
Earlier I misstated my thoughts on video games etc...the first to come to mind. They are a contributing factor but not the prime factor.
Crimsonams, you are correct.
Senior Death Hag
Miho I had to agree a bit with this. My daughter was in soccer this past spring and everyone got a medal. She wasn't really into soccer (her passion is dancing) and her response was "meh...I tried it...went through with it...and why did a get a medal?" However, I was teased as a kid...sometime it got to be brutal, and my homelife was a mess ontop of that! I worry about my kid when she is a teenager. I didn't have FB or other social media where "anonymous" people can post hurtful things. As a mom I try to sheild my kid...and she is a very happy child. No problems with friends, although, when I ask her if she played with so and so at school...I think she pushes my buttons and tells me that so and so didn't want to play with her. She did have one incident where she took offence when her lockermate said that she was small, which she is for a first grader.
Last edited by girl incognito; 09-27-2012 at 09:01 PM.
It's hard to ride at night...on your bicycle with no lights to guide...just take a chance and ride. Olson and Louris
Senior Death Hag
Where did the boy get the gun? The person who owns the gun has responsibility in this death.
I wonder though, what the extent of his bullying was. There is a difference between being picked on and the occasional school yard fight and some of the bullying that the kids that take their own life go through. I mean constant torture at school, social networks, calling on the phone, etc. I had a friend that this happened to and it was CONSTANT, he wanted to kill himself but, we (the few friends that he had) banded together and stopped him. Who's to say that this kid had ANY friends? I can't sit and judge him for killing himself due to bullying because sometimes there is "bullying" (picking on you, etc) and there is BULLYING. I don't buy that the school did not know what was going on. They said the same about the ones that were pretty much tortured in my high school and that was bullcrap, they knew exactly what was going on; they wanted to avoid as much of a scandal a possible.
I just ask that you all keep that in mind before you say that these kids need to "toughen up".
I thought this too: why does a 13 year old have access to presumably a handgun? I'm not blaming the gun or even it's owner but it does come back to parenting.
Renowned Death Hag
I can't say that this kid killed himself solely due to bullying. I would think he was the only person that could answer that. I'm sure bullying was a part of it but other things likely had some affect. Its a tragic situation either way. I do agree that kids today are for most part over pampered. Not just by parents but societies structure also. Even when parents try to teach their kids everyone else intervenes to limit the parents ability. Its a touchy and complicated situation. We need protection for the defenseless but where do we set the limits? Also I believe that media can have a major influence on kids. Unlimited access and exposure to violent images can and does impact the value a person puts on humanity and life in general. Children think magical thoughts so it just makes sense that a childs view of things can be manipulated and contorted.
I am the king of all things stupid!
We lost one here last week. Hanging in her closet.
It's important to remember that sometime kids don't talk about this at home, or may talk about it in the beginning and then go quiet about it. And suffer silently.
No matter whether it's video games, or the ever-present blaming of parents or whatever, the bottom line is still clear. These kids are dead, and there are more of them all the time.
Renowned Death Hag
I can only speak from personal experience, but school was hell for me. Everyday I was picked on and it grew into physical assault and sexual assault. I didn't kill myself because I knew that it wouldn't last forever. And guess what? Those douchebags who picked on me are mostly in jail or addicted to drugs. So karma does come around.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Renowned Death Hag
This story makes me so sad.
When I was in 6th grade, there was a pair of girls who tormented me every day. They ostracized me and even got the teachers to believe that I was starting crap with them. Fast forward 27 years. One of the bully's sons is in the same class as my son. Her son is picked on because of his weight. My son is one of the popular kids. My kid is nice to her kid. The other bully has had a hard life. Karma. I just wish I could tell these kids that even though it is hard, it will not last forever, and things have a way of turning around, if they will just be patient.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Senior Death Hag
You bring up a very good point Mulvaness. There is a big difference when it comes to bullying. It's very hard to draw the line between having a thick skin and realizing that someone is blatently targeting you. Kids tried like hell to bully me both in grade school and early on in high school. I went to a catholic grade school and I loved horror movies and true crime. The boys thought I was a trip and treated me like "one of the guys" and the popular girls always tried to give me shit and call me names. In high school, it was the same with the guys, but the girls had moved on to calling me a slut because I had more guy friends than girl friends. I talked to my parents about it when it started to bother me. I don't remember the conversation now, but whatever they told me it helped me hold my head up and let the stuff roll off me.
