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Thread: Trainer dies at Seaworld

  1. #101
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    What will happen to Tilikum? Will he be put down?
    [SIGPIC]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/Zoe_Zeppelin/Zepsig1.jpg[/SIGPIC]

  2. #102
    Giada Guest
    She was in the water, unfortunately she has partial culpability. Sea World, however, sets policy, lose/lose for both.

    I've been diving with sea lions in open water, and they are playful and curious, not feeling threatened in their territory. I've never heard of any incidents.

    I've never seen whale's approach the boats in an agressive way, or move away from the pod. Certainly gives credence to the thoughts, they simply belong in their own environment.

  3. #103
    Nelliebean Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by OMyStarz View Post
    I think this is a still from the video...

    So she WAS in the water. So much for eye witness accounts. (ask any police officer)

  4. #104
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilikum_(whale)#Tilikum

    I heard last night that this whale has killed before. There have been 3 separate incidents dating back to 1991. Obviously he doesn't belong in captivity. No animals do. People are insane if they think they can get into the psyche of an animal.
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  5. #105
    PurrPurr Guest
    Shamu's Twitter is suspended in wake of the attack:

    http://www.geekosystem.com/shamu-twi...ontent=Twitter

  6. #106
    RaRaRamona Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post
    wow....

    I can't see! What is it??

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebean View Post
    So she WAS in the water. So much for eye witness accounts. (ask any police officer)
    They may be from another time. In the video her hiar is dry & fluffy.

    Oh noooes!!


    I am confused. Some witnesses say he grabbed her ponytail & dragged her under. Some say he grabbed her by the waist & tossed her side to side.

  7. #107
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    [quote=RaRaRamona;1010528]I can't see! What is it??
    quote]
    Its the giant blobfish the trainer was dating being held back after arriving at the crimscene:
    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

  8. #108
    RaRaRamona Guest
    boooooooooooooooo

    Not up to your regular standards, Ich.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    boooooooooooooooo

    Not up to your regular standards, Ich.
    I know.
    WTF is happening?
    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

  10. #110
    RaRaRamona Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ichabodius View Post
    I know.
    WTF is happening?
    I don't know! Make it stop!

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    I don't know! Make it stop!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4CjA...=youtube_gdata
    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

  12. #112
    RaRaRamona Guest
    That makey my head hurt. Pound, actually.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    That makey my head hurt. Pound, actually.
    Its the throbbing rhythm of the dancefloor that your heart beats to.
    You feel your heartbeat in your head.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI5kolBpAk
    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

  14. #114
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    I am trying really hard to care about this story....but failing miserably. Food chain, Darwins Law, etc. at work. Nothing to see here so I am moving along.

  15. #115
    RaRaRamona Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ichabodius View Post
    Its the throbbing rhythm of the dancefloor that your heart beats to.
    You feel your heartbeat in your head.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI5kolBpAk
    A classic. SRV played on that album. Not sure if it was on that song. I don't think so.

  16. #116
    RaRaRamona Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ichabodius View Post
    Its the throbbing rhythm of the dancefloor that your heart beats to.
    You feel your heartbeat in your head.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULI5kolBpAk
    Potty all the time

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5LX16zia2k

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaRaRamona View Post
    A classic. SRV played on that album. Not sure if it was on that song. I don't think so.
    Are you mistaking Don Johnson for David Bowie?
    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

  18. #118
    RaRaRamona Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ichabodius View Post
    Are you mistaking Don Johnson for David Bowie?
    No. You might be though.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebean View Post
    So she WAS in the water. So much for eye witness accounts. (ask any police officer)
    I know this comment a slam to my earlier post about the differences in the witness accounts. My point was that all first-hand accounts by spectators and staff implied she was violently pulled in the water by the whale. Then the police made a statement that she was in the water and maybe by her choice. These are two totally different situations, neither of which makes any difference to the outcome of this horrible tragedy. I was just curious at that point how the stories were so different. Obviously we will know more of what happened as more of the story comes out in bits and pieces. But I like your answer so much better.

  20. #120
    Giada Guest
    Reports are still conflicted on where she was. Sea World states no trainers are allowed in the water, except a scheduled times.

    They plan to keep the whale in captivity for their breeding program.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...eaworld-death/

  21. #121
    Nelliebean Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by gapeach View Post
    I know this comment a slam to my earlier post about the differences in the witness accounts.
    gapeach~ No slam intended! Ask any group of witnesses what they saw and you'll get 10 different answers. That's why I said ask any police officer.

  22. #122
    Nelliebean Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Giada View Post
    They plan to keep the whale in captivity for their breeding program.
    Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

    By all means, let's pass on his unpredictable disposition.