My dad is old school, and his mantra was definitely "toughen up". Mom reminded me that everything can change when you grow up and the people who are the bullies when their younger usually turn into deadbeats when they get older. I watch my niece and nephew now and see how when they have problems they never go to their mom when they have problems. I loved the fact that even when it was at times awkward, I could go and talk to my mom about stuff. I'm 37 now, and I still ask for her advice on a regular basis.
I also agree that the school's are just as much to blame as the parents. Back in the day when they had the job of being the parents when the parents weren't around (mainly with corporal punishment) there was bullying, but very few cases of BULLYING (at least at my school). If they're truly worried about a scandal, then they need to stop this kind of shit before it goes too far.
"I was 12 going on 13 the first time I saw a dead human being" --Stand by Me
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Older generation here. I grew up a Navy brat. Moved a lot. I was was kind off big but gentle natured. I found that when the resident big bully started making his move on me that a good hard kick in the balls usually changed his mind. I mean hard enough his Grandpa felt it.
Stay in Drugs. Eat your School. Don't do Vegetables.
My husband brought up an excellent point; sometimes 'toughening up or ignoring it' escalates the situation, as well.
Miho~ I am very happy that you made it through that experience. Some of these kids don't see past that, they don't see it as it is going to get better. They see that NOTHING is going to get better, especially if they have adults in their life telling them to tough it out.
I went through bullying (I guess that you would call it that), as well. I had a guy that I had a crush on tell me all kinds of lies to get me to meet him and you can guess what happened. I kept it to myself for a year, trying to block out and ignore the condescending looks,etc until the bastard started leaving notes in my locker. Btw.. This happened the summer before my 7th grade year. Come to find out, he did it frequently and then made life hell for anyone who chose to stand up for themselves. Well, guess what? After od'ing on Tylenol (think of the age there) and finally not being able to take anymore shit from the jocks, I told my mom & dad and thank goodness they went to the school. Yes, I got a lot of shit from other kids but, a lot of the "jocks/preps/whatever you call them" had respect for me and for dealing with what I did and they realized what an ass he was. It was a damned shame they didn't keep that mentality once high school hit because I can name at least 3 different kids that were tormented daily for 4 years because they were different. They made it through school but, it screwed them up for a very, very long time. The sad thing was, the adults turned their heads. They were football players, wrestlers, etc. that was the important thing to them.
Like I said, sometimes you can toughen it out and you are better for it, other times some kids just don't see a way out.
Senior Death Hag
It's too late for that boy and all the other kids who killed themselves to toughen up! The world is not perfect, but everyone needs to work to stop bullying.
Renowned Death Hag
I was actually the anti-bully, when I was in school. People who were bullied pretty much stood behind me, because I've always pretty much had a strong constitution for assholes. They simply didn't get too far with me, because I shrugged off their bs.
I was bullied, twice. Once, for a year or so by this wench that SWORE I was sleeping with her man. Uh, no, honey, I'm not a ho like you. She would even scream "bitch!" at me whenever I would drive down the road, even if my grandmother was with me. Now, she's a born-again Christian, you know, kinda like people on death row are before their electrocuted? *insert eyeroll* She almost died a couple of months ago, so I'm nice to her on Facebook land. I still haven't forgotten how she treated me, though. Now, my cousin is dating the man that she was sleeping with way back then, and who I used to like. I can't WAIT to see him and ask him if he told that ho back in the day that I slept with his sorry ass... As the friggin' world turns!