  23. #123
    Giada Guest
    I'm there with you ... disgusted, they feel they can justify it. The claim is the whale couldn't survive without being in captivity.

    And to add insult, listening to zoo keeper's defend Sea World's action.

    I'll hope fo a group of activist and local residents to effect change.

    I keep saying ... there are options, whale watching from a boat is great fun. We also have tide pools with low water levels children can explore.

  24. #124
    RaRaRamona Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebean View Post
    Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

    By all means, let's pass on his unpredictable disposition.
    Ew I know!

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by okidoll View Post
    Apparently this isn't the first time the old boy has killed a human. I don't blame him for killing the naked guy that was in his tank. God knows what that douche was trying to do?
    They don't call it a blow hole for nothing

    Seriously though, he killed 2 people already, LET HIM GO!! O and heres another suggestion STAY OUT OF THE FUCKIN TANK dumb ass

  26. 02-26-2010, 10:17 AM

  27. #126
    stacebabe Guest
    what kind of action should've been taken? The animal was acting in a way it should - wild. Wild animals, no matter how much we try and make ourselves believe otherwise, cannot be fully domesticated. There is always going to be that chance that they either snap, or "play" differently than what the humans are used to, which could result in the human's death. I don't think the whale should be punished - hell, he's punished enough having to do party tricks at SeaWorld for his entire life.

  28. #127
    Giada Guest
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth...00/8536184.stm

    Only one whale, Keiko, is given as the reason for not releasing whales into captivity.

    It does seem sensible that any animal/mammal would replicate known behaviors. Keiko was unable to bond with a pod or hunt, attempted to follow the boat and trainer's back toward land.

    Attacks by Orca's on human's are noted. Similar to shark attacks they confuse a diver/snorkeler in a black wetsuit as a seal.

    Tillikum grabbing Dawn by ponytail and pulling her underwater was caught on survelllance tape, which has been given to the authorites, (per Sea World). Sea World reopens tomorrow with the whales remaining an active part of the shows.
    Last edited by Giada; 02-26-2010 at 12:15 PM.

  29. #128
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    We need to make these shows and circuses, etc. not driven on supply and demand. As long as people are going to pay money to see these poor animals doing tricks, this kind of thing will continue to happen. And Seaworld seeing the $$ wants to use this poor animal to breed? To intentionally continue this cycle? I hope in my lifetime (yeah, won't happen) that parents take children to see "rescued" animals that when at all possible will be returned to their natural habitat. Not freak shows like these. And yes, when I was little, I went to Seaworld, too. But I am glad my son is an animal lover like me- he thinks them being penned-up is wrong. I wish our kids were taught more about "letting them go" instead of "keeping them captured." And if "if's and but's were like candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas!'

  30. #129
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    Per cnn.com, Telly is going to continue performing.
    Everyone must die but not everyone has lived


  31. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by gapeach View Post
    As long as people are going to pay money to see these poor animals doing tricks, this kind of thing will continue to happen.
    I don't patronize SeaWorld, on principle, but I'll definitely buy a ticket if they make "captured killer whale kills trainer" a daily performance.

  32. #131
    mel306 Guest
    In regards to whether she was in or out of the water.

    If you noticed in the videos and statements, the people were at an event that was ending. My bet is most saw her outside the pool, then the attack, maybe never realizing she had just gotten into the water

    In the extended video, they are all packing up and looking all over the place. Most didn't really see all that happened but that never stops people from talking as if they did.

  33. #132
    Giada Guest
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...eaworld-death/

    Not endangered, 100,000 Orcas worldwide.

    When an Orca becomes available for sale, cost can be as high as 10M.

  34. #133
    stacebabe Guest
    I guess this happened after the dinner show...I did the "Dine with Shamu" too - free beer! You're pretty close to them, too. That could NOT have been pretty to see as your eating your all-you-can-eat buffet. I have a picture somewhere of a whale maybe a foot from me. They slide up on these little side pool things.

  35. #134
    Ted Challinor Guest
    Zoos, circuses, seaworld, the whole damn thing will disappear but sadly not in my - or your - lifetime. The thing I truly can't stand is this pretence that it is somehow environmental and animal-friendly to keep wild animals as entertainment, and that we are saving them to put them back in the wild. Sadly, in most cases, this just doesnt happen...still, we don't have the embarashement of a species such as a tiger dying out, although we're plundering its habitat with our expansion so it'll only have the zoo enclosures to live in. This pretence that we love rare animals while we're still in this mindset is so wrong

  36. #135
    stacebabe Guest
    I have to say, at Sea World, they appeared to be very much beloved by their trainers. Very anti-traveling circus trainers. However, if Sea World didn't exist, I would be just as happy to watch the Orca's in the Arctic on the Discovery channel. I can't say there wasn't something amazing about seeing them though - they are majestic. But - so are tigers and whatever else, but they also kill people. They aren't "meant" to be in captivity. I am happy to see places like this if they're for rescued animals that cannot survive in the wild, but to snatch perfectly healthy ones from the wild, whether you're Sea World or the local zoo, well that's not fair.

  37. #136
    RaRaRamona Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Challinor View Post
    Zoos, circuses, seaworld, the whole damn thing will disappear but sadly not in my - or your - lifetime. The thing I truly can't stand is this pretence that it is somehow environmental and animal-friendly to keep wild animals as entertainment, and that we are saving them to put them back in the wild. Sadly, in most cases, this just doesnt happen...still, we don't have the embarashement of a species such as a tiger dying out, although we're plundering its habitat with our expansion so it'll only have the zoo enclosures to live in. This pretence that we love rare animals while we're still in this mindset is so wrong
    I haven't seen any trained zoo animals. If not for zoos, the vast majority of people would never see those animals. We have a membership at our zoo & we go a lot. The other day a man in front of us was telling his grandson about one of the animals. They walked on. Then he came & said to me, "I have been teaching about this animal in college biology for 12 years & this is the first time I have ever seen one." He was very excited. I thought that was the coolest thing. The more I thought about it the greater I thought it was. We take it for granted that we have them there, & we see them several times a year. Amazing.

  38. #137
    Giada Guest
    I live not to far from the San Diego Wild Animal Park. I've been several times. The animals are in wide open spaces and integrated with compatible species. I've seen Zebra's, Gazelle's, Giraffe's running, interacting.

    Orca's are not endangered, have limited space to move. I'd like to see them moved to a sanctuary, but know it's highly unlikely.

  39. #138
    Seagorath Guest
    I touched these damn killer whales all the time at the Miami Sea Aquarium...and my hair went down to my ass then and it was flopping in the wind.

  40. #139
    SmokeyNite Guest
    First, you can't compare a whale to a dog. Dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years, whales haven't.

    Second, according to an interview last night, apparently Tilly was brought in from the wild when he was two years old, though I don't know the circumstances around it.

    Third, we don't know what was going on with the whale's mind. Did he see her ponytail and think it looked like a prop they might have used in the past, or maybe even a fish? Who knows??

    I stayed with a family in
    Australia where that owned an animal park, and their main thing was crocs. They had an old guy who knew he was supposed to get a chicken and he saw the girl standing there with the chicken. She slipped, he lunged up to get the chicken and clamped onto her instead. Instinct kicked in and he dragged her down. Luckily with her uncle's jumping on the croc's back and poking its eyes, they were able to free her.

    And fourth, it's a KILLER WHALE!!! Right in the name!

    I am a huge animal person, and I don't blame the whale at all in this. I don't think he should be put down. I DO wish that sea world would figure out a way to do a limited release of him, maybe into like a bay or something, someplace big that he could still survive in. I don't know.

    I do know that places like Sea World and Animal Kingdom at Disney, plus many other zoos and aquariums world wide have taken in and saved thousands of hurt, injured, or orphaned animals. And its also because of places like these that endangered species have been able to make a come back. I hate to see any animal in captivity, but when a place can take in an animal that couldn't survive in the wild and give it a big, safe place to live, and we are able to learn from its behaviors, I'm good with it.

    Having been to Sea World recently, I just felt like, though the tanks seem huge to us, they aren't nearly large enough for these animals to live in them happily. Yes, they get all the food they want, but these are whales, very smart creatures who need a lot of mental stimulation. Anyone would go crazy swimming around a small tank all day.

    "Look, there's the same rock I passed 3 minutes ago!!"

    Besides, maybe the lady said something about the whale's mother......

  41. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by duchessmary View Post
    Per cnn.com, Telly is going to continue performing.
    Absolutely! Who is going to kill the cash cow? It is open for business as usual tomorrow. I expect a bumper crowd.
    I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!
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  42. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilmpenny View Post
    Absolutely! Who is going to kill the cash cow? It is open for business as usual tomorrow. I expect a bumper crowd.
    Don'tcha just?

    I think they should let it go. Let 'em all go.

    I went to SeaWorld on some school trip many years ago...

    Me: We're gonna travel how many miles to see some fake, canned experience where they put various animals through pointless hoops for us? Yeah, great.

    Classmates: Blasphemer!