Also, I was really self-conscious about my big boobs. Back when I was in the 9th grade, it wasn't cool to be built like Kim Kartrashian, but I was. I would wear these HUGE shirts, and this guy started telling everyone I was pregnant. It only lasted a couple of days, because I was pretty much friends with everyone, and it was extinguished, quickly.
I feel sorry for people being bullied, but killing yourself isn't going to change things. I blame the parents and the schools. At this child's age, SURELY SOMEONE knew what was going on, and they just chose not to act. Sad.
Last edited by Jenivere2011; 09-29-2012 at 01:04 AM.
Sometimes the school district makes it hard (not all towns) to do anything. I almost pulled my oldest out of school because he was being bullied. (He is autistic) this was last year, btw. He has had problems twice. The first time, I told him to stand strong and not let them get to him. He was new to the town and school and his first day of school a danged kid beat the tar out of him during recess. The kids punishment? He had to eat lunch with the principal for 2 days. smh
Then, he had a teacher (he is mainstreamed) who went out of her way to make life hell for him. There were witnesses in the class and another kid was being treated the same way, that kid had an IEP too. It took me calling another district to see how much it would cost in tuition and seeing if they would take payments before the superintendent asked me what was going on and I told him. He called our Super and THEN something was done. What was sad was she was caught by other teachers, as well. That teacher is still teaching the 5th grade, nothing was done and he had to "toughen up". However, they did not give me any shit when he was sent home from school due to a "headache, stomach ache" etc. I really wanted to pull him out and homeschool him and the super basically said he'd make it difficult for me to do it. This year he is in the JR. HIgh (6th goes there) and loves school and is excelling. Some kids would not have been able to cope with what he did and I'll tell you, I fought tooth and nail and also called the Easter Seals, and was begging for help for him.
People know what is going on but, they don't act on it (Schools).. See no Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak no Evil.. BULLSHIT!
Small town, USA.
Death Hag of Legend
The article linked only has two insignificant paragraphs mentioning bullying. One mentions a statement from the police chief in which he declares he has heard no mention of bullying and the other is an unsourced facebook response in which an unidentified user states a personal belief that the kid might have committed suicide because he was bullied.
Dickerson told NewsOK he had not heard bullying as a possibility in the shooting but said it's still early into their investigation.
'There's no documented bullying in the school records, but all the kids i've talked to who went to school with him said he was bullied and that leads me to believe treated like an outcast. His peers would know more than the school records,' one Facebook user responded to another questioning the reports of his bullying.
Funny the article states the mulatto kid dressed as Two Face for a superhero day honoring breast cancer awareness. Wierd huh? Thank goodness they didnt play up the TwoFace/bi-racial connection but deferred to the more terrifying coincidental and obvious resemblance to the Aurora Co shooter upper. Guess the media had a big red buffet with this story and dressed up their tray with a little bit of this and a little bit of that but a few heapings more of that cuz it was just so steamier and fresher. Yelping it up for the indiscriminate considerations of the ill considered discrimination of the dis-informed congregation eagerly consuming intentionally ambiguous corporate news (dis)information.
Last edited by ichabodius; 09-29-2012 at 11:13 PM.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Death Hag of Legend
Renowned Death Hag
Maybe I'm an a-hole, but I have a difficult time feeling sympathetic with those that take their lives because they're being bullied. I've been bullied, know a lot of people that were, and we dealt with it in our own way. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that bullying needs to be addressed in school. I think a lot of teachers and faculty ignore it. But some of these kids are just absolute whiners if they don't get their way and completely bring it on themselves, I've literally seen it with my own eyes. This is still a world where only the strong shall survive, and if you're not going to defend yourself or learn to cope with it, you give up.
By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next.
--William Shakespeare!