    Me: Whatever.

    *Slips out and wanders around San Diego while the rest of her class is watching the show. Slips back in a couple of hours later to rejoin the rest of the class. Only my mother figured it out when I came back home with no Seaworld trinkets. She knows me well, lol.
    Last edited by SomeChick; 02-27-2010 at 02:38 AM. Reason: grammarz
    .

  43. #142
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    Any actual video yet?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  44. 02-27-2010, 07:22 AM

  45. #143
    ShellBell Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    what kind of action should've been taken? The animal was acting in a way it should - wild. Wild animals, no matter how much we try and make ourselves believe otherwise, cannot be fully domesticated. There is always going to be that chance that they either snap, or "play" differently than what the humans are used to, which could result in the human's death. I don't think the whale should be punished - hell, he's punished enough having to do party tricks at SeaWorld for his entire life.
    Well said! I totally agree.

  46. #144
    choochie Guest
    He doesn't look like a happy camper in this video. He just doesn't seem very engaged.

  47. #145
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    I read somewhere that the tourist who took the 'moments before death' video shut the camera off a mere seconds before the trainer was grabbed. Double whammy of a shame to us. Horrible she died, heartbreaking to us there is no footage. I am not sure that is her body under the tent though. I haven't seen or read anything that says that. I'd like to think it, but I'm not sure.

  48. 02-27-2010, 04:41 PM

  49. #146
    zombiexgirl Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by duchessmary View Post
    Per cnn.com, Telly is going to continue performing.
    That is INSANE! I can't believe there are trainers that would actually consider working with this animal given its history. When will people learn? Also, why breed an ill tempered whale? Wouldn't any offspring be violent?

    Ok, here's what I was going to say in the first place- I watched that video and it was seriously sad. Not just knowing chick was about to die, but seeing that whale performing tricks. I've never been to a Sea World or anything more than a zoo or aquarium, heck, this is the first time I've ever seen a whale perform on video... I just can't understand why people want to see these animals do this. They are smart, they can learn tricks, fine, we know that now, so could we just stop doing this for our amusement? I wouldn't want to be taken out of my house, put somewhere else and made to perform for snacks. It wouldn't matter how "nice" the place was or how "loved" I was. I'd be pissed. I'm usually not a big animal rights person, but watching that whale was not entertaining, and it didn't look like it was enjoying itself. I'm not really going to go as far as to say the trainer deserved it or anything like that. As long as there is a public demand for this "entertainment" there will be a need for trainers. People should stop patronizing these sorts of establishments.

    Humans do really neat tricks too, they have free will, and work some rad freak shows. Seeing a man hammer a giant nail in his nose- pretty dang rad. Sure, the sideshows may not always be appropriate for granny and lil Johnny, but neither is seeing a person ripped apart. I'm really surprised I'm so worked up over this... Does it make me a hypocrite that I still wanna see the video I know this is a long post, (sorry) but another question- why do the dorsal fins on whales always fall down in captivity or do they do that in the wild as well?

  50. #147
    1karenhb Guest
    I too am against these animals in captivity but after so many years they cannot be released into the wild. Look what happened with Keiko. After months of rehabilitating him to be released when he was he ended up in Norway, Sweden or Denmark in the winter and wanted to be around people. He soon died of pneumonia. I got to see Keiko when he was in the aquarium in Oregon. I have never seen such a huge tank. He was able to swim around easily and no performing.

  51. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombiexgirl View Post
    know this is a long post, (sorry) but another question- why do the dorsal fins on whales always fall down in captivity or do they do that in the wild as well?

    They are not 100% sure. They think it could have to do with the lack of water depth in the tanks. Orca's cartilage in their dorsal fins are soft until their teenage years. They think that swimming in deep water exerts pressure so the fun stands upright and the cartilage hardens. When they don't have that depth then it won't set right.

    The other thought is that in the wild orcas swim straight. In captivity they are consistently swimming in circles thus the dorsal fin gets used to bending a certain way.

    Another thought is environmental change that can effect the orca and thus effect it's dorsal fin. There have been cases where orcas have been caught in oil spills, gotten sick, and their fin flops.
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  52. #149
    DisneyStacy Guest
    I thought I read on CNN that the attack was captured on home video. Whether or not that person is the type to upload and share with The Internets, it yet to be seen.

  53. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyStacy View Post
    I thought I read on CNN that the attack was captured on home video. Whether or not that person is the type to upload and share with The Internets, it yet to be seen.

    It is being held by authorities right now, but SeaWorld has confirmed they captured it on surveillance video. At least one visitor has also said they got in on tape as well.
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