I agree! And I do tend to spoil my kids a bit, I admit that. But when I see ANY of them (especially my oldest boy) start a mean streak, and pick on someone (right now his younger brother is the target) I nip in the bud IMMEDIATELY. And did I slap him for making crude bestiality remarks to my youngest (he happens to adore animals, and loves animal planet, so my oldest accuses him of bestiality CONSTANTLY) YOU BETTER BELIEVE I did. Why? Because sweetly handing him his iPod and the yummiest cookie I could find, and telling him to "Just be nice, and treat others with a SMILE!" doesn't.work. He kept it up, his brother was so humiliated he started crying, I warned him 3 times to leave him alone, he didn't. The last remark, WHAMMO. I didn't hurt him, he didn't bleed, but it SURE got his attention that I will NEVER tolerate my children picking on anyone. I do not believe in these new parenting, pansy, candy assed punishments. Parents afraid of their CHILDREN? Fuuuuck that!
Senior Death Hag
You are my new hero harlequin!I love any parent who will actually discipline their kids. It is so hard for me to be around my brother-in-law and his wife. Their oldest terrorizes his little brother, and their go-to punishment is the old 1,2,3 and then "time out". What is that?!? Don't get me wrong, if you've done that to your child and it worked, kudos to you. But I have never seen it actually work!
"I was 12 going on 13 the first time I saw a dead human being" --Stand by Me
Renowned Death Hag
I have two sons, and though one is completely grown now, we still have a very close relationship. When they were both growing up, I don't think either of them EVER considered suicide as a means to resolve an issue. And if they were cuttin up, all I had to do is give them "the look". They were your usual rambunctious boys, but I don't ever remember them being whiney. Maybe I just got lucky.
I also have a friend who is a good parent of 3, but has the whiniest little boy I've ever seen, just constantly needing attention. My friend is at his wit's end, they've punished the boy and are seriously considering some sort of counseling. So, can't always blame the parent, sometimes you just get what you get.
By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next.
--William Shakespeare!
Renowned Death Hag
Another thought that I have is maybe undiagnosed mental illness. I can speak from personal experience that after my dad died it triggered my Bi Polar. Problem was no one would diagnose me with it because I was 13. So for the next 15 years I lived through life which was a living hell having no idea why.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
i agree
Harle I agree with you. There is abuse and there is whipping your kids asses. It's not abuse it's being a parent. Just ask Pks about the whippings I gave her and such. She turned out just fine. I am her mom first and her friend second.
Not a damned thing wrong with giving your kids a good ol' ass bustin to let them KNOW they are NOT in charge! More than anything though lately, I want to slap these pussified parents, who let their precious offspring rule the earth. Wanna know what happens when you do? Read this very topic. Jesus, bullying has gotten SO MUCH worse since I was a kid (cough*cough* 20+ years ago) We might have had to worry about getting a punch to the jaw, but USUALLY it was a duel fight between 2 kids) we got teased for being overweight, or wearing glasses, but we MOVED ON and it eventually went away. NOW? My kids are going through fucking metal detectors, and worrying about getting their heads blown off by a pissed off "I can't take it anymore" teenager! It's getting fucking ridiculous, and it's narrowed down to ONE THING: No one disciplines their kids with a good HARD lesson anymore.
Senior Death Hag
I am very familiar with "that look" 'bawb! In my family if we were out in public and we got the look from one of our parents, we knew damn well we were gonna get it when we got home!
"I was 12 going on 13 the first time I saw a dead human being" --Stand by Me
Renowned Death Hag
I'm sure the "look" was passed down to me from previous generations...lol I rarely ever had to administer an ass-whuppin, they can probably count one on hand with fingers left over, but I'm not against a kid gettin one.I am very familiar with "that look" 'bawb! In my family if we were out in public and we got the look from one of our parents, we knew damn well we were gonna get it when we got home!
By my troth, I care not; a man can die but once; we owe God a death.... He that dies this year is quit for the next.
--William Shakespeare!
My BIL was on this case.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote